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    Thread: New Scirocco R Unveiled

    1. 06-01-2009 08:14 PM #176
      Quote, originally posted by gtimg »
      VWoA back in 2002 this forum pushed hard for the Euro 25th GTI and you gave us the 337, 1500 copies that had a internet presale and nearly half of the sold online the rest sold at sticker the second they hit the dealers books. The car went over so well that the next year you gave us the 20th which also sold well and has one of the best resale values of any VW. So why can't we go that route again, make it a very limited edition high priced decked out version of the car. Put it in all the US auto shows, and generate some excitement for the VW brand. Everyone will want to come see it, the die hards will buy it, and everyone else will be in your showrooms so you can show them how great and inexpensive most of the rest of your line up is. Generate some buzz, please your fans, sell some other models.

      Exactly....
      In fact, I was selling new VW's back then and bought one myself.

      If anyone from VW is reading this I just have to say I've never seen a company make all the wrong moves and still be able to do business and keep loyal customers.
      Remember what happened in 1991 when you almost had to pull out of the US market? Did you learn anything from that?
      First off, you went sue-happy a few years ago and threatened/took to court many of the VW Shops and sites that loyally carry your banner, bring people to the brand, and live, breathe and eat your product.....
      I personally know many of the people you harassed and it pissed off a lot of so badly they left the brand altogether.
      Other car companies would kill for your owner loyalty and even PAY big money for it, not go after them and sue them.
      Second, you pissed a lot of other people off with your faulty coil packs and faulty window regulators.... a good amount of these people were not die-hard enthusiasts and weren't very forgiving because of the way you handled it and you lost them forever to other brands.

      Third, you just don't have an exciting brand or lineup anymore.
      I've personally had three MK IV's:
      Leased an 01' Jetta GL
      Traded that on a leased GTI 337
      (in the shop 4 times in the first 10k miles for coil packs and you would only replace them one at a time when they went out, thus putting me in a POS Malibu rental)
      And then I had a Jazz Blue GTI 20th AE on order but bought Project X instead.....a car that you obviously could've/should've built and didn't, even after you teased us with the CJ coupe study.
      I've had over 30 air and watercooled VW's in the past 15 years in every body style but the MK III (my least favorite platform till the MK V came out)
      There are also two New Rabbits in my family currently. (would've been three if you had an affordable lease on a diesel)
      Since then I went to Volvo and most recently Leased an 09' Imprezza....
      I got the Subaru because I don't like anything in the VW line-up and even a base Rabbit S wouldn't come close to the terms I got through Subaru.
      To get the same deal I would've had to come up with AT LEAST $4k more on a three year lease....no joke.....you're so proud of your cars you miss the boat that badly.
      As a customer it just made my decision easy....
      As a salesman, I HATED it when I missed a lease deal to people who were cross-shopping other brands and paid thousands less at signing and hundreds less per month for a car that was inferior in every other way.
      Here's to hoping you get your head out of your ass and give us what we want.

      I'd like a Scirocco with a manual gear box.
      I'd consider a Lupo or Polo also as I considered a Mini before this latest lease.
      At least give us a diesel option in anything other than the homely Corolla-looking Jetta and even worse looking "Sport wagon" [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthdown.gif[/IMG]
      PS, if you really want to makes some waves, come out with a true to form modern day Karmann Ghia or Bus.....the Rutan is NOT WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT!!!!
      Have a great day.
      Love,
      your biggest fan and brand advocate

    2. Member PoVolks's Avatar
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      06-02-2009 01:54 PM #177
      wow, i think you got alot off of everyones' chest with that one.

      yes.
      bring the Scirocco with a clutch pedal
      a mid-engined roadster would be cool too...
      just because honda and toyota don't have any (new model) supercar status does not mean you can't either...

