The Official Vwvortex Firearm Picture Post

[NoDubJustYet]

EXCELLENT choice. Once you shoot one you really understand why thousands of police, military, and private security units use them in at least 30 different countries. I've been thinking of picking up another Beretta soon.

obin

BLECH

Cheap contracts and the unwillingness to change?

My experiences with the M9 and INS .40 make me want to puke everytime this POS is mentioned.

A co-worker owns a civvy version and says it's great... I don't believe him.*

*Actually, maybe the Italian made model is better. The reliability of the US government spec models is awful.

[Motorwerks]

just order a bushmaster ar 15 i like yours a lot

I hope yours has the sights going the right direction.

[Obin Robinson]

*Actually, maybe the Italian made model is better. The reliability of the US government spec models is awful.

The problems with the M9 stem from the magazines. Just like every other gun out there if you use a crappy magazine they will malfunction. Use original Beretta mags, MDS mags, or Airtronic mags and you won't have a problem. The old CheckMates were terrible for the same reason the old M16s were terrible: someone in US Govt thought they knew more about guns than the engineers who built them or the people who used them.

obin

[NoDubJustYet]

The problems with the M9 stem from the magazines. Just like every other gun out there if you use a crappy magazine they will malfunction. Use original Beretta mags, MDS mags, or Airtronic mags and you won't have a problem. The old CheckMates were terrible for the same reason the old M16s were terrible: someone in US Govt thought they knew more about guns than the engineers who built them or the people who used them.

obin

Ehh... How about the former INS .40cals? Beretta mags wouldn't stop those things from falling apart. I've heard so many stories... and seen some funny things. Thank God I was never issued one - I'd rather have a G17, and that's not saying much.

[Obin Robinson]

Ehh... How about the former INS .40cals? Beretta mags wouldn't stop those things from falling apart. I've heard so many stories... and seen some funny things. Thank God I was never issued one - I'd rather have a G17, and that's not saying much.

I'm talking about the M9s/Model 92s. I never saw the draw for the 96. If you want to shoot .40 from a Beretta that's what the PX4 is for.

obin

[NoDubJustYet]

I'm talking about the M9s/Model 92s. I never saw the draw for the 96. If you want to shoot .40 from a Beretta that's what the PX4 is for.

obin

Well, I was referring to experience with the M9 as well as the INS issued 96... Same family as far as I'm concerned. It's all garbage.*

The PX4 is a new weapon; INS adopted the 96 in mid-1990s IIRC. They only had it a short time (because it's a POS) and switched the H&K USP Compact .40 not too long after.

*I'd like to believe a personally owned firearm manufactured in Italy is better than a US-built government model.

[Elbows]

I know the guys coming from the 96's were slow to adopt the P2000 --- the only thing I saw from the 96's was that they were huge, and I saw two of them show up with cracked frames. They would have been maybe 8-10 years old at that time. This was discovered after quals --- why we didn't inspect guns "before" quals, I'll never know.

My dad has a nice .380 M84 and it's made like a swiss time piece. I've never had much of an affinity for the larger mil-spec models. But unlike NoDubYet, I have little personal experience with owning/running one. I think they are pretty passe now - given the size/capacity and options out there.

I do know a lot of service guys who come out of the field and buy them though.

[NoDubJustYet]

Here's an interesting blog post concerning "combat" handguns: http://kitup.military.com/2011/12/co...tml#more-12429

Sorry for derailing this...

[Obin Robinson]

Here's an interesting blog post concerning "combat" handguns: http://kitup.military.com/2011/12/co...tml#more-12429

Sorry for derailing this...

Cool article. It highlights the standard things you hear from military people which can be summed up into several points:

1) If you don't take care of a gun then it will give you problems.

2) The best handgun for the military is... well it doesn't exist now, never did, nor will it ever. You can't make everyone happy.

3) Personal preference amongst handguns carries over from civilian to military life and back.

4) The most effective combat handgun is one which someone can shoot accurately.

obin

[Tim@VMG]

If my Walthers treat me right, I may eventually consider the PPS as a "uber" concealed carry piece. The PPQ hides well, but it's not ideal under some summer clothing, etc. Let me know how it serves ya.

I've had mine for well over a year now, and put nearly 1000 rounds through it. In that time, I had one stovepipe that may have been my fault.

I love the gun. It's quite small and extremely thin, which makes it hide well. It's reliable, it shoots right where I want it to, and I love the ergonomics of it. It's got a nice low bore axis, and the recoil impulse is extremely soft and controllable. It has become my favorite pistol (and I was always a SIG guy) and has made me rethink what I want out of a "combat" pistol to some extent. It's the reason why I am looking so hard at buying a PPQ also.

The versatility that you get with the differing magazine sizes is great also. With the 6 round (flush fit) magazine in it, it disappears really well, but you have the option of carrying 7 or 8 round mags also, or as backup mags.

