8V ABA/JH/ MSnS FrankenTurbo Build

[punchbug]

aka "The Extensive Rad Fan Clocking". Obviously I uploaded these when I had access to some speed!!!

This is a continuation of the build in this archived thread, but now we'll add boost:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3322625

Without boost, it was good for 110Hp to the wheels, and was very fun to drive. But boost was the goal and boost it must be. I took the car up to my friend's place in November 2007, and he's a great fabricator with considerable turbo experience. I really owe him bigtime!! This was taken New year's Eve, a "before" picture:

The turbo was donated by a 1.6TD, and surprise surprise, there was soot! (the manifold needed tapping for the EGT probe too):

The car got jacked up, leading to "extreme angle duckie":

Exhaust got ripped off, to be replaced by a TT 2.5"/Borla setup:

Drew's 77 "Inga" is the sexy model for this piping, it'll be her turn next perhaps ?:

Of course, the stock 4K had to come off:

Grip is nice too:

Stock diff? Outta there!

I headed for Ohio in February to do some powder coating on the case (makes sense, it's winter, may as well drive 7 hours... ):

Back home to get the gearbox assembled by the neighbour :

Obligatory shot of new parts in packages, and dead stuff in a tub:

The finished gearbox...SO pretty!

Up and in:

Drew spent a lot of time modding the integrated wastegate to go at less than 11 psi of boost. That level would have been disastrous with those RD pistons (10:1 CR). This bench tested at about 6 psi after assembly with an additional "collar" of metal added (not pictured here) Anyway, this is what a wastegate looks like inside:

New oil pump gets put in, and we'll need an oil pan that accepts an oil return line:

In between trips North, I did a few things, like had the seats recovered:

And chopped a chunk out of the bracing on the good stock hood. It'll go on once the car comes home, but clearance is needed for that sexy intake manifold:

Sending this in case of connection failure...more in a minute or five.

Okay, back at it! Seems like this car has been in the air for a while!:

Now on the the plumbing. The intercooler was from an A3 TD, and IC piping was a blend of Canadian Tire exhaust pipes, silicon bends, and even a bit of my Bug's ex-exhaust. Intake air passes through a TD airbx which rests on the PS where the washer bottle was. Lots of welding and grinding too:

The fuel fliter got relocated out of the engine bay to a spot under the car, and the battery was already in the trunk. This cleared up space for IC plumbing too.

So....now it's May. Time to test drive this thing. Since the injectors had been upgraded from 210s to 305s, MS needed to be informed, and otherwise we used the fuel and spark map I'd driven the car up on. (Dan had tweaked it though, knowing what we were up to.)

Initial trips were really enjoyable. Boost built as we'd expected, EGTs were fine, as were AFRs, etc. No detonation, all seemed good and the car felt strong and smooth. Until "the noise". So Cincy was a no go for this car. I scurried hime and got a gearbox rebuilt and mounted up on the 16V for that trip instead. Luckily, (since the silver car had eaten a number of her gears), I had that nice 4K to use.... My neighbour the tranny rebuilder loves me.

Anyway, we did a post mortem after Cincy in June. Compression confirmed what we'd expected, with readings of 90/165/90/165. Symmetrical enough, but not so good eh? Anyway, off with the head, but the valves seemed okay, next off were pistons, and number one was missing a good part of a ring land:

Of course, it also scored the cylinder wall, so the block was junk. I take complete blame for this, since I'd not recognized detonation soon enough, and had done damage from an ignition map that was way too advanced. Yeah, I'm an idiot.

So due to incompatible times available, and some purple distractions on my part, progress in the summer was slow. Drew located a suitable JH and I went up and painted it with some POR 15, but that was about it.

Anyway, things got rolling again in the fall, here's the pretty result. This time it's a real JH, with its lower CR pistons:

IN it went...:

And it ended up looking like this:

The ride home was actually relaxing; the sun was shining, and I'd opted to leave the map as it stood, since it was too rich and retarded, and that'd be safer than the other option.

As it was, the thing got a bit squirelly on boost, and i know there's a LOT more there to tune into. Which I'd refere to do a bit closer to home.

Anyway, again, thanks to Drew for all the hard work (and dare I say planning??) We'll see how it pans out, but the first three hours or so were great!

Modified by punchbug at 8:14 PM 11-2-2008

[motorlager]

NICE project! Can wait to see how this turns out

[gamblinfool]

Holy Sh!t, Cathy!! Lotsa goodies in there! Makes my setup look meager for sure! I wants moar pix of dem seats tho!!!

[zachste]

looks awesome can't wait for the rest of the pics. that trans turned out awesome!

[California 16v]

Great build

... very jealous, may have to see this one before Cincy

[jedilynne]

So does this mean that Klaus is up and running again?

[84SciroccoX-FLOW]

great looking car. i LOVE my 2.0t, it makes great power it our light sciroccos...too bad 4 me i still got my stock 4k lmao

[punchbug]

Quote, originally posted by jedilynne »

So does this mean that Klaus is up and running again?

