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    Thread: TDI swap big turbo style

    1. Member tongboy's Avatar
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      91 GLI TDI Swap, 98 M3 Sedan LS1/T56 Swap
      06-11-2009 01:04 AM #1
      i've been rocking an alh swapped mk1 for a while (and a lot more time building it) but got tired of the intricacies of having a motor in a mk1 that was never designed or destined to be there and getting the heat/ac/etc working.

      So i've resolved to taking my motor, tossing a bigger turbo and fueling on it and stuffing it into a mk2. Much more of a drive it then a show it off kind of car


      what the rabbit looked like and all of it's one off parts


      the two cars in the garage ready for the first swap weekend


      what the mk2 looked like (anybody want a 16v?


      the alh sitting in the mk2 bay, still needing all the details around the motor handled (mk2s take motors SO MUCH EASIER then rabbits, holy damn, took longer to get the motor out of the rabbit then to it into the mk2 by a good 3 times!)


      gt2256 turbo with a 4-1 manifold off the back side, stepping the piping up to 2.5" for the intercooler piping, bigger injectors, the works.

      the biggest part of the project has been to keep to mostly stock parts - where available i'd rather pay for a brand new factory part or source a used one instead of doing what I did with the rabbit (had to really) of creating so many unique parts that are impossible to maintain or replace without a lot of heartache.

      more to follow, just haven't taken the pics off the camera - if I get down to it I MIGHT be able to take it on a spin for the leavenworth drive


      Modified by tongboy at 10:40 PM 6-10-2009


    2. Member gottalovedub's Avatar
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      06-11-2009 01:14 AM #2
      Looking forward to the final product.

      Swap that 16v into the rabbit.


    3. Senior Member skidplate's Avatar
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      06-11-2009 01:40 AM #3
      Nice!
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    4. Member Greg_J's Avatar
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      06-11-2009 01:42 AM #4
      thought about doing this to my GTI...a nice stage 3 turbo kit, large race injectors, upgraded internals, and matching software. you'll kill anything on the road, and get most likely 50-60mpg
      Quote Originally Posted by ennui_delphian View Post
      Don't anger canadiun lesbian...

    5. Member tongboy's Avatar
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      91 GLI TDI Swap, 98 M3 Sedan LS1/T56 Swap
      06-11-2009 08:01 PM #5
      Quote, originally posted by Greg_J »
      thought about doing this to my GTI...a nice stage 3 turbo kit, large race injectors, upgraded internals, and matching software. you'll kill anything on the road, and get most likely 50-60mpg

      thats what the rabbit did, it's amazing how fast 86 horsies feels like when you're making 180+ lb/ft in an 1800lb car.

      the jetta is just going to do it with a little bit more comfort, AC, power steering, the niceties of life...


    6. Member tongboy's Avatar
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      06-17-2009 01:59 AM #6
      got the stock timing belt parts in and replaced the hack job that I had for hte mk1 mount back to all the stock mk4 thicker tdi timing belt - got rid of the 16v style mounts and back to all of the appropriate covers.

      also got the clutch in and the front motor mount setup - still need to get a new motor mount though, wouldn't mind going with the mk3 tdi style but the mk2 style bolted right up to the tranny and lines up the motor mounts - right now (despite others saying it wont work) i'm running a stock mk2 subframe front and back with the front motor mount off the mk2 o2o tranny with the mk3 long starter bolts bolted in - i'm not sure the o2j starter will work with the o2a but the motor sits straight on all mk2 mounts (Minus the mount that is actually bolted to the tranny for hte o2a rear tranny mount)

      have also hacked up the b4 passat radiator & support so that it fits in the mk2 - the radiator is gargantuan and WAY more then needed but it will bolt up to the cooling hose setup I have with the inlet/outlet on the drivers side better then trying to locate hoses that move it across the engine bay.

      the rest of my time has been spent getting the custom feed/return lines made and the intercooler mounted & piping being made. thats still in progress - haven't had much time this week to work on it - no leavenworth for the beast.

