'02 1.8T Jetta not shifting gears from 1st, when cold

[asparagii]

Good afternoon all.

I bought this car ~1 month ago. It's done 90000 miles. I also own the Bently service manual for the car. The transmission is 5 speed, auto tiptronic.

A licensed dealer did the 80000 mile service at 86000 miles. I didn't own the car then though.

Was running fine in Florida (warm). I just went on a road trip ~2000 miles. Enroute, I blew an ignition coil. It was in cylinder 4 and the misfiring was shaking the car up pretty bad. Found a local mechanic (it was a small town on the weekend) and we diagnozed the problem then moved the coil to cylinder 3, as it ran a lot better. I couldn't buy the part there, so I drove ~60 miles to get to my destination, where a VW dealer was located. The shaking of the car decreased noticably over 3000 revs - you could tell it was still misfiring, but it wasn't too bad.

Next morning, on my way to the dealer to get the part, this transmission problem 1st appeared (this is about 1 week ago from the date of this post). Now it could be related, or just coincidence. The weather got noticably cooler (Nth Georgia, Sth Tenn.) hereon in. I replaced the faulty coil and now the engine's running nicely again.

Transmission problem details:
Initially it wouldn't shift out of 1st, even when up to 5000 revs - however the tiptronic indicator said it was in 2nd or 3rd - no matter how I shifted it, it stayed in first. No alarms are posted on the dashboard, from the computer. After some time going around in circles, it eventually changed gears and then worked perfectly. Upon starting and stopping multiple times that day, it worked perfectly - however next morning same deal - stuck in first. So my assumption is that the problem is due to the transmission fluid being cold. This problem has continued every morning since.

I have just arrived back in Florida last night and it's still happenning - despite the warm weather. It's also becoming more frequent - i.e. if the car's parked more than a couple hours, it'll happen. Initially this wasn't the case - it was overnight only.

My standard method of getting the car working now: Drive on backstreets @ ~3000 revs max., all the while using the tiptronic to try and get it to move from 1st to 2nd. After ~5-10 minutes of this, it'll change and then run perfectly. No alarms have ever been displayed for this on the console.

I don't know when (if ever) the auto transmission fluid has been changed. According to the Bently service manual, it is checked at 80 000, but not replaced.

I found this website - note I'm not affiliated with them. It says replace the transmission fluid and filter every 30000 miles. They have a kit for $110 to do so. It isn't Official VW equipment though - but they say it's equivalent. I would like other's opinions please - I want to do the work myself, as a first attempt anyway.

http://www.blauparts.com/vw/vw...shtml

So I s'pose want I want to know is:
1) Do you think changing the auto transmission fluid and filter is a good first step to solving this problem?
2) Do you think this kit is worthwhile and not a rip-off?
3) Other suggestions/options - am I on the right track?

Thanks in advance for any comments,
David

[asparagii]

I just rang Aamco and they told me over the phone it sounded like "morning sickness". He reckons that a "soft parts overhaul" will be required and will cost me ~$2200. He reckons oil and filter change won't help - waste of $.

What do you all think?

Regards,
David

[coolvdub]

First thing is you CAN'T change the filter on your transmission. The whole transmission has to come apart to change it. Crappy design for sure. You can however change the fluid yourself. I used the VW OEM fluid and my tranny still crapped out. I now use Mercon V which is far more inexpensive, $4 a quart versus $16 a quart if you can get it at a discount. Most dealers charge $32-40 a quart. I have used this fluid for 91k miles with no problems. I think the next thing you need to do is find somebody local with VAG-COM and do a proper scan of the TCM to check for codes. If none are presesnt, then try changing the fluid, but don't expect a miracle. You might get lucky.

[jackieheath]

my 02 1.8 jetta has been having the same problems for about 6 months now. it kept getting progresivley worse until now it takes a full 10 to 15 minutes to get it to shift from 1st to 2nd. I did a fluid change with factory fluid and that did nothing. I got the codes pulled on a vag com and it showed nothing. I have the car at a local shop right now. The mechanic is going to check the solenoids in the tranny. He thinks the one that allows the first to second upshift is not working. I am hoping he gives me a call tommorow. I will post as soon as I learn more. Please do the same if you find the anser to the problem. Thanks

[asparagii]

Thx for replies - appreciate it.

