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    Thread: *** Is it time for you to get a 24V Turbo Kit ? ***

    1. Member GTI 20th AE #1421's Avatar
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      10-17-2008 04:04 PM #106
      would you guys say that this kit is more reliable then the EIP kit and how does it perform on a daily driver? (im not bashing on EIP)

    2. Member Bdfrd 24v's Avatar
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      10-17-2008 05:02 PM #107
      Quote, originally posted by GTI 20th AE #1421 »
      would you guys say that this kit is more reliable then the EIP kit and how does it perform on a daily driver? (im not bashing on EIP)

      EIP (Cough)

      2003 24vT - 2.9L JE, Eagle, C2 Motorsports, Precision Turbo, Jeff Atwood, Fully Polished Aluminum and Stainless components, Peloquin Diff, Clutchnet state 3+ clutch, 11lb Flywheel, 3.5" DP, Custom 3" magnaflow, Catch can,Weitec, OZ Canyon II 19x8 & 19x9.5, 17x9 w/ Hoosiers for track, Greddy Profec BII, Memphis 4-10" M Class, Memphis Components, Memphis Belle 1000 5 Channel, Pioneer w/ Nav, Updated Dyno results to come.

    3. 10-17-2008 05:42 PM #108
      The EIP kit is perfectly reliable. The software/fueling seems to be where the problem was. The real issue lied in the fact that EIP did not take proper action to fix problems for customers that they themselves (EIP) had caused. The hardware is actually pretty well made. The C2 hardware is actually pretty much identical to that of EIP.

    4. Member GTI 20th AE #1421's Avatar
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      10-17-2008 05:44 PM #109
      Quote, originally posted by NastyBrown »
      The EIP kit is perfectly reliable. The software/fueling seems to be where the problem was. The real issue lied in the fact that EIP did not take proper action to fix problems for customers that they themselves (EIP) had caused. The hardware is actually pretty well made. The C2 hardware is actually pretty much identical to that of EIP.

      so for the money if you could afford either kit which one would be better?? EIP kit or Kinetic kit?


    5. 10-17-2008 05:59 PM #110
      Considering the fact that EIP no longer produces a kit, the Kinetic one. I have a used EIP kit (with unitronic software) and it is great. The Kinetic mani's mounting position allows for a bigger turbo, but is T3. I, personally, would prefer a T04 flange. It should be a great kit. Once you add software/fueling, it will cost about the same as C2, but you can choose whatever software you want.

    6. Member GTI 20th AE #1421's Avatar
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      10-17-2008 08:20 PM #111
      Quote, originally posted by NastyBrown »
      Considering the fact that EIP no longer produces a kit, the Kinetic one. I have a used EIP kit (with unitronic software) and it is great. The Kinetic mani's mounting position allows for a bigger turbo, but is T3. I, personally, would prefer a T04 flange. It should be a great kit. Once you add software/fueling, it will cost about the same as C2, but you can choose whatever software you want.

      so the turbo the comes with the Kinetic is a T3, correct? because i have been looking at kits, but the turbo i would like to use, personally, is the Garrett GT35 on the 24v VR. is the turbo that comes in the kinetic kit larger or smaller that the GT35??


    7. 10-17-2008 08:44 PM #112
      Quote, originally posted by GTI 20th AE #1421 »

      so the turbo the comes with the Kinetic is a T3, correct? because i have been looking at kits, but the turbo i would like to use, personally, is the Garrett GT35 on the 24v VR. is the turbo that comes in the kinetic kit larger or smaller that the GT35??

      if it was Garret it would be larger as in higher CFM's

      T67 in t4 is 75 lbs a min, a Gt3582r is 60 lbs a min, the T61 is a Gt35/40 and its 65lbs its got a T4 as well, there are a lot of GT35 variations but most are T3.... the ball bearings are a benefit though.


      oh and as Porkchop mentioned, the Rotomaster T67 is T3 flange which means it will flow less than the advertised 75lbs a min. We don't have actual flow numbers yet, but hopefully some geek will find them


    8. 10-17-2008 08:45 PM #113
      GT35 is usually T3 flange. The kinetic manifold would work fine. I would take the 35R, personally, over the T67. I am sure that you could talk to Clay and get a GT35R with the kit instead of the T67. Just will cost more. I wanna get a turbo like the one SLEEPYDUB has. Looks to be a GT35R with a T4 housing. Pretty pimp sh*t.


      Modified by NastyBrown at 5:58 PM 10-17-2008

    9. 10-17-2008 09:08 PM #114
      PS


      T3 is not a curse, the big difference between T3 and T4 is the housing in a T4 is bigger and it can handle higher flow rates. There are a ton of benefits to this, the biggest is that it has more potential for higher HP numbers and will work less hard to produce current (air).

      Ultimately you need to decide on your goal, if you are going to be satisfied with 400hp ... you can settle with a T3. As with anything, being goal oriented will help you with all your decisions.

      personally, I like the C2 kit as I think the T04E they supply is a decent choice (for the base kit) and the T4 flange provides a turbo system that will be fairly safe even with higher numbers because the turbo theoreticly will not have to work as hard to generate the same amount of power as a similar sized T3 cartrige.

      From what I have read the best performance comes from hybrid turbos with T4 intake and T3 exhaust... I have still yet to find the benefits of the T3 side, still looking.

      I am in no way a turbo expert, and there is lots of conflicting information and personal bias. But its not always bad to have a T3 flange...


    10. 10-17-2008 09:11 PM #115
      Quote, originally posted by NastyBrown »
      GT35 is usually T3 flange. The kinetic manifold would work fine. I would take the 35R, personally, over the T67. I am sure that you could talk to Clay and get a GT35R with the kit instead of the T67. Just will cost more. I wanna get a turbo like the one SLEEPYDUB has. Looks to be a GT35R with a T4 housing. Pretty pimp sh*t.


      Modified by NastyBrown at 5:58 PM 10-17-2008

      Is that a T61? the Blowzilla LOL? or is it one of those rare options seldom seen in the Gt3582R? (I know garret has a few opions in T4 for the GT35R)


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      10-17-2008 09:19 PM #116
      Quote, originally posted by NastyBrown »
      Considering the fact that EIP no longer produces a kit, the Kinetic one. I have a used EIP kit (with unitronic software) and it is great. The Kinetic mani's mounting position allows for a bigger turbo, but is T3. I, personally, would prefer a T04 flange. It should be a great kit. Once you add software/fueling, it will cost about the same as C2, but you can choose whatever software you want.

      The Kinetic manifold is a T3 flanged manifold, thats right. I would prefer a T4 flange, but the T3 flange is fine for most people.


      Quote, originally posted by GTI 20th AE #1421 »

      so the turbo the comes with the Kinetic is a T3, correct? because i have been looking at kits, but the turbo i would like to use, personally, is the Garrett GT35 on the 24v VR. is the turbo that comes in the kinetic kit larger or smaller that the GT35??

      The manifold has a T3 flange, so any turbo with a T3 flange will bolt up. The turbo that comes in the kit is a T67 with a P trim, machined to fit in an 82ar T3 housing, it still has the big boy P trim turbine wheel found on all other T67 turbos. The T67 is larger than the GT35R, and is rated for about 1-150 more HP than a GT35R.


      Quote, originally posted by NastyBrown »
      GT35 is usually T3 flange. The kinetic manifold would work fine. I would take the 35R, personally, over the T67. I am sure that you could talk to Clay and get a GT35R with the kit instead of the T67. Just will cost more. I wanna get a turbo like the one SLEEPYDUB has. Looks to be a GT35R with a T4 housing. Pretty pimp sh*t.

      The GT35R will spool faster for sure, but the T67 pulls like a raped ape, even more so than a GT35R, and it will still spool nicely because of the medium sized turbine housing. Jake/SLEEPYDUB has a sweet setup for sure, he just needs to take it easy on the shopping carts.


      Quote, originally posted by c0ntract_thrilla »
      PS

      T3 is not a curse, the big difference between T3 and T4 is the housing in a T4 is bigger and it can handle higher flow rates. There are a ton of benefits to this, the biggest is that it has more potential for higher HP numbers and will work less hard to produce current (air).

      Ultimately you need to decide on your goal, if you are going to be satisfied with 400hp ... you can settle with a T3. As with anything, being goal oriented will help you with all your decisions.

      I am in no way a turbo expert, and there is lots of conflicting information and personal bias. But its not always bad to have a T3 flange...

      There is actually a T3 flanged T67 producing 700+WHP on a 1.8T right now. I believe he also has a P trim turbine wheel, so the turbo in this kit is no slouch, it will and has produced 450HP (~420fwhp) on a .:R32 @ 15PSI on the Kinetic dyno.


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      10-17-2008 09:21 PM #117
      Quote, originally posted by c0ntract_thrilla »

      Is that a T61? the Blowzilla LOL? or is it one of those rare options seldom seen in the Gt3582R? (I know garret has a few opions in T4 for the GT35R)

      Actually the GT35Rs can come with a T4 flange too, but they normally come with a .63, .82, 1.06ar T3 flanged turbine housings. The blowzilla is also available in T3 flange and T4 flange, and as you probably know they are journal bearing turbos, they generally have a P trim turbine wheel and the 61/82mm compressor wheel from the GT35R.

      For the GT35R, a 58ar on-center is available and a .58 and .68 tangential used to be available, not certain if it is still. However, these were special order housings.


    13. 10-17-2008 09:37 PM #118
      Quote, originally posted by Clay @ CTS Turbo »

      Actually the GT35Rs can come with a T4 flange too, but they normally come with a .63, .82, 1.06ar T3 flanged turbine housings. The blowzilla is also available in T3 flange and T4 flange, and as you probably know they are journal bearing turbos, they generally have a P trim turbine wheel and the 61/82mm compressor wheel from the GT35R.

      For the GT35R, a 58ar on-center is available and a .58 and .68 tangential used to be available, not certain if it is still. However, these were special order housings.


      oh I am aware of the T4 flanged GT35's

      My whole point is that a T3 cartridge can meet the needs of most tuners. T4 has its beenefits but obviously a t4 will work less hard to produce similar amounts of power. I dont doubt that there are High HP apps running the T67, its a big turbo. the whole point of what porkchopboy and a few others are making is that T4 ultimately will be the required component to make massive power. And it will be safer


    14. 10-17-2008 09:39 PM #119
      Quote, originally posted by c0ntract_thrilla »

      Is that a T61? the Blowzilla LOL? or is it one of those rare options seldom seen in the Gt3582R? (I know garret has a few opions in T4 for the GT35R)

      I think SLEEPYDUB'S is a Precision turbo.


    15. 10-17-2008 09:49 PM #120
      I love how the biggest concern is a t3 hotside on the turbo. If you want more of a hot side just ask for the 1.06 t3 which can make over 500 easy. I don't know how many people actually know what a t3 can do. Anything bigger and you guys would complain about spool lol.

    16. 10-17-2008 09:49 PM #121
      Quote, originally posted by NastyBrown »

      I think SLEEPYDUB'S is a Precision turbo.


      Really I thought it was a garrett with an s housing.

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      10-17-2008 09:50 PM #122
      Quote, originally posted by c0ntract_thrilla »

      oh I am aware of the T4 flanged GT35's

      My whole point is that a T3 cartridge can meet the needs of most tuners. T4 has its beenefits but obviously a t4 will work less hard to produce similar amounts of power. I dont doubt that there are High HP apps running the T67, its a big turbo. the whole point of what porkchopboy and a few others are making is that T4 ultimately will be the required component to make massive power. And it will be safer

      I figured you were, I misread your initial post, that was my fault. I agree 100% with what you said. Some people are even crazy enough to use a T6 flange, they are commonly found on industrial applications, but some of the big power supras and others run them too.


      Quote, originally posted by NastyBrown »

      I think SLEEPYDUB'S is a Precision turbo.

      Precision is a Garrett Retail Distributor, which is one step down from a Performance distributor in the Garrett hierarchy. They cast their own Compressor and Turbine housings, which they bolt around a Garrett GT3582R cartridge 714568-5005 (part #). They are nice housings though, and that is a great turbo that SLEEPYDUB has.


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      10-17-2008 09:52 PM #123
      Quote, originally posted by vdubspeed88 »

      Really I thought it was a garrett with an s housing.

      It is a Garrett GT35R cartridge, with a Precision turbo T04S compressor housing, and a Precision turbo T4 flanged turbine housing, I think its a .58 or .68 tangential v-band. Precision calls them Precision turbos, but it is what it is, and thats what the turbo is made up from.


    19. 10-17-2008 09:58 PM #124
      I think the real power to be had is indy throttle bodies with electric superchargers.


      I am going to pioneer this route


      he he he


      im drunk. <3 for turbo lovers.


      all this turbo talk is arrousing I think I need to invest in a snail!


      CTS where are you located in canada?


    20. 10-17-2008 10:00 PM #125
      Quote, originally posted by Clay @ CTS Turbo »

      It is a Garrett GT35R cartridge, with a Precision turbo T04S compressor housing, and a Precision turbo T4 flanged turbine housing, I think its a .58 or .68 tangential v-band. Precision calls them Precision turbos, but it is what it is, and thats what the turbo is made up from.

      Yeah. Basically a modified GT35R. That was what I thought. I need to get me one of those. Prolly gonna wait till the Turbonetics turbo blows though.


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      10-17-2008 10:05 PM #126
      Quote, originally posted by c0ntract_thrilla »
      I think the real power to be had is indy throttle bodies with electric superchargers.


      I am going to pioneer this route


      he he he


      im drunk. <3 for turbo lovers.


      all this turbo talk is arrousing I think I need to invest in a snail!


      CTS where are you located in canada?

      Located in Vancouver, do you know Lee Purcel from Halifax NS?


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      10-17-2008 10:06 PM #127
      Quote, originally posted by NastyBrown »

      Yeah. Basically a modified GT35R. That was what I thought. I need to get me one of those. Prolly gonna wait till the Turbonetics turbo blows though.

      Yeah, the GT35Rs are pretty sweet, great turbo.


    23. 10-17-2008 10:12 PM #128
      Quote, originally posted by Clay @ CTS Turbo »

      Yeah, the GT35Rs are pretty sweet, great turbo.

      So then we agree to....well....agree. Werd.


    24. 10-17-2008 10:18 PM #129
      Not to swing nutz but the T61 w/ .68 T4 hotside flows 971 cfm or 68 lb/min, more than the GT3582R.

    25. 10-17-2008 10:19 PM #130
      Quote, originally posted by Clay @ CTS Turbo »

      Located in Vancouver, do you know Lee Purcel from Halifax NS?

      yes i certainly do! great guy. I take it he ordered his replacement turbo from you guys? His last one bit the dust Buck nasty style.

      His GLI put down 365 WHP last week. Not bad for a 1.8


      hmmm... now I will really have to consider this kit, no duty lol


    26. 10-17-2008 10:24 PM #131
      Quote, originally posted by pOrKcHoP bOy »
      Not to swing nutz but the T61 w/ .68 T4 hotside flows 971 cfm or 68 lb/min, more than the GT3582R.

      the way you say that it sounds like, it flows 68lb/min more than the GT35...

      I know that the T61 blows 68, from what I have found the Gt35 is around 60 ish? any word on that porkchop boy?

      also what is the lag like for the guys here running big turbos?

      how bad is the lag on


    27. 10-17-2008 10:31 PM #132
      Quote, originally posted by pOrKcHoP bOy »
      Not to swing nutz but the T61 w/ .68 T4 hotside flows 971 cfm or 68 lb/min, 3-8 lb/min more than the GT35R, which can flow anywhere from 60-65 lb/min depending on which turbine housing you choose.

      Fixed it for ya

      The 1.06 T3 hotside can flow more than 65 lb/min IIRC.

      SLEEPYDUB's turbo is equipped with with a precision .58 T4 hotside and according to Arnold at Pagparts, the distributor where he purchased his turbo from, can flow more than 65 lb/min

      Based on conversations with Medic83, the DBB T61 will spool @ 3800rpm


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      10-17-2008 10:33 PM #133
      Quote, originally posted by c0ntract_thrilla »

      yes i certainly do! great guy. I take it he ordered his replacement turbo from you guys? His last one bit the dust Buck nasty style.

      His GLI put down 365 WHP last week. Not bad for a 1.8


      hmmm... now I will really have to consider this kit, no duty lol

      Tell him to do the Newfy stomp for me, I know him very well.


      Quote, originally posted by pOrKcHoP bOy »
      Not to swing nutz but the T61 w/ .68 T4 hotside flows 971 cfm or 68 lb/min, more than the GT3582R.

      The T61 refers to the compressor wheel inducer in mm. The GT3582R has a 61mm inducer, making them the same. Garrett T61s use the same compressor wheel as the GT35R. The CFM rating is the compressor wheel rating only, and if you're finding a 3lb/min difference thats negligable. These numbers were available in the Garrett Performance Distributors Catalogue, and are a pretty good reference. These numbers were published by Garrett, and that doesn't mean that they are not conservative, ie: a 61mm wheel can flow more than 65lbs/min, but this is directly from material Garrett printed some years ago.


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      10-17-2008 10:36 PM #134

      Quote, originally posted by pOrKcHoP bOy »
      Not to swing nutz but the T61 w/ .68 T4 hotside flows 971 cfm or 68 lb/min, more than the GT3582R.

      75lb/min ~ 960CFM, a T67 flows about that, a T61 won't flow as much as a T67.


    30. 10-17-2008 10:49 PM #135
      Quote, originally posted by Clay @ CTS Turbo »


      75lb/min ~ 960CFM, a T67 flows about that, a T61 won't flow as much as a T67.

      Yes, I am aware that 68lb/min < 75 lb/min, but 971 cfm / 14.27 = 68 lb/min

      And yes a T67 > T61, no doubt about that

      http://www.lovehorsepower.com/...s.htm


      Modified by pOrKcHoP bOy at 7:52 PM 10-17-2008


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      10-17-2008 11:08 PM #136
      Quote, originally posted by pOrKcHoP bOy »

      Yes, I am aware that 68lb/min < 75 lb/min, but 971 cfm / 14.27 = 68 lb/min

      And yes a T67 > T61, no doubt about that

      http://www.lovehorsepower.com/...s.htm

      You're using a different factor for air density, I have seen anywhere from ~12 to ~14, which will result in different CFM ratings...

      On a side note, compressor wheels are CNC machined to size, companies cast multiple compressor wheels with the varying blade profiles and then machine them to 61mm, so you can have a super aggressive 61mm or a super weak sauce 61mm inducer. Since 61mm is the 61 in T61, you can have a bunch of different 61mm wheels that people will call T61s. Hopefully that was clear, and different people have certainly measured flows and i'm sure there are variances, but all the T61s that I know Garrett performance distributors make use a 61mm wheel from the GT35R because its efficient and easy to get, no real machining required other than maybe the center bore.



    32. 10-18-2008 07:11 AM #137
      Quote, originally posted by Clay @ CTS Turbo »

      You're using a different factor for air density, I have seen anywhere from ~12 to ~14, which will result in different CFM ratings...

      Most conversion factors I've seen lean more towards the 14.2-14.4 range

      1)At sea level and 112 degrees, conversion factor is (1/0.070318) = 14.22 which yields 68.3 lb/min

      2)Garrett uses (1/0.069) = 14.49 which yields 67.0 lb/min

      And according to you, any difference that is less than 3 lb/min is insignificant




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      10-18-2008 10:54 AM #138
      Quote, originally posted by pOrKcHoP bOy »

      Most conversion factors I've seen lean more towards the 14.2-14.4 range

      1)At sea level and 112 degrees, conversion factor is (1/0.070318) = 14.22 which yields 68.3 lb/min

      2)Garrett uses (1/0.069) = 14.49 which yields 67.0 lb/min

      And according to you, any difference that is less than 3 lb/min is insignificant




      As far as I'm aware Garrett doesn't have any posted CFM ratings, they are all in Lbs/min. The CFM rating you posted is going to vary with the temp/density of the air, so if you want to nit pick you can call them whatever you want. Where did you find the 68lbs/min posted by Garrett for a T61?


    34. Member GTI 20th AE #1421's Avatar
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      10-18-2008 03:56 PM #139
      which will lag more?, and which will produce more power in the long run? the T61 OR the GT35R?

    35. Member GTI 20th AE #1421's Avatar
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      10-18-2008 03:59 PM #140
      im looking to have a VR with over 500HP and yes i know i need supporting mods to achieve this.
      my thing is that I am trying to find the right turbo.


      Modified by GTI 20th AE #1421 at 1:01 PM 10-18-2008

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