Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
    Results 1 to 35 of 46

    Thread: Geneva 2009 - Volkswagen Polo BlueMotion

    1. Administrator jamie@vwvortex's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 16th, 1999
      Location
      Glen Ellyn, IL
      Posts
      12,939
      03-03-2009 05:24 PM #1

    2. 03-03-2009 06:23 PM #2
      not going to happen stateside :-/

    3. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 27th, 2005
      Location
      East Bay Area
      Posts
      22,889
      Vehicles
      2010 MkVI MT TDI Golf, 2000 B5 4M Passat Wagon
      03-03-2009 07:06 PM #3
      I like the concept where the BlueMotion package is available on any trim level, with any engine, as an additional option.
      For example, I would want to have more of the equipment running electrically, have regenerative braking and start/stop, and the aerodynamic package. But I don't want a 75hp engine, and the low-resistance tires/ skinny wheels would be easy to swap out.
      Is start/stop available on any of the turboed engines?
      Aung San Suu Kyi

    4. Member vesvw's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 5th, 2001
      Location
      Utah
      Posts
      2,214
      Vehicles
      89 Jetta coupe, 98 M3
      03-03-2009 10:06 PM #4
      woopty doo. Vw would clean house against hybrids with this car in the US but oh well

    5. Member
      Join Date
      Dec 19th, 2000
      Location
      Austin, TX
      Posts
      158
      03-03-2009 10:33 PM #5
      Unfortunately this car and others like it have a better chance of coming to the US when gas prices are crazy high. I just wish VW would bring it here now so I can get one before gas prices go back up. Rest assured, they will. A lot.

    6. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 27th, 2005
      Location
      East Bay Area
      Posts
      22,889
      Vehicles
      2010 MkVI MT TDI Golf, 2000 B5 4M Passat Wagon
      03-03-2009 10:56 PM #6
      Quote, originally posted by vesvw »
      woopty doo. Vw would clean house against hybrids with this car in the US but oh well

      Not really - the Polo is one to three classes smaller than the hybrids available in the US. Different market segment.
      Where are the BlueMotion Golf, Jetta sedan/wagen and Passat?
      Aung San Suu Kyi

    7. Administrator jamie@vwvortex's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 16th, 1999
      Location
      Glen Ellyn, IL
      Posts
      12,939
      03-03-2009 11:11 PM #7
      The unfortunate reality for really small compact cars and entry-level product like this is that the margins are lousy and you would need to move significant volume in units to make it worthwhile. Even Honda struggles with the Fit in terms of profit margins.
      We'll see if the Polo makes it here.

    8. Member
      Join Date
      Jun 14th, 2001
      Location
      Music City USA
      Posts
      8,342
      Vehicles
      79 Scirocco 82 Rabbit Truck 85 Golf D 87 GTI 97 Passat TDI 03 TT
      03-03-2009 11:24 PM #8
      OH Pleeze VW, we are so tired of the cars you refuse to send here...
      Thankfully we can buy a Prius, they are so sporting.

    9. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 27th, 2005
      Location
      East Bay Area
      Posts
      22,889
      Vehicles
      2010 MkVI MT TDI Golf, 2000 B5 4M Passat Wagon
      03-04-2009 12:24 AM #9
      Quote, originally posted by jamie@vwvortex »
      We'll see if the Polo makes it here.

      Jamie, with VW brass almost announcing publicly that it will come here, I had hoped you could say more than that.
      At one point, it was stated that the Polo would likely be built at Puebla, alongside the new-platform-based "Jetta" (in addition to European production). In fact, I would have thought the Puebla plant expansion and tooling should soon be finished. Any news on that? Or is VW taking it slowly, given the current sales environment?
      PS - I agree that there would not be enough volume for a BlueMotion Polo, initially. But at least give us the regular one! And not with 100hp engines. Americans don't like "small" (i.e., underpowered) engines...
      Aung San Suu Kyi

    10. Senior Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 5th, 2004
      Location
      Southern Indiana
      Posts
      24,373
      Vehicles
      '66 Beetle (X2) '08 Fit
      03-04-2009 10:46 AM #10
      Quote, originally posted by article »
      As the driver approaches a red stop light in the Polo BlueMotion concept car, he or she applies the brakes to bring the vehicle to a stop, shifts into neutral (which should be standard practice with a conventional car) and takes his or her foot off the clutch. This shuts off the engine momentarily. A "Start Stop" message now appears in the multifunctional display. As soon as the traffic light turns green again, the driver fully depresses the clutch, the engine starts, the "Start Stop" message disappears, and the driver puts the car back in gear and resumes driving.

