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    Thread: The New Audi S4/S4 Avant

    1. Administrator George@Fourtitude's Avatar
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      09-22-2008 04:57 PM #1

      Ingolstadt – Audi is introducing its new sporty top models in the midsize class – the S4 and the S4 Avant. Their engine, a three-liter V6 with direct fuel injection and mechanical turbocharging, delivers a powerful 245 kW (333 hp). It accelerates the S4 to 100 km/h (62.14 mph) in just 5.1 seconds, but on average only uses 9.7 liters of fuel per 100 km (24.25 US mpg). The quattro permanent all-wheel drive system transfers its power to the road in style, which is then converted by the sport suspension into dynamic handling. Upon request, Audi can equip the new S4 and S4 Avant with innovative technologies that further increase their lead over the competition. The seven-speed S tronic changes gears with lightning speed, and the new sport differential distributes the torque as needed between the rear wheels. The new Audi S4 will be unveiled to the public for the first time at the Paris Auto Show from October 2 to 19.
      Full Story
      And here are US market details.
      http://www.fourtitude.com/news...shtml

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      09-22-2008 06:41 PM #2
      I am interested to try the sport differential or Active Torque Vectoring, with 7-speed S-Tronic in new S4. Just a pity an Avant isn't going to be available with S4 Stateside.

    3. 09-22-2008 07:19 PM #3
      my next car

    4. 09-22-2008 08:11 PM #4
      Quote, originally posted by audiant »
      my next car

      Ditto. Except I think I'll wait about 5 years and get another used S4

    5. 09-22-2008 09:13 PM #5
      Ive been pondering wether to get the S4 vs 2.0T S-Line. Im glad they went with the 3.0T over the 8, because I would not have purchased the V8. Any idea when to expect this stateside?

    6. Member Travis Grundke's Avatar
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      09-22-2008 09:34 PM #6
      Man, the torque vectoring and 3.0 motor make this thing just about perfect. The only thing I fear is the price: I can imagine an S4 with the torque vectoring, ADS, B&O and Navigation easily touching $60k. Not that there's anything else (S5, perhaps) I would be interested in, but that's a *heluva* lot of bank!

    7. 09-22-2008 10:12 PM #7
      I hope there are other wheel options because those^ look pretty underwhelming. Other than that the car sounds and looks fantastic. Just too bad no more Avants for US.

    8. 09-22-2008 10:37 PM #8
      how does the selectable engine mapping effect california emissions? does this make it harder for aftermarket to play with? how cool is that supercharger whine gonna sound!?!?!

    9. 09-22-2008 11:25 PM #9
      Quote, originally posted by AudiVwMeister »
      how cool is that supercharger whine gonna sound!?!?!

      sick.

    10. 09-23-2008 12:19 AM #10
      ive only driven NA and turbos. and I love my 2.0t. just wondering how a supercharged engine differs from a turbo-charged in terms of driving feel. i understand how it works, just never driven one. what i love about my turbo is the boost and how it just puts ur ass in the seat when in kicks in, whats the effects of the supercharger?

    11. Member QUATTR0's Avatar
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      09-23-2008 02:16 AM #11
      No avant [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthdown.gif[/IMG]




      Modified by QUATTR0 at 11:21 PM 9/22/2008

    12. 09-23-2008 01:02 PM #12
      I only want the Avant, i dont know if i'm going to wait for the C7 A6 avant or settle for the A4 Avant

    13. 09-23-2008 06:22 PM #13
      BRING THE AVANT OVER AUDI USA!

    14. Administrator George@Fourtitude's Avatar
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      09-24-2008 08:52 AM #14
      Quote, originally posted by iwantanaudi »
      I only want the Avant, i dont know if i'm going to wait for the C7 A6 avant or settle for the A4 Avant

      As I understand it this was largely a market driven decision by Germany. S4 Avants sold in such low numbers that the model just didn't make sense. 2.0T S-line is close in appearance, but as for an S4 Avant you can blame it on the market. With like 200 some sold a year, would you bring them over if you were Audi?

    15. 09-24-2008 08:04 PM #15
      Quote, originally posted by George@Fourtitude »
      [img] Their engine, a three-liter V6 with direct fuel injection and mechanical turbocharging, delivers a powerful 245 kW (333 hp).

