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    Thread: The Borgward empire (pic intensive)

    1. 01-11-2009 06:53 PM #26
      Quote, originally posted by Buckeye(OH) »
      what is up with the negative rear camber in the minivan? I mean ive seen Westfalias and stuff with negative rear, but that is intense! Especially on the blue and white one.

      i noticed that too. i can only guess it has something to do with the rear suspension layout.

    2. Member Live-Wire's Avatar
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      01-11-2009 07:00 PM #27
      Quote, originally posted by demanufacture »
      i noticed that too. i can only guess it has something to do with the rear suspension layout.

      Possibly oversprung when it was unloaded so it would be at the correct position when it was carrying a load of passengers?
      I'm tuned in for the Goliath update... this is a good thread!

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      01-12-2009 01:26 AM #28
      Quote, originally posted by Buckeye(OH) »
      what is up with the negative rear camber in the minivan? I mean ive seen Westfalias and stuff with negative rear, but that is intense! Especially on the blue and white one.

      and by negative, i meant positive

    4. 01-12-2009 02:24 AM #29
      If I am not mistaken, the motor and driveline tooling for the Arabella, was sold to Fuji Heavy Industries and was the basis of todays Subaru.

    5. 01-12-2009 02:41 AM #30
      very cool, My grandfather apparently owned one when my dad was a kid. My dad and grandfather have mentioned it before.

    6. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      01-12-2009 04:30 AM #31
      We borrowed this one from my uncle, a couple of times, before my father was able to get a company car when needed. Across northern Germany with 4 kids in the back (two teenagers and a first-grader on the rear bench, and mini-me stretching across the back foot room, among six legs and a couple of bags...

      And yes, all of these were very popular and all over the place - especially in northern Germany - in the fifties until the early sixties.
      After incessant complaints from a to z, I am now calling all of my characters "special."

    7. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      01-12-2009 06:54 AM #32
      Apart from the Hansa-Lloyd, the Arabella was definitely one of the more affordable and desirable ones. I would venture as far as saying that the Arabella and similar NSU models where quite avantgarde in design, and definitely lay the groundwork for future Opel and VW/Audi model designs.
      After incessant complaints from a to z, I am now calling all of my characters "special."

    8. Member Turq's Avatar
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      01-12-2009 09:18 AM #33
      Quote, originally posted by vw181 »
      If I am not mistaken, the motor and driveline tooling for the Arabella, was sold to Fuji Heavy Industries and was the basis of todays Subaru.

      FHI engineers admit they copied a few things from Lloyd (some of the engine design and the front suspension), but there was no direct exchange of intellectual property, the Japanese were just very adept at borrowing others' ideas and re-engineering them. Subaru's engine, while similar to Lloyd's, has the camshaft in a different location, and a few other differences.
      FHI engineers were also big fans of the VW Beetle and it's somewhat similar flat powerplant.
      "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light."
      - Plato

    9. Member chucchinchilla's Avatar
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      01-12-2009 09:24 AM #34
      Cool thread. Never knew any of these existed. It's interesting to see how some of these resemble other vehicles.
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      This forum is more and more of an embarrassment every day...

    10. Member Lethbridge_man's Avatar
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      01-12-2009 09:45 AM #35
      Wonderful thread! And I really like cars with feminine names, especially when they are slightly aristocratic. I would love to have a car named Isabella!

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      01-12-2009 10:00 AM #36
      Quote, originally posted by feels_road »

      Interestingly enough:
      Nowdays us made cars what you're proud of

    12. 01-12-2009 10:06 AM #37
      Quote, originally posted by demanufacture »
      -Lloyd LP300
      ...this vehicle has wooden body panels wrapped in fake leather...

      that's pretty interesting. not to veer OT, but does anybody know of any similar postwar steel substitution?

    13. Member Kar98's Avatar
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      01-12-2009 10:13 AM #38
      Quote, originally posted by snailpusher »
      that's pretty interesting. not to veer OT, but does anybody know of any similar postwar steel substitution?