Ok will look for the Mercon V fluid Coolbdub - thx. I reckon you're right re: sussing out the VAG. I didn't realize that the TCM would still give info, if no alarms were displayed on the dashboard. Am I right in assuming no visual alarms on dashboard, may still give a reading on the VAG tool???

Jackie - sounds like we're in the same boat. I'm up to about 10-15minutes now too and it's only been 1 week - so you did ok. Yes please tell me if you discover anything - appreciate it greatly - I'll do the same for you. My goals for tomorrow are to ring a local VW dealer and get their opinion. I will look at the ATF level tommorrow if possible.

Looking in my Bentley book, it says all 9 solenoid v/v's in the valve body and the shift lock solenoid v/v are hooked up to the onboard diagnostics (OBD). Also the transmission range, shaft speed, vehicle speed, transmission rpm speed, ATF temp and brake pressure switches/sensors for are hooked up to the OBD. Therefore if I'm getting the picture, they should feedback via the Transmission Control Module and therefore be detected by a VAG tool no? If so, why aren't you getting alarms?

regards,
David

[samc]

I've got the same problem as you guys.

I've tried a fluid change and it didn't help. Jackie I hope you can post up a good solution as I can't afford the $2,xxx repair bills as the second poster.

But if you need to drive your car what I have done is start up the car, it will obviously rev a bit high. After 2 minutes or so turn off and turn back on. Wait till the idle goes down below the first line (900??) on your tachometer and then your car should start to shift. Drive normally until your car fully warms up and then it should be fine.

I know it's not a solution but more of a bandage but this is what I had to start doing to just drive my car. Sooner or later I will take my car into the mechanics as well.

[asparagii]

Thx for tips Sam. I tried it once and not sure of results yet. It def. shifted quicker than just driving around alone - but I also waited till I felt it 'try' to shift from 1st to 2nd, then I put my foot down a bit tp increase revs and it worked. Maybe took 5 minutes instead of 15? Anyway, like you say a bandaid - I need to sort this out.

I am going to the VW dealer today for a diagnostic. I don't know if I will go straight ahead with any suggested repairs - depends on price etc. This dealer and I did not get off on the right foot, so I'm a but wary of their advice and I may get a 2nd opinion first. But I will post findings.

David

[coolvdub]

Quote, originally posted by asparagii »

Thx for replies - appreciate it. Ok will look for the Mercon V fluid Coolbdub - thx. I reckon you're right re: sussing out the VAG. I didn't realize that the TCM would still give info, if no alarms were displayed on the dashboard. Am I right in assuming no visual alarms on dashboard, may still give a reading on the VAG tool??? YES Jackie - sounds like we're in the same boat. I'm up to about 10-15minutes now too and it's only been 1 week - so you did ok. Yes please tell me if you discover anything - appreciate it greatly - I'll do the same for you. My goals for tomorrow are to ring a local VW dealer and get their opinion. I will look at the ATF level tommorrow if possible. Looking in my Bentley book, it says all 9 solenoid v/v's in the valve body and the shift lock solenoid v/v are hooked up to the onboard diagnostics (OBD). Also the transmission range, shaft speed, vehicle speed, transmission rpm speed, ATF temp and brake pressure switches/sensors for are hooked up to the OBD. Therefore if I'm getting the picture, they should feedback via the Transmission Control Module and therefore be detected by a VAG tool no? If so, why aren't you getting alarms? You should have codes in the TCM, they may or may not trigger an engine CEL regards, David

[jackieheath]

I never got a CEL light. The only codes my tcm showed were a bad tip switch and shift lock solenoid. The tip switch has been bad for a while. Months before the car quit upshifting. I think the shift lock solenoid code from where I had some stuff unpluged before and started the car. I dont believe either of these would have anything to do with the car not upshifting but then again I am no V-dub tech.

