TECH: Timing your ABA

[911_fan]

I'm mainly writing this because I am tired of seeing the same questions every week. Figured I would write up a little DIY, the way I do it. (the quick and painless way). Now, I own/operate an OBDII ABA, so I'm assuming this works on an OBDI ABA as well. As for MKIV's....no clue. Im sure the DBC motors can go off this, but not the DBW motors.

The tools I use are simple:

*Adjustable wrench (for the tensioner nut and camshaft gear nut)
*Small needle nose pliers (to use as a spanner wrench to tighten the tensioner)
*Long flat head screw driver (to pop the clips on/off the distributor cap)
*Flash light (for near-blind, old ****ers like me)

I use these because they are very basic tools. They should be in the tool bag that should be in each and every one of you's hatch/trunk. (You are driving a VW, remember?)

Ok, now I'm going to go through and explain this, step by step, and it's going to make it look 10x harder and time consuming than it really is. I'm also going to go through a few different scenarios I see posted, and get some facts/fiction out of the way.

Most of the time, a post is made complaining of either:

Q: "I just did the timing belt and the car runs real weak/strong on the low end, but runs weak/strong at higher rpms."

A: The reason for this is that you slipped the belt over the cam gear either 1 tooth retarded (no low end, lots of top end) or 1 tooth advanced (lots of low end, no top end). Each tooth on the cam gear represents (appx) 8* of timing. From experience with my own motor, the |0| timing mark is pretty confusing because it's not 100% accurate for setting the timing. Example So, just keep this in mind when you get everything buttoned up.

or

2) Q: "I just did the timing belt and I get a CEL (P0341)."

A: The reason for this is that the tip of the distributor rotor is not properly aligned to the timing mark on the distributor, like this. The CPS (camshaft position sensor) is looking for the copper part of the tip of the rotor to pass by at a certain time. This is so that the ECU knows when to fire the injectors. If the timing is off, and the ECU does not receive the signal at the appropriate time, it will essentially go into a "limp mode". This limp mode retards the ignition timing to a safe 12* BTDC, and also fires all four injectors all at the same time as opposed to a 'sequential' firing pattern. An immediate loss of power is felt, along with a CEL with a P0341 code that will not go away until the timing is corrected, and the code is manually cleared with a scanner.

*Note #1: It is entirely possible to have the rotor off by a very small margin on either side of the TDC mark, and still run correctly. Motronic ignition is self-adjusting in that it is adaptable to keep in time. An example would be a timing belt stretching over time. It stretches to the point where the ignition cannot adapt any longer. It will pop a CEL and throw you into limp mode until the situation is fixed.

*Note #2: The flip side to this is a new belt is installed and no matter what, the rotor is off by a bit. Advancing/retarding the intermediate shaft pulley moves it too much. At this point, it is suggested to re-phase the distributor. This procedure includes loosening the fork nut that hold the distributor in place and twisting the unit clockwise or counter-clockwise until both line up. It is difficult to do on an OBDI motor because there are two pins keeping the distributor from twisting. Remove them. OBDII's, or at least on my motor, I had no obstructions keeping me from twisting the distributor. Again, this is a last ditch effort to time the distributor...most of the time you don't have to do this.

So now that we got the two major questions answered, lets get on with timing the motor. I'm going to take this through with you from scratch....like if you were replacing a timing belt. For this, you will use the adjustable wrench to loosen the tensioner pulley and slip the belt off the camshaft gear.

Align the crank shaft to TDC

First we will align the crank. Most guys would put a socket on the crank pulley and turn the motor over that way. I got an easier/faster way. Jack up the passenger side of the car so the tires is off the ground. Put the trans in 3rd gear. Now grab on to the tire and rotate it. Take it easy, because the compression of the motor is going to make it a little difficult to turn. 3rd gear in an O2O trans is pretty much a 1:1 ratio. Ok, so rotate the crank (by turning the tire) until the notch on the lip of the pulley lines up with an embossed arrow on the lower timing belt cover. Example 1 & Example 2. The Bentley manual instructs you to use the markings on the fly wheel. But that, again is confusing because the prominent mark is NOT the TDC mark....it's a small dimple that is very difficult to see. And what if you upgrade your flywheel like I did, and no longer have that mark? Use the marking on the crank pulley. It's easier and faster.