      This is my favorite part. This is exactly what I would want. Fortunately for me, I understand that I'm an anomaly and this car, in it's current iteration, probably wouldn't sell well enough here. I know people say it all the time, but if it were affordable, I'd buy one of these. (I don't think I've actually said that before)
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    11. Member Peter_Rabbit's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 9th, 2005
      Location
      Portland, OR USA
      Posts
      3,840
      Vehicles
      1996 Porsche 993 (911); 2011 VW JSW TDI 3-pedals
      03-04-2009 11:05 AM #11
      THIS IS GREAT!! I am very pleased to see that a manual transmission can work with the leading technology of start/stop. This paves the way for hybrid (gas) with manual transmission, and opens the possibility for deisel-hybrids with manual transmissions. The technology - if it works as discussed - is awesome. Future looks bright for us and vW.

    12. Member FlyBy's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 27th, 2004
      Location
      OH
      Posts
      10,531
      Vehicles
      2002 Jetta Wagon, 2004 Jetta Sedan
      03-04-2009 12:53 PM #12
      Something needs to happen in this country and soon. There is no reason that cars like these BlueMotion models can't come to the states. Evey new car is going to have a hard time selling here, but you know what's kept me from buying a hybrid? (besides the fact they're all Toyota's and Hondas, and I don't even consider the American BS attempt in SUV's) is the battery packs, and they're all automatics.
      Can you imagine the cost of replacing all of those batteries? And the fact that they're all regular gasoline, and the BlueMotion cars are already taking great diesel mileage and taking it to another level, along with super low emissions.
      I say, redesign the bumpers for US/CAN regulations (can't be hard, Hyundai Accent's are street legal ) and bring them over here. I'd for sure take out a loan and have a car payment again to own one. And I already drive a 2.0 mkIV Wagon, so the 75hp motor would feel just fine to me.
      So VWoA, get VWgmBH to bring the BlueMotion vehicles over here this time!
      Beige Glovebox FS: PM me.

    13. Member scidanw's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 11th, 2007
      Location
      Statesboro, GA
      Posts
      285
      Vehicles
      87 Scirocco 16v, 00 Jetta TDI, 07 Rabbit
      03-04-2009 01:33 PM #13
      Quote, originally posted by FlyBy »
      And I already drive a 2.0 mkIV Wagon, so the 75hp motor would feel just fine to me.
      So VWoA, get VWgmBH to bring the BlueMotion vehicles over here this time!

      I agree with you. 75 hp in a 2,380 pound car can't be much worse than what I already have (90 hp in a 3,999 pound Jetta). If it meant I could play with getting even higher fuel efficiency (personal best avg of 58 mpg), I would sell off all three of our current VW's and take on a car payment.

    14. 03-04-2009 06:18 PM #14
      one ugly little car
      Most people think Time is like a river, that flows swift and sure in one direction but I have seen the face of time and can tell you they are wrong. Time is like an ocean in a storm, you may wonder who I am and why I say this ,sit down and I will tell you a tale like none that you have ever heard.

    15. Member .:3513's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 11th, 2009
      Location
      Long Beach CA
      Posts
      1,935
      Vehicles
      Imola
      03-05-2009 01:17 AM #15
      Looks too similar to the GTi.
      AE #3513 l Go Lakers