It most certainly does! Hopefully I won't "tune him out of running"!! Hey Jedilynne, first, how the hell are ya, and second, IM me your new mailing addy!

[Lord_Verminaard]

Fantastical! Drew is quite the talented one. Looks great!!!

Brendan

[Neptuno]

I am so glad that the special "K" is home......
OH!!! and by the way thanks for the pics....many entrataining shots there, I guess you where visisting Julie?

Ok now to business....to things that we do not speak of....what typo of turbo is that Like is it a t3/t4.... or something like that. Oil cooled so forth and so on. Does it vooosh.......does it drive you crazy with joy?

[punchbug]

Quote, originally posted by Neptuno »

I am so glad that the special "K" is home...... OH!!! and by the way thanks for the pics....many entrataining shots there, I guess you where visisting Julie? Ok now to business....to things that we do not speak of....what typo of turbo is that Like is it a t3/t4.... or something like that. Oil cooled so forth and so on. Does it vooosh.......does it drive you crazy with joy?

K24. There is a whistling about it, yes...And crazy with joy? yep! Or maybe just crazy... I'm just happy I beat the salt. That was the main concern this season. How about tears of joy? Yeah, her silver sister is weeping those, she was so happy to see him, she started dripping what appears to be gear oil

[DrugsMakeMeCool]

Holy smokes! Very nice Mk1.

[Neptuno]

are k24's oil cooled? I am ingnorant and I am in much need of schooling in this department

[scirocco*joe]

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Frankenstein builds!

Cathy, I'm so happy your boy is home. Now, can you please conspire with Iroczgirl in the PNW to get me a MK1, PRONTO!

Seriously, congrats on getting Klausie back before the salt hits...

[punchbug]

Quote, originally posted by Neptuno »

are k24's oil cooled? I am ingnorant and I am in much need of schooling in this department

There's an oil feed line that comes off the flange at the front of the block under pressure, and an oil return line that dumps it back into the oil pan. Oil temps seem to rise when you get on it...oddly enough! ;D

[Neptuno]

Quote, originally posted by punchbug »

There's an oil feed line that comes off the flange at the front of the block under pressure, and an oil return line that dumps it back into the oil pan. Oil temps seem to rise when you get on it...oddly enough! ;D

Only like 4.5 hours to you right? Canadian weekend......

[punchbug]

Five hours is a Canadian weekend for sure. Summer weekends can be longer drives tho... At this point in time, I'm looking at wrapping them up for winter and hoping that my aging daily gets me through without too many hassles. Not optimistic...but it's also an 8VT so that makes it back on topic, right?

[vwdaun]

Quote, originally posted by punchbug »

How about tears of joy? Yeah, her silver sister is weeping those, she was so happy to see him, she started dripping what appears to be gear oil

I literally laughed into a coughing fit over that statement. That is just SOO typical

Congrats on having Klausie back home, that really is an awesome (if slightly early) b-day present!

So now that I'm back in the country, look for an e-mail....

[punchbug]

Quote, originally posted by vwdaun »

I literally laughed into a coughing fit over that statement. That is just SOO typical Congrats on having Klausie back home, that really is an awesome (if slightly early) b-day present! So now that I'm back in the country, look for an e-mail....

Heck, do I owe you one? And I noticed I got Klausie's gender messed up...must be that new female engine...another Carrots castoff I think. SO fire me one off and I will reply! And it's pretty sweet in my garage right now, I have such a great family

[sciroccojim]

Ahh, that lovely whistle....and the nice feel that goes with it.

Just wondering: did anyone suggest you install the drain higher than the pan; in the block, for example?

Callaway is/was pretty adamant about the oil drain being above the level of oil in the pan at all times. They claim that the cappuccino-like froth that drains from the turbo won't drain properly if it's trying to drain into the oil and backup/smoking will result.

[Corrado1900T]

Very true Jim. The cheaper kits tend to just put a drain somewhere in the pan. If you want it right it should drain above the pan or oil level just so that there is no back up.

[punchbug]

It's all stock VW stuff, not aftermarket. (you can see where it is in the picture actualy, it's fairly high up on the pan) Of course the original application was diesel, but I can't imagine oil drain flow would be much different in a gasser. Though the higher rpms may froth it up a bit more I suppose. It surived the three hours home at least, that's about all I can say for it at this point eh?

And what are you guys seeing for oil temps, just curious about what is "normal".


Modified by punchbug at 4:51 PM 11-5-2008

[Neptuno]

we need more updates or maybe it is more like "I"

[punchbug]

Well, the update is this. It's January. I have done no tuning at all due to other more pressing issues when I was driving, namely my shaky Dell laptop turning itself off every time there was a dip in power (because Dell laptop batteries are useless dead weight and a potential fire hazard) ; coupled with the loose alternator belt that provided an ever dipping charge on the last trip (so the laptop kept shutting off). It's "minus colder than a witch's you know what " here, so tuning will wait anyway. Plus there's that whole road salt issue.

