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    Thread: Billy Boat Downpipe install w pix

    1. Member
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      06-19-2009 08:53 PM #1
      Billy Boat Downpipe install.

      Quick notes:

      PROS: excellent quality, good welds, clean transitions.
      CONS: didnt bolt up to stock catback without modification.

      Can bring it back stock at any time, as i didnt alter any stock components.

      Box was excellent and really high end:

      Here you can compare the 42dd downpipe to the BB downpipe side by side. Notice how the BB looks too long... more on that later. Note the better positioning of the holes on the BB so you can retain your two stock O2 sensor clips:

      Especially note the transitions at the flange. The 42dd has a pipe seam visible, the BB is the smoothest I have ever seen. Looks like its all one piece:

      Close up of the BB head:

      Close up of 42dd head:

      Showing clearances, no problems here. I had to bend a piece of sheilding which bent easily, as this pipe is a more direct path than most.

      To the rear piece. The adapter they sent:

      The pipe was way too long, so I made the decision to cut it:

      Just about 2.5" to cut. CORRECTION: 2" is the perfect cut.

      Then you can see how it all works. The adapter goes over the BB end, and also over the stock catback end. The stock cat back was not touched or altered. It is REALLY hard to get it all together, as you have to push your catback back at least 1.5" so it can slip into that fitting.

      This pic just shows that I am able to use both my stock O2 sensor wire clips now:

      Installed, straight down the middle:

      Finally, my 42dd downpipe which I think I have decided to sell locally.

      IMPRESSIONS:

      Not much louder, maybe very slight. Tone seems cleaner but it could be my imagination. Enjoy the feel of it, not really a difference in power and there shouldnt be. I think this BB sounds a tad cleaner on the stock catback if that is possible.

      Last edited by placenta; 07-13-2012 at 01:47 PM.
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      06-19-2009 09:21 PM #2
      dont worry about that slot you see open in my adapters. i moved the main pipe back a tiny bit off the head, and then i also held my cat back "in" and extra 1/2" as i tightened the clamp.
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    3. Member ryan mills's Avatar
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      06-19-2009 11:08 PM #3
      Well, crap. I just installed a 42dd onto my car. It's at least ceramic coated and is straight 3" to my APR RSC stuff, but, that billy boat looks pretty nice. I wish I knew about that! how much, and where did you get it?

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      06-19-2009 11:16 PM #4
      Quote, originally posted by ryan mills »
      Well, crap. I just installed a 42dd onto my car. It's at least ceramic coated and is straight 3" to my APR RSC stuff, but, that billy boat looks pretty nice. I wish I knew about that! how much, and where did you get it?

      $543 shipped, and they upgraded me to 2nd day air cuz it got delayed. Bought it direct. Its the same downpipe APR used to make, with a different label on it.

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    5. Member ryan mills's Avatar
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      06-20-2009 07:33 AM #5
      I wish I didn't see this email..... It looks very nice, but I must say my ceramic coated DP looks pretty too. I really like the one piece design though. Keep up the good work!

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      06-20-2009 10:13 AM #6
      Quote, originally posted by ryan mills »
      I wish I didn't see this email..... It looks very nice, but I must say my ceramic coated DP looks pretty too. I really like the one piece design though. Keep up the good work!

      ya i changed pipes for the stainless, and the one piece design. And the fact that i have zero use for modular and would never change it.

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      06-20-2009 10:46 AM #7
      if i ever did decide to do a catback (which i dont plan to), i could just substitute that adapter for a straight 3" sleeve to connect them together.
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      06-20-2009 11:24 AM #8
      nice apr downpipe

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      06-20-2009 12:53 PM #9
      wow awesome after vacation ill prob buy this haha
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      06-20-2009 07:57 PM #10
      Obviously.. the quality of this piece is excellent, and I was happy with the build quality no doubt.. yet i am wavering on my final build decisions..

      The noise is just too much for me. some people might just call that noise nice tone.. not just on this downpipe specifically, but on either one I had. it attracts attention everywhere, especially on freeway when i floor it..

      Kind of funny.. I think I had come to the same decision when I put a downpipe on my 2006 GTI and then removed it shortly afterwards.

      I also miss the low end punch which is lost when you add a downpipe to the car. I have confirmed this on 4 of my different turbo cars and know this is not in my head.

      In addition, I am a perfectionist, and can never rest until an install is perfect. I know I am more obsessed with perfection than most of you.. These clamps do not fit properly as you can see in the pics. All that tightening them does is distort the pipes. The flange types in the 42dd downpipe were actually a much better seal, and leak free.

