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    Thread: Upgrading Phaeton Navi to new RNS 810

    1. Member
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      07-16-2010 08:56 AM #26
      This is a great thread to hold both the RNS-810 pinouts and the J523 pinouts so that OEMpl.us or someone else can make the wire which would allow the exchange of these units.

      Here are the pinouts for J523:

      T32C (the green connector)


      The DIN standard VW audio connectors next to the fuse on the lower right hand side:


      The overall view of the back of J523

    2. Banner Advertiser OEMplus.com's Avatar
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      07-16-2010 07:51 PM #27
      We have the unit in and it's working (so far). We get the navigation functions, radio, button illumination, etc., but the climate controls do not work yet.

      We cannot code these units very well, as there is no good data on them. If there is anyone out there in EU-land with this RNS-810 installed from the factory, I would love to get:
      - Climatronic Coding
      - Radio Coding
      - Your VIN to confirm the wiring schematic


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      07-16-2010 09:40 PM #28
      For the climate controller, have you tried connecting the CAN LK and CAN HK from the Green plug (T32 #16 and #32) to the new Connector 6 on the RNS-810?


      • 2004 J523 Connector 6 ( 8-pin ) #07 - Terminal 30 [+]............2008+ RNS-810 Connector 6 (8-pin) #01 Terminal 30 [+]
      • 2004 J523 Connector 1 (32-pin) #16 - CAN high, comfort........2008+ RNS-810 Connector 6 (8-pin) #02 CAN high
      • 2004 J523 Connector 1 (32-pin) #32 - CAN low, comfort.........2008+ RNS-810 Connector 6 (8-pin) #03 CAN low
      • 2004 J523 Connector 6 ( 8-pin ) #08 - Terminal 31 [-].............2008+ RNS-810 Connector 6 (8-pin) #04 Terminal 31 [-]



      Also, I wonder if the RNS-510 radio coding might be similar (since the 810 seems to be a lot like the 510); I'll check out on Ross-tech to see what I can find...
      Last edited by CLMims; 07-16-2010 at 09:46 PM.

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      07-29-2010 10:16 AM #29
      Whatever happened to this project? Was it successful?

      cai

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      08-05-2010 03:43 PM #30
      bump

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      09-01-2010 12:10 PM #31
      Bump

    7. Banner Advertiser OEMplus.com's Avatar
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      09-02-2010 11:43 AM #32
      It was successful to a point. We are able to get the navigation system working, but the climate control system does not play nicely with the other components.

      Our test car is n/a at the moment, so we're waiting for another vehicle to continue our R&D...

    8. Junior Member
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      09-05-2010 09:51 AM #33
      Could your precise waht stopped the instalaton of RNS810?
      Recently I have seen RNS810 that was foulty in Phaeton 2009 and clima option was out order (no display of temp and no light at the indicator of the air flow. After replacement of RNS810 all mentioned options have started again.
      To be sure that your RNS810 is full operating, it make sense to check it in the model 2009-2010 if you have such a chance.

    9. Member WillemBal's Avatar
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      02-04-2011 05:24 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by OEMplus.com View Post
      Okay, we have pricing on the unit. Everyone sitting down? $8600 just for the head unit...
      I just contacted a guy from THIS COMPANY, which is offering it for just 1850 Euro including VAT (2553 US$). The website is from a company in my country, so it in the Dutch language. South Africans should be able to read it
      I asked him a lot of questions, more specifically whether all functionality is conserved and improved, etc. etc. He is going to find this out and will call me back later. Hope it is not just a dream to have a fully functional upgrade looking like this:



      Is there anything specific that I need to ask the sales guy of this company? I already asked him about CAN-bus compatibility and module compatibility.

      Willem
      Last edited by WillemBal; 02-04-2011 at 05:27 AM.

    10. Senior Member PanEuropean's Avatar
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      02-04-2011 08:30 AM #35
      Willem:

      Honest to God, I think it is a dream.

