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    Thread: VF stage 2 plus, the forgotten people

    1. Member vwgeorge2's Avatar
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      10-05-2008 09:08 PM #1
      NEW HPA CONTENT IN THE WORKS!!!


      This thread is not meant to be too intense, but it has to be started for all of us forgotten VF stage 2 owners. As you know the VF stage 3 and 4 were dropped because the V9 charger wasn’t performing as planned, and turbo’s are the big ticket item these days, so I don’t blame VF for their decision.

      The intent is to somewhat reliably get the most out of our stage 2 setup, VF/C2/and HPA have ideas, software, or maybe even tweaks that may help get more out of the stage 2 setup , but no major commitment as of yet for specific upgrades.

      Please remember this is about R32 stage 2 setups, please don’t say go turbo, the decision and the money are done, and honestly I’ve always been wanting a supercharged car.

      Below are some starter topics, I’m sure a year from now my R32 will be screaming, and maybe then one of the above companies will give us some serious software to control the package, maybe even some cool hardware?

      So give your idea, a link where it can be purchased, how to install it, and what to expect.

      Thanks in advance for your time and effort.

      1. Smaller supercharger pulley with non slip coating. 2.5 inch for starters? I do have one of these on order, just waiting for them to make it!


      http://www.joeheckracing.com/s...79-04

      http://www.reichardracing.com/pulleys.php

      http://www.superchargersonline...8-285

      http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/8ribpulley.php


      2. Belt upgrades, with emphasis on future availability, maybe even a 10 rib conversion.

      http://shop.verdictmotorsports...d=112


      3. Fuel delivery, injectors, MAF, and Fuel pressure regulator possibilities. Can I change injectors without updating the software, is there a close drop in that has more room to grow? Whats HPA bringing to the table?

      https://www.c2motorsports.net/....aspx


      4. High flow CATS, maybe even gutting the convertor, I know it’s illegal, just an idea. How do we do this without the blasted CEL?

      5. Water/Meth injection controlled by boost pressure, and mixture variables.

      6. Intercooler spray bar, with water mist.
      http://www.usrallyteam.com/ind...12_30

      7. Boost tube insulation after intercooler to shield from motor heat buildup, will this do anything?

      8. Cams, who makes cams for F/I cars? Maybe HPA ?

      9. HPA's new setup for VF Stage 2 R32s, new software with no Hiccups !

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4120635

      OK Marcel, you have our ATTENTION! lets see what you can do for us......


      OK, that’s enough ideas to get this thread going, please feel free to send suggestions for the original post and ill update as required. Any idea is a good one; please stay on topic to avoid a bloated thread.

      Thanks

      VWgeorge2


      My modified Aux rad.....and washer bottle






      Modified by vwgeorge2 at 10:18 PM 4-13-2009


    2. Member newcreation's Avatar
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      10-06-2008 06:03 AM #2
      I ran cams with my charger when i had it,The only problem was it needed more fuel and a tune but ran really strong anyhow.
      -JAMES-
      DRIVEN/Built /UM Turbo R - VR NATION

    3. 10-06-2008 09:29 AM #3
      The smaller pulley would be of use, and since belt slippage is a concern the non-slip coating would definitely be of use. Something with like a sintered texture would be great. If there were something like an automatic tensioner that could be adapted, I'm sure that would help as well.

      The high flow cats, as far as I know you can run those and Supersprint headers with an exhaust to make decent gains with your supercharged setup (if you aren't already). Gutting the cats shouldn't be necessary, and if you want there's enough people out there that make "test pipes" for the car.

      Cams are definitely a good option, but again you're going to need a tune and fueling. C2 seems to be the option there since they already have VF's supercharger on their site.

      If you're going for daily driver capability/reliability, I wouldn't rely on an intercooler mister as part of your upgrade package. Maybe if you're at the track, but from the information that's been presented on both Vortex and the TDI forums, you're better off going with a water/meth injection setup and a 5.5L washer tank.

      PowerDubs has had impressive gains just NA with his ported and polished head, I'd add that to your list if you're wanting to go even further.