Align the distributor (intermediate shaft pulley)

Once the crank is TDC-set, now we have to get the IM shaft pulley aligned. This is easy to do as well. First we remove the distributor cap. (take note of which side is front.) Now, take the long flat head screw driver and **CAREFULLY** pry back the retardedly fragile clips off the distributor cap. Take your time with this and don't pry the clips back too far. If you do, they WILL snap off. (I have a fix for this, which I will explain later.) So with the cap off, you should be able to, with your finger, spin the rotor around. You will see that the intermediate shaft spins as well. Very simply, align the rotor to it's TDC mark.

Align the camshaft gear

Take the adjustable wrench and SLOWLY align the marking on the gear to the plastic timing marker behind the gear. Example. Just get it lined up exactly to the marks...the belt probably won't slip on at exactly on that mark, but it's a starting point.

Slipping on the belt

At this point we have all 3 aligned properly. Now comes the tricky part: getting the belt over the crank gear and over the int. shaft pulley without messing up the int. shaft pulley's timing mark. So, take our left hand and grab onto the belt to the left of the crank pulley. Take your right hand and grab onto the belt where it comes out, right above the int. shaft pulley. Very carefully, with your right hand, maneuver the belt to sit on the gear. Try to keep the rotor timed to the mark. Now with your left hand, you can easily maneuver the belt over the crank gear. You will be able to tell when you have all the slop between the crank and int pulley gone. You are basically going to be moving the int. pulley to get the belt over the crank gear. As long as the belt slips over the crank gear, with the rotor still timed, you are set. Now, if you screw this part up and get the belt over the gears, but managed to move the rotor off its mark, here's what you do. Still holding onto the belt with both hands, keep the tension of the belt on the int. pulley, but with the left hand, gently push down and finagle the teeth of the belt over the crank gear, letting the int. pulley move in whichever direction, until the belt is on the crank gear. It's a LOT easier than it sound, but you will completely understand once you are doing this.

Now, keeping the belt tight, let the belt slide through your right hand up towards the cam gear so you can start the belt over the camshaft gear. It's either going to slip right over, or, you are going the have to move the gear with the wrench to get it to go. If its the latter, simply keep grab onto both ends of the belt with your left hand, grab the wrench with your right and move the gear until its in the position for the belt to slip over. {It's a PIA, but its all you can do if you're alone.) Its usually just a small adjustment...slide over the belt.

The tensioner

At this point now, you got the belt over the crank, int. shaft pulley, and camshaft gear.....and hopefully the distributor is still on the TDC mark. Lets tighten the tensioner now. The tension is for taking up the slack on the back side of the belt. There are the old style tensioner (1993 thru mid-1997), and the new tensioner with a self adjusting dampener (mid-1997 thru 1999). The dampener automatically picks up the slack and keeps the tension as the belt wears. Carefully work the belt over the tensioner. Once in place, you will need to tighten the tensioner. You do not need the VW specialty spanner wrench to do this....I use my small pair of needle nose pliers. Works just as good. So we tighten the tensioner with the needle nose pliers with our left hand as we tighten the tensioner nut with the adjustable wrench with out right hand. Done and done. You do NOT want to tighten the tension too tight. If you do, it will howl really loud. You just want it tight enough so it doesnt back out. OEM VW spec is 33ft/lbs. As for the belt, you want to be able to twist it, between the camshaft gear and the int. shaft gear NO MORE THAN 90*. Your belt should be nice and snug on both sides of the camshaft gear. At this point you wan to put your distributor cap back on.

For those of you who were unfortunate enough to snap off one or both clips that keep the cap attached to the distributor, here is the quick and easy solution: 2 zip-ties. Most of the time (most, not all) the clips snap off so that even though they are no longer attached tot he dist. base, you can still hook them under the base lip and still be able to snap the top part over the cap like its supposed to. What remains is the clips not being on very strong. The vibration alone would knock them loos. So, you attach the ends of both zip-ties to make one long one. Wrap it around the mid-section of the clips, and cinch it tight. Viola! Problem solved.

SO thats it. Sounds like a LOT of work, but honestly, that was all just 5 minutes of work. Once you do it a couple of times, it gets easier and easier. For those of you that are new to this motor, I would highly suggest rotating the motor over, by hand (using the jacked up tire method) first before calling it a day...you know, just in case you messed up. Your timing marks should re-align.
I hope this helps to answer MOST of the questions out there. Consider yourselves fortunate these motors are so fricken easy to time.

