NASCAR Race Talk

[gonzo08452]

Still going with #5 for this weekend

[SoCal_SFVR6]

Quote, originally posted by gonzo08452 »

Still going with #5 for this weekend

How great would that be for him. I love Jeff for the win and Kurt didn't have as fast of a practice session as I had expected.

[gonzo08452]

Quote, originally posted by SoCal_SFVR6 »

How great would that be for him. I love Jeff for the win and Kurt didn't have as fast of a practice session as I had expected.

They need to have a great weekend and I think they will. win or no win. I just can't see Mark falling out of the top 35.

[theshmoes]

congrats to kyle busch

good day for newman and martin. they both needed it.

btw, allmendingers season has been extended another 5 races.

[SoCal_SFVR6]

Bad news for Logano.
Kyle is really ruining my Sundays.

[gonzo08452]

Quote, originally posted by SoCal_SFVR6 »

Bad news for Logano. Kyle is really ruining my Sundays.

Just thing how worst it would have been had Kyle won yesterday Well, Logano is barely in the top 35. Sucks for Kvapil

[b2m_vw]

Quote, originally posted by SoCal_SFVR6 »

Bad news for Logano.

And Martinsville is next week

[gonzo08452]

Quote, originally posted by SoCal_SFVR6 »

Bad news for Logano. Kyle is really ruining my Sundays.

and Scott Speed ...and dare I say it, The 88


Modified by gonzo08452 at 9:16 AM 3-23-2009

[SoCal_SFVR6]

Im just getting really sick of every other weekend for the past year, Kyle uses pit strategy and gets out front and somehow holds on to it and wins.
To this day, I still have NO understanding of how he gained the lead at Watkins Glen last year, he just always seems to get the lead through strategy and hold on all day. Why does his car pull out to 5 of 6 car length leads at restrictor plate tracks? Either Steve Addington is up to something really sneaky or Kyle just fits the cot I guess. Im not sure if Im making sense or just ranting , but to recap, Im sick of Kyle and the cot combo.

Why did the 18 car struggle for top 20 finishes with JJ Yeley? and Kyle gets himself like 11 wins? Guess the kids just that good. Oh and another thing, Bristol + repave + cot = no longer fun to watch. IMO.

[b2m_vw]

Someone woke up on the wrong side of his #48 sheets this morning

I think the COT has made some tracks less interesting to watch, Bristol being one of those.

I think Kyle clicks with this team. When Gibbs started up the 11 with Leffler, Leffler couldn't make races. They put Hamlin in and BAM! That team is a contender week in and week out. You could say the same for the 20 this year. Given he's just a rookie, but Logano makes the enitire 20 team look like a bunch of amateurs. I don't know if he's cracked the top 10 during the course of a race yet (other than during pit stops or staying out a lap under caution). Certain guys just click with certain teams.

[SoCal_SFVR6]

I guess I know how the old school fans felt when Jeff came in and started winning all the time. Atleast on the bright side.....Martinsville is comming up! Either Jeff or Jimmie should get the first win of the year there.

[b2m_vw]

It seems like the media is all hyped up on the Busch/Jr feud. I guess Busch made some comments in-race and after the race about Jr. And now all of the sudden everyone is on Tony Jr and Jr saying they need to break up. Have they been watching our thread???

[gonzo08452]

Quote, originally posted by b2m_vw »

It seems like the media is all hyped up on the Busch/Jr feud. I guess Busch made some comments in-race and after the race about Jr. And now all of the sudden everyone is on Tony Jr and Jr saying they need to break up. Have they been watching our thread???

did not here about this. As far as the Jr and Jr combo? I just think they're delaying the inevitable and its pretty obvious where this is headed. I do know Busch and Jr don't like one another when I heard Jr admit he does not like Kyle during an interview last season. It will be interesting to see what Hendrick will do though.

[GreenandChrome]

dunno about in-race comments, but Kyle was quoted to the effect of "we all know who is and always will be number 1."

The kid can drive, no doubt. His actions in the Nationwide race, however, entrench my belief that he's a spoiled immature brat and should be fired and let him go to F1. Things go wrong, people make mistakes. If a crew guy went up to Kyle and said: "We spent 3 weeks building that car and you destroyed it with that stupid move. You suck." - guess what would happen to that crew guy?

The desire is to win every race. It will never happen, but aiming for it is key. If it doesn't happen, no matter how good your car was, storming off, blaming your crew, throwing things, will not bring that win back.

Any athlete that throws tantrums loses fans and ultimately jobs. Sure, they may find another job somewhere else, but will the chemistry to win be there? Prolly not.

[b2m_vw]

He made some comments I guess when a "phantom debris" caution came out and he saw that the lucky dog was Jr. He also said after the race "There's probably too much pressure on one guy's shoulders who doesn't seem to win very often," "But for us, it's a blast to go out there and do what we do."

