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    Thread: shift light

    1. Member
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      11-02-2008 11:49 PM #1
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmRe2nQElSE

      just curious to how this could be done? I know the earlier stock models came with them, but they were far from accurate if they worked. Ive never seen this before, but it seems to have some type of control module for it. Any ideas?


    2. Member Rannoch's Avatar
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      11-03-2008 02:13 AM #2
      Build something to read the voltage from the tach?
      Strip the upshift indicator from an earlier cluster?
      Build a custom tach like this one: http://www.tach.rexlantz.com/ and use it's LED driven single shift light.

      I dunno.


    3. 11-03-2008 10:54 AM #3
      Quote, originally posted by Rannoch »
      Build something to read the voltage from the tach?
      Strip the upshift indicator from an earlier cluster?
      Build a custom tach like this one: http://www.tach.rexlantz.com/ and use it's LED driven single shift light.

      I dunno.

      Another option would be to buy a stand alone LED shift light, pull it apart and stick it in there.


    4. Member JonnyPhenomenon's Avatar
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      11-03-2008 12:46 PM #4
      wow! thats a cool idea!

      of course, I think I would want a kill switch for it, since the bright lights would probably get annoying.

      I could design that. the cluster already has room in it for that with the long row of dummy LEDs.

      the circuit itself would be really simple. when I get some free time Ill build one and write a DIY for it.


      www.rikerstardresser.com - I'm a donor, are you? - www.marrow.org

    5. 11-03-2008 02:15 PM #5
      Quote, originally posted by JonnyPhenomenon »
      wow! thats a cool idea!

      of course, I think I would want a kill switch for it, since the bright lights would probably get annoying.

      I could design that. the cluster already has room in it for that with the long row of dummy LEDs.

      the circuit itself would be really simple. when I get some free time Ill build one and write a DIY for it.


      You do this and let me know what size plastic housing you want to make it fit!!! I was going to do a little sign face with 16V or somthing that would light up knocking some fo the brightness down and adding a personalized touch. You want VW or SCIROCCO or what ever on yours let me know on that also!


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      11-03-2008 02:22 PM #6
      sounds like a plan Just for thought, I dont think a kill switch would be worth it for whatever setup he had. The stock one usually turns on around 2000rpm. whatever that guy had started at about 6000 and only started getting brighter as he went deeper into redline. but if you can build one

    7. 11-03-2008 05:12 PM #7
      Oh and it would help if it was adjustable, being able to set when it comes on and all that.

    8. Member JonnyPhenomenon's Avatar
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      11-03-2008 05:21 PM #8
      I can build that. the circuit is easy. in fact, I already have the diagram for a comparable circruit. it would just take some adjustment of a couple resistors to adapt to the signal coming from the tach.

      all you need is a LM3914 LED driver chip, and a voltage regulator. then 4 yellow Leds and a red one. you put a pot on the ref out of the chip (basically the common ground for your leds) and you can adjust your brightness with that, or use individual resisors with each led to set the brightness individually.

      Ive seen this type of circuit used in home brew 02 sensors too.

      the cluster in the video has this installed in the 5 dummy LEDs in the cluster, right under all the actual warning leds. that makes for a really easy install, and it would look pretty damned stock too. those dummy leds come right out too. as soon as I get a free moment, I will whip one of these up and write up a nice how to. - I just got a new camera (thanks Josh) so my pics will be a lot nicer than they have been in the past.

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    9. Member RoccoRacer's Avatar
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      11-03-2008 05:29 PM #9
      sweet...I would probably do this if you guys come up with the schematic. I'm in a circuits class right now, and I hate the stuff, but when it comes to my car, current and voltage are a necessary evil.
      Ben
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    10. 11-03-2008 05:54 PM #10
      Quote, originally posted by JonnyPhenomenon »
      wow! thats a cool idea!

      Agreed...

