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    VWVortex


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    Thread: Won't run when wet (not coilpacks)

    1. 12-28-2008 03:25 PM #1
      So for a few weeks, whenever it's raining or snowing my Jetta won't run. It will start bucking, then shutoff and not start for a while. Eventually it will start and drive just fine after a few minutes.

      These codes have come back every time:
      3 Faults Found:
      16725 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Implausible Signal
      P0341 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16621 - Manifold Pressure / Boost Sensor (G31): Signal too Low
      P0237 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16490 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96): Implausible Signal
      P0106 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

      Now, is there really a problem with the cam sensor, or do these three sensors share a common ground?


    2. 12-28-2008 03:56 PM #2
      I don't see any wet or corroded connections. The only wiring addition is are HID's. But they just plug in and are run with a relay.

    3. Senior Member bluefox280's Avatar
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      12-28-2008 05:05 PM #3
      Quote, originally posted by GrahamRam »
      It will start bucking, then shutoff and not start for a while.

      Check Engine Light (CEL) flash at all before the car fails to run?

      Quote, originally posted by GrahamRam »
      Now, is there really a problem with the cam sensor, or do these three sensors share a common ground?

      Actually, there's only two sensors at fault; you've got two different codes for the MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor.
      Check wiring on the MAP sensor, and data-log with a VAG-COM to see if its measuring actual pressure.

      * VW DTC 16725 (P0341) - Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Range / Performance
      The ECU is either detecting a fault sensor, or timing of the engine is off.
      You need to check the operation of the camshaft sensor (G40), and the wiring to the ECU.
      If sensor is good, confirm timing of the engine is correct.
      If the sensor is completely shot / faulty, the car may not start because the ECU needs both the CKP and CMP to determine firing.

      - Erik

      Pattern Draft Imaging.com - "...Where Engineering Discipline and Photography Merge as One..."

    4. 12-28-2008 05:15 PM #4
      Quote, originally posted by bluefox280 »

      Check Engine Light (CEL) flash at all before the car fails to run?

      Nope. It only comes on once you start the car again.

      Quote, originally posted by bluefox280 »

      Actually, there's only two sensors at fault; you've got two different codes for the MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor.
      Check wiring on the MAP sensor, and data-log with a VAG-COM to see if its measuring actual pressure.

      * VW DTC 16725 (P0341) - Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Range / Performance
      The ECU is either detecting a fault sensor, or timing of the engine is off.
      You need to check the operation of the camshaft sensor (G40), and the wiring to the ECU.
      If sensor is good, confirm timing of the engine is correct.
      If the sensor is completely shot / faulty, the car may not start because the ECU needs both the CKP and CMP to determine firing.

      - Erik

      Thanks! I'll log the map sensor and check timing tonight.

      The last time it happened i had the following codes:
      16621 - Manifold Pressure / Boost Sensor (G31): Signal too Low
      P0237 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      17796 - Internal Control Module Malfunction
      P1388 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16486 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70): Signal too Low
      P0102 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      18047 - Accelerator Position Sensor 1/2 (G79/G185): Implausible Signal
      P1639 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16490 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96): Implausible Signal
      P0106 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      18041 - Accelerator Position Sensor 2 (G185): Signal too Low
      P1633 - 35-00 - -


    5. Senior Member bluefox280's Avatar
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      12-28-2008 05:22 PM #5
      When you say "it won't run", it's cranking, but does not fire-up?
      Have you checked your fuel pump relay at all?

      * VW DTC 17796 (P1388) - Control Module Malfunction - DBW Throttle Monitoring
      * VW DTC 18041 (P1633) - Accelerator Position Sensor 2 (G185): Signal too Low

      * VW DTC 18047 (P1639) - Acceleration Pedal Position Sensors 1 + 2 - Out of Range / Performance

      First, there are TWO sensors on the throttle pedal assembly; both are working together, but "count" the distance in opposite directions...
      Basically sensor 1 is still working fine, but the ECU is seeing that sensor 2 is not correctly responding.
      It's output signal is higher than expected, usually due to a change in internal resistance and therefore the ECU is seeing the descrepency.

      End result? Replace the pedal assembly with a new unit.

      - Erik

      Pattern Draft Imaging.com - "...Where Engineering Discipline and Photography Merge as One..."

    6. 12-29-2008 09:31 AM #6
      It will crank over sometimes, then die. Others it will not crank at all.