I love this type of feud. Maybe this will spark Jr to actually give a damn (or at least look like he's gives a damn) about racing rather than selling his name. Jr's only had 3 wins since the 05 season started.

[SoCal_SFVR6]

Quote, originally posted by b2m_vw »

"There's probably too much pressure on one guy's shoulders who doesn't seem to win very often," .

wow. As soon as he came off of turn 4 on the last lap, I turned the tv off in anger so I didn't hear that. Hopefully it fires Jr up. I tell ya what, if I was in cup I wouldn't let that skinny lil punk trash talk me.

[gonzo08452]

So, who will take the win at the paper clip? I think it will be a Roush since they had a horrible showing at Bristol. Concrete Carl was their top finsiher

[b2m_vw]

I will have to go with SoCal's picks for M'ville, either the 24 or the 48. Also don't be surprised to see the 39 fighting for the win. Newman seems to always be up front here.

[gonzo08452]

Quote, originally posted by b2m_vw »

I will have to go with SoCal's picks for M'ville, either the 24 or the 48. Also don't be surprised to see the 39 fighting for the win. Newman seems to always be up front here.

The 39 is defenitley in contention. That being said, I think you can also add Rueteman (did I spell that correctly?) to that list.

[SoCal_SFVR6]

Jeff is going to get his steak breaking win this Sunday. He WILL move whoever is in front of him, if it comes to it.

[GreenandChrome]

Hendrick car FTW. Possibly Stewart.

As far as the Dale & Tony Jr debacle goes on, here's what it comes down to:

Performance. Dale hasn't performed well since Tony Sr. left. Something is amiss, and you can point to the concussion in '02, constant crew chief changes in '05, and DEI disputes in '06 and '07 as causes of distraction.

Rick needs to have "the talk" just like he did with Knaus and Johnson. Heck, maybe ol' Ray will come back next year, since he's been outed as an owner.

Bottom line is Dale needs a new crew chief that will take the team to the next level. Eury, Jr. might just be a very capable car chief, not a crew chief.

Yeah, Dale may not be the "best" driver, but he's won 18 times at the top level and won 2 Busch championship. I'd take him over AJ, Mears, Sorenson, Montoya, Petty, W. Burton, Reutimann, or Waltrip any day of the week in a stock car.

[gonzo08452]

they did have the talk....took 3 hours

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/29880666/

Modified by gonzo08452 at 5:38 PM 3-25-2009

[SoCal_SFVR6]

Im actually surprised Mr.H is putting up with the sub-par performance.

[gonzo08452]

Just wondering, why no love for Burton the guys is what, a 15 or 16 year veteran with probably 18-25 wins? I've always liked the way he races. He doesn't always have the best car but yet is consistent in finishing in the top 12. He just sort of sneaks up on people. He could be a lap or two down then next thing you know, bam!! , he is in contention. Just sayin..

[b2m_vw]

Quote, originally posted by gonzo08452 »

Just wondering, why no love for Burton the guys is what, a 15 or 16 year veteran with probably 18-25 wins? I've always liked the way he races. He doesn't always have the best car but yet is consistent in finishing in the top 12. He just sort of sneaks up on people. He could be a lap or two down then next thing you know, bam!! , he is in contention. Just sayin..

He reminds me of Mark Martin, always up there, takes care of stuff, and really just consistent week-in week-out. But you pretty much know at the end of the year he just won't be there (the top of the standings) for some reason.

[SoCal_SFVR6]

Quote, originally posted by b2m_vw »

But you pretty much know at the end of the year he just won't be there (the top of the standings) for some reason.

Yea, I don't see him winning a Chase in his career.

[b2m_vw]

Quote, originally posted by SoCal_SFVR6 »

Im actually surprised Mr.H is putting up with the sub-par performance.

Ah, Mr. H has always had one of his teams (the 25) be mediocre. Now he just makes more money with Jr being that team JK.

I don't think we'll see any dramatic turn around in the 88 team this year. It all comes down to Jr. He's changed, his attitude, demeaner, everything. Look at JG, he's been the same type of person with the same type of outlook on racing his entire career. Sure, he's gotten older and wiser, but he's still the same guy. Jr isn't even the same guy he was 5 years ago. That's something that Mr. H cannot fix. Jr's in the best equipment with the best team in the sport. He b**ched and moaned at DEI about their stuff always being behind everyone else. Well now, he's got everything he wanted and can't back it up. I thought definitely Jr was going to be better than this, now I'm beginning to think he's really not as good as I thought he was.

[SoCal_SFVR6]

Quote, originally posted by b2m_vw »

now I'm beginning to think he's really not as good as I thought he was.

Im starting to agree, even thought I really don't want to.

Wasn't the rumor a few years ago that the 25 team was strictly on track for R&D, posing as a legitimate race team?