      I also recieved my injectors back, fresh & newly calibrated from DBW, they look pretty nothing like fresh race 520's with an 11mm pump to make a mk2 a little faster...

      bracket on the corrado pedal cluster for hte DBW pedal mounting

      hydro clutch installed with the 'raddo parts and the new brake booster, so factory!

      intercooler mounted on the front bumper tilted backwards a bit to fit into the big bumper mounting space without needing as much clearancing

      pipe test shaping/fitting


    7. Member strangerhacks's Avatar
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      06-25-2009 10:58 AM #7
      ill be doing this same swap one day to my gli
      great write up

    8. Member geneworld's Avatar
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      06-25-2009 11:12 AM #8
      Yeah I'd love to do a tdi swap in my jetta...All I can do now is slowly save haha...Yery slowly

      Good build man!

      '86 GLI

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    9. 06-25-2009 11:21 AM #9
      lol i like the integra rims on the mk1
      good luck with the build

    10. Member tongboy's Avatar
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      91 GLI TDI Swap, 98 M3 Sedan LS1/T56 Swap
      07-08-2009 02:56 AM #10
      finally got all the big parts in and working, finding a shifter box that wasn't jacked up required a cable from VW, had to sort through my pile of parts to find radiator parts that work and had to do a lot of low grade welding for the intercooler piping but its all in and it at least runs!


      turbo mounted and clocked correctly (still to get the wastegate actuator mounted... doesn't clear the firewall in the stock spot, damn big turbo...


      you can see I still haven't hooked up the fuel tank so i'm cheating a bit... the wires are all messy but thankfully the CE2 conversion I did in the rabbit meant that my wiring from that plugged right into the fuse box and I didn't have any drama for once with wiring.


      ignore the ugly welds - they don't leak too much... still to mount the fuel filter in that area and the MAP sensor in the piping but there is ample room along that side.

      it idles right now but isn't liking any pedal, I need to get all the sensors hooked up before I figure out the problem so I can take it for a spin around the block and then drop it off at the exhaust shop to have them put a downpipe on it

      I registered for the dyno at waterwerks so I better hurry up


    11. Member MikkiJayne's Avatar
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      07-08-2009 04:58 AM #11
      Nice work
      Throw an Audi engineer down a hole with a ladder and he will fashion a shovel from it and tunnel his way out

      Quote Originally Posted by shwak23 View Post
      You could always call your insurance and say that some vandals tried to swap your car to rwd while you weren't looking.

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      08-20-2009 12:21 PM #12
      Good to see you back in the thick of it! Can't wait for the video! Is this in lieu of the syncro wagon? ("queek" over at TDIclub)
      1995 GLX TDI SYNCRO Build thread: [URL="http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=226323"]. sold
      1978 MK1 Diesel 2door sunroof 121k miles

    13. Member TheReverend's Avatar
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      08-20-2009 04:52 PM #13
      are those "stunna" wheels i see on the jetta? thats a nice looking tdi block very clean , not the norm
      no one gives a **** how many post's you have.

    14. Member tongboy's Avatar
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      04-26-2010 04:49 PM #14
      I'm going to bump this back up becuase i've been working on the car again.

      I took it to the crosshaul cruise over the weekend and out to hood river and back this weekend - the first 500 miles without any real issues.

      how the engine bay sits right now

      how the car sits right now

      did coilovers and new wheels. got the fuel lines plumbed into the tank properly instead of hte back seat and started cleaning up the wiring.

      picked up a mk3 tdi wiring harness to hopefully clean up the engine bay.

      I got a 'raddo speedo cable but it needed a little adapter cable from a mk2. and of course the custom made vnt actuator got loose so I'm currently driving the car around with pedal controlled boost.

      New clutch is in the mail - it's FAST at 22psi and i'm sure the stock clutch wont last long when I go looking for 28psi

      My two big goals now are the wiring cleanup and getting back to the mk2 stock radiator so that I can easily fit a condenser in the front (ideally the stock one for less drama) so that I can get the AC all setup and plumbed (as i'll need custom lines.


    15. Member G60ING's Avatar
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      05-03-2010 07:51 AM #15
      Looks good. Did you say you were going to convert to Mk3 wiring?

