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    Thread: Another wiper motor failure due to aftermarket HIDs

    1. Member Gryphon001's Avatar
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      12-07-2009 09:10 PM #141
      First you need to get rid of the relay... it's useless and there is no way to get rid of the bulb out warning without somehow getting a dummy bulb with a resistor into the empty plug.

      So far the ones that seem to be having the most success are the Retro Solution digital ballasts and the VVMI kits. But they are not completely immune to blowing out the motors. You will need to place the 'canbus adapter' or 'warning canceller' or whatever they call it just before the ballasts. I believe the theory is that they are supposed to minimize power spikes through the harness. Than you will need to reprogram the the lights via vagcom. you have to find a setting in the long coding to go from halogen lights to halogen high and xenon low. Just don't change it to bi-xenon... I don't know what it would do but I don't think either of us really wants to find out. Last but not least, do not EVER turn on the wipers while the HID's are warming up. I think that is the critical time where the power spikes may occur and it's best not to tempt fate and wait till the lights are up to full power and going before running the wipers.

      That is pretty much how most of us have got the lights working I think. If I missed anything or screwed up somewhere than feel free to correct me.


    2. 12-08-2009 12:05 AM #142
      just got my 2010 TDI and was wondering if i'll have this problem when i put them on the fog's? skimmed though but didn't see anything specific

    3. Member Gryphon001's Avatar
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      12-08-2009 12:11 AM #143
      to the best of my limited knowledge... no.

      No one I have spoken to has ever had an issue with having them in their fogs. It seems to be limited to just the headlights.


    4. 12-08-2009 12:12 AM #144
      sweet thanks for the quick reply

    5. Junior Member
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      12-13-2009 11:17 PM #145
      I'm running the vvme HID kit and they are 55w - 6000k. I had the flickering issue and I did the VAG-COM configuration and now the flickering is fine. So far so good, everything works well, and it's been about 2 months or so.

      Now here is my question. I noticed that if I have my wipers running at night, with HID's on, everything is fine. But when I use the windshield washer to clean the windshield, I smell something burning, and it smells like electric type of burning something being overloaded or fyring?

      Can someone comment on this? I'm wondering if the windshield washer nozzles are putting extra resistance on the electrical circuit and that's why it smells...I figure it will burn soon if I continue to do this?


    6. Member fergie.g's Avatar
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      12-14-2009 01:20 PM #146
      Quote, originally posted by AAudiA6 »
      ...I'm wondering if the windshield washer nozzles are putting extra resistance on the electrical circuit and that's why it smells...I figure it will burn soon if I continue to do this?

      Interesting development, of all the posts on here, it didn't really clarify the issue of what happens if you run your windshield washer fluid and wipers at the same time. My guess is that if you really would want to avoid using the wipers, do what some of us did and wipe some Rain-X on the windshield. $6/bottle vs. $200+ for a wiper motor, you choose.

      I recently just bought a VVME kit but I'd like to confirm all possible conditions to make sure it works, I'm having second thoughts now because if it snows, you'll definitely need the wipers in those stormy nights.

      Whatever happened to Kwanja_a3's hid install? Did his wiper motor really burn out because of it?

      check out my blog!

      http://www.studiofg.ca

    7. 12-14-2009 02:27 PM #147
      Quote, originally posted by AAudiA6 »

      Now here is my question. I noticed that if I have my wipers running at night, with HID's on, everything is fine. But when I use the windshield washer to clean the windshield, I smell something burning, and it smells like electric type of burning something being overloaded or fyring?

      Can someone comment on this? I'm wondering if the windshield washer nozzles are putting extra resistance on the electrical circuit and that's why it smells...I figure it will burn soon if I continue to do this?

      When was the last time you used your washer/nozzles? Was it serviced by Audi most of the time. Mind you, the 'factory' washer liquid has that weird aroma,unlike the unscented ones found at local auto-stores. Just a thought.

      Otherwise, I used the VVME *35w, w/out can bus, w/out vag-com and never had major issues (except for a 2-3 cases- not often- where the HID flickered for a quick sec- while driving w/ wipers on...) i used the VVME for at least 30k.

