Upgrading Phaeton Navi to new RNS 810

[AudianerA6]

Any chances? I own the old Navi with CD System, so the really old one.

thanks

[Reflect]

wonder same thing

[Itzmann]

Things you might have to change...

At least
- infotainment wood panel surroundings
- new A/C control module and new A/C control panel
- new RNS 810

Probably
- new MFI control module (updated so it talks to the RNS 810 and to the suspension module(s) and to the user preferences and to the TPMS, since you are throwing away the old infotainment unit that used to be responsible for interfacing with those modules)
- which then, new instrument binnacle so that the new MFI control module has an MFI screen it recognizes and can talk to.

Possibly
- new metal chassis behind the infotainment unit wood so it can hold the new equipment which has new shapes, new screws, more parts, and probably new weights.

And there are other bits and pieces that may need replacement. I'd wager it would be a non-insignificant bill.

[Reflect]

yes lol. no easy way around it, but oemplus said they can do it but not cheap. so if u got the $ shout at them

[AudianerA6]

Ok, then... Oempl, what's the deal?

[OEMplus.com]

The 810 unit is not listed in ETKA yet, but I'm going off the history of these units being rather pricey. As a comparison, the RNS-510 (same touchscreen, but for Mk5, Passat, etc.) is $3600 retail.

I will keep an eye out for it and advise when the pricing is available.

[MK3SUPER8]

Asking a question will this unit fit in a mkIV GTI,.Just asking.

[OEMplus.com]

No.

[OEMplus.com]

Okay, we have pricing on the unit. Everyone sitting down? $8600 just for the head unit...

[udaymohan]

GOOD GOD!!!!!!

[mhoepfin]

Really, how in the world can a piece of electronics cost that much in this day and age?

They must be rolling the low production numbers along with R&D into that price!

[HeavyOil]

At current UK depreciation rates, a Phaeton will shortly cost less......

[plastech]

Buy a screen get a free phaeton

[B5Speedo]

I doubt it could be done.

The RNS510 for the "other" VWs as well as the MFD2 RNS DVD units were continent specific. Meaning that an EU unit would not work in the US and vice a versa. Then you would also have to determine if there are any US maps available for the unit. I don't know if any Audi or BMW maps would work.

Finally, have there been any CANBUS changes in the Phaeton during it's production? This may also make compatibility challenging.

[OEMplus.com]

Hello All,

Been a while since we have posted in here, but we have some good news...

Today we received an RNS-810, the touchscreen navigation system from the 2008+ Phaetons. We have a customer car coming in next week and we'll start the retrofit and testing process.

Stay tuned for updates!

[ruddyone]

Awesome!!!

I assume you also had to get the accompanying wood surround?

Looking forward to the results. Take lots of pics!

Nate

[Itzmann]

Interesting!



We'll have to see if the suspension controls work... didn't those migrate to the binnacle screen... which they can't on our older software.

[OEMplus.com]

Good question about the suspension controls. We will have a lot of work in front of us, but will update this thread as we go...

[tynee]

I'll be following. Getting tired of taking my Garmin with me.

[OEMplus.com]

We've got the old unit out of the car and are comparing it to the new version. It looks like there will be some serious wiring adapters needed just to get the new unit into the car. From there, we're going to dig and see what other components have been changed...

This first shot shows the faces of the units. Not much to worry about for fitment, as they are the same form factor.



The second shot shows the backs of the units. Old one is on the left (as above) and has a triple-plug system for the main connection, much like the Audi's do. The new version has a more traditional "quadlock" connector that has been used across both VW & Audi vehicles for some time now.



The third photo shows the old unit in more detail. The three-connector system on the right is a known entity, but the wiring is a little different. The two connectors for antenna are standard and we have an adapter for them already. The green connector appears to be related to the climate control system that is bundled into this unit. We are digging on that more now. While not as obvious, there is a fiber optic connector on this unit that connects it to the rear console. The new version doesn't have this, so we are scratching the head a bit to see what we'll do with that.



This last photo shows the back of the new unit. Quadlock ist kein problem and the other 26-pin connector will probably be a pared-down version of the 32-pin connector from the old unit. The connector toward the bottom is an 8-pin, which might account for the pins missing on the larger connector...?



Here we go, should be fun!!

[CLMims]

I posted this a while back on the old version of the forum, maybe these pinouts will help!