[EL DRIFTO]

i've studied the oil drain issue
it doesn't matter where you dump it into the oil pan
the oe oil return on a euro turbo VR is in the block
cause the drive shaft is in the way on the pan
if you ever find a failure from this particular "drain too low" problem
PLEASE let me know, cause i haven't heard of one yet...
Corky Bell, a FI guru, goes right into the pan

the oil temp issue is another i've studied a bit
considering that the hottest water under the hood
(coming out of the head after boost)
is what's being fed into the oil temp stabilizer...
most get an aftermarket oil cooler
it's red on the gauge & failing @ 145C
this is a problem for detonation, since the bottom of some pistons/combustiln chambers are cooled by oil squirters

i'm using a different coolant outlet from the block on my VR than stock
the VR uses a freeze plug tap & gets hot water HALF way across the block, so theoretically, it's not as hot as you can find under the ho0d

anyway, there's a freeze plug right next to the water pump on the vr
i'm tapping that one, it's not running yet but i expect oil temps 15 degrees C cooler

if i were blowing in a 4cyl again, i'd drill & tap the top side of the water pump for the coldest water under the hood being forced through "stabilizer"
never got a chance to try it b4 i went vrt

very nice work

[gamblinfool]

Got a question, Cathy - how did you address the different sized holes between the head and the block for the main old galley? Did you weld it narrower or bolt it up and hope? (which what I was probably gonna do! )

Has it been dyno'd yet?

[83mk2scirocco]

I need to get a job so I can,do some work to my dubbs.
That's awsome Keep showing your skill's

[twardnw]

gah, all these motor build threads coming up, I really should get on building my ABA

[punchbug]

LOL, I saw this pop up and thought "Cool, somebody's building something like my build", then realized it was my thread, back from the dead. LOL. Gotta colour those blonde roots...time to add a few updates anyway. So far so good.

Quote, originally posted by gamblinfool »

Got a question, Cathy - how did you address the different sized holes between the head and the block for the main old galley? Did you weld it narrower or bolt it up and hope? (which what I was probably gonna do! )

This batlike creature here?

Yeah, aluminum welded, then the head got resurfaced. One of the more expensive bits of the build actually. (it's buried in the archived thread in the OP). You have to block it somehow since it overhangs the block and would make a nice oil waterfall for about four Litres worth, then temps would make it more volcano like I imagine. I talked to one guy who JBWelded it, but I'm not that trusting.

Quote, originally posted by gamblinfool »

Has it been dyno'd yet?

Yeppers!

This was on 7 lbs of boost, and I could bump the wastegate up to 11 or so if I wanted to, but I'll enjoy it as it is for the time being. It was very nice looking across at hubby here at the end of the quarter, and mine is just a longer wastegate bolt from being faster.

After that weekend (dyno/track) the car was making the oh-so-familiar EEEEeeEEeee---ee-------EEE-----eeeeee sound, and upon checking, there were no cats fighting so I knew it was my alternator belt. I got 16VChris (or whatever Mr Canfield's screen name is) help me out tightening it (it's a two person job), and we discovered that the bracket had sheared off the head (along with a hunk of the head, nothing critical unless you wanted to mount up an alternator bracket) . So the car got parked till I could get to sorting out a solution for that.

I looked at other radiators/intercoolers, serpentine belt setups and considered swapping out the head (but I have money in this one) and while I was at the wreckers looking at small rads (the Fox won there, BTW) I found a bracket from who-knows-what on the ground and figured I could modify it to work, maybe. The issue was clearances around the upper ear on the head. Items that were too close for comfort included the timing belt, number one spark plug wire, the fuel rail assembly and the rad to the front. Not that I needed any of that stuff. Here's the bracket installed on the upper ear of the head:

This is a view of the bolt-up taken standing at the PS fender. Note the Phillips head M8 bolt has been pinned so it doesn't end up in a bad place if it ever backs out.

Not sure how it will pan out, but I have a few quarter miles on it

It's a full half second faster than hubby's new MazdaSpeed3 at any rate, and the season's over so I can rub that in all winter. Of course his car will be off the break-in map by then, so that won't last.

Modified by punchbug at 5:43 PM 10-22-2009


Modified by punchbug at 5:46 PM 10-22-2009

[Rocco_julie]

Tell you what....
Want me to put him back in his place in the spring?
Hehehe.

Well once I have a new clutch

[punchbug]

Quote, originally posted by Rocco_julie »

Tell you what.... Want me to put him back in his place in the spring? Hehehe. Well once I have a new clutch

Who, Denny or Klaus? Either way, bring it girlfriend....

[Patter$on]

Quote, originally posted by Rocco_julie »

Tell you what.... Want me to put him back in his place in the spring? Hehehe. Well once I have a new clutch

Do you plan on firing End Caps at him?

[Paul@VWvortex]