[VW_FAST1.8T]

i have a tranny in my barn that came out of a 2002 gti 1.8t with 68,000 miles on it $200 and it is yours

[asparagii]

VW dealer told me that there were no error codes from TCM/ECM and transmission fluid level ok. (I assume still old fluid though). The 'adaptions' (computer reset) were done - no difference. They told me I'd need new transmission which is $5400.

I will not be doing this.

Aamco said that pretty common for transmissions this age to require new o-rings - i.e. the 'soft parts overhaul' I posted above. That price is ~$2400.

I spose next step is to find out how much a reconditioned transmission would cost. I assume that'd be more than the overhaul though.

Another option is to trade the car in on another 2nd hand car......

anyway, things I gotta weigh up.

David

[jackieheath]

Thanks for the update. I will relay this info to my mechanic. I have yet to hear from him. I am still somewhat hopeful he can find something simple and fix it. I will post any info if I get it.

[asparagii]

So the Aamco soft parts overhaul has a 12month/12000 mile warranty. They said realistically, I'll get 80000 miles min. out of this.

So I'm thinking my options are:
1) trade in jetta on another car (don't really want to do this)

2) buy another recon/used transmission and fit it (Aamco said ~$650 would be the cost of installing alone). I may try and do this myself - depends what's involved. Can anyone tell me how long this takes and how hard it is?

3) bit more extreme, but work out how hard it would be to convert car to manual transmission. This is what I wanted in the first instance, but settled on the auto tippy cause I needed a car quickly and liked everything else in the package. So I will price this option - either to get someone else to do it all, or me do some or all of the work myself. Anyone done this before? I'm sure someone would have... Once installed, I think there's less that can go wrong with a manual.

4) Get Aamco to rebuild the transmission. They'd only give me a price range $2200-2500.

I am going away for 3 weeks so will weigh it all up and deal with it when I come back.

Regards,
David


Modified by asparagii at 3:46 PM 1-10-2009

[audi10021075]

I have the exact same problem and trying to fix it.
Waiting for the part right now from 1stvwparts.
If you read my thread you can see what I did and where I am.

[asparagii]

thx Audi. Wow so many people in the same boat!

I'm a bit lost as to your current position. In Don's thread, you said fluid changes and N283 solenoid replacement didn't do anything.

Then you found that N281 was out of spec. Is this what you're currently ordering and going to replace?

David

[audi10021075]

yes, it should arrive today.
I'll post update sometime tomorrow.

[pepsiboi212]

my 92 jetta was doing the same thing, but my tranny fluid is low so im putting more in today, but the thing i found works to get it to shift when its cold is to keep it revving up around fifty five hundred rpms for five or ten seconds then it shifts fine, i just dont think this is to good for it but it works for now

[jackieheath]

Hey guys, I hope someone has figured this problem out. My car has been in the shop for over 2 weeks now. My mechanic is a very smart guy but hes not used to the vw tranny. I am going to call him tommorow and see if he has made any progress. If so I will post the findings. Best of luck to you all. I hope one of us can figure this out.

[jackieheath]

My mechanic says he is going to replace solenoid N91. He says it s 50-50 chance that it will work.

[asparagii]

Good luck Jackie. I get home next week, so will have to deal with this.

found some good research info - haven't read yet.

http://www.volkswagen.msk.ru/i...5_09a

David

Modified by asparagii at 9:35 PM 1-28-2009

[Mikey18T]

I have the same problem! I've been searching everywhere and couldn't find a thing, thinking I was the only one. I guess there's some comfort knowing others are having the same issue. I had it checked by the dealer and they couldnt' find anything. I brought it to a tranny shop and they too told me it sounded like "Morning sickness".

The odd thing is, it drives perfectly fine once warmed up. Another odd thing, not sure if it's a coincidence, but a couple of times, I've reset the ECU and it shifted just fine at startup. However this was during the summer so it could have just been the temperature.

It's killing me! I want to dump the car, but I can't knowing that it has this problem...

PLEASE PLEASE figure this out. I have faith in you guys.