    4. Member Mike97xj's Avatar
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      10-06-2008 09:34 AM #4
      One of my friends mentioned a cogged setup with an idler that some company is making.

      Hopefully I'll talk to him tonight and figure out wtf he's talking about.


    5. Member R32R1's Avatar
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      10-06-2008 09:35 AM #5
      yeah it allows you to run 15 psi smoothly...

      http://shop.verdictmotorsports...Id=22

      They do not list a cogged setup for the .:R but I know they have one available



      Modified by R32R1 at 6:38 AM 10-6-2008


    6. Member Mike97xj's Avatar
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      10-06-2008 02:03 PM #6
      That's exactly what he said, I didn't realize the r could do 15psi w/o changing compression, I thought you could only do 8ish.

    7. 10-06-2008 03:35 PM #7
      Quote, originally posted by vwgeorge2 »

      3. Fuel delivery, injectors, MAF, and Fuel pressure regulator possibilities.

      First off, your R looks great with the mostly black theme.
      Next, C2 has a lot of this covered, unless you want even more power.

      Quote, originally posted by vwgeorge2 »

      1. Smaller supercharger pulley with non slip coating. 2.5 inch for starters?

      You could try treating the belt with drag tire traction compound.


      Quote, originally posted by vwgeorge2 »

      5. Water/Meth injection controlled by boost pressure, and mixture variables.

      It's available through vendors on this website. Most useful with increased compression or a remap for race gas when running pump gas.

      Quote, originally posted by vwgeorge2 »

      6. Intercooler spray bar, with water mist.

      Probably a waste of money on a street car.

      Quote, originally posted by vwgeorge2 »

      7. Boost tube insulation after intercooler to shield from motor heat buildup

      Not a bad idea to do all of the plumbing. Perhaps a company like Swain?


      http://www.swaintech.com/store...19694


      Modified by HowardTheDuck at 12:49 PM 10-6-2008


    8. Member newcreation's Avatar
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      10-06-2008 04:20 PM #8
      After 8-9 psi you will need to lower the compression
      -JAMES-
      DRIVEN/Built /UM Turbo R - VR NATION

    9. 10-06-2008 05:52 PM #9
      Quote, originally posted by newcreation »
      After 8-9 psi you will need to lower the compression

      thats not always true if u can get someone to do an awesome tune for u then u dont need to lower the comp, its been done ask me how ino. yes it does cost $ but wat doesnt when owning an R32, trust me real soon someone will come out w/ a better upgrade for the stg 2 guys.

      but i did have stg2 and w/ just a milltek exhaust it was strong...

      "Remember its a VW..........its not supposed to be easy, just worth it."

    10. 10-06-2008 06:55 PM #10
      i just want stage 2 to make more low end torque....i know the centrifugal supercharger builds boost based on engine rpms, but a good tune maybe could give better low end???? i dont know.

    11. 10-06-2008 07:42 PM #11
      Quote, originally posted by newcreation »
      After 8-9 psi you will need to lower the compression

      Water/Meth injection would take care of that.


    12. Member newcreation's Avatar
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      10-06-2008 08:40 PM #12
      yes it can i know all of this but when a you ask someone to do this c2 and they still say lower the compression i have to ask why.

      I am around cars getting tuned everyweek my buddy is really well known just not for vws lol. http://www.j-k-tuning.com he's really good learned alot from him tuning wise over the years.His site doesn't show much lol 2 busy





      Modified by newcreation at 5:43 PM 10-6-2008

      -JAMES-
      DRIVEN/Built /UM Turbo R - VR NATION

    13. 10-06-2008 08:56 PM #13
      Quote, originally posted by HowardTheDuck »

      First off, your R looks great with the mostly black theme.

      ummm That my car


    14. Banned jettin123's Avatar
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      10-06-2008 09:45 PM #14
      Quote, originally posted by fukndubn96 »

      thats not always true if u can get someone to do an awesome tune for u then u dont need to lower the comp, its been done ask me how ino. yes it does cost $ but wat doesnt when owning an R32. . .

      Yes, it may be possible, but wouldn't it be safer and make more power with a lower compression?