      Here is the rear section with the clamps moved. I wanted to check that slot hole to confirm it was sealed properly. It is. (Yet I still have a bad leak which you will see in pic #3.)

      Pic #1: adapter close up: uses a 3" clamp and 57.2mm clamp. Incidentally, the AWE clamp is 63.2mm or something, as I had one in my box I just checked.

      In my eyes, these clamps do not fit.

      The clamp on the rear of the downpipe, 3" size: (not too bad)

      The worst fitting clamp. Adapter to stock cat back. This one isnt even close to fitting properly. You can see the adapter bent flat. Those buckled areas leak a lot of puff, as heard with a hose test to my ear:

      The main clamp, which connects both parts of the downpipe together. I could not hear any leaks on this one at all, because it is made to fit together perfectly:

      Welding is most definietly not an option, I always keep my cars so I can return them to stock without any hassle.

      I am honestly considering just forgetting about downpipes and going back to stock downpipe. (And down-flashing back to stage 1 again). I doubt anyone on the forums can relate, but I personally come to forums to hear different ideas on things.

      I may have a second downpipe to sell locally.. unfortunately since this one is cut short 2.5" it will only mate up to stock catback, or else custom adapter will be needed.

      KEEP IN MIND.. I cannot even hear this leak to the naked ear.. Thats how picky I am. But you hold up a large vacuum hose from your ear to the connection edges and you hear it leaking. Not many people would care about a leak this small.


      Modified by placenta at 4:58 PM 6-20-2009

      Last edited by placenta; 07-07-2011 at 09:33 AM.
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    11. Member maotsetung's Avatar
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      06-20-2009 09:01 PM #11
      Shoots bro, you got some mad works here. Kudos to you man for the nice DIYs. It would be nice to get our own FAQs & DIYs Thread.


    12. Member NEW2B's Avatar
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      06-20-2009 09:52 PM #12
      [QUOTE=placenta
      I also miss the low end punch which is lost when you add a downpipe to the car. I have confirmed this on 4 of my different turbo cars and know this is not in my head.

      I am honestly considering just forgetting about downpipes and going back to stock downpipe. (And down-flashing back to stage 1 again). I doubt anyone on the forums can relate, but I personally come to forums to hear different ideas on things.

      i agree with, i lost low end power as well when i put in the 3" apr exhaust on my 06 passat.
      i think maybe 3" is to big, but before you give up on down pipes
      i would give the awe exhaust a shot.

      AWE-"Why did we choose 2.5 inch and not 3.0 inch diameter for our MK5 exhaust? Our first prototypes of this system were indeed 3.0 inch, but we found that the effort it took to move the large mass of air in the 3.0 inch system at lower rpms resulted in a loss of torque with very little offsetting gain up top. Take a look at our 3.0 inch prototype dyno sheets here and see why a 3.0 inch system is not appropriate for this car."


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      06-20-2009 10:15 PM #13
      Quote, originally posted by NEW2B »

      i agree with, i lost low end power as well when i put in the 3" apr exhaust on my 06 passat.
      i think maybe 3" is to big, but before you give up on down pipes
      i would give the awe exhaust a shot.

      AWE-"Why did we choose 2.5 inch and not 3.0 inch diameter for our MK5 exhaust? Our first prototypes of this system were indeed 3.0 inch, but we found that the effort it took to move the large mass of air in the 3.0 inch system at lower rpms resulted in a loss of torque with very little offsetting gain up top. Take a look at our 3.0 inch prototype dyno sheets here and see why a 3.0 inch system is not appropriate for this car."

      wow someone actually agrees with me?? i already tried the AWE on my 2006, and it was the best of all of these. but i still took it off.

      As of now... the stock downpipe is reinstalled. I feel better about it now. Only problem... I scratched my black textured rear bumper when i was messing with the uninstall. That downpipe was a BITCH to separate from the catback... had to take the catback off as a whole unit.

      So how much is the black bumper part and is it easy to install? Dont know if I'll bother if its expensive.

      I guess I have two downpipes for sale now for local pickup. I have made my final decision. After trying 2 downpipes, im not trying a 3rd..



      Modified by placenta at 7:17 PM 6-20-2009

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    14. Member maotsetung's Avatar
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      06-20-2009 10:35 PM #14
      I wonder if I'll have the problems w/ installations and leaks when Im able to purchase a Techtonics downpipe

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      06-20-2009 10:39 PM #15
      not many people would have noticed the leaks i found bro
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      06-20-2009 10:52 PM #16
      With the leaks, were you hearing them in the cabin? Im very picky on how much noise that goes in the cabin.

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      06-20-2009 10:53 PM #17
      no way i could hear them in the cabin. I only heard them with my ear next to the pipe.
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      06-20-2009 10:58 PM #18
      Oh ok. I was just a little worried. Tnx man.