[jackieheath]

Hey, my mechanic is raplacing the N92 solenoid. He says there is a 50/50 chance that it will work. I will post on either teusday or wednesday as soon as he gets done with it.

[audi10021075]

Quote, originally posted by asparagii »

http://www.volkswagen.msk.ru/i...5_09a

Great link!!!!
Load of information

[asparagii]

From reading the Self-study on VW 09A transmissions (from the Russian site I linked above), I’ve put together this plan of attack for sussing out my problem. Please feel free to constructively critique – I don’t have a lot of mechanical knowledge – though am keen to learn. I also am thinking aloud in this post – so my train of thought may be a little disorganized.

I believe the most likely area of fault is with hydraulic oil pressure/temp. This is evidenced by the fact that the car works well once warm, but always suffers the problem initially – read whole thread for more info.

All Potential areas of fault I can think of from manual:

•ECU/TCU/engine torque sensor – In vehicles with Electric Accelerator Pedal Control (I have to find out if my car has this) engine torque data is sent to the TCU via the ECU. The TCU tells the ECU when it wants to change gears and the ECU lowers engine torque to allow the TCU to close clutches/breaks at lower pressure, making the gear change smoother – refer p.37. Therefore if there were any problem with the ECU, TCU or engine torque signal, this would manifest in less than optimal gear changes. However I think a fault in this area would be always evident (not only when cold) - agree?

•ATF temperature sensor (G93) – TCU uses ATF temperature data from this sensor to control gear changes. A high shift pressure is used at low ATF temperatures and varied as temp rises. If sensor fails, gearbox performs gearshifts at higher ATF pressures. This data is used at ATF temps. <70 degrees celcius – refer p.41-42. If this was playing up, it could be the culprit – but OBD should monitor this and VW dealer told me no VAG codes (will confirm – I just bought a VAG-COM).

•Solenoids – N88, 89 and 92 are used in 1st gear, but N92 is de-energized to go to 2nd. Possible this’s sticking? But not sure why that wouldn’t continue to be the case once pressure/temp is high – only thing I can think of is the viscosity of the ATF is higher when cold. Refer p.53. Again, could be the culprit – but OBD should monitor this and VW dealer told me no VAG codes (will confirm – I just bought a VAG-COM).

•Gear changes require individual brake/clutch operation (Clutch K2 and brake B2 must close for 2nd gear). There is also an accumulator on each brake/clutch, to dampen closure. If any of these failed, the gear change would be affected. (refer p.19 and 22, 24-25). But I think this would continue to be an issue when ATF warm, not just when cold - agree? Makes me think these are ok and the problem is hydraulic.

•ATF fluid itself – if chemically exhausted, or wrong level, it won’t work as reqd. VW dealer told me fluid level ok – I will confirm.

•ATF pump – this pump moves oil from the sump and transfers it to the v/v body. It is responsible for ATF pressure. Refer p.13. Is this monitored by OBD?

Most likely areas of fault that I can think of: ATF level/composition, ATF p/p. (This assumes my VAG-COM data confirms what the VW dealer told me about no OBD alarms – ATF temp. sensor ok, engine torque sensor ok, all solenoid v/v’s ok, etc).

Don’t know if all this stuff is replaceable if at fault – eg how hard is it to pull all of the transmission apart if say the fault is with the ATF pump? I just moved countries so don’t have many tools. I don’t mind buying cheap stuff, but won’t be buying crazy priced stuff. I also live in an Apt. complex which has no garage, so they aren’t real friendly with people doing work in the carpark – I have a couple friends with garages and tools though, so might be fine. Also got to work out logistics – only 1 car – how long will this be out of action for if I’m prodding transmission internals?

Plan of attack (in order):
1)check fluid level – if low, top up;
2)check reference resistances – if a problem, determine whether it’s wiring harness or solenoid;
3)check ECU/TCU/engine torque sensor – simple check?
4)ATF oil pump – Simple check?
5)ATF temp sensor – Simple check? Should be monitored by OBD.

David

[asparagii]

well I just scanned car with my new VAG-COM and found a couple alarms.