      I've assigned it project #438... I'm currently on #27

      -RGK


    11. Member kamzcab86's Avatar
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      11-03-2008 05:58 PM #11
      Quote, originally posted by TooClutchVW »
      I know the earlier stock models came with them, but they were far from accurate if they worked.

      The stock shift lights were purely for fuel economy, not for performance; they are indeed accurate if you're concerned about mpg's.

      The shift light (lights?) in the video is pretty cool though!

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    12. Member Rannoch's Avatar
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      11-03-2008 06:59 PM #12
      I'm almost glad I broke my cluster. Everything BUT the shift light works.

    13. 11-04-2008 04:10 AM #13
      I know the 87 16v had a shift light on the top center, but did the 88 16v have a shift light at all?

    14. Member TheTimob's Avatar
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      11-04-2008 11:30 AM #14
      It's really easy to do if you have megasquirt!

      I don't think I'd do it in my car though. I shift by the sound of the motor, and I tend to watch the road and not the cluster. In fact, I have a soft limiter set at 6000 rpms, and a hard limit at 6500, becuase in my stock 8v, there's no reason to go that high!


    15. Member JonnyPhenomenon's Avatar
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      11-04-2008 01:16 PM #15
      thanks to my transmission being geared so low in my 16v I regularly hit the rev limiter. especially in 1st and 2nd.

      check out the specs on this chip here
      http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM3914.html

      here is a quick mockup of the circuit required. its not complete, but it will give you an idea of how this works.

      the important thing is how do get the signal from the tach to the signal input on pin 5 in a useable form. it might be as simple as hooking it up the tach signal line coming into the cluster - (T7b/4 R/BK) - sort of like a dwell meter, but it could require a bit more finesse than that.

      the first step is go go hook up an analog volt meter to the pin 4 of the cluster connector T7b, and run the car to see what kind of signal you get there. since my engines in peices right now, someone else will have to do that for me.

      either way, I will work on this more later when I have some time.

      in the mean time open your bentleys to the Main wiring diagram pages and look at these pages for some light reading.
      97-2541 coil and ICU
      97-2544 tach + upshift control
      97-2552
      and under electronic engine controls for 16v rocco 87-88 page 4 of 4 (97-2367)

      have fun!

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    16. Member Rannoch's Avatar
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      11-04-2008 03:08 PM #16
      Quote, originally posted by DreamScirocco »
      I know the 87 16v had a shift light on the top center, but did the 88 16v have a shift light at all?

      My '88 doesn't have the shift light.


    17. Member JonnyPhenomenon's Avatar
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      11-04-2008 03:09 PM #17
      this could be rigged up to run bicolor diodes too, so first the lights would light up yellow, till it got to the middle, then they would turn red in succession... but they would need to be common anode bicolor red/yellow leds.. and I just spent an hour looking for some and couldnt find any....
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    18. Member JonnyPhenomenon's Avatar
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      11-04-2008 03:10 PM #18
      Quote, originally posted by Rannoch »

      My '88 doesn't have the shift light.

      doesnt have it? or it doesnt work?

      because they came with them in 88. if you dont have one, I am 95% sure your cluster has been replaced. probably the odometer crapped out and they just replaced it.

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    19. Member Neptuno's Avatar
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      11-04-2008 03:43 PM #19
      my 82 never had one but I know why


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    20. 11-04-2008 06:26 PM #20
      Quote, originally posted by DreamScirocco »
      I know the 87 16v had a shift light on the top center, but did the 88 16v have a shift light at all?

      Quote, originally posted by Rannoch »
      My '88 doesn't have the shift light.

      The 'upshift' light did not come on the '88 16V's. The 1988's came with a 2Y transmission that doe not have the proper 5 gear switch to support the up shift indicator.

      2Y/other style switch that does not supports Up Shift Indicator

      The 1987 and 1986.5's came with the AGB transmission (identical gearing to the 2Y) which has the multi-gear switch... same switch the 4K's use.