    16. Member tongboy's Avatar
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      05-03-2010 12:39 PM #16
      Quote, originally posted by G60ING »
      Looks good. Did you say you were going to convert to Mk3 wiring?

      thanks g60, you're a good role model

      I am going mk3 engine bay wiring - i'm going to see how much of it is compatible with my early mk4 ecu wiring and stuff. big parts i'm looking to leverage are the glow plug harness and the cooling harness so I can keep it ce2 instead of reinventing more mk2-> mk4 connections to plumb AC wiring.

      This weekend I went junkyarding in search of the proper motor mounts - found the front crossmember and o2a 4cyl motor mount - mk3 AC condensor and a passat 2l radiator and mk3 fans - aka functionally a mk3 vr6 front radiator assembly (the passat 2l & mk3 vr have the same size radiator)

      I had been rocking the passat vr radiator which is GIANT and moving to the smaller radiator left me a lot of room for the condensor & smaller mk3 rad fans. The condensor was the last of the big pieces I needed for AC - now it's all about lines & cooling system wiring for that.

      I also etch primed most of the boost piping to fight exterior rust - found a few boost leaks too.

      Have a mk3 kframe, new bushings to tighten up the A-arms & tie rods are coming in today.

      new clutch gets here today too.


    17. 05-03-2010 12:52 PM #17
      nice!

    18. Member Flipdriver80's Avatar
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      05-03-2010 12:57 PM #18
      so can we see a dyno for this thing? if not this car another one comparable to it? i want to see what a big turbo diesel vw can put to the wheels.
      Quote Originally Posted by dirtbaggg View Post
      is there anyway to get a new uni body?

      like can yu take the uni body off

    19. Member tongboy's Avatar
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      91 GLI TDI Swap, 98 M3 Sedan LS1/T56 Swap
      05-03-2010 01:38 PM #19
      Quote, originally posted by Flipdriver80 »
      so can we see a dyno for this thing? if not this car another one comparable to it? i want to see what a big turbo diesel vw can put to the wheels.

      i'm signed up to dyno at waterwerks in July.

      I have a dyno from the stock turbo/nozzles/pump w/weird tune and it was 88horsies/180 torque to the wheels.


      is a similar setup with a smaller turbo - an 1852.

      I'm currently running an 11mm pump (the bigger automatic pump) and I'll be limited by the nozzles I have in right now - powerplus 520's - had to pull the race 520's when they got gooe'd up from a bad pump in need of a rebuild.

      My goal is 250 hp to the wheels with a max of 400ft/lbs otherwise i'll start grenading trannies/axles.


      Modified by tongboy at 10:40 AM 5-3-2010


    20. Member G60ING's Avatar
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      05-03-2010 01:56 PM #20
      Quote, originally posted by tongboy »

      thanks g60, you're a good role model

      I am going mk3 engine bay wiring - i'm going to see how much of it is compatible with my early mk4 ecu wiring and stuff. big parts i'm looking to leverage are the glow plug harness and the cooling harness so I can keep it ce2 instead of reinventing more mk2-> mk4 connections to plumb AC wiring.

      This weekend I went junkyarding in search of the proper motor mounts - found the front crossmember and o2a 4cyl motor mount - mk3 AC condensor and a passat 2l radiator and mk3 fans - aka functionally a mk3 vr6 front radiator assembly (the passat 2l & mk3 vr have the same size radiator)

      I had been rocking the passat vr radiator which is GIANT and moving to the smaller radiator left me a lot of room for the condensor & smaller mk3 rad fans. The condensor was the last of the big pieces I needed for AC - now it's all about lines & cooling system wiring for that.

      I also etch primed most of the boost piping to fight exterior rust - found a few boost leaks too.

      Have a mk3 kframe, new bushings to tighten up the A-arms & tie rods are coming in today.

      new clutch gets here today too.