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      06-21-2009 10:20 AM #19
      want to sell the bilyboat deal to me? I got the resonator-less cat-less 42DD downpipe, and damn... I feel sorry for my neighbors when I go to work at 4AM. It's way too loud. Oh, and if anyone wants a 42DD ceramic coated for $450, let me know. It's two days old.

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      06-21-2009 10:27 AM #20
      Quote, originally posted by ryan mills »
      want to sell the bilyboat deal to me? I got the resonator-less cat-less 42DD downpipe, and damn... I feel sorry for my neighbors when I go to work at 4AM. It's way too loud. Oh, and if anyone wants a 42DD ceramic coated for $450, let me know. It's two days old.

      i dont plan to ship the BB, but if i still have it in a couple weeks i might think about it.

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    21. Member NEW2B's Avatar
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      06-21-2009 11:28 AM #21
      what do you think about this from ATP
      [IMG][/IMG]
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      06-21-2009 10:26 PM #22
      Hey Placenta,

      I'm a perfectionist as well... nothing wrong with that. But I do have a suggestion that may help with your exhaust leak.

      1) Rotate the adapter pipe so that the slots on both ends are at the 12 and 6 o'clock positions.

      2) Now position the clamps so that the compression nut and bolt is also at the 6 o'clock position.

      3) Torque it down as much as it will take.

      What this does is position the clamp into the correct orientation to maximize compression of the adapter pipe onto the other pipe. The idea is to allow the adapter enough room to close up the gaps and not buckle as it's showing in your great photographs.

      By orientating the adapter this way, it's providing a better seal because the two ends of the adapter can compress better.... did I make any sense here... hope so.

      Good luck... great looking job... B&B makes a nice looking system.
      Is loud a bad thing? Wish I could hear it.

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      06-21-2009 10:29 PM #23
      Thanks for the tips, good idea for next time. I have my stock downpipe back on since yesterday and I have new found low end power again which i missed.
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      06-22-2009 10:23 AM #24
      plac, not busting your balls, but if you had a 2.5" on your old gti and took it off, why did you try two 3" on this one? and especially the last one.. the 42dd was at least resonated, so that would have been a little quieter than the bb. I dunno, just seems like alot of work for nothing when you already knew what the result was going to be from past experiences
      Check out my Garage build thread -2008.5 GTI 2.0 TSI 6MT / APR stage2, 42DD 3" dp w/cat, 2 RAI o2 spacers, 3" Magnaflow exhaust, Carbonio Stg1+2 intake, AWE dv relocation w/ GFB DV+, BSH TB pipe, APR IC, South Bend Stg2 Endurance clutch, BSH mounts, Dieselgeek SS, FFM shift bracket bushings, Forge big knob shifter, Koni coils, Coolingmist CMGS Meth injection & USRT spacer (DO3 & Snow 100 nozzles), 19" Miro stp3's

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      06-22-2009 10:28 AM #25
      Quote, originally posted by Slayer »
      plac, not busting your balls, but if you had a 2.5" on your old gti and took it off, why did you try two 3" on this one? and especially the last one.. the 42dd was at least resonated, so that would have been a little quieter than the bb. I dunno, just seems like alot of work for nothing when you already knew what the result was going to be from past experiences

      Like a lot of people here.. mods are my passion, and my obsession. Its a curse. The 2.5" was over 3 years ago, and i didnt remember it much anymore. I had to try a downpipe to convince myself it was no good for my driving style. Then I tried another one as i liked the 1 piece design and stainless construction. There wasnt much noticable difference in sound between the 2.

      I dont care what anyone says about this, as i have had at least 35 cars in my lifetime, maybe 40. The GTI is not a "highway car". Period. Its best power range is not freeway. It is an around town quick car. When you change turbos, then you talk a different story maybe. My BMW 135i was a freeway car, to the extreme. Pure freeway power, and it was best on the freeway. 80-140mph in the 135i was shocking. The GTI is nothing like it, and definitely better 0-60 around town for its prime range. A downpipe on a GTI ruined all the low-midrange punch it is loved for.

      i had always wanted a 4 door and settled for 2 door cars twice previously for the good deal i could nt pass up. so i was always left wanting the car i really wanted. This time i finally got the exact car i wanted and i hope to keep this one at least a couple years, if not 3-4. The car is perfect and i gotta keep it. Reminds me i have to replace my rear lower bumper as i scratched it during this work. Its the only part of my car thats not flawless.