    3. Member TechEd's Avatar
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      06-02-2009 03:50 PM #178
      It's disappointing to see a few VW enthusisasts that, despite their careers in a service or product business, fail to sense product decisions that are risky, sure bets or downright stupid, ...with the ones that get people fired and turn entire corporations out into the street being extremes, but reality nonetheless. The manufacturing, import/export and reselling fundamentals, like: "It costs more to manufacture and import small quantities of many build variants as it does large quantities of fewer build variants", ...as well as understanding how exporting and reselling anything from the Eurozone to the USA is immediately associated with a loss unless the parent agrees to subsidies, should be no-brainers to many that post here. Unfortunately, it seems the moment many smart enthusiasts become consumers (or perceive themselves to be as such in online forums), all business savvy is thrown out the window along with the baby and the bathwater. If anyone needs to pull their collective heads out of their arse, it's those that don't have a clue of how difficult it is for a "pure importer" to bring in and resell anything from the Eurozone, not the least of which amounts to be a small volume niche model.
      All the collective moaning and groaning here won't change the fact that right now, there is no intelligent business case for exporting th Scirocco to the USA. Lately, this is worsened by the fact that the US Dollar has slipped back to a weakening trend against the Euro (tracking towards 1.5 and higher by the end of Q2) and a stalled US auto market overall. As VWAG and VWGoA have fared much better than most US domestics, transplants and other importers and in these tough times, it would be reckless and irresponsible of them to introduce add another Eurozone loss model to their US portfolio at this time. Think of the thousands of families that directly, or indirectly through various suppliers and private contractors, rely on VWGoA to be healthy.
      Under the current circumstances, VWAG has shown tolerance and patience with the situation here. It's obvious they know that more small volume niche product here would only deepen the hole that is unique to VWGoA a s a pure importer of EuroZone and Mexican product. This hole is unique to only VWGoA, without the benefit of manufacturing on US soil as with BMW or Mercedes. The perception that all auto brands that do business in the US use the same business models (sale = profit = everybody happy), is very wrong, and the declarations of "if you don't bring this car I'll buy something else" are effective only for schoolyard bullies.

      The new Scirocco will eventually come in some shape or form, but not before the business case improves significantly, or approach the threshold of solidity apparently deemed appropriate by the conservative parent company. This is no different than many of us that are smart enough to not live beyond our means ...only buy what we can afford. It will likely be the sales and profit of the new VW Chattanooga sedan that will tip the scales ...it's what's called being smart and resilient in the import/export business: Local market manufacture profit offsetting that makes small volume niche losses affordable.
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      06-03-2009 03:33 PM #179
      Well said TechEd. As someone who works for a German owned company, we face some of the same issues. Although my customers can get all the information they want on our European products, due to currency exchange rates, import fees, and transportation fees, the customer would need to pay almost double what the domestically produced products are. And I am only talking about base chemicals used in a large variety of products that you all purchase every day.
      So, although I also would love to have some new limited edition shinny toys in my driveway, I know that I will have to settle for what typically shows up on the dealers' lots.

    5. 06-03-2009 08:14 PM #180
      I see what you're saying about the US dollar vs. the Euro, but all your other arguments are futile.
      VWoA is in the hole because they've made many many wrong decisions over a long period of time.
      What happened to the glimmer of hope we had when Len Hunt came on here and said "Yes, we're listening to you and we value what you have to say, blah blah blah"
      It's just the same lip service they throw out all the time in politics....
      The enthusiasts are a hell of a better barometer and have more buying power than the masses VW tries to cater to, otherwise Rutans, Eos's, CC's and Tiguan's would be all over the road and there would be waiting lists for them like with the New Beetles, 337's and .:R32's....or even a Golf Diesel if they would offer the damn thing!
      I never ever see any of those mentioned above on the road...why is that?
      Being smart and resilient in the car/import export business is indeed important....
      But listening to your core demographic (18-35 year olds vs. 45-65) and taking a risk or two along the way is equally as important to your success, as well as looking at what other manufacturers' are doing that are getting it right.
      It's apparent that the MK V generation was completely dismissed by not only the core group they ignored but also did the masses, so instead of having a 6-7 year model run like in the past where they lead the pack with designs that were still fresh at the end of the cycle, they were forced to cut it to 4 years like the highly successful Japanese companies do...
      Hopefully that folly will turn out to be a silver lining, but not if they just design the Golf to look like a Civic and design the Jetta to look like a Corolla.

