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    VWVortex


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    Thread: Make a DIY Dwell meter?

    1. 07-02-2009 02:55 PM #1
      I'm wondering if I can build a DIY Dwell meter, use it as an in-cabin ECU/mixture monitor...
      my oil stain is bigger than yours
      the Race Dasher Project is now on Facebook, 180hp and 188tq... while miss-firing BADLY
      the Dasher Owners Group is now on Facebook

    2. 07-02-2009 03:04 PM #2
      make a harness for it and run it into the cabin and hook the dwell meter up to it

    3. 07-02-2009 03:10 PM #3
      ya, I was more like thinking... making a gauge
      my oil stain is bigger than yours
      the Race Dasher Project is now on Facebook, 180hp and 188tq... while miss-firing BADLY
      the Dasher Owners Group is now on Facebook

    4. 07-02-2009 03:14 PM #4
      that would something crazy, you could remove the gauge from the metter and ( say you made a hole on your dash to fit it and install it on the backside of the hole.

    5. 07-02-2009 03:22 PM #5
      Why not just get a WB o2 & A/F gauge? Im using a NB A/F gauge right now just for A/F adjusting:

      The NB works great when your just reading the o2 but once its connected to the ecu the NB readings are wothless IMO but thats where a WB comes into play.
      I would think a dwell for monitoring would be just a vague as a NB A/F gauge.

    6. 07-02-2009 03:26 PM #6
      Quote, originally posted by johnnyGO »
      Why not just get a WB o2 & A/F gauge?

      *sigh*
      my oil stain is bigger than yours
      the Race Dasher Project is now on Facebook, 180hp and 188tq... while miss-firing BADLY
      the Dasher Owners Group is now on Facebook

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      07-02-2009 04:50 PM #7
      Measuring the dwell would be similar to watching the dpr on cis-e? I've been doing that in cabin for a while. Then I added a narrowband reading with another multimeter. A bit more useful, but more or less just snapshots.
      I'm going to be hooking up my oscilloscope to the lambda circuit. Should be a bit better
      I really suck at smog.

    8. 07-02-2009 06:21 PM #8
      a normal voltmeter/multi-meter can't read dwell otherwise it would easy-peasy to make one
      my oil stain is bigger than yours
      the Race Dasher Project is now on Facebook, 180hp and 188tq... while miss-firing BADLY
      the Dasher Owners Group is now on Facebook

    9. 07-02-2009 11:05 PM #9
      check craftsman... i have a multi meter with dwell from sears........

    10. 07-02-2009 11:21 PM #10
      sure... I'm going to buy a Craftsman multi-meter... hack it into pieces to make an in-cabin dwell meter gauge...
      my oil stain is bigger than yours
      the Race Dasher Project is now on Facebook, 180hp and 188tq... while miss-firing BADLY
      the Dasher Owners Group is now on Facebook

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      07-03-2009 12:56 PM #11
      just get one of these, it tells you the same thing, just from a different part of the circuit:
      http://www.autometer.com/cat_g...=2817

    12. 07-03-2009 01:25 PM #12
      If its a narrow band then its basicly worthless for monitoring but is fine for adjusting A/F WHEN the o2 is unlugged from the ecu other wise the gauge just dances up and down (it does "ok" at WOT). The narrow band gauge just seems like it cant keep up, you get on the gas and it takes a second for it to read. So thats why a wideband is the way to go, now I know there crazy pricy (same reason I dont have one) but IMO why use an inaccurate gauge to monitor something so important as A/F and thats why I pulled the gauge from my dash and put it under my hood.

      narrow band non-WOT
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGE_IrC9MAc
      narrow band WOT



      Modified by johnnyGO at 10:31 AM 7-3-2009

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      07-04-2009 09:19 AM #13
      All you wideband affectionados try to sell the same story. If narrowband is worthless, why was it ever used by the manufacturers? I have run a couple different gauges on CIS-E for over 15 years with very good results. I can use them to set my base mixture and my WOT mixture with my adjustable enrichment circuit. Under steady state cruise, CIS-E goes lean anyway. The constant change is how the feedback circuit operates. The gauge is merely reflecting reality. Connect a DVM and you will see the same response. Additionally a dwell meter reacts the same as well. The gauges I have are both linear LED types, one is the early gauge from SDS (NLA), the other, my favorite was from TWM, too bad it is also NLA. I prefer either of them to the typical round gauge.

    14. 07-04-2009 01:30 PM #14
      They used narrowbands because they didint have widebands, I mean come on the same can be said now "why do all the top tunners use widebands?". As my above post said it can be used for setting your A/F and give you a rough reading @ WOT. The wideband setups are WAY more faster and have a much higher AND lower reading range then a narrowband, narrow bands read the best around stoich.
      So yes, you can use a narrowband but if you want to pull all the potential out of your car a wideband is the only way to go.




