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    Thread: MSAR 556 or new Steyr AUG? what would you choose?

    1. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      11-26-2008 01:47 PM #1
      which would you choose? i've always liked the AUG and was thinking of picking up the MSAR. now that it seems like Sabre Defence will be manufacturing a new AUG i might be tempted to go with the Steyr. if you had to choose between one of the following which one would it be?

      http://www.msarinc.com/stg556_sporting.html

      or:

      http://www.steyrarms.com/

      which one and why?

      obin

      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    2. Member vw_jason79's Avatar
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      11-26-2008 02:10 PM #2
      So question, there is an A1, A2, and an A3 version of the AUG, correct? I was trying to compare the rates of fire just to try and find differences besides weight(probably the most important to me) and they were only showing automatic rate of fire for the AUG. The STG seems to only have a weight advantage and everything else seems to be better on the AUG. The gas operation is more complex on the AUG and seems like its more effecient as well.

      The way it stands right now is Id pick the AUG. But Im gonna hold my vote for other peoples responses, then pick.

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    3. 11-26-2008 02:11 PM #3
      AUG no question. If I could find a nice bull-pup for less than $2500+ I would definitely be looking into it.

      My L85A1 (airsoft model) is full weight, and man, it is the most comfortable gun I've ever shouldered. The bullpup design puts all the weight back on your shoulder. It is monumentally better feeling than normal design rifles.

      You also get a really long barrel in the same space. How is recoil on an AUG etc.?


    4. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      11-26-2008 02:32 PM #4
      Just a note: The Steyr and the MSAR pics are flipped.

      I'd go for the Steyr AUG. The service record is very good, as is the production length. I know they field strip easily too.
      I have a few Steyr rifles and a pistol and they have been superb.

      I have to admit that I have not direct experience with the MSAR or Steyr AUG.


    5. 11-26-2008 02:44 PM #5
      Is that MSAR the same as the Microtech 556?

      I've tried one on at the gun store and it's comfortable as heck, a little on the spendy side.

      I'd buy one over an AR though.

      The only thing that concerns me is lack of reach when using a bayonet.


    6. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      11-26-2008 02:47 PM #6
      Quote, originally posted by TabulaVicious »
      The only thing that concerns me is lack of reach when using a bayonet.

      LOL!


    7. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      11-26-2008 02:57 PM #7
      Quote, originally posted by Elbows »

      You also get a really long barrel in the same space. How is recoil on an AUG etc.?

      the recoil on the AUG is nothing. there's an old video of my shooting a can from about 100 feet away. i was holding the AUG like a big pistol and shot it offhand. one shot and one hit! the ergonomics are incredible and the gun recoils very lightly. it's almost addictive to shoot.

      i've been thinking about the MSAR because it's an AUG clone but i didn't like that goofy forward assist (which is totally unnecessary but was added by someone at Microtech who loves ARs too much ).

      obin

      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    8. 11-26-2008 04:23 PM #8
      Quote, originally posted by Elbows »
      AUG no question. If I could find a nice bull-pup for less than $2500+ I would definitely be looking into it.

      I've always thought the FN FS2000 were neat... And I think they run around $2100 ... And I'm not 100% sure, but I think they might accept AR mags, which would be a big plus...


    9. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      11-26-2008 05:20 PM #9
      i've shot the FS2000 before and it is a pretty nice gun. they take AR mags 100%. the one i shot had Magpul mags in it. though the FS2000 is a nice gun i still like the feel of the AUG better.

      obin

      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    10. 11-27-2008 01:23 AM #10
      Man, well like any other guns, finding an MSAR is again next to impossible. I am looking into one, because, I always like bullpups. But before I could own one, I was too young and when I could, they were banned. Now they are available in CA again!

      I was debating the FS2000 or the MSAR. I liked the FS2000 with scope because its a SciFi gun to me. Something the Master Chief would carry. But at price tag of $2500 keeps me away. I have liked the AUG since I first saw Die Hard. With the scope they are still around $1800 if you can find one. And I will find one...


    11. 11-27-2008 11:17 AM #11
      Jeez, my gun shop has 3 of those AUG wannabes and they're all $1699 + tax.

    12. 11-27-2008 10:17 PM #12

      AUG.

      That MSAR just looks awkward.


    13. Senior Member SchrickVR6's Avatar
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      11-27-2008 11:04 PM #13
      Steyrs don't seem to like being held vertically. The way they're designed seems to make you want to hold it at a 5-10 degree angle. Or maybe it's just me.
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    14. Member sg207ptg's Avatar
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      05-03-2009 09:25 AM #14
      ... bump.