      I love the thrill of a good junk yard hunt looking for the elusive items to make a swap "right'

      From what i have researched the mk3 TDI wiring will work with the Mk4 engine very well. Some of things that will need to occur:

      Modify wiring for the injector pump
      Have MK3 ECU programmed by Jeff for the VNT Turbo
      have the ECU Modified for the Mk4 MAF

      You will then have to run an additional wire or two for the MAF.

      The guy with the Mid-egine TDI Corrado did this. Talk with him. I think this is what a lot of us will be doing at some point as the mk4 motors are much more common and yield more potential once you get past the wiring.

      Why not run a Mk2 or even a mk1 radiator? After having done a number of other engine swaps since my TDI corrado I don't think I'd use a DS inlet and outlet radiator if I have it to do all over again. In fact if my radiator needed replacing tomorrow I'd use a mk2 or even a mk1 in a heartbeat.

      For the A/c system wiring why not use the mk2's? granted the dual relay thing is old an antiquated but its simple and works well when all of the wiring is in good shape. Besides the relays are cheap in comparison to the mk3 module.

      The A/c mechanicals are a little tricky so i'll let you use your best judgement but I think I've said I'm a fan of converting the evaporator to a mk3 and then using a hybrid of SLC and Mk3 lines.


      Keep the updates coming as your pictures are some of the few I can actually see during the day. Thanks


    21. Member tongboy's Avatar
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      05-03-2010 02:16 PM #21
      Quote, originally posted by G60ING »
      I love the thrill of a good junk yard hunt looking for the elusive items to make a swap "right'

      From what i have researched the mk3 TDI wiring will work with the Mk4 engine very well. Some of things that will need to occur:

      Modify wiring for the injector pump
      Have MK3 ECU programmed by Jeff for the VNT Turbo
      have the ECU Modified for the Mk4 MAF

      You will then have to run an additional wire or two for the MAF.

      The guy with the Mid-egine TDI Corrado did this. Talk with him. I think this is what a lot of us will be doing at some point as the mk4 motors are much more common and yield more potential once you get past the wiring.

      Why not run a Mk2 or even a mk1 radiator? After having done a number of other engine swaps since my TDI corrado I don't think I'd use a DS inlet and outlet radiator if I have it to do all over again. In fact if my radiator needed replacing tomorrow I'd use a mk2 or even a mk1 in a heartbeat.

      For the A/c system wiring why not use the mk2's? granted the dual relay thing is old an antiquated but its simple and works well when all of the wiring is in good shape. Besides the relays are cheap in comparison to the mk3 module.

      The A/c mechanicals are a little tricky so i'll let you use your best judgement but I think I've said I'm a fan of converting the evaporator to a mk3 and then using a hybrid of SLC and Mk3 lines.


      Keep the updates coming as your pictures are some of the few I can actually see during the day. Thanks

      good junkyard runs are the BEST.

      I want to keep the mk4 ECU - it's just easier to work with with the power goals I have in mind than going to the mk3 one that has to be hacked to work with a fairly mild power increase/stock setup. Looking at the plugs I'm pretty sure the wiring harness at least the big plug on the ECU is the same size - I haven't run any of the wires down to see if they are the same but the early mk4 harness I have is very different plug wire than the later ones - i'm thinking it's closer/based on the mk3 stuff.

      I searched and searched on how to run a mk2 rad so I could run the stock condenser and thus a good portion of the stock AC lines with no drama but the ALH's and their internal water pump blocks are a PITA to get the right hose setups for - I went with the easier mk3 setup (besides, it's newer and easier to find parts for...) with the vr setup so it has drivers side plugs.

      I didn't want to go mk2 just because of the wiring issue - it's very functional and the relays are cheap new but it's impossible (and I've looked) to find a good condition setup of wiring. where as it isn't too difficult to find a mk3 fan relay in the junkyard for a few bucks it's nearly impossible to find mk2's with good wires and the time/cost involved in rewiring isn't worth it to me when I can use a "simpler" to plug in mk3 setup.

      You had some good advice on the AC lines - I have to work around some clearance on the back side of the motor in regards to turbo placement but I suspect most of the mk3 lines will line up pretty well - and junkyard 99's are prolific around me so getting some very good condition ones isn't hard to do. with the ALH and the AC compressor down lower than the mk3 puts it I'm not sure how those lines will match (along with all the hoses already running along the front of the motor...