    16. Banned
      Join Date
      Feb 25th, 2005
      Posts
      148
      03-05-2009 05:08 AM #16
      Hey in regards to the Polo Blue Motion beeing underpowered. Drive the 2006 Polo Blue Motion and you'll see if it's underpowered or not. The car runs good and fast but consumes little amounts of fuel. I've driven one and the car would perfectly serve it's purpose of hauling us Humans arround. If you wanna go racing or speeding you can always keep an R32 on the side.
      [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    17. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 27th, 2005
      Location
      East Bay Area
      Posts
      22,889
      Vehicles
      2010 MkVI MT TDI Golf, 2000 B5 4M Passat Wagon
      03-05-2009 05:34 AM #17
      At least in my opinion, even the regular Polo would be a total flop in the US if it came with a 75hp or even 100hp engine. Car journalists would brand it as unsafe to reach any speed, enthusiasts would blast it, and it would be the laughing stock of other economy car manufacturers and their marketing departments that offer higher-powered engines.
      It would be used as an example of what's wrong with the industry, that they can't bring a frugal car to the market that still drives like a car.
      While, with a 120-140hp Diesel or 140-160hp gas engine, this car would be exactly the opposite: an example that small and frugal does not mean you have to give up anything to be part of the new world. And don't think that those engines would automatically translate into higher fuel consumption. For example, the 170hp TDI uses less fuel than the 140hp version. Also, Toyota's new upcoming hybrid has larger displacement (and thus more power) so that it safes more fuel.
      (By the way, I grew up with 30-50hp Beetles, Fiat 500s, and Renault 4s - so I know what it feels like to drive small underpowered cars )
      Aung San Suu Kyi

    18. Banned
      Join Date
      Feb 25th, 2005
      Posts
      148
      03-05-2009 05:37 AM #18
      In regards to affordability of a Polo Blue Motion: The problem is the protectionist politics of America. For a foreign car producer, it's very very hard to get cars legal for import onto the US market. Especially if you don't build factories within the US and invest hundreds of millions of Dollars into the US.
      Some might say that is good becuse it protects our local manufacturers from beeing blown away by foreigners and that it protects the jobs in the US. Well those argumentations can be taken into consideration but the fact is, it's 100% unfair.
      You can import any American car into Germany with literally no costs. Any Mustang, any Charger, any SUV any car any Motorcycle. All you pay are customs fees and the sales tax. For a new Mustang GT, importing costs are arround 2800 $ USD. If I was to import my 2002 B5 Audi RS4 into the US, ontop of having to pay customs and sales tax, I'd have to to pay 25000$, yes you read right, 25000$ USD to give my car to some shady private Registered Importer and for him to mess arround on my car for 3 Months untill I can finally drive it within the US.
      My conclusion: American Importation regulations are completey bogus, ridiculous, unfair, protectionist, over expensive and unjustyfied. With all that not beeing enough, shady, greedy Registered Importers would perform the importation of your car with noone limiting the amounts they charge to do it, noone observing them and their work to make sure they don't swap good parts in your car for bad and used parts that they have sitting arround. There have been meany cases where that happened, meany dissatisfied people wanting to import their European dream cars, meany of those people lost huge amounts of money and the Government doesn't do crap about it.
      The Government just finishes you of with the statement: "Well we are sorry but that's part of the risk of importing a car."
      The Fact is, if we want to import cars the Goverment forces us to import them through these shady, ripp off RI's ( Registered Importers ).
      So, as long as the government doesn't open up the market like Germany did and make it fair for German, European Manufacturers and other Countries to import their cars, you guys will never see all the available models within the US.
      How can that be changed ? I pretty much believe that only a huge flood of complaint letters and e-mails, from americans to the american Government could maybe give the government something to think about. Other than that you guys will just have to accept the fact.

    19. Banned
      Join Date
      Feb 25th, 2005
      Posts
      148
      03-05-2009 05:52 AM #19
      Somethings not really making sence here: You say americans would make fun of it and never buy it and so forth and talk about the american market...... A Chevy Cavalier, a GMC Jimmy, a Toyota Prius, a Nissan Altima and hundreds of other Models on the US market will not reach the 62 mile barrier in less than 10 -11 seconds, probably even 12 seconds. The Polos on the other hand all reach the 62 miles per hour in arround 10 -11 seconds and have a top speed of 120-135 miles per hour. That's more than enough for an average, every day driver, a commuter car.
      In regards to it beeing safe: The car is more than safe. It handles good, has ASR or ESP, Airbags, crash impact safety zones and much much more. It can easily compete with any of the compact cars on the US market, if not even beat them. Especially GM's cars.
      In regards to larger engines in the Polo:
      There will be a Polo GTI with a minimum 1.6 FSI engine and a Polo GTI TDI with atleast a 140 TDI engine so no need to worry about larger engines not showing up in the Polo.