      Since the AUG/A3 is now in stores, has anyone seen one or tried one? Any update?


    15. Member RogueTDI's Avatar
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      05-03-2009 06:18 PM #15
      I just got an MSAR, set up just like an original Stg77 A1 (minus the optic rail, bolt catch release, and other minor differences) - 20" barrel version, green stock.

      I voted MSAR because as much as the genuine article is probably better, the MSAR has been quite good so far, although, initially it was giving me FTF/FTE problems. Otherwise, it's quite good, and if the price is lower than the Steyr, it's definitely attractive. I like having a bolt catch, but would also like to have the AUG's forward assist. I prefer a simple optic rail too, not sure the AUG offers that. But for engineering quality, I'd prefer the Steyr.





      Modified by RogueTDI at 3:19 PM 5-3-2009


    16. Member RogueTDI's Avatar
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      05-03-2009 06:25 PM #16
      Quote, originally posted by Elbows »
      AUG no question. If I could find a nice bull-pup for less than $2500+ I would definitely be looking into it.

      My L85A1 (airsoft model) is full weight, and man, it is the most comfortable gun I've ever shouldered. The bullpup design puts all the weight back on your shoulder. It is monumentally better feeling than normal design rifles.

      You also get a really long barrel in the same space. How is recoil on an AUG etc.?

      I've definitely fallen in love with the bullpup design. A 20" barrel in something shorter than an M4, and the balance is great. The recoil on my MSAR is awesome too - better than an AR15 in my opinion. It's more random, and therefore predictable, with less muzzle rise. The AUG style flash hider vents upward, for some braking effect. I'm overall very happy with my MSAR STG556 - shot 130 rnds of both brass and steel case, in no particular order the other day, and it functioned flawlessly. Also seemed to be more accurate than my 16" ar15 carbine, but that's a subjective impression.

      For sure, the MSAR is a quality weapon and does due justice to the Steyr design.


    17. Member RogueTDI's Avatar
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      05-03-2009 06:28 PM #17
      Quote, originally posted by Obin Robinson »

      ...

      i've been thinking about the MSAR because it's an AUG clone but i didn't like that goofy forward assist (which is totally unnecessary but was added by someone at Microtech who loves ARs too much ).

      obin


      They got rid of the forward assist. Mine doesn't have it. Just a bolt catch, which I would think is an upgrade.


    18. Senior Member SchrickVR6's Avatar
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      05-03-2009 07:28 PM #18
      I kinda want the new MSAR in 9mm that's supposed to be released this summer.
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    19. Member sg207ptg's Avatar
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      05-05-2009 10:28 AM #19
      How much did you pay for your MSAR?

      The AUG A3 is $2295, according to one online dealer.


    20. Member RogueTDI's Avatar
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      05-05-2009 11:15 AM #20
      Got my kalifornerized A1 clone for like $2100, already higher than typical price in the country. So, it could probably be had for 1600-1800, this market notwithstanding.

      I'd say, the features versus price ought to be the biggest factor in the decision. The MSAR is basically a Steyr-licensed design. It's true to the original, with mods, and it's been essentially top quality for me so far. I'm pretty sure the current MSAR also takes original AUG mags.


      Modified by RogueTDI at 8:17 AM 5-5-2009


    21. Member sg207ptg's Avatar
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      08-11-2012 07:58 AM #21
      Resurrected from the dead...

      Photos of the new VLTOR Cold-Hammer-Forged A3
      http://www.pjs-steyraug.com/AUG-A3-Pictures.html

    22. 08-11-2012 03:30 PM #22
      I was pretty excited about the AUG...and then found that they're using 1/9 twist barrels from FN. I couldn't believe it...hoping perhaps someone was mistaken.

      I think I'd consider either one, but I'd probably trust the AUG sooner than I would trust an MSAR. Just silly superstition. Also, MSAR went bankrupt, and apparently is back...but won't accept warranty work on their old gun unless it is unfired, or you have a proof of purchase/receipt? That's pretty stupid.

      I do like that MSAR has an available brass-deflector (AUG/MSAR....not so useful on weak-side transitions).

    23. Member sg207ptg's Avatar
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      07-30-2013 02:34 PM #23
      Bump...

      Just got the words that 1/7 twist barrel is coming (1-2 months). 9mm kit is also on the way.

    24. 07-30-2013 09:37 PM #24
      I think the AUG/MSAR market is going to take a hit with the Tavor and other bullpups which seem to be gaining a bit of popularity.