      (just ordered a replacement lower textured valence, $180 shipped)


      Modified by placenta at 10:04 AM 6-22-2009

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    26. Member eric brower's Avatar
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      06-26-2009 08:05 AM #26
      im running a 3" non-catted downpipe and just installed a 3" cat back last night. there is definitely a loss of low end power. watching the boost gauge, at lower RPMs it now just creeps up to 10 and flys from there, unlike when i had stage one where it would fly past 0 up to 18. if you like low end power like i do, just stick with the stock dp and stage 1

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      06-26-2009 10:24 AM #27
      Quote, originally posted by eric brower »
      im running a 3" non-catted downpipe and just installed a 3" cat back last night. there is definitely a loss of low end power. watching the boost gauge, at lower RPMs it now just creeps up to 10 and flys from there, unlike when i had stage one where it would fly past 0 up to 18. if you like low end power like i do, just stick with the stock dp and stage 1

      but.. on the same token.. you could say it spools up super fast to 18psi, then exhaust cant escape because of the restrictive stock cat. That quick spool doesnt mean much if it all gets stuck at the stock cats. Bottom line, I think its all a wash in the end.

      I bet my low end would get worse if i added a catback. I think the medium for people as tight as me is just a downpipe, while keeping stock catback.

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      06-26-2009 12:36 PM #28
      To Eric and Placenta:

      Finally, two brothers who have justified my indecision re: whether to buy a downpipe and go Stage 2!


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      06-26-2009 01:37 PM #29
      Quote, originally posted by A3_yuppie »
      To Eric and Placenta:

      Finally, two brothers who have justified my indecision re: whether to buy a downpipe and go Stage 2!

      so which way did you decide to go?

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    30. Member eric brower's Avatar
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      06-26-2009 04:11 PM #30
      the catback did make the torque worse. i noticed a bit of a loss with the dp but not too bad. now with the catback its even more noticeable, to a point where im considering going back to stock exhaust with stage 1. not to mention it would help with the sleeper appeal.

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      2006 A3 2.0T & 2009 A4 2.0T Quattro
      06-27-2009 03:21 PM #31
      Quote, originally posted by placenta »
      so which way did you decide to go?

      Staying at Stage 1. There is so much low end torque I rarely rev the motor above 4500rpm anyway.


    32. Member
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      2013 VW GTI DSG
      06-27-2009 03:24 PM #32
      Quote, originally posted by A3_yuppie »

      Staying at Stage 1. There is so much low end torque I rarely rev the motor above 4500rpm anyway.

      thats cool. i might end up that way.

      after more testing on my 42dd today, the power band is clear. you dont punch it until about 4000rpm. thats where the surge is with the downpipe. you keep it above 4000rpm it spins thru.

      GTI Drivers Edition - Unitronic Stage 2 91 Octane - Unitronic Customized Downpipe - Unitronic DSG Stage 1 - Golf R Intercooler - Focal Integration Speakers - OEM LED Tails - Unibrace UB - R8 Coilpacks - Soundaktor Switch - Tyrolsport Deadset Collar Kits Front + Rear
      LastHumansGarage / GTI Master / Plac

    33. 07-05-2009 09:57 AM #33
      i just installed this downpipe on my B6 Passat 1.8 TSI

      full install details here
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4463419


    34. Member
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      2013 VW GTI DSG
      07-05-2009 11:45 AM #34
      Quote, originally posted by A3_yuppie »

      Staying at Stage 1. There is so much low end torque I rarely rev the motor above 4500rpm anyway.

      Funny that I ended up that way also. No chance of me reinstalling, since i sold my 42dd downpipe already. I just like the car the way it was made, no CELs, tight low end power around town, emmisions friendly.

      GTI Drivers Edition - Unitronic Stage 2 91 Octane - Unitronic Customized Downpipe - Unitronic DSG Stage 1 - Golf R Intercooler - Focal Integration Speakers - OEM LED Tails - Unibrace UB - R8 Coilpacks - Soundaktor Switch - Tyrolsport Deadset Collar Kits Front + Rear
      LastHumansGarage / GTI Master / Plac

    35. Member
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      07-05-2009 11:46 AM #35
      PS, fed1 made an update stating you have to cut the downpipe to fit a stock catback after all. So it turns out I did do it all correctly for stock catback.

      Pending buyer on my BB downpipe for early next week if no one takes it before then.

      GTI Drivers Edition - Unitronic Stage 2 91 Octane - Unitronic Customized Downpipe - Unitronic DSG Stage 1 - Golf R Intercooler - Focal Integration Speakers - OEM LED Tails - Unibrace UB - R8 Coilpacks - Soundaktor Switch - Tyrolsport Deadset Collar Kits Front + Rear
      LastHumansGarage / GTI Master / Plac

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