      Modified by VWMaster1 at 2:55 AM 3-5-2009

    20. Member MKV.RABBIT's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 18th, 2007
      Location
      Hackettstown, NJ
      Posts
      3,323
      Vehicles
      2007 VW Rabbit 4-Door
      03-05-2009 06:51 AM #20
      Quote, originally posted by jamie@vwvortex »
      FULL STORY...

      71mpg! I'll take it! This car will rule the U.S. market with the highest mpg numbers.
      (VWOA: Please offer it with a manual transmission)

    21. Banned
      Join Date
      Feb 25th, 2005
      Posts
      148
      03-05-2009 08:33 AM #21



      Modified by VWMaster1 at 9:03 AM 3-5-2009

    22. Member Buran's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 21st, 2000
      Location
      Brentwood, MO
      Posts
      8,542
      Vehicles
      2007 Golf GTI (US)
      03-05-2009 01:39 PM #22
      Maybe instead of blasting anything with a small engine as "doesn't drive like a car", you need to realize that not everything needs to be ridiculously overpowered and "drives like a car" is not a synonym for "has 500 horsepower". Get those heads out of the sand.

    23. Banned
      Join Date
      Feb 25th, 2005
      Posts
      148
      03-05-2009 02:40 PM #23
      word.
      One thing is for sure, if the US had more cars like these and the people would use them as much as possible and would do carpooling more, for example neighbours or friends can go buy groceries together instead everyone going alone, then the US could put itself into a much better, much more independant position. Obama sais he wants to boost the energy independance progress. Well cars like these are part of it. Diesel cars are part of it. Diesel can be produced forever. Even if oil reserves vanish, Diesel still can be produced by plant material. Diesel can even be produced out of plant rests like wood chips, straw, hay and so forth. Matter of fact, that diesel even burns better, cleaner and more efficient than diesel made from mineral oil. VW made the first transparent combustion chamber for doing better research on combustion. It allows them to film the combustion process from all angles and see how fuels react. They found out and filmed how the synthetic diesel burns better than the diesel made from mineral oil.


      Modified by VWMaster1 at 11:42 AM 3-5-2009

    24. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 27th, 2005
      Location
      East Bay Area
      Posts
      22,889
      Vehicles
      2010 MkVI MT TDI Golf, 2000 B5 4M Passat Wagon
      03-05-2009 04:29 PM #24
      Hey rocket girl and master of VW's,
      You have to distinguish between what I would buy, and what you would buy, from what the American public is ready for, in sufficiently large numbers. The above was my assessment of the latter. You may disagree, but buying habits in the US indicate to me I am right.
      And as I mentioned: engine size and hp are not always positively related to fuel consumption. Keep that in mind. You are asking people to give up hp without much, if any, benefit. Europeans buy some of these small engines because they are cheaper, even though they often use more gas and have higher CO_2 emissions. BlueMotion models obviously excluded - but they have more going for them than a small engine, to save fuel.


      Modified by feels_road at 1:31 PM 3-5-2009
      Aung San Suu Kyi

    25. Banned
      Join Date
      Feb 25th, 2005
      Posts
      148
      03-05-2009 04:46 PM #25
      Not only the Blue Motion models save fuel. There's a 90 HP A2 TDI. The car does about 55-58 miles per Gallon and reaches 135 mph top speed. 0- 62 MPH in 10 seconds. That was a standard TDI engine in the standard A2.
      It's the same with all the other smaller engines. As long as a car does 0- 62 in 10-12 seconds it is sufficiantly powered. What a discussion anyways. Thousands of people bought the Prius car although the TDI's could beat the prius by far. Especially TDI Hybrids.
      All in all any small engine, atleast the ones from European manufacturers, perform well and save gas.
      So which ones are the cars with small engines, poor performances and higher fuel consumption? Can you name any examples? Which ones have you driven? Exact Models and engines please.
      With the aprox. 42 million cars on German roads and the Autobahns with no speed limits, the Germans still manage to average a total of 36 miles per gallon per car, that is with all SUV's; Porsche Cayennes, BMW X5, Mercedes ML'S, GL's, VW Touaregs, Porsche sport cars and so forth combined. They still average 36 miles per gallon. The US is below 20.
      That should give the US to think.