      Arrogance will only get you so far...
      Lease your cars cheaply to keep up with competition and make sure they don't cost as much to repair and maintain as Audi's, BMW's and Lexus'
      If the average person looks at JD Power and Consumer Reports they'd never consider a VW anyways.




      Modified by charlie_murphy! at 5:18 PM 6-3-2009

    6. Member TechEd's Avatar
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      06-04-2009 01:10 AM #181
      Funny, that manufacturing and reselling fundamentals and "other arguments" are futile. Can facts be futile? I suppose they can, especially when the view of the self-righteous consumer will always be jaundiced. Being mostly formed in a vacuum will do that, or at the very least be due to blindly joining a misery-loves-company forum bandwagon or harbouring some weird personal grudge. The oversimplifications, negativity, deeming oneself entitled or a victim, and perpetuating misinformation around here has got to stop. The consumer is supposed to be part of the solution, not the problem, as has proven to be the case over the last year.
      You really need to walk a mile in VWGoAs or any other manufacturers/importer's shoes to understand the strategy as it pertains to small volume builds with many build variants. For US domestic OEMs, the exchange rate does not play a role at all, but the fundamentals still apply. As with other German and American and Asian car factories, the VWAG factories are independent business units that are charged with being profitable themselves... and they'll gladly charge their OEM distributor or import market the necessary premiums for small runs of lots of local content requirements or other build variations. For VWoA, this was proven by the MKV R32 only being available with DSG. Ordering 2500 6-speed and 2500 DSG obviously exceeded VWAGs loss threshold. The Scirroco would fall right into the same risk profile, and VWAG very rightly wishes not to throw the dice at this time.
      Funny, that everyone else in the business now respects and admires them for intelligent product planning overall. Current evidence shows restraint and emphasis on core product as a means to a more viable future. Regardless if you are a US domestic OEM or German importer, throwing money out the window with low volume niche product when you can't afford it is bad, bad for any business right now. But, the enthu consumer, in a jealous rage, nonetheless demands a desirable niche model but can't do the math. Factual, fundamental math. Math related to processes that existed since manufacturing and reselling began, ...and BTW, we can never change the fact that cars will only be as reliable as the humans that design and build them. The last time I checked there's no such thing as the perfect human, but seeking blame appears paramount.
      BTW, how's that lemonade stand business of yours going?
      The biggest problem however, is the pipe dream quote of VWGoAs core demographic above. It's way off the mark, and those that assert otherwise lack any credibility, especially when the US car market is wounded as badly as it is now. Desire of the Scirocco or (heaven forbid) the Scirocco R and similar models represents less than 10% of VWGoA's total market volume. This small blip of activity projected against their total US volume, relative to VWAGs worldwide numbers, is but a grain of sand ...and yet it's the little grain of sand with it's crappy business case that apparently screams the loudest. The fact remains that, for the last 4 years it is VWoA's base models that sold best, and sold consistently: The base versions of the Golf, Rabbit, Passat and the top selling Jetta versions are what kept the dealers and the suits here and in Wolfsburg happy. The GTIs and New Beetle etc. numbers were always up and down like a toilet seat along with the "brand magnet" models like the R32. This no doubt had many a product planner fearing for his job. Taking a risk in the less than 10% twilight zone and having it tank because of its inherent volatility is no excuse for any company that can't afford any kind of additional losses. Someone gets still gets fired. ....how's that saying go about someone else's shoes?
      History will show that it's pandering to the volatile public whim and taking chances that contributed in part to the demise of GM and Chrysler. It's clear now that the average American consumer was just as inept at spending his own money, as he was spending someone else's. VWAG obviously witnessed this in back in 2004, shook their head and said "not for us". The customer is not always right, especially those in the less than 10% zone. But the answer remains simple for those that really love and understand the brand: Buy a Chatanooga sedan, and you'll eventually see a Scirocco.
      In one fell swoop, the car business has changed. Get used to it. Get used to manufacturers and importers alike being much smarter at protecting the livelihoods of the people that work for them, and supply product and services to them. In this, it can be argued that they have a right to be arrogant.
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    7. 06-04-2009 09:58 AM #182
      Maybe you're right....I don't really care....I'm not going to argue back and forth with you as I think I made my point(s)
      All I know is the only new VW that I'd consider are the ones that I mentioned....
      When I worked for VW for almost 10 years going back to the A3 generation we could never keep up with demand on the diesels....we'd have waiting lists with $500 deposits that would sit for years as a couple of cars would trickle in at a time....
      Some people would get tired of waiting and just get their deposit back and go to another brand.......this is a fact.
      If VW doesn't care about selling niche vehicles and would rather sell re-badged Chrysler minivans that's fine...no skin off my back.
      Go get on your soapbox somewhere else because I'm not listening.