      Modified by johnnyGO at 10:32 AM 7-4-2009

    15. 07-04-2009 01:40 PM #15
      Quote, originally posted by johnnyGO »
      So yes, you can use a narrowband but if you want to pull all the potential out of your car a wideband is the only way to go.

      for that argument... why not go MegaSquirt
      anywaysies... no realistic solution to a "Dwell meter gauge"?
      my oil stain is bigger than yours
      the Race Dasher Project is now on Facebook, 180hp and 188tq... while miss-firing BADLY
      the Dasher Owners Group is now on Facebook

    16. 07-04-2009 02:17 PM #16
      that is a awsome point and I agree, EFI is the best way to go. But some people like CIS and others like carbs, its all in what you want from the car. As we all know A/F is high on the CIS performance list so why not use the best tool for the job (IE wideband), if down the line you plan on going with EFI or any other fuel system the o2 can tag along so its $200 well spent.
      As for the dwell meter, why not make it so it can be mounted inside then when you need to adjust things you can unhook it to bring it under the hood?
      Or what about opening up the meter then just lengther the wires that go to the lcd screen and flush mount it in the dash, then you can tuck the meter itself anyplace you want.



      Modified by johnnyGO at 11:20 AM 7-4-2009

    17. 07-04-2009 03:44 PM #17
      well... as for mounting a "true" needle type dwell meter, they usually aren't balanced to be used in the vertical, they are meant to be used laying down level. I did a little googleing and apparently the Dwell meter uses the same pulse interpretation as a tach... I'm almost tempted to try a cheapo electronic tach from my local Harbor Freight. It will not have the same reading pattern as a dwell meter (10%-90%) but I guess I might be able to determine what "RPM" coresponds to the usual 45-55% reading on the dwell.
      my oil stain is bigger than yours
      the Race Dasher Project is now on Facebook, 180hp and 188tq... while miss-firing BADLY
      the Dasher Owners Group is now on Facebook

    18. 07-04-2009 06:18 PM #18
      Also I wonder if you would have issues using a analog meter while driving do to normal road vibrations and bumps, I know my analog meters are pretty sensitive.

    19. 07-04-2009 06:25 PM #19
      another very good point
      my oil stain is bigger than yours
      the Race Dasher Project is now on Facebook, 180hp and 188tq... while miss-firing BADLY
      the Dasher Owners Group is now on Facebook

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      07-04-2009 10:46 PM #20
      how is a wideband gonna make CIS anthing run better when it's output is not suitable for the ECU?? Even if the wideband gives you more data, there is nothing more you can do with it on a CIS system. If you have the idle mixture set correctly and correct fueling at WOT, that's as good as its gonna get with CIS.
      We are not talking SEM here. DOH


      Modified by antichristonwheels at 7:59 PM 7-4-2009

    21. 07-05-2009 01:49 AM #21
      you dont hook the wideband to the ecu, you just use it for tuning. I know the the LC-1's have an 0-1v option so Im pretty sure there is a poss of hooking it to your ecu (Im not sure on that thoe) but most just use it for tuning.

      Check it out, when we talk about A/F and o2's there is only UP TO 1v, a diff between .10v or even .05v can make or brake your performance. Narrow bands just dont have the accuracy that a wideband does, end of story.


      Modified by johnnyGO at 10:58 PM 7-4-2009

    22. 07-05-2009 10:44 AM #22
      Quote, originally posted by johnnyGO »
      I know the the LC-1's have an 0-1v option so Im pretty sure there is a poss of hooking it to your ecu

      yep.. BUT THERE'S MORE!
      using your laptop you can change the output curve and "stoich" point... make the car a touch leaner, or richer for your needs
      my oil stain is bigger than yours
      the Race Dasher Project is now on Facebook, 180hp and 188tq... while miss-firing BADLY
      the Dasher Owners Group is now on Facebook

    23. 07-05-2009 12:28 PM #23
      southcross I know this may be a little out there but what about filling a analog dwell meter with mineral oil, so its the same concept as the auto oil filled gauges.

    24. 07-05-2009 12:50 PM #24
      most of the Dwell meters I've seen aren't "sealed"... would be kind of interesting to keep the fluid in the "needle" area and not all over the electronics and your interior
      my oil stain is bigger than yours
      the Race Dasher Project is now on Facebook, 180hp and 188tq... while miss-firing BADLY
      the Dasher Owners Group is now on Facebook

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      07-05-2009 09:37 PM #25
      CIS doesn't have the tunabiltiy of SEM end of story. Jeesh you try to help and the Fast and the Furious appear, unable to function without their wideband...
      CIS has a single adjustment, base mixture, which when set correctly, even with big cams is about .80 VDC, well within the capabilities of a old school O2 sensor. The only reason I can adjust WOT fuel is because I made djustable enrichment circuits, which I have used in multiple cars for more than 15 years. There is no ability to alter individual points of the fuel curve. I can tune a CIS or CIS-E engine with one of my meters or just a DVM to run as good as it is going to. Even with a wideband, it's the same drill. On a plain CIS car with no O2 sensor, I can do it by ear, even with big cams. Of course I was doing that before you were born because that was the only way. My 2 liter Scirocco made 150 on a dynojet, fueling was spot on. A wideband would not have helped at all.

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