    15. 10-06-2008 09:57 PM #15
      Quote, originally posted by jettin123 »

      Yes, it may be possible, but wouldn't it be safer and make more power with a lower compression?

      u sir are correct but then again its only a stg 2 vf kit

      "Remember its a VW..........its not supposed to be easy, just worth it."

    16. 10-06-2008 10:04 PM #16
      On a boosted car then easist way to add HP is low compression and raise the boost. That being the problem I see is everyone wants it done for them. I went thru several engines trying to get more power out of my DSM doing it myself it was fun and now I can rebuild a 4G63T with my eyes closed. Thats why this time I bought a reliable kit and yes I was looking at 3 and 4, but if it was not worth it for VF's $$ to keep it up I don't have that kind of time or money. Just my thoughts

      Oh Idea is Just like in the DSM world lets get over that first obsticle
      http://www.maftpro.com/


    17. Member vwgeorge2's Avatar
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      10-08-2008 08:40 PM #17
      Anyone out there with C2 software? is it the 400HP or 500HP version?
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...-final-fantasy....

      Stage 7= VF, HPA= V7-ysi, A/W Intake, Dual Jet Water/Meth, UM E-85 Flex 870cc, ProMAF, 268 Cams, SS Header, SS Mid pipe, Custom intake, Brisk plugs, Lambo flapper

    18. Member jessla's Avatar
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      10-09-2008 09:38 AM #18
      A VF Stage 2 with a V9 Supercharger will not last at higher boost levels. Remember VF changed to the V2 for the few Stage 3/4's they sold.
      GT35, HFC, Neuspeed exhaust. FK Silverline Plus X.
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    19. Banner Advertiser brad@fifteen52's Avatar
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      10-09-2008 11:08 AM #19
      Quote, originally posted by jessla »
      A VF Stage 2 with a V9 Supercharger will not last at higher boost levels. Remember VF changed to the V2 for the few Stage 3/4's they sold.

      Agreed.

      I've worked with enough of these kits (while working for VF and here at 1552) and I am not comfortable recommending any increase in boost with the V9.

      The fact that a boost increase requires fueling changes and voids your VF warranty means you really need to think things through before you try to build your own Stage 2+.


    20. 10-09-2008 01:00 PM #20
      Quote, originally posted by jessla »
      A VF Stage 2 with a V9 Supercharger will not last at higher boost levels. Remember VF changed to the V2 for the few Stage 3/4's they sold.

      and by "not last" he means die


    21. Member R32R1's Avatar
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      10-09-2008 01:08 PM #21
      Quote, originally posted by brad@fifteen52 »

      Agreed.

      I've worked with enough of these kits (while working for VF and here at 1552) and I am not comfortable recommending any increase in boost with the V9.

      The fact that a boost increase requires fueling changes and voids your VF warranty means you really need to think things through before you try to build your own Stage 2+.

      Okay that is completely understandable but do you think they will care if a cogged setup was swapped with similar psi pullies?


    22. Member Navydub's Avatar
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      10-09-2008 01:27 PM #22
      Quote, originally posted by vwgeorge2 »
      Anyone out there with C2 software? is it the 400HP or 500HP version?

      Most of you guys know I ran the C2.400SC file and had great sucess with it. My only issues were install related and 100% MY fault

      With the 440's included in the C2 kit you have alot of room to play with even on the stock 4 bar FPR. If I wouldve kept the kit, the cogged belt option looked VERY tempting.

      I don't understand how increasing boost levels on the V9 can be such a bad idea when Vortech rates the blower up to 20psi and some ridiculous RPM....

      Turbo Unicorn | HS Tuning | 42DD | Cabin Krew

    23. Member R32R1's Avatar
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      10-09-2008 01:32 PM #23
      Quote, originally posted by Navydub »

      I don't understand how increasing boost levels on the V9 can be such a bad idea when Vortech rates the blower up to 20psi and some ridiculous RPM....

