DSG/Mechatronic Failure Update

[jettaboydc]

I'm going to purchase a extended warranty from JM&A, I bought in my 2006 GLI and I have the clucks coming from a stop from 3 to 2 to 1 and going from 1 to 2. The dealer ship charged me $112 to so call scan my DSG and they said they found fault codes. This was saturday. He then said that he would call VWOA and ask what to do. He told me to call back today. I called and he said that VWOA told him that the whole transmission needs to be replaced. Mind you it is fine once it goes pass second gear. REV is fine too. Its really just 1-2 gears. SO I got 75,000 miles on my car and told him I dont have the cash right now for this. He said go see the JM&A guy. I saw him and asked him eight times does it cover the DSG, he said a transmission is a transmission. So should I get the Warranty?

[krazyboi]

Quote, originally posted by jettaboydc »

I'm going to purchase a extended warranty from JM&A, I bought in my 2006 GLI and I have the clucks coming from a stop from 3 to 2 to 1 and going from 1 to 2. The dealer ship charged me $112 to so call scan my DSG and they said they found fault codes. This was saturday. He then said that he would call VWOA and ask what to do. He told me to call back today. I called and he said that VWOA told him that the whole transmission needs to be replaced. Mind you it is fine once it goes pass second gear. REV is fine too. Its really just 1-2 gears. SO I got 75,000 miles on my car and told him I dont have the cash right now for this. He said go see the JM&A guy. I saw him and asked him eight times does it cover the DSG, he said a transmission is a transmission. So should I get the Warranty?

From my own personal experience w/ extended warranty (Warrantech)... once the company found out I had a expensive issue (Bad DSG) they sent a inspector to come check out the car. Upon finding out I had aftermarket suspension, they voided my warranty and refunded me 1/3 of what I paid for. WTF does suspension and DSG have to do w/ each other...nothing!

There was an exclusion page that states all kinds of crap which included modifying the suspension (of course I didn't get to see this prior to buying the warranty).

All I can recommend is...read the fine print!

[jettaboydc]

Thanks I glad I have not did any mods to my car. Its just I dont understand how it cost that much. I mean its not like I have a GT-R or a F-430 lololol

[krazyboi]

How much what cost? The DSG part and repair? or the warranty?

The DSG transmission control unit itself is going to be close to $3k for repairs I'm not sure how much the whole transmission would cost.

[-AKA-]

Quote, originally posted by jettaboydc »

I called and he said that VWOA told him that the whole transmission needs to be replaced.

A new DSG trans will run you $6,000+...I speak from experience on having mine replaced under warranty that is.

Keep us posted

[jettaboydc]

WOW How much for the nissan GT-R trans, They are both made by the same company I know it is way diffrent but wowwww. I hope When I get this warranty all will be ok

[VWRedux]

Extended warranty from JM&A (VW's choice) will not cover DSG's since they are only NOW noticing that these trannies are actually manual trannies with clutch packs. Call and have them send you in writing that they will cover DSG's, Mechatronic Mod. Units, and clutch packs in writing BEFORE handing them your $$$$$$$$$.

[bcze1]

Quote, originally posted by jettaboydc »

WOW How much for the nissan GT-R trans, They are both made by the same company I know it is way diffrent but wowwww.

~$20k+labor, but the GT-R's is made by Ricardo, not BW.

[LWNY]

Quote, originally posted by bcze1 »

~$20k+labor, but the GT-R's is made by Ricardo, not BW.

I think you are wrong. The GT-R uses a BW unit. The GT-R GT1 race car has a different engine (5.6 V8) and a Ricardo transmission. Not sure why they still bother to call it a GT-R.

[bcze1]

"Of course, it all starts with the motor. An all-aluminum 3.8-liter V6 is matched with twin IHI turbochargers and tuned to deliver 480 hp. Attached to the new engine via a driveshaft built from carbon-fiber composite is a six-speed dual-clutch transaxle developed with behind-the-scenes assistance from Ricardo, which engineered the dual-clutch unit for the 1,001-hp Bugatti Veyron."

http://www.edmunds.com/insidel...30134

[LWNY]

So much misinformation out there.