My particular gun feels pretty stiff right now - it definitely needs some break-in. But I've been fondling and dry-firing it all evening. It's very pointable and I'm already getting the hang of the mag release.

They do loosen up appreciably after the first few hundred rounds or so. I like the mag release more than I do a traditional button one in practice, because I have to shift my grip less, even with my big hands.

I need to find a decent holster still as well, but I want to run the gun for a while first anyways. Once it's good to go, the M&P will stick to HD duties.

FWIW, I have a Comp-tac Minutaur for mine, and I like it a lot. It's well suited to the thin gun.

-Tim

[Rheinland Technik]

I added two Class 3 devices to my collection today. Once ATF clears the paperwork [~6 month wait] is approved, my YHM 22 Mirw suppressor and AAC 7.62 SD suppressor will be nice additions to allow for safer and enjoyable days of sending lead down range. I was even able to run a couple rounds through my Remington 700 suppressed and I must say that the 220 grain was ultra quite.

[GTI_2.0T]

Got to the range this evening with the PPS. Put about 250 rounds through it - a mix of 115gr Federal Champion and Remington UMC and 147gr Winchester and Speer HP's. All ran flawlessly, not a single hiccup. The gun noticeably smoothed out after around 100 rounds or so - the trigger had been a slight bit crunchy in dry firing, but now it's a nice steady pull. A little bit heavier than my M&P, but still very useable - doesn't seem to affect (my) accuracy at all.

On that note, right off the bat I shoot this gun much better than my M&P. Which either says a lot about the PPS, or about my skills with the M&P. Groups were very good right from the get go (IMO). Accuracy is fantastic, especially considering the gun's size/form factor. Recoil is very manageable - stout, but nothing outrageous, even with the 147gr. Follow up shots were simple. I think I prefer the center hold sight picture over the six o'clock hold with the M&P.

Only sticky point I noticed - the magazines springs are very, very stout. Loading to capacity is a little hard on the thumb. The top round sits oddly in relation to the rounds below too. The follower sits relatively square to the horizontal, but the top round sits canted up against the feed lips - it only touches the round below at the rim. Both the seven and eight round mags I have do it and there were no feed problems - just different I guess.

Suffice it to say, I'm a big fan so far. With the large backstrap, it just fits perfectly in my hand. It aims very naturally for me - no hunting for the front sight at all. I grabbed a cheap Blackhawk IWB holster to get a feel for carrying it and to hold me over until I get something "permanent", and even with that it just disappears at my side (even sitting in the bolstered seats in my GTI).

A bit more range time and it will be ready for carry duty I believe.

[Power5]

I think I prefer the center hold sight picture over the six o'clock hold with the M&P.

What does this mean? I am not familiar with this terminology. I am just a couple steps above beginner with handguns though.

[Elbows]

http://pistol-training.com/archives/1361

There are different "holds" for handguns.


The Six O'Clock hold is also called pie on a stick/head on a stick etc. I prefer the center one - where the rounds shoot impact at the top of the front sight post. With "most" defensive shooting this isn't really a big deal. Besides, you rarely shoot at distances at which your handgun's sights are set. However it will explain why some people shoot certain ways with certain guns.

[Power5]

Looking at those images I assume all aim points are the center of the target. I do not understand the "pie on a stick" hold at all. Seems unusual to aim no where near your shot point. At 25yrds that would be completely different than 3yrds. Not that there is much aiming required at 3-5yrds. I had always thought that the right image is how all guns were sighted from the factory. Interesting that they are not. That is how I have always aimed any gun I have shot. Maybe that is why I do not hit the center very often. Then again mine dont usually miss down the centerline. Do any manufacturers set their sights up to the right of aim point?

What range are handgun sights usually set for from the factory?

[foxtrot762]

http://pistol-training.com/archives/1361

There are different "holds" for handguns.

You forgot to include the "gangsta" hold

[Elbows]

Correction...

[foxtrot762]

touche...

[crazysccrmd]

Anyone here have experience with the SSAR15 slidefire/bump fire stock? From youtube videos it looks like a decent way to have some near class 3 fun without the expense of owning a class 3 firearm.

[dj age one]

Correction...

gangstashot.jpg

[gotta_jet]

Got a new holster from Personal Security Sytems on christmas eve.

[Motorwerks]

Got a new holster from Personal Security Sytems on christmas eve.

Nice! I like that a lot. I've been getting ready to head down the kydex route. I'm thinking I may play around with it on my own though. At the same time however I need a holster for my Christmas glock17 so I may buy one then build later.

[Elbows]

I have a Raven Concealment on the way - thinking they were one of the few to make a PPQ. Then I found my favorite company Kaluban Cloak does make one - so I ordered it, had it six days later.

Look up Kaluban Cloak on google, they do great work - reasonable price, and crank sh_t out quickly. If you have a Glock I think they even have that on there "ships in a day" list or something. A nice quality kydex piece is worth its weight in gold.

[Power5]

Nice gangsta hold Elbows. Looks like some of my targets when I was done though.