      I recall talking with the electronics engineers at Dresden about this same subject 3 years ago, even before this new nav system was released. Huge changes were made to the networking in the car with the 2008 MY refresh, not to mention that the controllers that this head unit controls (sound, navigation, HVAC, central electrical, amongst others) were also changed.

      I hate to sound like a pessimist, but I don't think there is even faint hope of retrofitting this head unit. Functionally, it is too different from the previous unit, and it is improbable that it will 'match fields' with subordinate controllers when commands are entered. The issue is not the navigation or the sound, it is interaction with other controllers that the driver controls via this head unit.

      Michael

    11. Member Theresias's Avatar
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      02-11-2011 08:29 PM #36
      I agree with Michael here, at best it's going to be a quite expensive project.

      Basically the RNS810 is a Super-RNS510 and thats where the trouble starts. The early Phaetons up to MY 2006 used a CAN Databus Version TP 1.6 and with MY 2007 they switched to TP 2.0. Technically an RNS510 can be made partly work with TP 1.6 with an adapter which translates the messages/signals but it will never have 100% functionality.

      Some of the information from the radio/nav gets displayed in the instrument cluster and while earlier models used a Display Data Protocol (DDP) on top of CAN (TP 1.6 as well as 2.0), the newer model years switched to the new Operating and Display Protocol (BAP). Needless to say that the two don't mix well... So the RNS510 can be switched between DDP and BAP but the RNS810 was never sold with DDP to begin with so I would not count on the possibility that it can be switched.

      So even if you get all the mechanical parts sorted, adding a RNS810 to a US Phaeton (< MY 2006) would be everything else than easy. Some basics from the RNS510 (Touareg) retrofits may apply but I would still consider this whole topic highly experimental at best. So unless sb. has a spare Phaeton and a couple of grand to give this a shot I'd advice against it.
      Last edited by Theresias; 02-11-2011 at 08:32 PM.

    12. Moderator ruddyone's Avatar
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      02-11-2011 11:31 PM #37
      I thought I remember reading the OEMPlus was trying this. I'll search around for the thread and if I find it I'll update this post.

      Nate

      And here it is----

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...trofit-RNS-810

      Looks like they were getting pretty close.

      Best Regards,

      Nate

      Nate - I merged the two threads together after you made the above post, the link you provided above now points to this thread. Michael
      Last edited by PanEuropean; 02-12-2011 at 02:15 AM. Reason: to add note about threads being merged
      No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try.

    13. Senior Member PanEuropean's Avatar
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      02-12-2011 02:11 AM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by ruddyone View Post
      Looks like they were getting pretty close...
      Close only counts with horseshoes and grenades.

      I think the fact that that thread died a quiet death, and we have not seen any advertisements on the OEM Plus website for a J523 (Front Information Display and Control Unit) upgrade/retrofit says it all - the project won't work, at least, not at a price that is less than the value of the car.

      Michael

    14. Member WillemBal's Avatar
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      02-13-2011 10:22 AM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by Theresias View Post
      I agree with Michael here, at best it's going to be a quite expensive project.
      Theresias, this is absolutely true, for the first one. The first person to make this happen probably needs to make (design) a protocol converter in addition to a cable harness. Then he can make it available to a lot of other Phaeton owners by creating a retrofit kit with detailed DIY instructions. Seems like a good business to me.

      Quote Originally Posted by Theresias View Post
      Basically the RNS810 is a Super-RNS510 and thats where the trouble starts. The early Phaetons up to MY 2006 used a CAN Databus Version TP 1.6 and with MY 2007 they switched to TP 2.0. Technically an RNS510 can be made partly work with TP 1.6 with an adapter which translates the messages/signals but it will never have 100% functionality.
      It is a bit strange to read that the 2003-2006 Phaeton is using CAN controllers based on the 1.6 since CAN 2.0 was already published back in 1991. Perhaps you are referring to CAN 2.0A (11-bit) and CAN 2.0B which is 29-bit?