    8. 06-04-2009 11:49 AM #183
      Quote, originally posted by charlie_murphy! »
      Go get on your soapbox somewhere else because I'm not listening.

      Thats pretty clear. TechEd has great insite into this industry and took the time to explain what the deal is. He has informative posts. Everypost of his I've learned from- and he's a good resource for those that do care and do want to listen. Have fun with with another brand- because you've already been calculated. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    9. Member PoVolks's Avatar
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      06-04-2009 03:08 PM #184
      Quote, originally posted by TechEd »
      In one fell swoop, the car business has changed. Get used to it. Get used to manufacturers and importers alike being much smarter at protecting the livelihoods of the people that work for them, and supply product and services to them.


      Touche dear sir!
      Deep down, I already knew of this you speak of already. The boys at "the big 3" American auto manufacturers showed the world just how quickly bad decisions can have negative repercussions on business. VW is smarter than that and it is this harsh reality that enthusiasts don't want to see. They just want others to see them in their brand-spanking new Scirocco R on the road here in the good ol' US of A.
      Ahh, the many faces of greed!

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      06-04-2009 04:10 PM #185
      Quote, originally posted by TechEd »
      In one fell swoop, the car business has changed. Get used to it. Get used to manufacturers and importers alike being much smarter at protecting the livelihoods of the people that work for them, and supply product and services to them. In this, it can be argued that they have a right to be arrogant.

      I think and hope that one of the biggest changes we will see is that most dealers will not have the large stock sitting on their lots but have it available from a central shipping point for a two day delivery. I know that the Honda dealer by me has about 1000 units sitting on his lot everyday.

    11. Member evilpat's Avatar
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      06-04-2009 07:01 PM #186
      Quote, originally posted by kjclow »
      I think and hope that one of the biggest changes we will see is that most dealers will not have the large stock sitting on their lots but have it available from a central shipping point for a two day delivery. I know that the Honda dealer by me has about 1000 units sitting on his lot everyday.

      that is a general trend we have all probably noticed in most areas. This can be a good (and bad) thing though as it slims down dealerships (stores, markets, etc) and reduces their overhead costs etc. America is starting to lose the fat

    12. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      06-05-2009 02:44 AM #187
      Quote, originally posted by kjclow »
      I think and hope that one of the biggest changes we will see is that most dealers will not have the large stock sitting on their lots but have it available from a central shipping point for a two day delivery. I know that the Honda dealer by me has about 1000 units sitting on his lot everyday.

      It's already happening: it's called cars sitting at shipyards, on ships out at sea, and any other available cheap storage space...
      Aung San Suu Kyi

    13. 06-05-2009 06:40 PM #188
      Saw one of the new Sciroccos here in Georgia a few weeks ago.
      I have to say I was disappointed.
      Things always look a lot different in person.