      It's done it twice since and these are the only codes:
      16725 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Implausible Signal
      P0341 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16621 - Manifold Pressure / Boost Sensor (G31): Signal too Low
      P0237 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16490 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96): Implausible Signal
      P0106 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

      The p1633, p1338, and p1639 haven't returned since.


    7. 12-29-2008 08:57 PM #7
      Now all codes are back

      16621 - Manifold Pressure / Boost Sensor (G31): Signal too Low
      P0237 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16490 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96): Implausible Signal
      P0106 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      18047 - Accelerator Position Sensor 1/2 (G79/G185): Implausible Signal
      P1639 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16725 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Implausible Signal
      P0341 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16486 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70): Signal too Low
      P0102 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      18041 - Accelerator Position Sensor 2 (G185): Signal too Low
      P1633 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

      What should I look at replacing first? Since it seems to be a timing problem, I'm guessing cam sensor?


    8. Senior Member bluefox280's Avatar
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      12-29-2008 11:08 PM #8
      Quote, originally posted by GrahamRam »
      ...Since it seems to be a timing problem, I'm guessing cam sensor?

      Yes...
      But also remove and clean the fuel pump relay wiring terminals.

      - Erik

      Pattern Draft Imaging.com - "...Where Engineering Discipline and Photography Merge as One..."

    9. 12-30-2008 07:44 AM #9
      Quote, originally posted by bluefox280 »

      Yes...
      But also remove and clean the fuel pump relay wiring terminals.

      - Erik

      Already done. I'll get a cam sensor today. Thanks man!


    10. 01-07-2009 09:50 AM #10
      I've replaced the maf and cam position sensor. Fuel pump relay is fine. The car still does the same thing, just much more often.

      Same codes come up. Cam position sensor and maf every time, sometimes the pedal sensor.


    11. 01-08-2009 06:58 PM #11
      Okay, so I took it to a "VW specialist" who worked on it with a guy from a VW dealer and they "fixed" it by putting on another cam sensor and maf. Same **** happened on the way home. Same codes.

      16725 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Implausible Signal
      P0341 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16490 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96): Implausible Signal
      P0106 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16621 - Manifold Pressure / Boost Sensor (G31): Signal too Low
      P0237 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      18041 - Accelerator Position Sensor 2 (G185): Signal too Low
      P1633 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16486 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70): Signal too Low
      P0102 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      18047 - Accelerator Position Sensor 1/2 (G79/G185): Implausible Signal
      P1639 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

      Anyone have any idea? So far, two cam sensors, two mafs, two rental cars. Over $500 so far an no fix.

      I offer a case of beer to whoever figures it out.


      Modified by GrahamRam at 7:09 PM 1-8-2009


    12. Member
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      01-08-2009 07:02 PM #12
      i had the same problem. i put 3 different cam sensors in the car and then it finally worked. just the crank sensor and map sensor also

    13. 01-08-2009 07:04 PM #13
      Really? What could be wrong with a brand new Bosch cam sensor at $145?

    14. Member
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      01-08-2009 07:15 PM #14
      Quote, originally posted by GrahamRam »
      Really? What could be wrong with a brand new Bosch cam sensor at $145?

      i have no idea man ....i had a problem with them...to be honest with you i dont think it was the sensors at all...it was a strange thing. where are you located? i think i have 1 or 2 i can send to you for free if i can find them


    15. 01-08-2009 08:21 PM #15
      Okay, so this is the first time I've brought a VW in for someone else to work on(in the middle of moving so my tools are still packed and garage full), and they really ****ed up.

      I just pulled the fuel pump relay and the connections are corroded. ****. Can't trust anyone these days. All that and it's a $45 relay. Well, hopefully that fixes it. Someone check is getting canceled.


    16. 01-10-2009 08:09 PM #16
      Got the relay in. Same **** now.

      16725 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Implausible Signal
      P0341 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16621 - Manifold Pressure / Boost Sensor (G31): Signal too Low
      P0237 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
      16490 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96): Implausible Signal
      P0106 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

      What's next? Computer?


    17. 01-10-2009 10:53 PM #17

    18. 01-11-2009 10:10 AM #18
      Anyone? I have a change to get an ECU today.

    19. Member
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      01-11-2009 10:18 AM #19
      sent you a pm

    20. 01-11-2009 11:01 AM #20
      Anyone else? I'm stranded at home with no car.

    21. 01-12-2009 08:43 PM #21
      New ecu, runs great now.

    22. 01-13-2009 09:01 AM #22
      Quote, originally posted by GrahamRam »
      New ecu, runs great now.