      Quote Originally Posted by Theresias View Post
      the newer model years switched to the new Operating and Display Protocol (BAP). Needless to say that the two don't mix well... So the RNS510 can be switched between DDP and BAP but the RNS810 was never sold with DDP to begin with so I would not count on the possibility that it can be switched.
      True, but since BAP just uses other (standardized) codes to control specific items in a vehicle - i.e. control of the HAVC - it seems to me just a matter of code conversion. Protocol converters exist throughout the industry just like RS232-USB converters are available for consumers electronics. The biggest problem seems to be that the BAP code is kept proprietary for the moment.

      Quote Originally Posted by Theresias View Post
      .... but I would still consider this whole topic highly experimental at best. So unless sb. has a spare Phaeton and a couple of grand to give this a shot I'd advice against it.
      Uhhhh, some dudes see this as a great challenge to create something that is highly beneficial for a lot of 2003-2006 Phaeton owners who are currently missing the benefits of Bluetooth, Google assisted navigation, HD storage capability etc.

      Willem

    15. Member Theresias's Avatar
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      02-13-2011 10:31 AM #40
      Nah, VW/Audi still uses TP 1.6 - even in 2010 models.

      Had my fair share of challenges in this context - was probably one of the first putting Golf/Jetta MK4 clusters into a MK3, but things change and back in the day the most work was mechanical/electrical. These days you gotta have a software engineer and the proper access to normally proprietary information to make things like this happen.

    16. Member WillemBal's Avatar
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      02-13-2011 10:59 AM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by Theresias View Post
      These days you gotta have a software engineer and the proper access to normally proprietary information to make things like this happen.
      Absolutely true. I couldn't find any documentation on the latest Phaeton models (>2006). And the repair manual for the

    17. n00b
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      04-20-2011 07:56 PM #42
      Hi Willem, did you got any wiser from the shop that offered the set in Holland? some advertisers claim, that it's just a swapping issue. lets communicate in dutch directly, just google my name.

      of course, if i know more, i let the forum know.

    18. Moderator Prince Ludwig's Avatar
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      04-21-2011 10:25 AM #43
      Although I haven't checked in detail, I would imagine that the sellers who say it's just plug-and-play probably don't have particularly robust returns policies...

      Harry

    19. Member WillemBal's Avatar
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      04-21-2011 06:15 PM #44
      Hello Jean Pierre… welcome to the Phaeton forum.
      I’ve been calling and writing with some dudes and companies who offer the RNS 810 as update for the Phaeton. None of them seems to know the answers to my questions, of which the main one is whether it will work on a Phaeton with MY 2004 control head installed. Or they don’t call back, or don’t respond to my e-mails. Just type in “RNS 810” in the search field of Marktplaats.nl and you will find a Belgian offer for the update for just 749 Euro.
      To be honest, I wouldn’t offer my P to them to install the new head before they give me a solid proof that they have a solution which works. On the other hand, I’m quite happy with the classic control head as it is. I’m audiophile and I like the CD quality and the digital sound (even though two bass speakers are blown). I have the antique car kit with handset, but I love its simple operation, its crystal clear conversation quality, and flawless reception which even persists in tunnels. I use a Duo card from Vodafone and simply switch my smart phone to “flight mode” as soon as I enter the P. It is just the navigation which I find grossly outdated. My wife calls it “OM OM” (Dutch for detour-detour) and would love to have the Google assisted nav as on the smart phone.
      For a successful modification/retrofit, there are various technical issues, of which some need extensive efforts and then I mean weeks, if not months of work. Main issue is that I have poor documentation about the wiring, signal levels and functioning, the coding of the convenience CAN and knowledge about the way the various CAN buses are interlinked in the P. Not for the faint of heart. In addition, I haven’t got the faintest idea how the TFT of the instrument panel is driven, which could be direct from the control head or by means of its own firmware. In the latter case, the instrument panel must be replaced. Interesting in that respect is that there is a Dutch company which can make custom instrument panels fully digital based on a concept using 3 color TFT screens. For the moment, it is still a dream, as Michael wrote. You might as well consider purchasing a new(er) Phaeton with the new control head when you really fancy all new features. What counts for me is that I am driving a fully original, very luxurious and almost classic car which still puts a lot of modern cars in the shade. Apart from the Nav and its mileage, it is perfect.