      You mean SUPERCHARGING right?

    16. 09-24-2008 11:56 PM #16
      So i guess Audi thinks this competes with the M3 and C63 . 335i is probably faster than this.
      Why didn't Audi go with turbos .

      from press release:
      Market
      • Key competitors are BMW M3 sedan and Mercedes-Benz AMG C63.



      Modified by marf34 at 11:57 PM 9/24/2008

    17. 09-25-2008 12:09 AM #17
      Quote, originally posted by marf34 »
      So i guess Audi thinks this competes with the M3 and C63 . 335i is probably faster than this.
      Why didn't Audi go with turbos .

      from press release:
      Market
      • Key competitors are BMW M3 sedan and Mercedes-Benz AMG C63.
      Modified by marf34 at 11:57 PM 9/24/2008

      That argument went on for pages in the car lounge. Regardless of what the press release says its positioned against the 335. Compare price and HP for each segment, they match up. And why would the 335i be faster? It has only 300hp vs 333 in the S4. The 2.0T pulls the same 0-60 time as the 328 let alone the 3.2 in the A4's
      A4 = 328
      S4 = 335
      RS4 = M3

    18. 09-25-2008 03:00 AM #18

      Quote, originally posted by marf34 »
      So i guess Audi thinks this competes with the M3 and C63 . 335i is probably faster than this.
      Why didn't Audi go with turbos .

      from press release:
      Market
      • Key competitors are BMW M3 sedan and Mercedes-Benz AMG C63.
      Modified by marf34 at 11:57 PM 9/24/2008


      what a amazing car, clearly this car competes with 335, 0-60 doesnt say much, I'm sure this car will be faster around track than 335, even in straight because Audi always underrates their 0-60 and power, I can even imagine what this thing can do with more boost, another tuner friendly s4 like the old one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...lated


      Modified by areku_x at 8:01 AM 9/25/2008

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      09-25-2008 03:41 AM #19
      It seems to me like Audi is way behind here. BMW always has higher bhp/liter than Audi and is far better in price/performance. Set aside better interior quality and overal better styling, just looking at performance, I am upset.
      My concern starts early on...
      Think about it this way, Audi has the B5 S4 with a v6t, and BMW has the E36 N/A inline-6 with pretty much the same power. BMW totally surprises everyone and releases the 333hp/262lbft N/A inline-6 in 2000. Two years later, audi releases the B6 S4 with 340hp/302lbft; pretty similar power ratings. These two cars were similarly priced in the high 40's to mid 50's, and ran neck and neck in many performance reviews.

      The RS4 follows behind with a 420hp/??lbft model in 2007 and then BMW follows Audi's footsteps and releases the new M3, but this time with 414hp/295lbft; a significant power upgrade to the previous M3, and at a price discount of almost $10k compared to the RS4.
      The current M3 performs at the level of the current RS4 yet costs $10k less; the current S4 outperforms the 335, the new 300hp/300lbft BMW with an inline-6 turbo, yet the S4 comes at a $5k premium to the 335.
      Now, we are looking at the next generation S4, expected to also be priced in the high 40's to mid 50's, slightly below the current M3, and expected to compete with the 335; a car starting in the low 40's and when fully loaded, at the base price of the S4.
      Does anyone else feel like we are getting shafted here?

      The real problem is you can't get a t-fsi engine, other than the 2.0T, for under $50k. That's were BMW has Audi beat, hands down. This should have been the new A3.2 engine, just like the 335.
      //edit
      I think Audi is making a huge mistake not including high performance diesel in their lineup. Their is no reason why this can't be a viable option for North America and the EU. I think thr future of Audi lies in the development of hyperformance diesel and hybrid technology. It's safe to say, I am not buying another Audi until I can get a V6t-diesel with regenterative braking and plug-in capability. The Euro's need to hop on the bandwagon.
      //


      Modified by der Autofahrer at 12:49 AM 9/25/2008
      Co-Founder - The Austin Grand Prix www.theaustingrandprix.com

    20. 09-25-2008 07:45 PM #20
      Quote, originally posted by areku_x »

      even in straight because Audi always underrates their 0-60 and power,

      You think BMW doesn't? The I6-TwinTurbo is an amazing engine 400whp with less than $2000 in mods. and it is underrated at 300 hp.
      S4 will probably be close to m3 in price. Audi is preparing us by saying it competes with the m3/c63.