1) O2 sensor alarm from catalytic converter - if I were a betting man I'd say this was due to me driving it when it was misfiring - I read that may damage the O2 sensors

2)Shift lock solenoid in Tippy!! Now this suprises me as the VW dealer tld me it had no alarms. But I don't trust them - had a previous run in with them. Hard to say whether they were lying or not, but I do know I have only driven the car a couple times since I left their dealership.

Anyway, I cleared all alarms and will check tomorrow if they're re-appeared.

DAvid

[asparagii]

repeated the scan 24 hrs later, having driven to and from work.

catalytic converter alarm not present, but shift lock solenoid alarm back again. So that's def. a problem and needs replacing. From what I understand, this shouldn't be the cause of my problems though - seems to be a safety mechanism only.

One interesting thing worthy of mention is that my VAG-COM crapped out on me multiple times when trying to read bank 05 on the 02 auto transmission control module. Error came up: ‘Session unreliable: too many communications errors to continue’. (I don't have the 4 bank 05 parameters it was trying to read in front of me). VAG-COM seemed to have no problem reading other banks in auto tranny CM. Also performed entire system scan and connected to other system's control moudules no dramas. I will post this in VAG-COM forum for info.

sigh!

regards,
David

[coolvdub]

David,
The Measuring block 5 happens on my car also. I think it is normal. I just bypass it and go on.

[jackieheath]

Great news. Solenoid N92 fixed my little jetta. I hope that this helps some of you.

[audi10021075]

was there anything else your mechanic did?
was it just N92?
did your tranny ever went into limp mode?
I am real desperate to fix my tranny, and I don't want to spend $4k to replace it.

Dave

[jackieheath]

yes my tranny went into limp mode. it wouldnt get out of first gear until it got warm (about 15 minutes of driving in first). My mechanic said it took 90 psi of air pressure to open the N92 solenoid. He only had to blow into the new one to open it. I did a fluid change before I took it to him and it didnt help at all. He told me that he even screened and reused the old fluid that he drained out to preserve the clutches.

[audi10021075]

thanks
maybe there is a hope for me.
if I change N92 then this would be third solenoid change (N281 & N282) for me.

[jackieheath]

I hope N92 will help you out. It definitely fixed mine. This thread is pretty much the only info on this tranny subject on the whole web. When I first started searching for info I found next to nothing. I dont know if N92 will fix all trannys stuck in first but trying it beats paying the dealer. Thanks to everyone for all their input.

[asparagii]

Glad yours worked out Jackie - thx for update. So you said the VAG scan came up empty right? But the N92 solenoid was still shagged - interesting... wonder why - OBD not working? Or maybe the resistance was fine, but it was stuck mechanically, or perished seal etc?? IDK.....Self study does say that N92 is energised in 1st, but must de-energise to go to 2nd and the whole thing about car working fine with temp/pressure does make problem sound hydraulic. Worth a shot - the one mob I rang up charged $52 a solenoid - a couple of them much cheaper than rebuild.

My project has pretty much come to a standstill. I'm about to be posted off again with work, so my car will spend months in a mate's garage - waiting for me to deal with it when I get back.

I had it booked into a Euro transmission workship near Atlanta (I was sposed to be going there for work this week for a month, but that got cancelled last minute). Plan was to get the soft parts rebuild - they were going to do for $2250. They were helpful people. Told me I could buy the repair manual for 09A from the OEM: Jatco JF506e gearbox - got all info. I found it on web for ~$20, but unfortunately I don't have the time, tools or spare car to get into it at the moment.

I did find the best way to get my car to shift when starting, was to leave it in neutral for ~5 minutes. This was opposed to driving around car parks at 10mph and 3000revs for 10 minutes looking like a goose

DAvid.

[crawl]

Count me in Just got new used Jetta with 84k on the clock and I have similar problem. Although I would not say it shifts a lot better when warmed up. Pulling from the light is still a hassle.

How much was solenoid repair?

[jackieheath]

Total for me was 357.00 I think the solenoid was about 90.00 Also my mechanic reused old dluid since I had just done a change. Good luck. There is a lot of good info in these forums.