      The condensor -> drier -> interior is a pretty straightforward run and can be mk3 without drama - the interior -> compressor -> condensor run is going to be more complicated but the mk3 plug looks to be the same plug as the mk4 compressor so maybe only pipe lengthening is needed?

      I need to get caught up on pics - i've been too busy wrenching instead of pausing to take pics, i'll fix that


    22. Member
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      05-03-2010 02:25 PM #22
      Looking good, me likey TDI swappy

    23. Member G60ING's Avatar
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      05-03-2010 02:27 PM #23
      The thought of converting a mk3 wiring harness to run a mk4 99.5 ECU had never occured to me. I like it. You might have to add a wire or two for the Map sensor but Otherwise it sounds like a slamdunk.

      What are you doing for the Instrument cluster, mainly the tach but now that there is a tach thread on the TDIclub you might be beyond that issue already.


    24. Member tongboy's Avatar
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      05-03-2010 02:36 PM #24
      Quote, originally posted by G60ING »
      The thought of converting a mk3 wiring harness to run a mk4 99.5 ECU had never occured to me. I like it. You might have to add a wire or two for the Map sensor but Otherwise it sounds like a slamdunk.

      What are you doing for the Instrument cluster, mainly the tach but now that there is a tach thread on the TDIclub you might be beyond that issue already.

      I'm hoping its the holy grail of CE2 ALH swaps for wiring simplicity but we'll see - i'll buy up all of them first before I tell the world it is

      I'm running the stock mk2 cluster - with MFA so I can plumb the speed back to the ECU via the cluster ESS. I'm not sure what is up with my tach - in the mk1 I ran a mk3 cluster and it worked great with the ebay tach converter I have. I've run the wires down and I have continuity all the way from my converter to the back of the cluster - I think my cluster might be dead but I don't remember if it worked with the 16v or not, gah. I need to just junkyard another ce2 cluster and see if the tach works on it to answer my question...


    25. Member Flipdriver80's Avatar
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      05-03-2010 06:43 PM #25
      wow those are some awesome numbers.
      Quote Originally Posted by dirtbaggg View Post
      is there anyway to get a new uni body?

      like can yu take the uni body off

    26. Member tongboy's Avatar
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      05-12-2010 05:40 PM #26
      Had to tear my m5 down to do chain guides unfortunately so all the fun parts are just collecting dust in the garage while I wait to get that back together.

      not so fun

      Let's talk mk3 AC for a bit:

      I was playing around with parts in a junkyard - I pulled a mk3 evap out of a 99 and it fits perfectly in place on the mk2 AC box. I pulled all of the mk3 engine bay lines and drier and besides the tdi compressor sitting about 6 inches lower in the engine bay everything else seems like it will line up (besides potentially right at the connection going into the interior because I have an intake pipe there...)

      My current intent is to install the mk3 lines, drier & evap and I believe it will be plug and play to the compressor assuming there is enough extra room on the lines to sit at the lower connection point of the compressor. Anything terribly obvious i'm missing here?

    27. Member tongboy's Avatar
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      05-15-2010 12:42 AM #27
      Got all the parts setup for a fun little day tomorrow

      I've been pushing the turbo hard enough that it actually loosened the 4 bolts on the flange enough (and i've re tightened them only to have them get loose again) to the point that i'm not making any boost because the exhaust is just blowing out of the flange.

      I also need to put in the mk3 K-frame and the r32/tt bushings, new tie rod ends, ball joints, etc As well as the shiny stage 3+ clutch and single mass flywheel i've had chilling for a bit.

      so tomorrow rather than trying to do all the fairly big pieces individually i'll pull the motor and tranny and accomplish all three tasks at once.


      &

      will be going in

      I also picked up a new toy - a collapsible blue bird engine lift - I'm tired of renting them and use it just barely enough to be able to justify it - the ability to break it down into relatively small pieces made it worth more to me than the harbor freight ones.

