**Official 24V 3.6L Engine (oil pump bolt) failure thread**

[rosskopp]

driving on the autobahn and the engine power distribution light came on (drive-by-wire). called VW and asked if this is something i need to bring in ASAP. tech said no, it will go into an emergency mode and let you drive on. the car had no power after 2800 RPM, the trans was shifting really funny, and the engine was starting to get weak. started to drive home and the engine stopped. no power and could not turn it over. after reading in the forum, i think that i have the same problem that everyone else has. come to find out by the road side service tech, the cam chain had broke and the camshafts stopped turning. everyone knows what this means... the motor is a total loss and needs to be replaced. block and head are shot. valves are bent or chipped and the pistons have holes in them. i will post the outcome of the official findings and the VIN so we can find out what the heck is going on...

[rosskopp]

Quote, originally posted by RobMan8023 »

See: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3451148 PM me if you have had this failure and I'll put together a folder of all the work-orders related to this problem. Maybe bringing this evidence to our dealerships will convince them to do a preventive fix.

Rob,

just did a writeup on my issue as well. looks like im number 34. total engine failure.

Ross

[rosskopp]

E is the code that i have as well on my VIN. looks like its the same plant for all of these engines.

Ross

[cpurick]

No, there's a "P" in the second page of the thread.

[rh10023]

Production Date: May 2006
Failure reported by dealer: Oil Pump Bolt failure
Mileage: 26,000

[rosskopp]

i had posted earlier about my passat motor death. to what i have received from the tech here in germany, the motors have been manufactured in a different location and the problem has been fixed. the fault was started in the Emden plant in northern germany and was a design flaw. this flaw has been fixed in the new motors that go into the passat cheyene and the Q7. the reason that VW did not do a recall is because to do a recall for 20000 motors would not be cost effective so they waited until the motors broke down and then they replaced them. kind of a crazy thing but this is what i have been told.
VW replaced the motor without conflict and it took 4 days to get my car back. the car now runs and i am having to take it easy because of a wear in period. i will post pics and data on another thread concerning the pics of the failure and the data that i have received from the tech.

Ross

[rosskopp]

Rob,

wanted to give you an update. my engine had the same problem that was listed in this forum. the oil bolt snapped and took the cam chain with it. the dealership replaced the engine at no charge and the new engine has had this fault fixed. my car was in the shop for a total of 4 days from arrival to pickup.

Ross

[rh10023]

You sure you got a new engine or a reman engine. I am getting a reman engine. VW will not give me a new engine. Needless to say I am going to be looking for a new car pretty soon.

[RobMan8023]

Quote, originally posted by rosskopp »

Rob, wanted to give you an update. my engine had the same problem that was listed in this forum. the oil bolt snapped and took the cam chain with it. the dealership replaced the engine at no charge and the new engine has had this fault fixed. my car was in the shop for a total of 4 days from arrival to pickup. Ross

I added your name to the list. What was the approximate mileage on the vehicle when the failure occurred? FWIW: I think you ended up doing the right thing by inadvertently driving it into the ground and guaranteeing a completely new engine.

[rosskopp]

i made sure that the engine was new. i checked the serial number on the block and the head and they are different. i would not have accepted the car with a reman.

Ross

[rosskopp]

Got some pics of the damage... if you look at the cog that was for the oil pump the key busted off and then loosend the bolt which made the gear wobble and cause the oil pump to fail. the approximate milage was 22000. the problem was fixed (new design) with the new engine.

Ross Kopp

[petersohn]

This is a really serious problem related to the warranty problem.

Did anybody post your experience on the NTHSA webpage?

I think we need to make VW do the recall for this problem.

[rh10023]

You are lucky. I was not able to convince VW to give me a new engine. Their policy was a remanufactured engine.

[RobMan8023]

Quote, originally posted by petersohn »

This is a really serious problem related to the warranty problem. Did anybody post your experience on the NTHSA webpage? I think we need to make VW do the recall for this problem.