Trav

Modified by tdogg74 at 10:40 AM 1-2-2009

[Jay-Bee]

Good stuff Travis

[jerrymic]

[jaso028]

Nice write up Travis..
but you know you will still get questions everyday about someones timing..

[911_fan]

Quote, originally posted by jaso028 »

but you know you will still get questions everyday about someones timing..

and i wont answer them.

The thing about this DIY is that no matter what state you are in, you can still reference this to get it 100%.

Now if people will only search for their answer before posting. This should pop up in their search query. Hopefully.

[jaso028]

o now you want people to search
sorry that made me chuckle..

the write up is awesome!! think a lot of peoples problems are they dont ever double check there work...

[911_fan]

Timing this motor is one of the easier things to do to this motor. I do it without even jacking up the car....I just put it in 3rd gear, grab onto the rad support, and pull the car forward by hand till the crank lines up. The rest is easy. Makes cam swaps even faster.

[Jay-Bee]

Quote, originally posted by tdogg74 »

As for MKIV's....no clue. Im sure the DBC motors can go off this, but not the DBW motors.

RE: MK4

The crank pulley and cam gear should have very similar marks, I have looked into it. Other things will differ like the upper and lower TB covers and other things around the engine bay, and the only thing I can think of is that the BBW engine has a weird cam gear. We get to skip the IM shaft/distributor part. DBC vs DBW shouldn't be any different.

Keep this on page 1.

[BSMSG]

amazing!!. im doing my first timing belt on a 2.0 and this was a great help. Cheers

[MkIII_Paul]

add to 2.0 faq?

[CROWN]

c-clamps or vice grips work well for me put it on Intermediate pully and hold the belt on that and cam lined up then put over crank gear. Idk worked for me. But yes job very easy. Also IMO the hyldraulic tensioners I think are junk I replaced with the eccentric type. So I'll always be using the eccentric type. Had to many problems with the hydraulic type

[vcolper]

Very good instructions. I'm relacing the cyl head of my 97 2.0 Jetta, automatic and the crankshaft doesnt line up per your instructions (or Haynes for that matter). Before installing the head, I aligned the flywheel per the manual and #1 piston was at TDC (visually witnessed), but the timing mark on the damper and timing cover are off by about 30 degrees. If I go by the damper, the piston is not at TDC.

What am I doing wrong?...doesnt make sense.
My logic says ...use the flywheel. What do you all say?

Regards,

Vic
Guayama, PR

[FL 2.0L]

Is it possible the crank gear spun on the crankshaft? Why are you replacing the head?

[911_fan]

Why are you talking about this **** in this thread??

[Pitsy]

Travis, thanks for taking the time to do this write-up. It should eliminate a lot of those "what now?" moments people run into when something's not addressed in the service manual.

X2 put this in the FAQ!

[Steve95Golf]

very good writeup thanks bro

[gelder_vw]

just wanted to say thanks for this write up i had to change my int. shaft seal and messed up the timing searched and found this thread.
THANKS!!

[VerboteneJuden]

When using this setup, as explained in my previous post, the car will not fire. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4272186 Its not just a timing issue. Is it possible that someone put a ecu from a later model that had a camshaft position sensor?

[jettish 44]

THANK you! Just replaced my cap, wires, plugs and coil and snapped one of the clips off of the distributor... I was sure I had screwed up big time. This thread with its quick zip-tie fix saved me from having to bum a ride to work for the next couple of days!

[ghoastoflyle]

I seriously appreciate this Travis. Its something I haven't been able to buckle down. I always said f' it. Now I don't got or want mom and dad to foot the bill and plan on doing my timing soon. (been quite some time since I've needed too)

[MecE2.0]

this should be added to the DIY/FAQ's, this seems to come up a lot.

[e-brake]

Thanks! I was looking for that tq spec.