      Or not. Broke down this morning. New thread started. ****.


    23. 01-13-2009 09:21 AM #23
      My car does the same thing. I first thought it was the cold start valve. When i was leavinkg for school this morning it ust kept cranking but no ignition. I checked for spark, sprayed WD-40 on all ignition leads and the coil. Strill kept cranking. I am beginning to think that it does this is not a cold start problem but solmething with the damp. Snowed a ****load last night. It ran fine yesterday. Its a 97 golf CL. Also it has new plugs, new coil, and new wires, new cap and rotor.

    24. 01-13-2009 09:42 AM #24
      Okay so after an hour of trying its finally going. What i discovered is actually quite simple. When the snow is blowing to the front end of your car all the snow is going through the grill. I have noticed that it has done this to me before but only when i have backed in my driveway when the snow was coming from that direction and it just plowed it in through the front grill. Since then i started parking the front end close up to the back of my sisters car to provide a shield when it came from that way. Well my sister is gone for the week. So when i parked my car half way up the driveway with no shielding from the snow which was being rammed in through the grill all night the whole bay was wet in the morning. So the simple things i did to get it to go.

      First working in the blizzardy snow is a pain so i set a tarp up over the hood for me to get in so the bay and myself wont get any damper. I filled my air compresspor and blew off all around the plugs, cap, can coil. Then pulled the cap and blew the inside of that out aswell then wiped it with paper towel to insure that it was actually dry. I then sprayed WD-40 on all ignition components. I then got a small portable electric heater and put it on high under the hood for about 30 mins, pointing right at the distributor. I shuit the hood and shielded the front with the tarp. I went out and as soon as i turned the key. Bang. The lovely put of a volkswagen. So in conclusion

      1. I would check where u are parking it.
      2. Try WD-40 on the coils- cap and wires and plugs. ETC.
      3. Try a small heater under the hoofd during the night on low to keep the engine warm cozy and dry.
      3. Shield the front end.
      4. Check ur rain gutters under ur windshield to make sure water is flowing out and not into ur bay.


    25. Member Skinner's Avatar
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      01-13-2009 09:49 AM #25

      Are you still throwing a camshaft position sensor error? If so, you'll need to trace the wiring, it may be cracked somewhere. If you're throwing the code obv your ECU can't read the sensor and if it can't read the sensor for even a millisecond it'll start bucking as it won't throw fuel into the cylinders.

      I had a similar problem, thankfully tho, mine just went away.

      I would put all the marbles on the camshaft sensor wiring.


      Modified by Skinner at 9:51 AM 1-13-2009

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    26. 01-13-2009 09:50 AM #26
      It's not an ignition problem nor a cold start problem. The title is misleading as back then I thought it only did it when wet. Which is why I started a new thread.

      The engine bay is dry, no sign of anything getting in there.


    27. Member Skinner's Avatar
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      01-13-2009 09:52 AM #27
      well the sensor doesn't have to be a wet problem. If you're still getting this code, it's the biggest problem.

      I wouldn't say to get a new sensor as you're on #2 now, but def check the wiring. See if you can get someone to see if the Bently manual lists anything on testing the wiring.


      I had a similar problem, except it was my crankshaft sensor. I'd be driving down the highway then all of a sudden the car would just turn off. I feel what you're going through, but eventually my problem went away after I cleaned the sensor

      But I'd say you're going to have to trace the wiring


      Modified by Skinner at 9:59 AM 1-13-2009

      SixDigitClub
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    28. 01-13-2009 10:11 AM #28
      I'll check the wiring for the probably 10th time tonight after I get the ****ing thing towed home.

    29. 01-13-2009 10:45 AM #29
      Okay. I know that i have been driving along in 3rd or 4th geasr and the car has just turned off. Al most like a lack of fuel. The pump is good and the injectors are good. As soon as the clutch comes back out when i am in gear it fires up again. I dont know why it does it. Also sometimes it wont turn off but the rpms will drop like a hot brick. I'm thinking some sensor is gone aswell. I would say manifold pressure sensor. But u have tried that. Must be some electrical connection somewhere. I know u said the title is misleading but when does this problem usually occur? Anytime of year?

    30. 01-13-2009 11:12 AM #30
      It started doing it once in a while back in the fall. But now it happens any time I take the car out.

      I agree 100%, at this point, it's going to be wiring/ground.


    31. 01-13-2009 07:40 PM #31
      Odd. Well yes chances are very high it is something along those lines.

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