    21. Member S4NoMore's Avatar
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      09-26-2008 07:25 PM #21
      Quote, originally posted by chickdr »
      You mean SUPERCHARGING right?

      No, he means mechanical turbocharging as stated. "Turbocharging" is a loose term for methods of forced induction, including mechanical turbo aka supercharger.

    22. 09-29-2008 04:00 AM #22

      Quote »
      Market
      • Key competitors are BMW M3 sedan and Mercedes-Benz AMG C63.

      How is this 333HP/325lb-ft S4 going to compete with a 451HP/443lb-ft Mercedes-Benz AMG C63 and a 420HP M3? Those cars are competitors to RS4. The S4 is competitor to TT BMW 335 and the A4 3.2L is competitor to N/A 328. IMO, the 2.0L Turbo is a POS!

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      09-30-2008 12:26 AM #23
      Thanks MRV6, I totally agree.
      Audi has fallen way behind and charges too much money for its relative power output.
      Co-Founder - The Austin Grand Prix www.theaustingrandprix.com

    24. 10-01-2008 09:57 AM #24
      I'm not sure BMW is cheaper, and remember that Quattro is included in the price of the S4 and not in the 335, you might care for it or not, but it is still there and it is still something that cost.
      The S4 should start at around 45k, so with some options you get 50k, the 335 gets up there very quickly.
      I agree that the S4 competes with the 335 and not the M3.
      But didn't Audi say the the S4 would be below the M3 and the RS4 above in performance a long time ago?

    25. 10-01-2008 11:45 AM #25
      Obviously I wasn't able to price out an S4 on the Audi USA site because it is not yet available. But here are some numbers for everyone's consideration. I tried to put what I think is standard in the S4 as well as what I figured most people would order. What is the base price of an S4? You may be right about the 335 not being much cheaper if at all once the two cars have the same features and equipment. someone can enlighten me if I'm wrong.
      My 335i xDrive Sedan
      3.0-liter, turbocharged inline 6-cylinder engine
      xDrive, intelligent all-wheel-drive
      See all standard features
      Base MSRP $42,000
      Titanium Silver Metallic $550
      Beige Dakota Leather $0
      Dark Burl Walnut wood trim $0
      Cold Weather Package $1,000
      Premium Package $2,650
      Sport Package $1,350
      • 18" Light alloy wheels Star-spoke (Style287) with performance tires
      $600
      Active Cruise Control $2,400
      Comfort Access system $500
      Navigation system $2,100
      HD radio $0
      iPod and USB adapter $400
      Logic7 sound system with Surround Sound and Digital Sound Processing $875
      Park Distance Control $700
      Destination & Handling: $825
      Total MSRP as Built $55,950

      Modified by squishacorn at 8:47 AM 10/1/2008

      Modified by squishacorn at 8:50 AM 10/1/2008


      Modified by squishacorn at 8:54 AM 10/1/2008

    26. Member QUATTR0's Avatar
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      10-01-2008 12:49 PM #26
      The S4 will not start at $45K, that is much lower than the 2008 S4 which started at $48,610.
      Expect similar pricing as the 2008.

    27. 10-01-2008 01:04 PM #27
      Sure. So the base price for the 2009 S4 is certainly higher. I guess the real question is whether or not the base models (335 vs S4) are equal in features. Once equalized how do the prices compare?

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      10-01-2008 01:04 PM #28
      Exactly my point, although I would venture to say the price will go up, considering the unstable U.S. dollar and the value of the Euro.
      squishacorn,
      My good friend just purchased a 335 with everything listed in you list with the exception of adaptive cruise control (totally retarted), parking and distance (adds stupid holes in bumper), cold weather (live in Texas), and navigation (come on, read a map).
      His car was $47k negotiated to $45k. That's much better than what the S4 would be for a similar configuration.
      Also, judging by new and really really stupid package system of the 2009 A4, you won't be able to get s-line packages without getting the premium package car, gennerally adding some stuff that you won't want. I miss the ultra sport package on my A4 which gave me suspension, body, and wheel upgrades without additional stuff I didn't want.