      Regards,
      Willem

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      04-23-2011 10:01 AM #45
      Regarding the inadequacy of the Nav:

      On long trips, we use the Ph Nav with discs updated to 2010 (the BMW TeleAtlas discs). The main missing item here Stateside is evidently the traffic update.

      But since our long car trips always have at least a pilot and a copilot (my wife and myself), if traffic is a concern, the copilot can always do navigation duty by pulling out of the bag either an iPhone or an iPad with GPS, and get instant free traffic updates via the standard "Maps" app.

      This setup has served us well.

    21. Member EnglishPhaeton's Avatar
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      06-05-2011 06:24 PM #46
      Hi again,

      can anyone confirm the possibility of changing the CD SatNav unit for the DVD based version?

      Thanks
      Stu

    22. Senior Member PanEuropean's Avatar
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      06-05-2011 06:38 PM #47
      Impossible.

      The DVD navigation CD reader is not compatible with the large center display in the first iteration of the Phaeton.

      Michael

    23. Member EnglishPhaeton's Avatar
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      06-05-2011 06:45 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by PanEuropean View Post
      Impossible.

      The DVD navigation CD reader is not compatible with the large center display in the first iteration of the Phaeton.

      Michael
      Damn it,

      first you took so long to answer (at least ten minutes) and then you blow my plan clean out the water

      Thanks Michael
      Stu

    24. n00b
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      07-12-2011 05:55 PM #49
      Hello, please excuse my newness. I am in the UK and have just purchased a 2006 Phaeton. None of my local audio professionals can help me and Dension just sent an email saying that there were no Dension products available to link an iPod to the Phaeton due to a Technical reason. Here is a copy and paste of their response to my question of whether anything would fit.

      Dear Customer,
      We do not have for this car any car specific solution, on technical reason!

      If you want to use an iPhone, we offer you our new, universal solution,
      the Car Dock for iPhone.

      This is simply, clever, easy to minstall, and use, although fulfill
      nearly all the functionalities, you are looking for!

      More information here:
      http://www.dension.com/iPhone-car-ac...ock-for-iPhone ore here
      http://www.incarwebradio.com/?q=node/3

      Best regards
      Dension Support Team

      Anyhow, looking at the pinouts in the excellent posts in this thread, can anyone tell me if it is possible to simply connect an aux socket to pins 18, 19 and 20 to plug an ipod directly into it via the headphone jack?
      It'snot ideal, but in the UK, we appear to be clueless all round and Dension appear to only offer the suggestion that I sell my phone and get an iPhone and end up using FM modulation.

      I have read about the Ice link, should I just order one and know it will work?
      Getting the CD changer out isn't an issue as my local audio centre already did it once to take a look at the plug on the back.

      With best regards to all.

      Andy

    25. Senior Member PanEuropean's Avatar
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      07-13-2011 01:18 AM #50
      Hello Andy:

      Welcome to the forum!

      I'm not familiar with the product you refer to, however, I know that some owners of MY 2003 to 2006 Phaetons (the first generation) have fitted a product called a 'Solisto' to their car, and this has worked.

      There are numerous discussions about this general topic in the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category). I've posted direct links to some of them below.

      May I suggest you browse through these discussions, then post your question (again) onto the end of the discussion that you think is closest to the subject that you have raised? That will keep all the relevant information together in one place.

      Michael

      Retrofit iPod, XM Radio, or Sirius Radio Installation (includes wiring diagrams for phone retrofits)
      ....How to add an aftermarket XM radio or cell phone
      ....- integrating video display into the Phaeton infotainment system
      ....- integrating consumer electronics into the Phaeton sound system
      ....- iPod integration by way of FM modulation
      ....- iPod integration by way of 'Ice-Link' adapter
      ....- iPod integration by way of replacing CD player

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