[b2m_vw]

It wouldn't surprise me about the 25. I wonder if Mr. H regrets letting go of Rowdy? He could've still got Jr and let go of Mears. Which by the way just blows this year. Mears is going to be on out here shortly or looking for N-wide rides if he doesn't get it together. He did nothing in the 41, 42, 5, and so far no signs at all in the 07.

[SoCal_SFVR6]

For whatever reason. I don't think Kyle would have had this much success with Hendrick, plus the team was sick of his attitude. Remember when Jr finished a race for him? Kyle vs Casey a few years ago, Kyle saying "They suck" on tv... etc...

Yea, Mears needs to walk away and drive Indy cars or something else. I really like the guy, but you can't blow opportunity after opportunity and expect to keep a ride.

[GreenandChrome]

Burton and Boyer are similar drivers, and I think that's what RCR likes. Not flashy, but consistent. Kinda like Terry Labonte was in '96 for HMS. No one would have expected him to win the championship.

One could say Kenseth is similar to both, but usually Kenseth stays up front most of the day. Burton and Boyer usually work through the field it seems like. I'm sure Nascar.com has some data that disproves my theory, so I'm not absolute on that theory.

The issue with consistent drivers is that during the middle of the race they're stuck with fast, but unreliable, drivers who end up crashing, and they get caught up in it.

Then during the playoffs, the consistent drivers try two things- be uber-consistent and end up not taking the extra risks for the 5-10 points per position. Or they drastically change driving styles and be uber-aggressive and crash or get stuck in bad situations.

Drivers who drive for points will always drive for points. Drivers who drive for wins will always drive for wins. When the driver changes styles, bad things happen because its a new method, and they are still wired to be the other.

Is that confusing anyone? I can clarify it in another post. This one's gone too long as it is.

[b2m_vw]

I agree. I think also with the drivers who race for points (Burton, Bowyer, Martin, Kenseth, etc) is that they are good for top 10's during the year (why Kenseth won his title, and why Martin was always #2). Now with the Chase, Johnson, Edwards, and Busch (though Busch tends to crash a lot in the chase) have set the standard that you either have to win or finish in the top 5 all 10 races to win the championship. Top 10's really don't do much for you these days. They'll get you in the chase, but that's about it.

[gonzo08452]

Quote, originally posted by b2m_vw »

Ah, Mr. H has always had one of his teams (the 25) be mediocre. Now he just makes more money with Jr being that team JK. I don't think we'll see any dramatic turn around in the 88 team this year. It all comes down to Jr. He's changed, his attitude, demeaner, everything. Look at JG, he's been the same type of person with the same type of outlook on racing his entire career. Sure, he's gotten older and wiser, but he's still the same guy. Jr isn't even the same guy he was 5 years ago. That's something that Mr. H cannot fix. Jr's in the best equipment with the best team in the sport. He b**ched and moaned at DEI about their stuff always being behind everyone else. Well now, he's got everything he wanted and can't back it up. I thought definitely Jr was going to be better than this, now I'm beginning to think he's really not as good as I thought he was.

I agree but I also think it has a lot to do with the relationship between Dale and Tony. Mark Martin described it as like a married couple meaning they have a good relationship and they can say ANYTHING to each other. Maybe the stuff that Jr says to Tony and vice versa say to each other comes off as being disrespectful to the eyes of his crew members. This can come off as being unprofessional and like I said before, too loose. The team can get complacent if they're not held accountable or can get comfortable and feel they don't need to put in a 100% effort. Tony needs to set the example and expectation to the rest of the team including Dale. I think when they look for leadership, they look past Tony Jr and instead, look for Hendrick. Dale Jr needs to start by having a more professional exchange with Tony. After the races, they can say and do whatever they want to one another.

[GreenandChrome]

Quote, originally posted by SoCal_SFVR6 »

Im starting to agree, even thought I really don't want to. Wasn't the rumor a few years ago that the 25 team was strictly on track for R&D, posing as a legitimate race team?

No one would confirm that, seeing how UAW/Delphi/Budweiser/Kelloggs wouldn't want to pay ~$20 million for R&D.

Take a look at the Roush organization. I think they have it figured out with the R&D team. It looks like they rotate the R&D team year to year. Kenseth does good one year, then Busch, then Biffle, then Edwards. (This example doesn't prove the existence who is an R&D team, just that it's peculiar that individual RFR drivers have fantastic years, but not all of them)

If that's the case, then McMurray needs to go. Unless RFR has changed formats and he's the R&D team.

[b2m_vw]

Good points!

I also think Jr has to show he has confidence in his crew and crew chief. He's always blaming Tony Jr that the car sucks, or why can't Tony Jr fix the damn thing. That may trickle down the crew and guys back at the shop where they think Jr doesn't have the confidence in his team. Tony Jr can only do so much, and a lot of what he does to the car is based on what the driver (Jr) tells him is wrong with it. That's always been an issue for those two is not being able to adjust a car for better during the course of a race.