[dsleggett]

Travis, Can my car have run great for 70,000 plus miles getting 33 mpg etc while having timing off by one crank gear tooth? I have just finished reading all ABA timing posts. I have used DJR’s DIY to replace timing belt, water pump etc. Lined everything up last night for new timing belt and my crank pulley appeared to be one tooth past (going clockwise) the TDC embossed mark on lower timing cover, before I took the old belt off. I marked old belt teeth with 0TDC mark on cam gear, made a mark on intermediate shaft gear and crank gear too, marking the old belt to each of those. I did NOT look in the green timing hole before removing the old belt. I counted teeth and made marks on new belt, replaced new belt and then looked in the green timing hole. 0TDC mark is at far left edge of hole, I cannot see the 6 degree BTDC mark. I bought the car with about 95,000 miles on it and it has 165,000 now. The belt was done at 88,000 miles, I have previous owner’s records. So it appears to have been one tooth off for the past 77,000 plus miles (360 degrees divided by 22 total teeth means each is about 16.36 degrees). Can the computer adjust to that much retard? Just wondering.

Travis, Never mind. I finished everything up last night, I guess I thought things were a bit more "precise". Moving the belt one notch one way or the other moves the flywheel a ton; making all timing marks disappear from the "green hole." The notch on the crank pulley is still a good quarter inch past the embossed mark on the lower timing cover, oh well, it runs great.

Modified by dsleggett at 10:13 AM 5-12-2009

PS: GREAT writeup and thanks for all of the information, it was very helpful.


Modified by dsleggett at 10:15 AM 5-12-2009

[leskie]

well done!

[2LTurbo]

there already is a mk4 aeg version in te faq by vasilalov.. but ditto the ABA one needs to be posted there as well

[UGLYDUB13]

thanks for the info

[LangsamKafer]

Quote, originally posted by 2LTurbo »

there already is a mk4 aeg version in te faq by vasilalov.. but ditto the ABA one needs to be posted there as well

Done.

[Car Freak]

Since it is an interference engine, shouldn't you move the crankshaft and the camshaft at the same time, when turning the crank to align TDC as you could damage the valves?

[drracing07]

one of my friends timing belt came off with the car running and it was fine. he has a jetta with an aba. now i had my belt slip and i bent some valves but only cause have an AT 270º cam.

[shwagondawheels]

Quote, originally posted by 2LTurbo »

there already is a mk4 aeg version in te faq by vasilalov.. but ditto the ABA one needs to be posted there as well

yeah but AEGs are easier due to no intermediate gear to time up.. AEGs just have the water pump there...

not like its hard to time an ABA anyways... by far too easy and that's why i still own one

[beamers]

The information was great for replacing the belt and timing it,my problem is a spark issue.Only will spark 1 time and that is when the key is turned off.Cranking no spark.Power is at coil

[randiman]

Travis,
Great piece of education. Wish I had read it before I went searching for a resolution to my problems. Just changed out distributor on 1995 Golf 2.0 cause I had broken spring clip while changing wires, cap and rotor. Was very careful to install dist. in identical position as orginal after finding what I thought was flywheel TDC. Now it runs like crap and CEL is on. BTW, AllData DIY was useless in providing a decent illustration of the flyhweel TDC mark, and after reading your post, I believe I had the wrong mark lined up (VW special tool lug is what I was seeing), rotor is probably not in correct position and engine is in limp mode. Is there a way to clear trouble code without a scan tool once the dist is reinstalled correctly?

[randiman]

Travis,
Just to follow-up, thanks again for your post. As suspected, rotor was incorrectly positioned. After reinstalling, engine runs much better and CEL went off immediately wihout reset. Engine still lacks some power and misfires under low speed accelleration, but I suspect either new C&R or wires are crap because I can hear sparking and simulataneous misfire at idle. Working on that next. I am sure you helped my pull my a** most of the way out of the weeds. Thanks one more time.

[rayray086]

Top post, thanks.

[Tawayama]

I just finished the timing belt/water pump on my '98 2.0l Cabrio.

Got it all buttoned up just fine, but it won't start! I turned it over by hand with a wrench on the crank, two complete revolutions, and everything turned over without any surprises. I felt good enough to crank it with the starter and did so. I turned it over but the engine didn't fire. Checked the engine for any loose connectors and tried again. Still no-go.

I am going to look again tomorrow and re-check the timing and rotor placement. I don't know if I'm getting spark or not so I will also check that first thing.

I am hearing a howl when I turn it over that I am thinking might be the timing belt tensioned too tightly.

Everything else checks out A-OK, so I'm predicting an electrical problem.

Thanks again for the awesome tech!