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      06-05-2009 07:10 PM #189
      Pietchrider practically had to beg VW to sell the original R32 here. The whole friggin VAG group has problems. Look at sales though. VW sells almost everything it brings. Economy of scale. Japan is subsidized and sells everthing cheaper. That is the real problem, added to the fact that VW has a great base of support that they crap on every year. Look at my ex-wifes '04 Passat Tdi. Only 6 were brought to Colorado. VOA and VAG didn't want to mess with certifiying a bunch of BEW/ BEZ engines. SO they just brought a few. Then Benz released the E-320d with 50 state certs. VW is always behind the curve. Except in Europe. They will play around all day there. But wait! The Japanese are making progress there too. So, guess they will hit a wall again like they did before. Lousy powertrain options, lousy body styles no AWD. This is especially true in Colorado where Audi and Subaru sell more cars than VW. So VW stares at the sales density maps and thinks? What? VW are you listening? Wake up! Look at what BMW does for maint and servicing. Look what all business that fail do. They lose the base and then the base leaves never to come back. Unless it's my good old MKiV Tdi!

    15. 06-08-2009 12:43 PM #190
      I DO WANT

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      06-08-2009 01:34 PM #191
      we're not getting it again.
      poor americans

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      06-09-2009 09:55 AM #192
      this car is yet another reason to move to europe
      anyone else not seeing any resemblance to the mkI/II sciroccos?

    18. 06-09-2009 06:23 PM #193
      Quote, originally posted by RedG6 »
      this car is yet another reason to move to europe
      anyone else not seeing any resemblance to the mkI/II sciroccos?


      How much resemblance do you desire after 20 something years?

    19. 06-09-2009 07:42 PM #194
      So, Porsche owns a controlling share of VAG?!
      Correct?
      Should we have more hope or less hope that such a wonderful piece of German engineering will ever make it over here because of Porsche's controlling share?
      Should we start a list of potential buyers and forward it to Porsche?



    20. 06-09-2009 08:17 PM #195
      Quote, originally posted by SPEEDBUILT »
      So, Porsche owns a controlling share of VAG?!
      Correct?
      Should we have more hope or less hope that such a wonderful piece of German engineering will ever make it over here because of Porsche's controlling share?
      Should we start a list of potential buyers and forward it to Porsche?



      Probably just means the fastest VW in the USA will be slower than the slowest Porsche.
      Which is very slow, BTW.

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      06-10-2009 12:38 AM #196
      Found this poor old guy cowering in the corner of the parking garage. I think he was badly frightened by the Scirocco R. Bad Bad Scirocco R! It's not nice to scare the elderly.

    22. Member sciroccokartei's Avatar
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      06-11-2009 06:58 AM #197
      Here are my personal Scirocco R-details from premier Nürburgring

      http://www.sciroccokartei.de/h....html

    23. Member jaegervw2's Avatar
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      06-11-2009 12:39 PM #198
      Anyone know if we can at least get those wheels over here?? I think they might be a good replacement for my R's Aristos that are getting bent on the crappy San Francisco roads. And if so would they be the same fitment???

    24. 06-11-2009 12:50 PM #199
      When I was in Germany last summer, Volkswagen was just unveiling the Scirocco (the regular not R version in white). They were everywhere in the big cities like Berlin and even parked in the train station itself.
      I remember walking up and talking to the sales man and he said no they are not going to bring the scirocco to america. So ill i got to bring back with me was German brochure on the car.
      One of the things I have to say is that pictures do no do the car justice. The car is goregeus in person! In fact, it is so pretty that the same weekend that I was in berlin, Ferarri was also there and had some advertising going on and were driving every model, available in a couple colors around, and letting people drive them. But the Scirocco still drew larger crowds then the Ferraris
      Not bad for a car that is 1/8th the price of a Ferrari

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      06-11-2009 01:11 PM #200
      man i guess it's time for another trip to Germany then My last trip was to test drive the R32 in 2003. I drove a silver R32 with DSG on the autobahn, we hit the limiter at 253kph and it was rock steady, this was on a 'test drive'
      time to go back and test the 'Rocco ;/R I guess....

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