I was wondering about the J524/E265 rear climate control unit, as I thought this and the Nav were the two components connected to the J523 Infotainment via fiber optic cable, but in looking at the post on how to retrofit a rear climate control panel it seems the only wires going in are power, ground, CanHi and CanLo.

Not sure about the suspension controller, I would guess you might need a new instrument cluster...

From previous post:

I did a bit of digging through the 11/2008 version of the Communications workshop manual and found the following pin assignments for the new J523; they seem to be the same as the RNS-510 pinouts with the exception for Connector 6, which is at the bottom of the unit (where the new A/C controls are):

Connector 1 (4-pin) Hazard warning light switch (no change)

1 Warning lamp button

2 Terminal 31, negative

3 Warning lamp LED

4 Not assigned




Connector 2 (8-pin) Loudspeaker outputs (#1 in pic above)

1 Rear right loudspeaker, positive

2 Front right loudspeaker, positive

3 Front left loudspeaker, positive

4 Rear left loudspeaker, positive

5 Rear right loudspeaker, negative

6 Front right loudspeaker, negative

7 Front left loudspeaker, negative

8 Rear left loudspeaker, negative


Connector 3 (8-pin) Voltage supply lines and CAN bus (#2 in pic)

9 CAN bus, high

10 CAN bus, low

11 BOSE pin

12 Voltage supply, negative terminal 31

13 Not assigned

14 Not assigned

15 Voltage supply, positive, terminal 30

16 Anti-theft coding control signal, SAFE, positive


Connector 4 (12-pin) Telephone and microphone signals (#3 in pic)

1 Microphone input, negative

2 Not assigned

3 Not assigned

4 Microphone output, negative

5 Telephone audio input signal left, negative

6 Telephone audio input signal right, negative

7 Microphone input, positive

8 Not assigned

9 Microphone output, positive

10 Telephone mute (mute switch for radio)

11 Telephone audio input signal left, positive

12 Telephone audio input signal right, positive


Connector 5 (12-pin) CD changer control and CD audio input signals (#4 in pic)

1 AUX signal input, left

2 AUX signal earth

3 CD changer, audio signal earth

4 CD changer, voltage supply, positive, terminal 30, contact continuous load greater than 1A, temporary peak load 5A

5 Not assigned

6 CD changer, DATA OUT (data exchange for CD changer control from radio navigation system to CD changer)

7 AUX signal input, right

8 CD changer, left audio channel, CD/L

9 CD changer, right audio channel, CD/R

10 CD changer, control line, switched positive

11 CD changer, DATA IN (data exchange for CD changer control from CD changer to radio navigation system)

12 CD changer, CLOCK (internal check protocol for data flow monitoring)


Connector 6 (8-pin) CAN (NOTE: this is unique to the RNS-810)

1 Terminal 30, positive

2 CAN high

3 CAN low

4 Terminal 31, negative

5

6

7

8





Connector 7 (26-pin) Audio and video

1 Reserved for Debug RX protocol

2 Reserved for Debug TX protocol

3 Not assigned

4 Negative

5 Video signal output LF, right

6 Video signal output, screening earth

7 Video signal output, vertical and horizontal synchronization

8 Video signal output, green

9 Not assigned

10 Video signal input LF, right

11 Video signal input, screening earth

12 Video signal input, vertical and horizontal synchronization

13 Video signal input, green

14 Not assigned

15 Not assigned

16 Not assigned

17 Video signal output LF, negative

18 Video signal output LF, left

19 Video signal output, RGBS, negative

20 Video signal output, blue

21 Video signal output, red

22 Video signal input LF, negative

23 Video signal input LF, left

24 Video signal input, RGBS, negative

25 Video signal input, blue

26 Video signal input, red





Connector 8 (Aerial, FM) Aerial connectors

1 AM and FM radio reception aerial connector, double Fakra, no coding, impedance 50 ohms (cream-white color)

2 FM 2 radio reception aerial connector, double Fakra, coding B, impedance 50 ohms, cream-white color

Connector 9 (Aerial, Nav)

3 Navigation aerial connector, double Fakra, coding C, impedance 50 ohms, blue color

[OEMplus.com]

Great detail, thanks CL! We're working through these same issues and this should help us get a jump on making the adapter harnesses...

[Realist42]

Interesting!



We'll have to see if the suspension controls work... didn't those migrate to the binnacle screen... which they can't on our older software.