      AGB/4K/other style switch that supports Up Shift Indicator

      As stated above this is not a performance shift light but an upshift light for fuel economy... Based on Vacuum/RPM and current gear this light comes on when you can shift to the next higher gear and get better fuel economy.

      -Raffi


    21. 11-04-2008 06:36 PM #21
      Quote, originally posted by JonnyPhenomenon »

      the important thing is how do get the signal from the tach to the signal input on pin 5 in a useable form. it might be as simple as hooking it up the tach signal line coming into the cluster - (T7b/4 R/BK) - sort of like a dwell meter, but it could require a bit more finesse than that.

      the first step is go go hook up an analog volt meter to the pin 4 of the cluster connector T7b, and run the car to see what kind of signal you get there. since my engines in peices right now, someone else will have to do that for me.

      The part you should look into is an LM2917 Frequency to Voltage Converter... The signal at the tach is pulsed and this LM3914 is looking for DC levels... The LM2917 will take the pulsed input and give you a DC voltage as a function of RPM

      -Raffi


    22. Member JonnyPhenomenon's Avatar
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      11-05-2008 02:51 AM #22
      Quote, originally posted by EUROROC »
      The 'upshift' light did not come on the '88 16V's. The 1988's came with a 2Y transmission that doe not have the proper 5 gear switch to support the up shift indicator.

      The 1987 and 1986.5's came with the AGB transmission (identical gearing to the 2Y) which has the multi-gear switch... same switch the 4K's use.

      my 88 came stock with the AGB trans, the upshift indicator and the correct plug for the tranny...
      heres my dealer tag with the trans code right on it.

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    23. Member JonnyPhenomenon's Avatar
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      11-05-2008 03:18 AM #23
      Quote, originally posted by EUROROC »

      The part you should look into is an LM2917 Frequency to Voltage Converter... The signal at the tach is pulsed and this LM3914 is looking for DC levels... The LM2917 will take the pulsed input and give you a DC voltage as a function of RPM

      -Raffi

      good tip. Ill check that out. I cracked open one of my tachs tonight and I was looking into the same circuit it uses to convert the signal to voltage. it uses a SAK215 pulse shaper to convert the tach to a 0-2v dc voltage. I think this is an obsolete part tho. on the bright side, there is one in every tach....

      of course... you might be able to just piggy back on the signal going to the tach dial "motor"...

      www.rikerstardresser.com - I'm a donor, are you? - www.marrow.org

    24. 11-05-2008 05:00 AM #24
      Quote, originally posted by JonnyPhenomenon »

      my 88 came stock with the AGB trans, the upshift indicator and the correct plug for the tranny...

      I stand corrected... yours is one of the only (or only) 88 I've seen with an AGB,

      Just curious, what was the build date of your car?
      I'll bet it was early.

      -Raffi


    25. Member Rannoch's Avatar
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      11-05-2008 05:11 AM #25
      Quote, originally posted by JonnyPhenomenon »

      doesnt have it? or it doesnt work?

      because they came with them in 88. if you dont have one, I am 95% sure your cluster has been replaced. probably the odometer crapped out and they just replaced it.

      Doesn't have it. Came stock that way with the 2Y tranny. Odometer just crapped out actually, 169k on the clock.

      My 83 shift light doesn't work cause I broke the connector on the cluster.


    26. Member Zender's Avatar
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      11-05-2008 05:42 AM #26
      Quote, originally posted by EUROROC »

      .....As stated above this is not a performance shift light but an upshift light for fuel economy... Based on Vacuum/RPM and current gear this light comes on when you can shift to the next higher gear and get better fuel economy.

      -Raffi

      Raffi,

      I think "transmission switch" main purpose is to "turn off" the upshift indicator if your on 5th gear (there's no 6th gear to upshift to). I also have "modified" the upshift relay with a small potentiometer to "move" the OEM shift indicator to a higher point (not stuck to the 2000 RPM upshift point on the "OEM stock"). I don't have the bottom LED hooked-up, but the OEM upshift LED works flawless.


    27. Member JonnyPhenomenon's Avatar
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      11-05-2008 11:11 AM #27
      Quote, originally posted by EUROROC »

      I stand corrected... yours is one of the only (or only) 88 I've seen with an AGB,

      Just curious, what was the build date of your car?
      I'll bet it was early.

      -Raffi

      9/87 according to the sticker by the drivers side door latch.

      www.rikerstardresser.com - I'm a donor, are you? - www.marrow.org

    28. 11-05-2008 12:53 PM #28
      Quote, originally posted by Zender »

      Raffi,

      I think "transmission switch" main purpose is to "turn off" the upshift indicator if your on 5th gear (there's no 6th gear to upshift to). I also have "modified" the upshift relay with a small potentiometer to "move" the OEM shift indicator to a higher point (not stuck to the 2000 RPM upshift point on the "OEM stock"). I don't have the bottom LED hooked-up, but the OEM upshift LED works flawless.

      You are right and wrong... the switch does signal that the car is in 5th gear so it disables the upshift light... most of us don't have a 6th (sadly, including me). The light, on the other hand, does not come on at a fixed RPM. The upshift light also uses engine vacuum to determine when you should upshift. If yours is coming on at a fixed RPM then I would check the vacuum switch that is connected off the throttle body... it may be disconnected or defective. For example, it I am holding the throttle at 4K in 4th the light will come on. If I apply more throttle thus increasing manifold vacuum the light goes out. If I let off the throttle and go back to cruise (manifold vacuum drops) the light comes back on.


      Quote, originally posted by JonnyPhenomenon »

      9/87 according to the sticker by the drivers side door latch.

      As I suspected... your car is an early 1988

      -Raffi


    29. 11-05-2008 08:21 PM #29
      thats amazing major props to whoever pulls this off

    30. Member Zender's Avatar
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      11-05-2008 09:47 PM #30
      Quote, originally posted by EUROROC »

      ..... The light, on the other hand, does not come on at a fixed RPM. The upshift light also uses engine vacuum to determine when you should upshift. If yours is coming on at a fixed RPM then I would check the vacuum switch that is connected off the throttle body... it may be disconnected or defective. For example, it I am holding the throttle at 4K in 4th the light will come on. If I apply more throttle thus increasing manifold vacuum the light goes out. If I let off the throttle and go back to cruise (manifold vacuum drops) the light comes back on.
      ..

      This is true...The modifications I made with the "up-shift relay" included the bypassing both 5th gear switch and vacuum switch. Mines is purely RPM adjustable (just like the aftermarket shift lights, but lights up the OEM LED.....not vacuum triggered like OEM).


    31. 11-05-2008 09:59 PM #31
      yeah my 88 doesnt have an upshift light either. i hate the look of that thing there.

      the 88 clusters have the temp gauge where the upshift light is on older models.


    32. Member JonnyPhenomenon's Avatar
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      11-05-2008 11:39 PM #32
      yeah, mine doesnt have the upshift indicator either...

      ...anymore



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    33. 11-05-2008 11:55 PM #33
      i see what you did there. MFA unit?

    34. Member Zender's Avatar
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      11-06-2008 07:23 AM #34
      Quote, originally posted by JonnyPhenomenon »
      yeah, mine doesnt have the upshift indicator either...

      ...anymore


      It should be where the Water temp gauge area, and your water temp should be next to the gas level. Looks like VW was trying to save some $$$ It should look like this:


    35. 11-06-2008 09:31 AM #35
      Quote, originally posted by Zender »

      It should be where the Water temp gauge area, and your water temp should be next to the gas level. Looks like VW was trying to save some $$$ It should look like this:

      not on 88's it shouldnt. that was the difference on most 88 clusters. i actually like it better. that upshift light is hideous


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