      What I noticed however w/ the Retrosolutions/ digital kit- the start up-s are very 'soft' then gradual brightness to normal level after 5seconds. I'm hoping that with that lower start up power that it is preventing any 'powerspikes' to the electrical wiring to the wiper system. so far- i have used the RS kit for 20k-- and (knock on wood) no issues.
      There must be some kind of harness that can be added to the main power lines to the headlaps- perhaps a fuse based connector to 'stop' any kind of power surge going back up to the wiper system.. anyone
      w/ that kind of electrical brainiac can look into this?

      e


    8. 02-02-2010 09:09 PM #148
      so I just installed the retro solutions HID kit (35w, 6000k, canbus warning canceler) and i blew my wiper motor instantly. im not sure what caused it, but now I'm going to take my chances at the delaer going for a replacement.

    9. 02-02-2010 10:03 PM #149
      okay- so that confirms it- no KIT is safe. But Im also beginning to wonder something. Has all the wiper motor failure been ONLY linked to aftermarket HIDs with aftermarket headlamp housing? Or is it also an issue on HID kits and using standard reflector housing?

      Here's why i wondered- it is beleived that the wiper module is controlled by same can-bus system controlling headlamp/lighting module. We all assume that the power spike from the Kit maybe the main culprit for wiper motor failure. The power spike- where does it travel through? The main ''pink'' harness that attaches to the headlamp housing- right? And that main harness is connected to the central electrical circuitry of the car which includes the wiper controls. Its a long shot, but perhaps none oem housing and the connectors may have some factors for being unable to control these power surges from HID kits.
      Now, if there have been failures on HID kits on oem reflector housing, PERHAPS there is a way to fabricate an add-on harness that would attach between the main housing's pin connectors and the car's main headlamp power line (the ''pink'' harness) and be able to ''control'' the assumed powerspike. Im no engineer, but somehow it makes sense dont you think? If so- that would be a money making add-on and have everyone enjoy afermarket HIDs with no worries- assuming otherwise.
      I have FKs- the really old version of FK angel eyes currently on my car. I have a 2nd set sitting on my project table awaiting finalization of new LED project, and this version of the FKs are supposedly DOT approved, whilst my current FKs where not approved for street use. Im thinking maybe ill have a failure on wiper motor if or when i install the new housings if i dont find a way to control the power interference or surge that these Kits causes.
      My thoughts bottomline, if there's a way or a harness that would regulate the aftermarket HID kits powersurge and fool the system that it is operating a halogen bulb- which could be placed between the housing and the main lighting powerline-(somewhere along the lines of a kufatec harness) i think this MAY solve this nagging issue.

      any thoughts?



      Modified by tiptronic at 6:17 PM 2/2/2010


    10. Member The Sage's Avatar
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      02-03-2010 12:39 AM #150
      In reviewing the wiring diagram for my girlfriends A3 i have found that the left headlamp and wiper motor share a common ground located below or in the area of the left headlamp. i havent messed with it yet but i was thinking about making a new ground location for the wiper motor. Im sure this isnt the only issue with the setup.

    11. 02-03-2010 12:47 AM #151
      Quote, originally posted by The Sage »
      In reviewing the wiring diagram for my girlfriends A3 i have found that the left headlamp and wiper motor share a common ground located below or in the area of the left headlamp. i havent messed with it yet but i was thinking about making a new ground location for the wiper motor. Im sure this isnt the only issue with the setup.

      HMMMMN, interesting find...


    12. 02-03-2010 11:51 AM #152
      I think thats really interesting because I tested my setup with only the passenger side headlight -- but it fried literally the first time i turned on both sets of lights after they were installed.

      I'm going to be taking the car (as is, with aftermarket hid's installed) down to the local audi dealer and see what happens. If they deny it, I'll take the HIDs out and take the car down to the other audi dealer. heh..

      unfortunately its raining this week!!