[danspong]

Production Date: ~(unsure)09/2006
Failure: oil pump/timing gear bolt failure
Mileage on motor ~ 17,500 Miles (rebuilt), and again at 39,100 Miles (new motor being installed)

[Daskoupe]

Damn.I havent seen this yet on any of my 3.6's.Vw has key way problems in the passed.(g60's and others)
any 3.6 made after December is going to have the update design

[upst8passat]

Well, Everyone - add another to the list..

'07 Passat 3.6 4Motion Wagon ( 01/06 Build Date) - 46,000 miles. "AFS Inoperative" Message yesterday - drove 1 mile since and called dealer.

If it's not too much of an inconvenience, what steps would the group recommend to help me make sure I don't get totally screwed here? Definitely bringing a copy of these posts in to the service advisor, and will make sure he knows I know what's going on here, and that I won't accept a band-aid to get me over the next 4K 'till I'm out of warranty, and then I'll have to replace the whole motor on my nut....

Thanks All!

Joe B.
Kingston, NY
'07 B6 Passat Wagon 3.6 4Motion

[RobMan8023]

Quote, originally posted by upst8passat »

Well, Everyone - add another to the list.. '07 Passat 3.6 4Motion Wagon ( 01/06 Build Date) - 46,000 miles. "AFS Inoperative" Message yesterday - drove 1 mile since and called dealer.

AFS Inoperative is referring to your Adaptive Bi-Xenon Headlights. Did your engine quit too? Please clarify, because right now your problem doesn't sound like a catastrophic engine failure. If it's just the AFS Inoperative message, it's nothing to worry about, just have it fixed.

[captstp]

New to the forums, add one more to the list.

Production Date: Not sure wife has the car, its a 2007 Passat3.6
Failure: timing gear bolt failure
Mileage on motor 18,988 Miles

We were driving in Northern California when the engine stoped and would not restart. Had it toed to the nearest VW dealer, they did a great job trying to get us going, but the passat had bigger problems than they could fix in a short time. They gave us a rental car at no charge while they tried to fix the car. Two and a half weeks later and a new engine block plus parts, engine fixed and passat back home. Error code when engine stoped was timming sensor fail.
Good Luck, Scott

[Shoman90]

I posted this on the larger forum, but still have the questions below.

Does anyone know how many 2006 3.6L were made?

How about 3.6L 4 Motions?

I'm wondering the % of failure. Obviously there are many that don't. Is there a way to determine whether a particular 3.6 is prone to failure? VIN and / or engine serial number?

We have a 3.6L 4 Motion -- 30K miles / no issues so far

Thanks

[s2scott]

My engine quit 10 days ago @ 47k. Dealer says it's due to oil pump bolt issue. Will post mfg date, VIN, etc when I can.

Any post repair issues/ problems I should keep an eye out for?

[Shoman90]

It seems that researching this issue is not possible……as there are no answers to date

Calls to the VW national customer line was like talking to a rock…..with the mantra being repeated again and again: “ You must contact your local dealer and ask the trained VW techs about this problem. We rely on them for information regarding such issues.” She also pled dumb time and again to my question of getting me a VW tech center to call…insinuating she was aware of no such place.

A couple days ago I decided to push a little further. I called my local dealer (80 miles away) and inquired their knowledge of the problem They had no clue of even what I was talking about. The service manager said he would try to dig into this for me, but this has proved futile in the past on other Passat ‘gremlin’ issues. Bottom line...they have done zero oil bolt repairs. I guess that's a good thing.

I then called a few larger VW shops in WI and Il. Between the three I called, there were 7 done over the last 2 years.

One said their experience shows 25K-35K miles is the trouble area. I asked about being proactive and fixing it on my nickel. They recommended not as in their opinion it is not to be expected of all vehicles. The job is a 8-10 hour repair per this service manager.

Another garage was a little more thorough…He took my VIN (My build date was 1/06). and related (right or wrong) that of the couple they’ve done……the build date affected was between 8/05-11//05. The mileage less than 15K. He agreed with the garage above that the proactive approach not be taken. We know from this thread that there is a smattering of various mileages affected.