    25. 07-31-2013 08:52 AM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by Elbows View Post
      I think the AUG/MSAR market is going to take a hit with the Tavor and other bullpups which seem to be gaining a bit of popularity.
      good, hopefully we'll see a pricing war.

      there nice rifles, but I think there quite a bit over priced.

    26. 07-31-2013 09:15 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by Elbows View Post
      I think the AUG/MSAR market is going to take a hit with the Tavor and other bullpups which seem to be gaining a bit of popularity.

      I'm counting on this becoming true. At $1,200, I'll be an AUG buyer. I was dead set on buying a Tavor when they came out, but when it came time to actually put down $2,000 I couldn't rationalize the purchase.

    27. 08-01-2013 04:15 PM #27
      I don't think we'll see a drop in prices though...between the panic and the niche market which is bullpup buyers, I don't expect much. It'd be nice, maybe a couple hundred bucks off, but no real competition.


    28. Member Zyoid's Avatar
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      08-02-2013 06:47 AM #28
      I would love an AUG
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    29. Member sg207ptg's Avatar
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      08-02-2013 01:48 PM #29
      May be never at $1200 but I am sure (with patience) you might be able to find a used one for less than MSRP.

    30. 08-02-2013 10:22 PM #30
      I don't think you can get much breaks on Bullpups in general. They are not high volume sellers or made by everyone with access to a CNC machine AR's. They are kind of specialized and there are only so many different types on the market. I own a MSAR, KSG and soon to be TAVOR. I also have experience with a friends FS2000.

      On the MSAR:

      I would recommend anyone going for an AUG, go for the real deal. The MSAR (and I own one) was very promising alternative. But Microtech was unprepared to go into the weapons market and many early MSAR's suffered allot of quality control issues. Even mine was the same way: the bolt carrier pin broke and damaged the bolt carrier all together. There must have been some problem earlier before it broke because I would occasionally double feed no matter what ammo or mags I used. Ratworx was nice enough to repair it, and no problems have ever arisen since that time. Avoid and go with the Steyr.


      On the FS2000:

      The gun is light enough but it feels bulky. The mechanism scares me. Its a complex ejecting system that extracts from the chamber and moves the casing down a forward tube allowing for forward ejection giving it ambi handling. It even works when full of cases and the ejector cover closed. It will throw anything out. But its a closed system. Only a small port cover toward the rear allows one the ability to see the chamber. You can't get any fingers in there to un-jam anything if one needs too. The magwell has a rubber seal to keep things out meaning don't use Pmags or anything else but aluminum mags if you want to get it out easy. Also don't bother using anything than full length mags as the magwell. Its too deep for anything shorter. Failure to properly seat a mag will result in double feeding which due to its closed design, is hard to clear.

      On the KSG:

      Although not a rifle, it is a nice piece of engineering. Amazingly I did not pay anything more than retail (tax, shipping, dross extra). It is a nice shotgun. Incredibly compact with over twice the capacity of conventional shotguns.. I have fired a bout 100 or so rounds of various mix from bird, buck, slug and low recoil and it shoots. Heck it even loads and fires Aguila mini shells. Quadruple your ammo! The trigger is also very nice for a bullpup. (I had also heard that Keltec's RFB also had a very nice trigger for a bullpup) As a collector of unique and innovative pieces, its great. Its manual of arms is not. The gun feeds, loads, selects and ejects out of the same area, so there are allot of moving parts to keep track of. Not great in a high stress situation. It is hard to load. You have to turn it upside down and look and load to be fast. Also if you load two types of ammo, you have to keep track of what loads are in which tubes, and be mindful of the selector position for a given tube. Quality control reports are all over the place. MAC on Youtube did not have a favorable review. Mine has been peachy. Your mileage may vary. Although I would not recommend this gun if you have to go over 1k. Market demands and your desire will dictate what you want to pay, but in the ends its a fancy shotgun.

      Now I have a TAVOR coming to me that I will review. This gun is virtually less than 6 months old to our shores, but its design is original Israeli like the one the IDF is using and most of the parts are made in Israel off the same IWI/IMI weapon line. I believe it is assembled here with some US spec parts for 922r compliance. Initial reviews have all be positive with the exception being the weight and trigger pull. I expect this to be probably just as tough and reliable as its IDF counterpart. I have been watching all of MAC's reviews and they all look great. I can't wait to see what the aftermarket will come up with. Members on Bullpup forums are already designing aftermarket items. I heard Geissele is already designing a better trigger! Great times.

    31. Senior Member NoDubJustYet's Avatar
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      08-04-2013 10:09 AM #31
      Great post!


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