    13. 02-03-2010 01:24 PM #153
      Quote, originally posted by The Sage »
      In reviewing the wiring diagram for my girlfriends A3 i have found that the left headlamp and wiper motor share a common ground located below or in the area of the left headlamp. i havent messed with it yet but i was thinking about making a new ground location for the wiper motor. Im sure this isnt the only issue with the setup.

      If you can take a pic of that location , or otherwise, i'm curious as to where this is located, perhaps play with re-locating the ground for the headlamps, hopefully help minimize the chance for failure....


    14. 02-03-2010 05:24 PM #154
      Here's an excerpt from a volvo forum... and go figure..what the hell
      does 'earthed' mean? grounded maybe? Volvo- go figure.

      HIDs in projectors will not blind opposing traffic, and therefore should not be illegal IMO. On the other hand, when HIDs are mounted in reflector assemblies, they become an absolute nuisance to other drivers, and they should be illegal.

      The only damage the HIDs can cause is to your own headlight units, word has it that they can damage/fade out the inner chrome linings. And besides that, some people report burnt-out windscreen wiper motors after installing HIDs in these cars because the right? headlamp is earthed along with the wiper motor.
      to avoid this happening, it's advised to earth the HIDs directly to the chassis of the car and not to connect it to the already existing earthing wire from the previous halogens. The burn out does not occur immediately but takes time, i.e. the longer you use you wipers.

      Do you have a warning canceler with those? btw, love the color of your car

      Here's the post:
      http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/...12924


    15. 02-03-2010 08:59 PM #155
      Ok.. well its time to replace my blown wiper motor. I don't want to have the dealer do it (too much $$$), so can someone point me to the part # and perhaps a quick guide on how to do it?

      2006 A3, 2.0T


    16. Member VWAddict's Avatar
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      02-03-2010 10:04 PM #156
      Quote, originally posted by tiptronic »
      Here's an excerpt from a volvo forum... and go figure..what the hell
      does 'earthed' mean? grounded maybe? Volvo- go figure.

      Not Volvo... Brits, my friend.

      We British have always called 'Ground' "Earth".

      The third pin on a British power connector is always called the "Earth pin".

      Keith

      Quote Originally Posted by MisterJJ View Post
      A "jump from a VW to an Audi"?!? I wouldn't call it a jump. It's more like shuffling along the sidewalk, tripping on a crack, bumping into a gorgeous blonde, walking away in a daze, and later finding out that she stole your wallet.

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      02-03-2010 10:15 PM #157
      Quote, originally posted by Diranged »
      Ok.. well its time to replace my blown wiper motor.

      Would you be willing to send me your blown motor? I would love to rip it apart and see if I could figure out what exactly blows and if it could be fixed and/or prevented.

      Quote Originally Posted by MachnickiA3 View Post
      stick that in your "fleshy patch"

    18. 02-03-2010 10:34 PM #158
      Quote, originally posted by VWAddict »

      Not Volvo... Brits, my friend.

      We British have always called 'Ground' "Earth".

      The third pin on a British power connector is always called the "Earth pin".

      Keith

      sounds good. So i wonder if its possible to separate the headlamp ground/earthed wire from the wipermotor ground.


    19. Member VWAddict's Avatar
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      02-03-2010 11:06 PM #159
      Piece of cake.

      For maximum super-safety, remove Headlamp ground from everything at the harness, and run separate ground wire all the way back to the battery Black wire. -Doesn't HAVE to be the battery end, can be the chassis end, but that is a sure fire causal eliminator.

      Keith

      Quote Originally Posted by MisterJJ View Post
      A "jump from a VW to an Audi"?!? I wouldn't call it a jump. It's more like shuffling along the sidewalk, tripping on a crack, bumping into a gorgeous blonde, walking away in a daze, and later finding out that she stole your wallet.

    20. 02-03-2010 11:13 PM #160
      Quote, originally posted by VWAddict »
      Piece of cake.

      For maximum super-safety, remove Headlamp ground from everything at the harness, and run separate ground wire all the way back to the battery Black wire. -Doesn't HAVE to be the battery end, can be the chassis end, but that is a sure fire causal eliminator.

      Keith

      First i guess i need to know where is the headlamp ground connected to which i assume shared by the wipermotor ground. I was just thinking relocate thw wiper motor or the headlamp ground. But Im confused when you said remove Headlamp ground from everything at the harness, and run separate ground wire all the way back to the battery Black wire What harness? The main wire that connects to the headlamp housing (the multi-pin harness)?

      and thanks!


      Modified by tiptronic at 7:41 PM 2/3/2010


    21. Member VWAddict's Avatar
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      02-03-2010 11:26 PM #161
      Yep... the ground wires from the harness... or -failing that- just lose the ground connection right at the Ballast, and run THAT to the battery -ve terminal.

      The idea is to 'star-ground' anything sensitive or pollutive DIRECT back to a low-impedance node at the battery negative wire, or as CLOSE to it as is physically possible.

      If you use small 'hub' grounds, and a resistance interferes with the conductive path to the battery (the paint on the chassis can do this!) then it's not really '0V' any more. -Direct HF modulation (as you find in HF switching ballasts) does lots of evil work. Parallel capacitors can try to 'snuff' it, but inductors can be a big help too.

      But removing any 'ground-sharing' and taking things back to the CENTER of the 'star' (in other words the battery terminal lead) is a reliable way to eliminate zero-volt reference modulation problems.

      Keith

      Quote Originally Posted by MisterJJ View Post
      A "jump from a VW to an Audi"?!? I wouldn't call it a jump. It's more like shuffling along the sidewalk, tripping on a crack, bumping into a gorgeous blonde, walking away in a daze, and later finding out that she stole your wallet.

    22. 02-04-2010 12:16 AM #162
      Unfortunately I'm a bit gun-shy with regards to *trying* to fry another wiper motor.. but using aftermarket headlamps gives you a really easy way to try this out. Take the ground connection out of the *headlamp side* of the connector, and ground it locally to the frame.

      I may do this when I get my wiper motor fixed, but I'm still giong to avoid doing anything that could cause the wiper motor to fail.. so I won't really know if it fixes it or not.


    23. 02-04-2010 01:29 PM #163
      Then I can only suggest that if you do have your wipermotor replaced - to use perhaps HOEN xenonmatch to 'mimic' output of the Xenons instead of actual aftermarket HIDs.

      e


    24. 02-05-2010 06:24 PM #164
      As mentioned before in this thread, a ways back, we recommend VAGCOM programming and a wiring harness over the cancelers.

    25. 02-05-2010 07:23 PM #165
      Can you clarify about the wiring harness over cancelers? You guys sell the cancelers ... so I'm a bit confused.

    26. Member
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      02-05-2010 07:30 PM #166
      Quote, originally posted by retrosolutions »
      As mentioned before in this thread, a ways back, we recommend VAGCOM programming and a wiring harness over the cancelers.

      Why the VAGCOM programming? Seems to me that plenty of people have done that and it still blew out their motors. In fact, I'm not sure if it isn't everyone with blown motors. I never did VAGCOM programming with mine. No code cancellers, wiring harness, relays, or anything else. No blown wiper motor either.

      If you know what the problem is and/or know the solution, please share it with us.

      Quote Originally Posted by MachnickiA3 View Post
      stick that in your "fleshy patch"

    27. 02-05-2010 07:47 PM #167
      Quote, originally posted by retrosolutions »
      As mentioned before in this thread, a ways back, we recommend VAGCOM programming and a wiring harness over the cancelers.

      Perhaps if someone can fabricate a module that would attach onto the multipin socket of the headlamp housing- to act as a ''diffuser'' for the powersurge from the ballast travelling back to the mainline/ground to the can-bus controller for the wipers/headlamps?

      does that make sense?

      i havent had a wipermotor failure with either VVME or Retrosolution- no VAG recoding. Perhaps maybe the way my car was grounded that is ''lessening' the chance of a failure- but then the question comes to mind- how could my A3 be diff than the others.

      sometimes i think maybe my modded LED need for wattage is taking away any power upsurge? but these LEDs takes less than .05 amps (i think). many many questions!!!
      e

      e


    28. Member SilverSquirrel's Avatar
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      02-05-2010 10:39 PM #168
      sounds like an RFI problem, similar to the old days when your AM radio would pick up the whine of the alternator, only way worse. Problems were solved with choke filters and other wiring tricks.