      Modified by VWMaster1 at 1:50 PM 3-5-2009

    26. Member Hydrokool's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 8th, 2000
      Location
      Seattle, WA
      Posts
      1,676
      Vehicles
      2007 Passat 4Motion 3.6 Wagon * 2005 4Runner Limited V8
      03-05-2009 05:44 PM #26
      Quote, originally posted by feels_road »
      Not really - the Polo is one to three classes smaller than the hybrids available in the US. Different market segment.
      Where are the BlueMotion Golf, Jetta sedan/wagen and Passat?

      Have you been in a Prius?
      -----
      Cars I've owned and loved:
      1987 Golf GT, 1997 Jetta GT, 1975 Rabbit, 1983 GTi, 1999 A6 Avant, 2007 Passat 4Motion Wagon, 1991 Toyota Pickup 4x4, 2005 4Runner, 1996 Land Cruiser

    27. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 27th, 2005
      Location
      East Bay Area
      Posts
      22,889
      Vehicles
      2010 MkVI MT TDI Golf, 2000 B5 4M Passat Wagon
      03-05-2009 06:36 PM #27
      Quote, originally posted by Hydrokool »
      Have you been in a Prius?

      Yes, I have. Also, the EPA rates the Prius as a mid-size car, not a compact, and not a sub-compact like the Polo. It is much bigger than a Rabbit, which in itself is one class up from the Polo. Most other hybrids sold in the US are mid-size cars or SUVs. So, yes, certainly, as I stated, hybrids in the US are one to three classes larger than the Polo.
      Aung San Suu Kyi

    28. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 27th, 2005
      Location
      East Bay Area
      Posts
      22,889
      Vehicles
      2010 MkVI MT TDI Golf, 2000 B5 4M Passat Wagon
      03-05-2009 06:49 PM #28
      Here is a power-to-weight comparison of 5-door hatches available in the US. Many of these don't sell very well, but some of them, like for example the Prius and the Fit, do sell in respectable numbers.
      Model______power_____weight____power/weight
      Suzk. SX4 143hp __ 2,701lbs __ 0.053
      Scion XD _ 128hp __ 2,668lbs __ 0.048
      Honda Fit 117hp __ 2,489lbs __ 0.047
      2010 Prius 134hp __ 2,900lbs __ 0.046*
      Yaris 5-d _ 106hp __ 2,340lbs __ 0.045
      Versa 5-d 122hp __ 2,693lbs __ 0.045
      Kia Rio 5 _ 110hp __ 2,438lbs __ 0.045
      Che. Aveo 107hp __ 2,546lbs __ 0.040
      2010 Polo 100hp __ 2,500lbs __ 0.040
      2010 Polo _75hp __ 2,500lbs __ 0.030
      As you can see, almost all currently available hatches have ~50% better power-to-weight ratio than a 75hp Polo would have. Even if you bump the power to 100hp, the Polo would reside at the absolute bottom of the pack. Is that a place to be for a semi-premium hatch from Germany, that (for all the know reasons) likely starts several $1,000 higher than the competition? I think not, and I think there would be no business case for it. Given that a 120-140hp model would not consume any more fuel (or at least not significantly), it is absolutely clear to me that if VW wants to sell such a car in the US with any success, it needs to be there - it would be a better car, and still plenty green.