Hi,
Not as active here as I have been, so I might be a little late with this. The suspension controls stay in the central display unit, it is only the TPMS and other onboard computer data that moves to the driver binnacle display. Suspect that this retor fit will be tricky do to without changing the binnacle as well as this is now where all the setup function for the car resides. I am perping a post on my car and what I have found... Just need more time to write it up (and our new car is in the shop anyway)
An ambitious and interesting project nevertheless.

Regards,

J

[Auzivision]

The fiber optic I believe is for the CD based nav system (I had mine replaced)... my guess is the new one is DVD based.

This is the neatest Phaeton development in a long time... Good luck with this venture!

[Realist42]

The fiber optic I believe is for the CD based nav system (I had mine replaced)... my guess is the new one is DVD based.

This is the neatest Phaeton development in a long time... Good luck with this venture!

Yes and no, Nav info is delivered on DVD, system then loads it onto internal HD, leaving DVD slot (internal in the unit) free for DVD movie.

Regards,

J

[Itzmann]

This is a great thread to hold both the RNS-810 pinouts and the J523 pinouts so that OEMpl.us or someone else can make the wire which would allow the exchange of these units.

Here are the pinouts for J523:

T32C (the green connector)


The DIN standard VW audio connectors next to the fuse on the lower right hand side:


The overall view of the back of J523

[OEMplus.com]

We have the unit in and it's working (so far). We get the navigation functions, radio, button illumination, etc., but the climate controls do not work yet.

We cannot code these units very well, as there is no good data on them. If there is anyone out there in EU-land with this RNS-810 installed from the factory, I would love to get:
- Climatronic Coding
- Radio Coding
- Your VIN to confirm the wiring schematic

[CLMims]

For the climate controller, have you tried connecting the CAN LK and CAN HK from the Green plug (T32 #16 and #32) to the new Connector 6 on the RNS-810?

• 2004 J523 Connector 6 ( 8-pin ) #07 - Terminal 30 [+]............2008+ RNS-810 Connector 6 (8-pin) #01 Terminal 30 [+]
• 2004 J523 Connector 1 (32-pin) #16 - CAN high, comfort........2008+ RNS-810 Connector 6 (8-pin) #02 CAN high
• 2004 J523 Connector 1 (32-pin) #32 - CAN low, comfort.........2008+ RNS-810 Connector 6 (8-pin) #03 CAN low
• 2004 J523 Connector 6 ( 8-pin ) #08 - Terminal 31 [-].............2008+ RNS-810 Connector 6 (8-pin) #04 Terminal 31 [-]

Also, I wonder if the RNS-510 radio coding might be similar (since the 810 seems to be a lot like the 510); I'll check out on Ross-tech to see what I can find...

[cai]

Whatever happened to this project? Was it successful?

cai

[cai]

bump

[vinyin]

Bump

[OEMplus.com]

It was successful to a point. We are able to get the navigation system working, but the climate control system does not play nicely with the other components.

Our test car is n/a at the moment, so we're waiting for another vehicle to continue our R&D...

[gekon111a]

Could your precise waht stopped the instalaton of RNS810?
Recently I have seen RNS810 that was foulty in Phaeton 2009 and clima option was out order (no display of temp and no light at the indicator of the air flow. After replacement of RNS810 all mentioned options have started again.
To be sure that your RNS810 is full operating, it make sense to check it in the model 2009-2010 if you have such a chance.

[WillemBal]

Okay, we have pricing on the unit. Everyone sitting down? $8600 just for the head unit...

I just contacted a guy from THIS COMPANY, which is offering it for just 1850 Euro including VAT (2553 US$). The website is from a company in my country, so it in the Dutch language. South Africans should be able to read it
I asked him a lot of questions, more specifically whether all functionality is conserved and improved, etc. etc. He is going to find this out and will call me back later. Hope it is not just a dream to have a fully functional upgrade looking like this:



Is there anything specific that I need to ask the sales guy of this company? I already asked him about CAN-bus compatibility and module compatibility.

Willem

[PanEuropean]

Willem:

Honest to God, I think it is a dream.

I recall talking with the electronics engineers at Dresden about this same subject 3 years ago, even before this new nav system was released. Huge changes were made to the networking in the car with the 2008 MY refresh, not to mention that the controllers that this head unit controls (sound, navigation, HVAC, central electrical, amongst others) were also changed.

I hate to sound like a pessimist, but I don't think there is even faint hope of retrofitting this head unit. Functionally, it is too different from the previous unit, and it is improbable that it will 'match fields' with subordinate controllers when commands are entered. The issue is not the navigation or the sound, it is interaction with other controllers that the driver controls via this head unit.

Michael