There was a commonality between all 3 places I called: They felt that a MIL would come on and/or a ticking be heard before catastrophic failure occurred. (I know that does not appear to be the case for all in this thread) Also…when I suggested the cause of the failure might have been improper torquing and/or lack of Loctite………they agreed this was likely the culprit and not an actual bolt failure. The bolt backing out is what caused the problem according to all 3 places I called.

My main question…yet unanswered is: How many 3.6L engines were made and what is the % failure rate. If they made 25K engines and 100 failed, I would play those odds any day. VW appears to be playing those odds as well, fixing the problem on a unit by unit basis.

Am I correct in assuming the powertrain warranty of 5/60K miles covers this issue?

Everyone with a 3.6 reading this thread who has had no issue yet should be lambasting a few dealers with these same questions and reporting back here. Perhaps we can piece meal this thing together and identity some specific VIN lots. I am starting to think that a single engine manufacture employee (maybe more than one) was negligent in the assembly of the oil pump. Unless someone can provide a schematic of the affected oil pump bolt, I find it almost impossible to believe that a properly torqued/Loctited bolt holding part of an oil pump together would EVER fail. I could take that a step further and say that perhaps the hole this bolt mates up with in the block? was drilled a C hair too large and therefore the bolt can’t be cinched up correctly to prevent it from eventually backing out. This would explain a slightly larger bolt being installed as part of the fix.

[rh10023]

For my wife's '06 Passat, the local dealer in the Quad Cities, told me that this was the first failure that they had experienced of this nature. (The oil pump was dislodged from it's proper position and the engine suffered a catastrophic failure.) My wife's Passat V6 was one of the very few that have been sold in the area. I tried the same thing to get this fixed proactively, but the dealership said they have not had a problem of this nature. VW should do a recall on this, I can't understand why they don't.

[rjpatterson]

Vehicle: 2007 Passat Wagon 3.6L 4Motion
VIN: WVWVU73CX7E036316
Production Date: July 2006
Failure: lostpower, drove home, would not restart, towed into dealer on July 14, 2009, w/o states in part - "suspect oil pump bolt is broken and timing is out", "found all valves bent", "found evidence of metal coming through oil gallery to rod #4"
Odometer: 29140 miles
Repair: Dealer was asked to replaced engine with VW Remanufactured long block

This a USA version car presently registered in Canada. I've logged this defect on the Transport Canada web site (http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/safevehicles-defectinvestigations-index-76.htm). Suggest all defects with US registered cars be logged on the NHTSA Defects and Recalls web site (http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/).

[truman]

Would you run from a 3.6 wagon w/ 61k and a production number of 009106? Is VW doing anything for those that develop a problem out of warranty? Is a 2.0t a safer option? Thanks

[2001 Variant]

I've been searching around as well trying to find out when the issue was fixed.

The car you are looking at was one of the early production ones probably produced between 12/05 and 1/06 (wagons for some reason started out as 07 models for sale in early 06 with the earliest production dates I could find of 11/05) so I assume that this car is well within the range of affected vehicles. However, it seems that most failures occure way before 61k miles so chances are probably slim that you'd experience the issue. But keep in mind that the powertrain warranty only goes to 60k and there were a few cases of failures in the 50k's.

I read somewhere that the bolt was upgraded as of Jan 1, 2007 (this was in reference to the spare part, not necessarily new engine production) but not sure if that is correct and by what production date an engine with the fixed bolt would have made it to the car assembly line.

My car is an 07 with VIN 181xxx and production date of mid Feb 07 which looks like its one of the latest 07's around.

I still have plenty warranty left but I'd still like to know where the cutoff date or VIN is.

Does anyone know? Is there a TSB on this (couldn't find one)?

[Slimjimmn]

I remember in 06 when I had this issue on a car I was working on. An early production b6 3.6 sport 4-mo. VW told me to drive the car and beat on it for 20 min and see what happens. I ended up replacing all 6 injectors per techline, then r&r cam adjusters and the problem stopped no rough running. Then a month later the car came back noisey engine. Found the bolt backed up on to the chain cover and the gear was grinding the cover down. I was one ofthe first in the us to find that lol. Its so funny now to see its such a big problem, not just one engine on the assembly line. Looks like one of the robots on the assembly line had the wrong torque spec programmed into it lol.