      Polo: previous model weight was reduced by 7.5% as to VW press release. Previous 75hp TDI model weight in Germany was 1,157kg. Typically, US weights (calculated differently, plus some additional weight for bumpers etc.) is 200lbs more than German/Euro specs. Adding just 150lbs and rounding down, I get 2500lbs - which seems reasonable, given the competition's weight.
      *I have added the Prius, although it is one to two sizes larger, because it is the most popular hybrid, and still a 5-door hatch.
      All data are from Edmunds, all base models used.
      Aung San Suu Kyi

    29. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 27th, 2005
      Location
      East Bay Area
      Posts
      22,889
      Vehicles
      2010 MkVI MT TDI Golf, 2000 B5 4M Passat Wagon
      03-05-2009 07:31 PM #29
      Quote, originally posted by VWMaster1 »
      So which ones are the cars with small engines, poor performances and higher fuel consumption? Can you name any examples? Exact Models and engines please.


      Here you go:
      2010 MkVI Golf / Euro ratings, all manual transmissions
      engine _ CO_2 g/km
      ====== =========
      gasoline:
      _80hp __ 149
      102hp __ 166
      122hp __ 144
      160hp __ 145

      Diesel:
      110hp __ 128
      140hp __ 129
      140hp __ 167 Tiguan 4Motion
      170hp __ 172 Tiguan 4Motion
      I used the MkVI Golf, because unlike the Polo, all the data are currently available. The 170hp Tiguan used to be rated better than the 140 version. Now, they are rated approximately the same, still supporting my argument that a higher hp modern engine does not equate significantly higher fuel consumption.
      Three other examples: the new Audi A4 has about 60lbs-ft more torque than the outgoing one (and thus more power in the rpm range where people drive), is bigger, and yet gets better fuel consumption. Same with the 2010 Prius: larger engine, more power, better fuel consumption. Finally, the 269hp Rav4 is rated 27mpg highway, the 179hp version is rated 28 - almost the same, despite almost 100hp difference!
      Any assumed or perceived simple positive correlation between power and fuel consumption is a myth, based on poor engineering understanding. More displacement means higher low-end torque and better possible gearing for better fuel consumption.
      And yes, I know that many of the better gas engines require premium gas. However, that is a small price to pay for the environment, and one that is less and less important (fractionally) as gas prices move up.
      Aung San Suu Kyi

    30. Banned
      Join Date
      Feb 25th, 2005
      Posts
      148
      03-05-2009 08:18 PM #30
      1.) Who was talking about more HP consuming more gas my friend ???
      I am talking about the Polo still performing well even though it only has 75 HP.
      Those power to weight ratios pretty much mean nothing when the cars all still have the same 0 -62 MPH times, which I'm sure they do. So basically this whole discussion is useless and ruining this thread on the Polo Blue Motion. The car is the way cars should be and certainly more cars in the US should be. But what do I care. People will see what will go down in a few years from now. You all certainly wont like it but thats just too damn bad because noones making any changes or willing to take action.
      As for the remarks on poor engineering understanding... I'm wondering who you meant and who you're judging with that because one needs to be careful with statements like that. Readin power to weight ratios and C02 outputs of cars in brochures and magazines doesn't qualify one to talk like an engineer. Oh well.....GM's managment and Engineers liked to talk big and act big aswell....now look where they are at......



    31. Banned
      Join Date
      Feb 25th, 2005
      Posts
      148
      03-05-2009 08:37 PM #31
      Quote, originally posted by feels_road »
      And as I mentioned: engine size and hp are not always positively related to fuel consumption. Keep that in mind. You are asking people to give up hp without much, if any, benefit. Europeans buy some of these small engines because they are cheaper, even though they often use more gas and have higher CO_2 emissions. BlueMotion models obviously excluded - but they have more going for them than a small engine, to save fuel.

      Modified by feels_road at 1:31 PM 3-5-2009

      Engine size is definatly related to fuel consumption. If you take a 3.0 Liter FSI and a 2.0 FSI engine with the same technology but just different sizes, the 3.0 will definatly require more fuel. It requires more fuel to supply the larger combined volume of the combustion chambers with power.
      We don't need to discuss the benefits of fuel saving engines. The benefits are obvious but some folks just don't get it untill it's too late.
      How do you know what Europeans buy or don't buy and what they base their decisions on? These socalled small engines aren't cheaper.
      The 3 Liter Lupo which did 75 miles on a gallon was an expensive small sized car. The Polo Blue Motion won't be cheap. The Audi A2 wasn't cheap and TDI'S usually tend to be 1000-2000 $ more than gasoline ones.
      Any European manufacturer Peugeot, Citroen, Renault, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Opel, Audi, VW, Skoda, Seat and so forth don't sell small engines that produce more CO2 and use more gas than their larger ones. Thats a fact.