      See my post above
      The one had body panels made from baked, resin-drenched fabric shreds.
      A couple of years before that, the factory was building cars from plywood covered in faux leather.
      Nowdays us made cars what you're proud of

    14. 01-12-2009 10:21 AM #39
      Wow, awesome thread! Waiitng for 'Goliath' update!

    15. 01-12-2009 04:01 PM #40
      Third Chapter: Goliath

      Goliath started off 1949 after the Bremen plant, which had been destroyed during WW2, was rebuilt. It fit into Borgwards empire as a producer of small commercial vehicles.
      -Goliath GD750
      Goliath had a pre-war history of building three-wheelers, so their first after-war vehicle became this small three-wheeled truck. It is equipped with a small two-stroke engine, directing the power to the rear wheels. Beeing cheap and very useful, it became an instant sales success.



      -GP700
      In 1950 Goliath presented this very modern FWD car, sporting a 700ccm 2cyl two-stroke engine. Direct fuel injection became available with this engine in 1952 (!).
      early models:



      later model:

      -GP700 Sport
      To advertise the new fuel injected engine, Goliath offered a very expensive supercar in 1951, equipped with said engine. The engineering was top notch for its time: Aluminum body on a wood frame, constructed by Rommetsch, Berlin (some may recognize this company by the beetle cab conversions they built later). 26 or 27 (depending on source ) were built, only two survived.


      -Express
      This FWD van is based on the GP700 frame.


      Goliath even built a luxury version to battle VWs Samba bus, but despite beeing cheaper, the Express never reached Samba sales figures. Only 500 produced.

      -Goli
      next generation of the GD750 three-wheeler.

      compared to the old one:

      -GP1100
      successor to the GP700, but this time with a 4cyl boxer engine!
      Kombi:


      Coupe:

      2-door:

      Borgward and its daughters went bankrupt in 1961.


      the end.

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      01-12-2009 06:12 PM #41
      Put a Porsche badge on the front and a couple of those are dead ringers for 550 Spyders.

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      11-02-2010 10:24 AM #42
      Were these not sold in the USA? I have been trying to figure out what strange car my neighbor has, and I have now figured out it is an Isabella 2 door! It is pristine, I'll try to snap a picture...

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      11-02-2010 10:42 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by Buckeye(OH) View Post
      what is up with the negative rear camber in the minivan? I mean ive seen Westfalias and stuff with negative rear, but that is intense! Especially on the blue and white one.
      I'm willing to wager that it had a swing axle rear end. Because the axles pivot from a central point, when the car is unloaded and at rest(IE suspension is not compressed) the axles are angled down from the differential. This would give the car its strong positive-camber stance.
      2005 Subaru Forester X/1980 Honda CM400E/1987 Porsche 944S

      BattleRabbit takes Pictures!

    19. Member KahviVW's Avatar
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      11-02-2010 11:10 AM #44
      Thanks for the bump. I missed this thread before.
      Quote Originally Posted by rich! View Post
      i'd lock this thread but i have no clue how...

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      11-03-2010 11:12 PM #45
      Good stuff
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    21. Member Darkness's Avatar
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      11-03-2010 11:25 PM #46
      Lloyd; what a perfect name for this little guy!

      Quote Originally Posted by demanufacture View Post

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      11-03-2010 11:48 PM #47
      I have nothing to add, other than there is a Bogward and a Lloyd that sometimes show up at the locals shows. Cool stuff, gotta be a bitch to find parts for in Minnesota.


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      11-04-2010 12:04 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by KahviVW View Post
      Thanks for the bump. I missed this thread before.

      ditto
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryukein, April 4, 2017 View Post
      Well, I was wrong.

    24. Member sandiegan's Avatar
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      11-04-2010 12:17 AM #49
      Still waiting for my answer... How did these end up stateside?

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