Hit the range today with my brand new 92FS and threw a few hundred rounds down to the other end. Not a single problem. Well one problem. I am not very accurate. Have a down left problem even though it does not seem like my trigger pull is wrong. Will have to try some different things next time. Seemed to be much better in the beginning though so I may have just been getting tired and lazy. I will tell you running an entire mag of 15 is much more fun than running my brother's 8 in his 1911.

[TurboWraith]

Anyone here have experience with the SSAR15 slidefire/bump fire stock? From youtube videos it looks like a decent way to have some near class 3 fun without the expense of owning a class 3 firearm.

Closest I have been is just held a rifle that had one. Did not get to shoot.

Its quite ugly, if that sort of thing matters to you, and I could not get my head where I like when shouldering it. Seemed well made though, and incredibly simple. Surprised it didn't come out 30 years ago.

[farfromugen]

Anyone here have experience with the SSAR15 slidefire/bump fire stock? From youtube videos it looks like a decent way to have some near class 3 fun without the expense of owning a class 3 firearm.

A friend of mine has one...for whatever reason he was getting light primer strikes every 7-8 rounds, traced it to his buffer, replaced it and from there said it worked flawless. One thing though, he switched to a piston upper on that rifle and it quit working with the SSAR, not sure if he ever got it dialed in properly again or not.

[foxtrot762]

Hit the range today with my brand new 92FS

I have the Taurus version of your gun. It's a blast to shoot. It's got a nice weight when the magazine is loaded with 15 and the recoil is minimal and actually quite pleasant.

I posted it before but this is my Taurus PT92

[GrkPranksta69]

I have the Taurus version of your gun. It's a blast to shoot. It's got a nice weight when the magazine is loaded with 15 and the recoil is minimal and actually quite pleasant.

I posted it before but this is my Taurus PT92

What is the background for the pic, looks a little bit like grip tape that I have

[Elbows]

Always looked like asphalt to me

[Vee-Dubber-GLI]

Got a new holster from Personal Security Sytems on christmas eve.

Nice! Looks great! I'm looking at a Fobus for my M&P so I can keep my Streamlight on it.

Nice! I like that a lot. I've been getting ready to head down the kydex route. I'm thinking I may play around with it on my own though. At the same time however I need a holster for my Christmas glock17 so I may buy one then build later.

If you're looking for a good starting point on a kydex holster, take a look at Uncle Mike's. I picked one up for my M&P for around $25 shipped and it has both paddle and belt attachment plates. Took it out and got to spend a good amount of time using it to find what I liked/disliked and from that narrowed my search for what I'm really looking for in a holster. Investment-wise, it's a fraction of the cost of bigger name setups or more specialized ones and you can always resell on forums to other shooters new to holsters/kydex as well.

Nice gangsta hold Elbows. Looks like some of my targets when I was done though.

Hit the range today with my brand new 92FS and threw a few hundred rounds down to the other end. Not a single problem. Well one problem. I am not very accurate. Have a down left problem even though it does not seem like my trigger pull is wrong. Will have to try some different things next time. Seemed to be much better in the beginning though so I may have just been getting tired and lazy. I will tell you running an entire mag of 15 is much more fun than running my brother's 8 in his 1911.

Down left (for a right-handed shooter) would be pushing/overcompensating for recoil and slapping the trigger. Only thing I can suggest is really take time and make sure you're grip is right and consistent pull on the trigger; better to take the time to reinforce the good practices than put more rounds downrange with an 'eh' grip. I know after about 80-100rds, 1) my accuracy will drop and I really do have to make sure I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing and 2) the grip will get sweaty.lol. Time to try my hand at stippling. It's probably just that you need to get used to the new gun as well. Good luck and enjoy.

[FlashRedGLS1.8T]

Taurus TCP PT738

Thought I was going to get a Ruger LCP as my new carry and ended up with the Taurus. The trigger is superior to the Ruger's.

[Elbows]

Didn't scope out the Nano?

[foxtrot762]

What is the background for the pic, looks a little bit like grip tape that I have

You know those keyboard mats that you can get at any office supply store? I had one laying around and I tore the plastic top sheet off to expose the rubber mat underneath.

[USMCFieldMP]

The Christmas present I got for myself. Inland M1 Carbine. 8-44 dated. All original. Baby is damn near mint.



Father got me a Remington 770 in .243WIN. Seems to have a few cheap feeling features, but overall seems to be a pretty damn good rifle. Appears to have a medium or heavy barrel on it, as well... should be good for many, many hundreds of yards. I might post pics later this weekend. I've been sick as a dog the last week... don't feel like doing anything right now.

[FlashRedGLS1.8T]

Didn't scope out the Nano?

I did but it's pretty thick. I prefer the slimmer profile of the LCP/TCP/238/P3AT.
Pretty much the only reason I'm using this over the Bersa is its slimmer profile.

I would have preferred a 9MM but was not pleased with any of those that were in my price range.