    32. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 27th, 2005
      Location
      East Bay Area
      Posts
      22,889
      Vehicles
      2010 MkVI MT TDI Golf, 2000 B5 4M Passat Wagon
      03-05-2009 09:00 PM #32
      Power-to-weight ratio is a good approximation for 0-60 times. Hybrids and Diesels sometimes do slightly better because of their low-end torque, but the ball-park figures are still comparable.
      2009 Polo, 0-100km/h (~0-62mph):
      85hp gas engine: 12.1s
      75hp Diesel engine: 14s
      2010 Prius: 9.8s
      Suzuki SX4: ~8-10s
      Scion XD: ~ 8-9s
      Honda Fit: ~9s
      I have provided my market and engineering assessment on where I think a frugal, perhaps BlueMotion Polo should be placed in the US, based on a number of arguments and tons of data. I believe it needs to target an audience as wide as possible, and as I explained in detail, IMO neither a 75hp engine nor a 100hp engine (that both appear to have no other benefit) would qualify. If you have your own analysis, you are free to do so.


      Modified by feels_road at 6:10 PM 3-5-2009
      Aung San Suu Kyi

    33. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 27th, 2005
      Location
      East Bay Area
      Posts
      22,889
      Vehicles
      2010 MkVI MT TDI Golf, 2000 B5 4M Passat Wagon
      03-05-2009 09:06 PM #33
      Quote, originally posted by VWMaster1 »
      Any European manufacturer Peugeot, Citroen, Renault, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Opel, Audi, VW, Skoda, Seat and so forth don't sell small engines that produce more CO2 and use more gas than their larger ones. Thats a fact.

      Since your arguments are all over the place and lack the clarity for me to respond, I will only repeat that I already proved your above statement wrong with the table I provided, which clearly shows that more powerful engines in the same car often produce significantly less CO_2, and at worse about the same, when at times having twice the hp rating.
      Aung San Suu Kyi

    34. Banned
      Join Date
      Feb 25th, 2005
      Posts
      148
      03-05-2009 09:30 PM #34
      Quote, originally posted by feels_road »
      Since your arguments are all over the place and lack the clarity for me to respond, I will only repeat that I already proved your above statement wrong with the table I provided, which clearly shows that more powerful engines in the same car often produce significantly less CO_2, and at worse about the same, when at times having twice the hp rating.

      Clarity, your arguments lack clarity . All over the place?? Maybe they are just too difficult to understand for somone who just focuses on ridiculous HP numbers rather than effciency. Can't beleive this whole bogus discussion. As mentioned before this is a ridiculous discussion. Just go ahead and buy a Pruis and be happy with it.
      You're data lacks depth buddy. If you take a regular aspirated and regular injected 1.6 liter engine with 105 HP and compare it to a 1.6 liter compressor or turbo aspirated FSI with 150 HP, of course the FSI will be able to produce less CO2 and use less gas. Thats what the FSI technology is about. You can't compare aples with oranges and talk about having humungous engineering assesment capabilities.
      Take the 1.6 FSI Turbo and increase it's Horsepower from 150 to 200 and it will produce more CO2. See where your useless chart lacks depth
      Wining arround about the Polo Blue Motion not having enough HP sounds like a pupertal boy who needs to go squeeze some pimples before talking down on more effcient cars which should have been on the face of our planet 20 years ago.

      [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthdown.gif[/IMG]

    35. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 27th, 2005
      Location
      East Bay Area
      Posts
      22,889
      Vehicles
      2010 MkVI MT TDI Golf, 2000 B5 4M Passat Wagon
      03-05-2009 09:37 PM #35
      Quote, originally posted by VWMaster1 »
      sounds like a pupertal [sic] boy who needs to go squeeze some pimples before talking down on more effcient [sic] cars [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthdown.gif[/IMG]

      Yes, when logic and data fail, there is always the escape into colorful language! [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      Aung San Suu Kyi

    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •