02m vs APtuning 02j

[haenszel]

I'm at a crossing point where I need to buy a new clutch/flywheel again. Obviously this is going to be expensive and I'd rather not do it twice.

Now, i currently have an 02j w/peloquin in it, and i've been through 2 trans' already. I was debating about getting an APTuning gearset for it but I've also heard of those stripping gears. Estimated cost: $3500 w/new clutch, gearset, bearings/race's etc.

Other option woudl be to buy the clutch for an 02m, and go 02m w/diff. Then i'd have to convert to hydro clutch( ) and get some custom axles from DSS. Estimated cost: $3500 w/02m, hydro conversion, clutch/flyhweel, diff, and DSS Stg3 axles.

So both come out to $3500, however with the 02m I might be able to squeeze out DSS axles for the price(since they'd have to be custom anyways).

I'm sick of worrying about not being able to make it home each time I go to the track

Since this is the drag forum, who has some experience with either trans as far as longevity? I've heard horror stories about the APT gears, but not many common stories from the 02m's........ Input?

[.therealvrt]

my Aptuning are holding up so far with the latest fix. I am trapping 127-129 mph so they are holding good power

[turbodub]

o2m is damn tough!! but for a non mk4 car it can get pricey, because of the axels. however you shouldnt be running stock axels anyway! ive heard the ap gears breaking too! i think it really depends on how much torque youre car makes. i make pretty low torque and a decent amount of power and my trans is stock o2a gears, dss stage 5 axels, and clutchmasters twin disc clutch. i always run slicks, usually cut 1.7 60fts, and in no way baby the car and (knock on wood) havent damaged any gears all year.

[euroroccoT]

well i ran all year on 1 stock geared 02j with 500ft/lbs launching with slicks 1.6 60ft and running 10.2 at over 150mph but we broke 3rd last event of the year.

upgrading for sure next year but i have not made up my mind yet

[Vdubsolo]

Im also in this situation, I just blew my 3rd o2a.. and ofcourse on the street with low boost.. opposed to at the track with higher boost, slicks ect..

Wondering if the 02m is the way to go.. or the quaife 6spd gear set..

[XXX008XXX]

lil8v has put a O2M in a mk3, so he can shed some light on how to do it and what is needed. if i was you just run the O2J. much cheaper and just have the gears treasted. if you go on honda-tech, racerstev does them and its relativly cheap. this is the route i am going with.

[vr6chris]

im at this crossroads as well. im still on stock o2a trans with a peloquin and trap low 130's and havent had any issues yet. still not sure if i want o2m or gearset.

[euroroccoT]

i don't really like the gear ratio of the 02m wich is why im not going that route. i really want to go back to automatic but i had so much fuun this year shifting and running alot of events that i don't want to spend many month r&d the automatic, might still do not but not sure at this point

one thing is for sure we ended the year with 150mph with only 35psi and we will be running 42-44psi next year with alot of new parts so tranny is my priority#1

[haenszel]

hahahhaah so still noone really knows...... but i also hate the 02m gearing... thats really the single deterrent.

[vr6chris]

also dude, let me know if you and rick want to tune next saturday before world cup finals. as long as i get my motor back by wed. ill be ready. im trying to have kevin come down at tune my car either friday or saturday and if so, he might be able to tune a few others at my shop. we'll see.

[haenszel]

Quote, originally posted by vr6chris »

also dude, let me know if you and rick want to tune next saturday before world cup finals. as long as i get my motor back by wed. ill be ready. im trying to have kevin come down at tune my car either friday or saturday and if so, he might be able to tune a few others at my shop. we'll see.

PM-sauce'd.

[fourthchirpin]

02M's are tuff, i havn't yet seen/heard of an 02m tranny soup.

[lugnuts]

02M = very impressive trans so far, holds up well on 2800+ MK4's with 600-700 whp. Shifts excellent at very high rpm. Stock 02M axles are very strong. No comment on the ratios.

02J/02A = shifts like dog crap at high revs in stock form. Somewhat weak third gear. CV drive cups break also. Somewhat not great gear ratios.

AP tuning gears = I tune 3 cars with these gears.
Two older sets (the original batch) and one new set.

766whp/629 wtq full weight MK3, 3rd gear dry burnouts.
759 whp Corrado Racecar 9.70@156.66 mph, wheel hop first gear on 26X10" slicks
607 whp VR6 full weight MK3, 3rd gear dry burnouts.

No gear breakages whatsoever.

Whatever issue they had with third gear is fixed now IMO.

Suffers from same shifting and gear ratio issues as MK3 VR6 trans, but being new is your best bet for 02A/02J

Don't forget the Quaife gears, they would hold up pretty well in a 4 cylinder I think.

[2SLoWGTI]

I ran a stock o2a this season with no failures but was never able to make a sucessful pass mostly due to mis shifts, I tried the BM short shifter hoping it would help but didnt, then I got rid of the rubber bushings on the cable bracket replacing them with solid one and that made no differnce either. My next step is to purchase the Diesal geek cable ends along with a Mk4 shift box to see if that helps. I also will be running a AP box, If that does not help I have already been in contact with IPT trans about an automatic.


Modified by 2SLoWGTI at 5:48 AM 11-4-2008

[haenszel]

Quote, originally posted by lugnuts »

Suffers from same shifting and gear ratio issues as MK3 VR6 trans, but being new is your best bet for 02A/02J

Quote, originally posted by 2SLoWGTI »

I ran a stock o2a this season with no failures but was never able to make a sucessful pass mostly due to mis shifts,

Its that damn shifting issue that gets me now. Mine usually starts once I hot lap a few times then all the sudden I can never get into 3rd. The shifter gets all mushy feeling going into 3rd. Once it cools down for a bit its fine again. I thought It might be a clutch issue, thus the initial reasoning for this post(new clutch).

I already have a new throwout bearing, and brand new reinforced actuator arm. I was really hoping the actuator arm would help with this issue, but apparently that was not the case. My cable ends are solid filled also. meh.

[euroroccoT]

well my stocked geared 02j shifted like butter when i installed my clutchmaster fx700, never had a hard time shifting at 8500-8800rpm, added the diesel geek ends and feels so solid now. might stick with stock one for test and tune in january and see how it goes, i did talk to recerstev about heat treatment and might try that too

[haenszel]

Quote, originally posted by euroroccoT »

i did talk to recerstev about heat treatment and might try that too

just treating the stock gears?

[euroroccoT]

yeah.

[haenszel]

thought about that too.......... any more info on longevity or anything like that from the guy on HT?

[3071R-GLI]

I have heard mixed reviews on the AP Tuning gears. All I know there are 2 locals with MK3 VR6's running the AP tuning gears. One is making just under 500 whp, while the other is making 600+, and each have broken gears 3-4 times. One guy broke 4th gear on the dyno, and a few times just doing 60+ rolls on the highway.


Modified by 3071R-GLI at 11:17 AM 11-4-2008

[hardcore racer]

Hi, Kevin that people that you are taking about never Cryo that gears from AP tuning because i think that they have to hold power. G-Force know a lot how to make good gears.

Then I am thinking to be back in Drag if we don't have any Time Attack championship next year and because of that I got plan A and B.

The first one is extrac the WHP that I need with the 02J that I have rigth now with Peloquin and then began to work with a new automatic tranny like the last Rabbit project.

[euroroccoT]

the HT guys said that it made huge difference and that they were stripping gears before and now theyre holding fine.

like i said i had no problem with the gears for the whole season so spending alot of money on new tranny is questionable, altough with new power and set up might need it.

[fourthchirpin]

Quote, originally posted by euroroccoT »

the HT guys said that it made huge difference and that they were stripping gears before and now theyre holding fine. like i said i had no problem with the gears for the whole season so spending alot of money on new tranny is questionable, altough with new power and set up might need it.

I dont know about that for big power hondas 800whp + even their built trannies are having problems. The day of the shoot out i swear people were swaping liberty trannies like rotaries swap engines every each round.

[2SLoWGTI]

Quote, originally posted by fourthchirpin »

I dont know about that for big power hondas 800whp + even their built trannies are having problems. The day of the shoot out i swear people were swaping liberty trannies like rotaries swap engines every each round.

Yea those boys are sick I saw guys also change DSS stage 5.9's every pass just to be safe you gota pay if you wana play I guess

[euroroccoT]

most of them i think they said they were in 600whp range.

but who of tought i could make a full season with over 500ft/lbs at the wheels on stock gears

[zwogti]

[QUOTE=euroroccoT]most of them i think they said they were in 600whp range.

but who of tought i could make a full season with over 500ft/lbs at the wheels on stock gears [/QUOTE

yes 500 WTQ is a lot for stock tranny but it also depends how your power comes in and how much turbo leg you have that will make a lot of difference on how much stress you are putting on your gears, I'm waitting on my #4 APTUNING gears set to get here in 2 weeks if all work out for APTUNING, I get a little frustraited by braking them 3 times but I like to say thank you to APTUNING for working with me on dealing with this problem and for the good customer service every time I called them, hoping this time with a different new gears set design it will hold


Modified by zwogti at 11:22 PM 11-4-2008

[.therealvrt]

my Aptuning gears shift very smooth at high rpm I almost never miss a shift

[.therealvrt]

off topic but can anyone tell me if o2a and o2j clutch forks are the same

[haenszel]

Quote, originally posted by .therealvrt »

off topic but can anyone tell me if o2a and o2j clutch forks are the same

technically not... slightly different design but both work just fine in each.

[.therealvrt]

Quote, originally posted by haenszel »

technically not... slightly different design but both work just fine in each.

[Lag]

My APTuning tranny has been fine, no issues after the 3rd gear fix. shameless plug... It is for sale right now too.

[zwogti]

Quote, originally posted by Lag »

My APTuning tranny has been fine, no issues after the 3rd gear fix. shameless plug... It is for sale right now too.

you can push stock gears to 400-440 WTQ O2A,O2J, 02M to put some examples up there but if you are running race gears you should not brake with only that much torque. unless if the race gears were made to support the same amout of power the stock ones do . if you are not braking them is because you are not pushing more than 450WTQ, you have some turbo leg and you are getting full boost pass 5000 RPM in that case I think the stock gears would hold and maybe it is why you are not braking AP gears. if you do a search I think the cars that are braking gears are 90% vr6 motors and they are getting full boost and 450 -500 torque around 4300 RPM and they will put more torque than 1.8 and 2.0 motors. unless you are building the motor to rev to 8500 RPM and full boost pass 6500 RPM the AP gears will brake with more than 470 WTQ

[zwogti]

APtuning is coming with a new gears set and it is supposed to hold more power than the ones they have on the market now, lets wait and see, they're doing the best to come up with a much better and strong gears.

[hotsk1llet98]

I don't mean to divert from the topic but I have a brand new set of APTuning gears from Tom at APtuning for sale if anyone is interested.

[euroroccoT]

yeah we saw the new design 3-4 straight cut gear and said it would be stronger, i just like the Dog box idea better but will wait and see what they come out with