[uncledrewp@comcast.net]

Hello. Long time reader, first time poster. My wife's 2007 Passat Wagon 3.6 4-motion just added us to this thread. Oil Pump bolt backed out and ruined the engine. Car had 76000 miles on it, so I am not able to get any assistance from VW at all. Any ideas?

[RobMan8023]

Quote, originally posted by uncledrewp@comcast.net »

Hello. Long time reader, first time poster. My wife's 2007 Passat Wagon 3.6 4-motion just added us to this thread. Oil Pump bolt backed out and ruined the engine. Car had 76000 miles on it, so I am not able to get any assistance from VW at all. Any ideas?

Press VWoA for a good-faith replacement since this is clearly a known engine defect. Chime in over at the other forum as well since it gets more traffic:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3462993

Talk to your dealer and have them go to bat for you. Print out the list of failed engines and bring it with you. Point out that you know this is an engine defect and that you expect it to be repaired at no cost to you. Stay assertive, and respectful.

If your dealdership won't go to bat for you with VWoA, call VWoA. Be persistent but respectful the whole time. Keep us on the loop as the situation develops, as we are all curious as to how VWoA will handle this issue outside of warranty.

If this turns out bad we know the rest of us have two options:
1) Buy aftermarket extended warranty
2) Dump the car before you reach the end of your powertrain warranty (5 years, 60,000miles)


Modified by RobMan8023 at 8:03 AM 2-5-2010

[uncledrewp@comcast.net]

I failed to mention that I do have a CNA aftermarket warranty. They are acknowledging this as a manufacturer defect that will be covered.

First they wanted to fix the car and not replace the engine. But, my dealer has done a good job to insist the engine needs to be replaced, after several conference calls and 2 visits by the adjuster with the engine in two different stages of teardown. Now the warranty company is offering to replace with a used engine, but not the $8500 engine form VW. They are hung up on the fact that VW only offers 12k, 12-month warranty on replacement engine. The used engine has same warranty, so that is the key point they keep going back to.

I will keep you all posted.

[nater]

Quote, originally posted by uncledrewp@comcast.net »

But, my dealer has done a good job to insist the engine needs to be replaced.

Haha

Funny how the dealer would want to "insist" on YOUR aftermarket warranty company 1) "HONOR" THE WARRANTY, and 2) replace the engine.

It's in their best interests to have somebody else pay them to do the work with their own parts. They get the best of both worlds if they can also supply a crate motor!!!

Nothing against the dealer at all...just stating that they should be on your side in dealing with your aftermarket warranty company - as it benefits them greatly!

Honestly, not that it is worth it (to you) at this point but in a perfect world you could still try and get VW to cover this under warranty as it's a known problem.

But the best thing (for you) is exactly what you did...

Make sure the replacement motor you get is built after the last known failure (I forget the date of mfr but '08s are not an issue) OR you'll be back at square one.

[Shoman90]

Is there any significance to the letter identifying where the engine was made?

Emden seems to pop up more?

[2001 Variant]

I don't think it matters as that's just the factory where the car is assembled. I'm not sure where they make the engines but I'm sure it's in a single location for all 3.6

[tdec]

I would guess that they told you "new" but it was actually "reman."
The same happened to me - broken off bolt - at 75k miles.
So I was out of warrenty and fought hard to get my cost down to 30% of total. And I was told by many persons that I needed and would get a new motor; but then found that they cannot even provide a truly new motor. Attached parts were new or mine that were not hurt.

[toogrumpy]

Production Date: 03/2006
Failure: oil pump/timing gear bolt failure
Mileage on motor ~ 41,000 Miles

3.6 4Motion fixed under warranty and runs fine. Took approx. 4 days in VW shop. Replaced various parts and not a rebuild. Dealership was very good to deal with

Modified by toogrumpy at 10:05 AM 4-13-2010


Modified by toogrumpy at 10:15 AM 4-13-2010