      My thoughts exactly. IMO, I would do a 15psi cogged setup w/ head spacer, injectors, and fuel pump and call it a day but with this 3 year warranty, not sure on that. gotta clear it with the big guy (sean from VF). lol look at me talking about more psi when I havent even gone past 3800 rpms yet lol. 300 miles to go!


    24. Banner Advertiser brad@fifteen52's Avatar
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      10-09-2008 01:35 PM #24
      Quote, originally posted by Navydub »

      I don't understand how increasing boost levels on the V9 can be such a bad idea when Vortech rates the blower up to 20psi and some ridiculous RPM....

      I'm not going to speculate here as it's not my place, but I'd suggest you contact Vortech and ask them how their V9 ratings apply to different applications.


    25. Member Navydub's Avatar
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      10-09-2008 01:40 PM #25
      Quote, originally posted by R32R1 »

      My thoughts exactly. IMO, I would do a 15psi cogged setup w/ head spacer, injectors, and fuel pump and call it a day but with this 3 year warranty, not sure on that. gotta clear it with the big guy (sean from VF). lol look at me talking about more psi when I havent even gone past 3800 rpms yet lol. 300 miles to go!

      I'm pretty sure the warranty is through Vortec on the blower, not through VF(they send all the blowers back to vortec for repairs). So if Vortec warranties the charger up to xxxxxx RPM. I say spin the bitch. But maybe talk to Vortec first

      Turbo Unicorn | HS Tuning | 42DD | Cabin Krew

    26. Banner Advertiser brad@fifteen52's Avatar
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      10-09-2008 01:43 PM #26
      Quote, originally posted by Navydub »

      I'm pretty sure the warranty is through Vortec on the blower, not through VF(they send all the blowers back to vortec for repairs). So if Vortec warranties the charger up to xxxxxx RPM. I say spin the bitch. But maybe talk to Vortec first

      Wrong. Vortech warrantees the chargers via use in VF kits. IOW, you send the V9 to VF, they inspect it, and if they deem it warrantee-able, they send it to Vortech. Again, different applications dictate different considerations from Vortech.


    27. Member R32R1's Avatar
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      10-09-2008 02:36 PM #27
      Quote, originally posted by brad@fifteen52 »

      Wrong. Vortech warrantees the chargers via use in VF kits. IOW, you send the V9 to VF, they inspect it, and if they deem it warrantee-able, they send it to Vortech. Again, different applications dictate different considerations from Vortech.

      okay but do you think that a cogged setup around even 10 psi is going to hurt the V9, IYO off the record?


    28. Member Jamaican_tuner's Avatar
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      10-09-2008 02:48 PM #28
      Quote, originally posted by R32R1 »

      okay but do you think that a cogged setup around even 10 psi is going to hurt the V9, IYO off the record?

      Jeff posted some data a few weeks ago with regards to the supercharger RPMs and where it currently resides @ 8 psi with the size pulley on it in relationship to maximum allowed.

      I will search to see if I can find it...

      **EDIT**
      Found it.


      Quote »
      Quote, originally posted by R32R1 »
      mentioned that the V9 is extremely efficient due to it running at 33% of its capacity.

      Quote »

      There are THREE 'limits' to the blower's ability.
      (data from Vortech's website)

      1. Pressure : 20psi
      2. Flow: 800 cfm
      3. Impeller max RPM: 65,000

      NONE of these is same operating point. i.e. you cannot get 800cfm
      flow when making 20psi.

      If you run the blower to MAX impeller speed, you WILL NOT get close
      to flow max or pressure max on an R32. (or any vr6 for that matter)
      (Max impeller speed can be had with a 2.5" to 2.25" pulley)

      To say that the V9 is only running at 33% is misleading.
      If a V9 blower has a 3.125" pulley, its running ~75% of
      impeller speed max. (on a r32), this makes what? ~6-7psi.


      -Jeffrey Atwood


      From this thread- http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4029797




      Modified by Jamaican_tuner at 2:54 PM 10-9-2008


    29. 10-09-2008 03:10 PM #29
      Quote, originally posted by vwgeorge2 »

      1. Smaller supercharger pulley with non slip coating. 2.5 inch for starters?


      http://www.superchargersonline...8-285

      2. Belt upgrades, with emphasis on future availability, maybe even a 10 rib conversion.

      Is there a problem with belt slippage now? I never really looked at any of the VF supercharged threads because 1) not applicable to my car and 2) I am not a big supercharging fan... but if you are just trying to prevent slippage, you can try Ultra Grip Pulleys from Reichard Racing: http://www.reichardracing.com/pulleys.php

      You go through belts a bit faster, but they are pretty effective at eliminating the slippage issue. It's a good middle ground before stepping up to a cog setup.


    30. Member R32R1's Avatar
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      10-09-2008 03:13 PM #30
      i should of remembered that post lol it was my thread to begin with

      So basically to get more boost out of a V9, you would need to change it to a V2 blower? lol


    31. 10-09-2008 04:26 PM #31
      Will be watching this post. Recently I finally added a boost gauge. So far I haven't seen it hit above 5 PSI and 90% of the time it will only hit 4 PSI at 7000 rpm. I keep a very close eye on my R and constantly check the belt, pipes ect. Seems the belt is tight but tightening it is a PITA. Still feels strong, however 2 more PSI from say a cogged belt set up would be nice.

    32. Member jessla's Avatar
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      10-09-2008 05:26 PM #32
      Quote, originally posted by devin11 »
      Will be watching this post. Recently I finally added a boost gauge. So far I haven't seen it hit above 5 PSI and 90% of the time it will only hit 4 PSI at 7000 rpm. I keep a very close eye on my R and constantly check the belt, pipes ect. Seems the belt is tight but tightening it is a PITA. Still feels strong, however 2 more PSI from say a cogged belt set up would be nice.

      I ran a Stage 2 for tens of thousands of miles. I always had 6 to 7 psi. The plastic DV's are a waste, and belt tension is criticial. You need a very thin 19mm open end wrench, Fascom (IIRC) makes them for F1 Farrari. Without this tool, the front of the car needs to be removed to do the adjustment well. There may also be a problem with the blower (rare), look for oil in the intake or FMIC.

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    33. Member R32R1's Avatar
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      10-09-2008 05:31 PM #33
      Yeah 4 psi def means there is something wrong with the setup. I havent put a boost gauge on yet, but next week it should arrive to compare

    34. 10-09-2008 06:34 PM #34
      Quote, originally posted by jessla »

      I ran a Stage 2 for tens of thousands of miles. I always had 6 to 7 psi. The plastic DV's are a waste, and belt tension is criticial. You need a very thin 19mm open end wrench, Fascom (IIRC) makes them for F1 Farrari. Without this tool, the front of the car needs to be removed to do the adjustment well. There may also be a problem with the blower (rare), look for oil in the intake or FMIC.

      Thanks for the info. I have one plastic and one metal DV. Metal is on the intake side plastic on post IC side. I am replacing the bushing in my VF dogbone mount tomorrow and figured I'd just take the bumper off and tighten the belt while I'm at it. It's been about 5 months. I figured I'd have to take off the intake pipe to tighten it anyway so the bumper coming off was already on the list. Can I get to that 19mm bolt if I do that?

      I cleaned the MAF about 11 weeks ago and it was quite dirty. Although it had been about 2 years since it had been cleaned so I'll look for oil this time again.


    35. Member R32R1's Avatar
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      10-09-2008 06:47 PM #35
      Quote, originally posted by devin11 »

      Thanks for the info. I have one plastic and one metal DV. Metal is on the intake side plastic on post IC side. I am replacing the bushing in my VF dogbone mount tomorrow and figured I'd just take the bumper off and tighten the belt while I'm at it. It's been about 5 months. I figured I'd have to take off the intake pipe to tighten it anyway so the bumper coming off was already on the list. Can I get to that 19mm bolt if I do that?

      I cleaned the MAF about 11 weeks ago and it was quite dirty. Although it had been about 2 years since it had been cleaned so I'll look for oil this time again.


      All you need to do is slightly loosen the two gold mounting bolts and take a crowbar to the charger to tighten it. Tighten the bolts after checking belt tension and presto! adjusted belt.


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