      The Wiper motor has an integral control module with sensitive microchips, that seem to be getting zapped by the HID igniter high voltage causing either a voltage spike.. (ground wire hypothesis)

      or an electromagnetic RFI type spike (EMI pulse like from nuke bombs killing all electrical devices even far away from the blast zone like in the movies only teeny tiny just enough to zap a chip 3 feet away)

      It would be great to bench test a toasted wiper motor to see where the control module is cooked. I dont think even the audi boffins have bothered, obviously.

      Audi is the girl who was really cute in high school, but now puts on way too much makeup in order to try and hang out with the hot girls.

    29. 02-05-2010 11:41 PM #169
      Quote, originally posted by SilverSquirrel »
      sounds like an RFI problem, similar to the old days when your AM radio would pick up the whine of the alternator, only way worse. Problems were solved with choke filters and other wiring tricks.

      The Wiper motor has an integral control module with sensitive microchips, that seem to be getting zapped by the HID igniter high voltage causing either a voltage spike.. (ground wire hypothesis)

      or an electromagnetic RFI type spike (EMI pulse like from nuke bombs killing all electrical devices even far away from the blast zone like in the movies only teeny tiny just enough to zap a chip 3 feet away)

      It would be great to bench test a toasted wiper motor to see where the control module is cooked. I dont think even the audi boffins have bothered, obviously.

      That indeed seem to be the case here where Audi may have a design flaw (or rather electrical diagram flaw)


    30. 02-10-2010 06:12 PM #170
      Ok.. I'm not sure why I didn't see this before.

      http://www.retrosolutionsllc.c...added

      That's a wiring harness that makes the HIDs actually start up directly off the battery and provide a 50w load on the stock circuit to simulate normal headlights. Has anyone tried these?


    31. 02-10-2010 06:50 PM #171
      but I thought there was a post with someone using the direct battery relay harness and still had the wiper-motor failure.

      anyone?


    32. 02-10-2010 08:00 PM #172
      reading through the thread pretty carefully, I don't actually think that anyone (in this thread) reported a failure with a relay in place. I saw one person report issues with the car thinking the headlights were out -- but I suspect thats because they expected the canbus canceler to provide 30-50w of resistance, but I think that the canbus canceler is just providing ENOUGH resistance to account for the difference between an HID and a Halogen bulb.

      Other than that, I see one person who posted saying that a vag-com update is not a guarantee fix for the wiper motor failure -- and that the only real fix is to use a relay. I think his post was mis-understood though...


    33. 02-13-2010 09:27 PM #173
      I posted this in another thread... but it relates here as well (And will go in one final post as well, for historical purposes):


      "So I installed the H7 Relay kit from Retro Solutions today... that seems to have solved my stereo issue. I havnt driven around much, but starting up the headlights after the stereo is on 5-10 times hasnt reproduced the problem yet. The install was very simple, and pretty much plug n play. The only issues I had was finding places to mount the ground connections as well as the relay itself. I wanted as hidden of an install as possible, so I took a while to do that. Otherwise, everything went very easily and the cable lengths were just fine."

      To be clear: I have no intention of purposely trying to blow my new wiper motor... but I'm hoping this will help prevent the wiper from burning out if I mistakingly turn the lights on while the wipers are going...


    34. 02-13-2010 09:35 PM #174
      oh and fwiw.. for now I've removed the canbus warning canceler completely from the system. it would be very easy to put it back in so that it provided some 'load' on the stock circuit. as i understand it though, the retro solutions kit is supposed to provide a load on the circuit itself.

      (i question how this works in the audi though -- because the system only plugs into the driver side headlight switch... so the passenger side headlight power source is completely left disconnected.)


    35. 02-26-2010 12:56 PM #175
      I had my HIDs blow the motor yesterday.. anyone have any problems running hids in the fogs? and any cheap fix for the motor?

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