      Modified by der Autofahrer at 10:07 AM 10/1/2008
      Co-Founder - The Austin Grand Prix www.theaustingrandprix.com

    29. 10-01-2008 11:26 PM #29
      An A4 3.2 with all the options is over 54,000.00. I'd say S4 with all option would be close to 60,000. Trust me I hope I'm wrong.

    30. 10-02-2008 11:50 AM #30
      well it looks like the jury has decided then - The S4 is more expensive than the 335. And while it is unfortunate the truth is I'd still rather pay for an S4 or an S5 over the 335 sedan or coupe...

    31. Administrator George@Fourtitude's Avatar
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      10-02-2008 12:18 PM #31
      Quote, originally posted by squishacorn »
      well it looks like the jury has decided then - The S4 is more expensive than the 335. And while it is unfortunate the truth is I'd still rather pay for an S4 or an S5 over the 335 sedan or coupe...

      I'd wait for pricing to compare apples and apples.

    32. Member Travis Grundke's Avatar
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      10-02-2008 10:54 PM #32
      We've got a good 8 months, at least, before firm pricing would be available for us here in the US. I would suspect that we're not going to get something significantly higher or lower than the 335...but comparable.

      Quote, originally posted by squishacorn »
      well it looks like the jury has decided then - The S4 is more expensive than the 335. And while it is unfortunate the truth is I'd still rather pay for an S4 or an S5 over the 335 sedan or coupe...

    33. Member miraclewhips's Avatar
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      10-04-2008 02:53 PM #33
      Quote, originally posted by squishacorn »
      well it looks like the jury has decided then - The S4 is more expensive than the 335. And while it is unfortunate the truth is I'd still rather pay for an S4 or an S5 over the 335 sedan or coupe...

      I agree.
      The 335i stock performance numbers have definitely been underrated by BMW. (as well reported/suggested by many car reviews even before the cars introduction into the US) As mentioned by another poster, very simple and generally inexpensive performance mods on this car will have it outperforming most of what Audi has to offer. (B6 and B7 S4, S5 etc) I have seen 0-60 numbers in the mid 4's for a chipped 335i.
      However, there is more to the car than what is under the hood. Lets not forget about interiors. IMO, BMW had really dropped the ball on interior styling and refinement for years now. I have seen American cars with nicer interiors for a lot less money.
      I think for the overall package, Audi has them all beat hands down. Fast and sexy sports cars with very sophisticated an elegant interiors.
      There are more to cars than performance numbers. And I would hate to purchase a car simply because it was faster than the others in its category. That is behavior for teenagers and "boy racers" and not for someone who likes to think they are more advanced in their automotive knowledge and enthusiasm.
      No I must step down from my high horse and move on!

    34. 10-08-2008 06:39 PM #34
      Quote, originally posted by miraclewhips »
      There are more to cars than performance numbers. And I would hate to purchase a car simply because it was faster than the others in its category. That is behavior for teenagers and "boy racers" and not for someone who likes to think they are more advanced in their automotive knowledge and enthusiasm.

      This is my very point. If it is just about performance numbers buy a STI or something. It's the overall package where Audi prevails IMO. Furthermore, as much I am guilty of Exhibition of Speed from time to time, I won't be taking my car to the race track and what do I care if I'm in an S4 or S5 (when I buy one) and some 335 sedan or coupe beats me off the line or down the stretch...my car looks better inside and out and still goes really fast.



      Modified by squishacorn at 3:41 PM 10/8/2008

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      10-09-2008 09:25 PM #35
      squishacorn-
      I agree, but many of us are frustrated we can't get a Audi with forced induction without moving all the way up to a $50k+ car (A4 aside since it lacks the manual transmission at this point.)
      Yes, Audi has by far the best overall package, but when it comes to tuning and playing with modifications, the BMW brings a highly tunable engine in a reasonable price point. I hoped that BMW's 335 would have forced Audi to push out the V6 3.2 for a V6t without moving to the S series cars. Only if the new car is lower priced than it's predecessor, very unlikely, will it be a huge competitor to the 335.
      Ideally, Audi doesn't want to directly compete with the 335, and the same with BMW, so all these moves make sense, it's just frustrating for us.
      Co-Founder - The Austin Grand Prix www.theaustingrandprix.com

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