      Gordon always helps out too

    28. Member tongboy's Avatar
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      05-16-2010 12:27 AM #28
      pulled everything off of the motor


      1hr 30 minutes and the motor was sitting nicely out of the bay


      another 30 minutes and the k-frame is out


      mk3 kframe assembled with the new r32 rear bushings - the old ones were DEAD. New tie rods and all that jazz - I forgot what a PITA it is to use a vice to press the bushings but its all done.



      after that it was on to fixing up the turbo - high temp lock tight'ed all 4 bolts so they stop getting loose and got the vnt actuator back to the proper spot as it had become loose and red lock tighted all of that. The arm had to be lengthened and a new bracket made to accomodate the direction the turbo is clocked...





      Pulled the stock DMF and clutch and installed the single mass g60 flywheel and a stage 3+ south bend clutch setup, new clutch fork and throwout bearing.



      I got the K-frame and a-arms back in without much drama and put the motor back again without much drama - then I realized I left the steering u-joint unconnected - that was a PITA and took a fair amount more time than I expected.

      got the majority of the major motor stuff reconnected. I'll finish it up tomorrow and see how how much less idle vibration the mk3 mounts give off and how the new clutch feels.

    29. Member 88Jetta350's Avatar
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      05-16-2010 06:57 AM #29
      That things gonna be a blast to drive when it's finished. GL!
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    30. Member tongboy's Avatar
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      91 GLI TDI Swap, 98 M3 Sedan LS1/T56 Swap
      05-16-2010 11:55 PM #30
      got it back together - fired on the first time and needed nothing

      things worth noting - it idles SO MUCH BETTER with the proper mk3 mounts - OMG so much smoother, like a normal car.

      for whatever reason it cranks WAY faster than it ever has, don't know if it has anything to do with the single mass flywheel or whatever but it cranks and fires real fast everytime now instead of the multiple second cranking that used to occur.

      the turbo VNT actuation is working very well - if anything it's making too much boost right now, it's holding ~26-28psi to redline in 3rd gear, I'm terrified of the car because it breaks traction in the top of 3rd when it goes over 20psi

      I'm going to start doing logged runs to figure out how my fueling is and keep dialing it up

      need to bleed the clutch hydraulic system, its a bit spongy with the new clutch and this week the carputer goes in.

    31. Senior Member Capt.Dreadz's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 3rd, 2003
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      Long Island, NY
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      VRT's & 2.7T's
      05-17-2010 12:12 AM #31
      I'm patiently waiting for a nice shell for me to drop my ALH swap into. The thing only has 77k on it...*sigh* story of my life. Plenty of engines ready for swappage and no body to swap it in. I'll be watching this for motivational purposes
      Chosen Life Clothing. Streetwear for the car culture. Launch Party coming very soon!!
      Meet Long Island The place if you're looking for a euro GTG in the Long Isl./New York City area.
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    32. 05-17-2010 04:25 AM #32
      awesome build, this makes me want to find a tdi to put in my 86 project that is just starting

    33. Member Alpine Mk2's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 10th, 2010
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      Nashville
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      1989 Jetta GL
      05-17-2010 04:32 AM #33
      wow this car is beast!

    34. Semi-n00b ledeni09's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 6th, 2010
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      Croatia,Vukovar
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      vw mk2 1.6 td,mercedes190e 2,5- ford escort 1.8td
      05-17-2010 07:49 AM #34
      This car is awsome nice job!

    35. Member tongboy's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 12th, 2001
      Location
      Portland, OR
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      91 GLI TDI Swap, 98 M3 Sedan LS1/T56 Swap
      05-17-2010 01:20 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by Capt.Dreadz View Post
      I'm patiently waiting for a nice shell for me to drop my ALH swap into. The thing only has 77k on it...*sigh* story of my life. Plenty of engines ready for swappage and no body to swap it in. I'll be watching this for motivational purposes
      that thing isn't even broken in yet!

      mine came out of a car with ~225k on it.

      -------

      thanks guys, it's getting more and more fun to drive it, alignment tomorrow so it isn't so squirrelly with the new steering/suspension bits.

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