Press release right out of BorgWarner's mouth:

http://www.2009gtr.com/2007/10....html

Edmunds is even contradicting itself with this article:

http://www.edmunds.com/insidel...24083

"At Tochigi, the assembly of the GT-R's rear suspension surprisingly gets nearly as much attention as the engine. It's done by a small group of technicians away from the main line, and the centerpiece of the process is the hand-assembled Borg-Warner transaxle. "

[bcze1]

Quote, originally posted by LWNY »

So much misinformation out there.

I guess so. Thanks for the correction.

[Checkered24]

As a prospective buyer, I have a couple questions. First, does anyone have a handle on how widespread the bad mechatronics problem is with the 09's? Also, any indication that it is related to certain VIN's or build dates?

Has there been any updates into NHTSA's findings?

[VWRedux]

Wow checkered24, if we had access to that kind of data... it would be great and very helpful!... but we don't, the Feds do! VWoA will be obligated to open all their repair records and the truth about the size and scope of this issue will be known sooner or later).

We've only been able to piece together, based on internet posts, NHTSA filings and other consumer agency reports that since late 2007, DSG malfunctions have progressively gotten worse... that high volume dealers are reporting high DSG repair numbers with about a 26% return record after service has been performed. (Thus far!) So rather than a gradual improvement with product refinement, it appears that over the last few years, VW's quality control over their DSG production has fallen into the toilet.

Words out that Mech. Units with part #'s starting with 000 are the latest to hit dealer service stations... but this cannot be completely confirmed, or if it makes any real difference. Remember that Mech.U.'s are NOT the only culprit here... there have been major issues with clutch forks, external relays and/or sensors, warped clutch packs, etc.... all kinds of BS. Some of us are on our 3rd MU and others are on full DSG replacements. Will these repairs last? Too early to tell but we're keeping our fingers crossed.

The worst hit cars appear to be the 08-09 models, EOS, GTI, R32, GLI, Wolfsburg Jetta's, and Audi A3's with DSG. What's the ratio? No one knows except VW. How long will these transmissions last?... How dependable is the design?... Are they safe and trustworthy?... Were DSG's ready for prime time play?... Again it's way too early in the game to be sure.

But if I could do it all over again, I'd buy a 6 speed MT hands down until they either improve the DSG design or replace it with a more dependable model.


Modified by VWRedux at 1:11 AM 8-9-2009

[Audi'sRevenge]

Quote, originally posted by jettaboydc »

Thanks I glad I have not did any mods to my car. Its just I dont understand how it cost that much. I mean its not like I have a GT-R or a F-430 lololol

Personally I never believed the cost of the DSG is what you get charged when you buy the car. The cost of DSG is no different than a torque-converter automatic really, which doesn't sound inline with an advanced transmisison like the DSG. Though I understand automatics are actually more complicated, they are also rooted in technology that's been around for ages whereas the DSG is relatively new, one of the newest trans types out there.

So my guess is the DSG is actually "subsidised" by increasing the price of other models, namely traditional manual trans models. I.e. 6MT owners are paying for the DSG too, without knowing it. Of course this is just my own speculation, but to me it makes sense just from dollars and cents--what the DSG costs to option on the car and then what it costs to replace. The Mechatronics unit costs more money than the entire trans option, lol. Sure when you option it they're also not giving you the manual trans so you have to "subtract" that, but I still don't think it adds up...

[badbadtdi2009]

Bonnie Gelfusa
Mediation/Arbitration VW
Phone: 248-754-3591
Fax: 248-754-6504
Bonnie.gelfusa@vw.com

Fax all the repair documentation to this number. Send an email with your contact info.
Tell them you will sue if nothing is done.

I'm reposting this for anyone that is having rotten luck with their DSG. This is a hard # to get...use it wisely.

[LWNY]

Quote, originally posted by Audi’sRevenge »

Personally I never believed the cost of the DSG is what you get charged when you buy the car. The cost of DSG is no different than a torque-converter automatic really, which doesn't sound inline with an advanced transmisison like the DSG. Though I understand automatics are actually more complicated, they are also rooted in technology that's been around for ages whereas the DSG is relatively new, one of the newest trans types out there. So my guess is the DSG is actually "subsidised" by increasing the price of other models, namely traditional manual trans models. I.e. 6MT owners are paying for the DSG too, without knowing it. Of course this is just my own speculation, but to me it makes sense just from dollars and cents--what the DSG costs to option on the car and then what it costs to replace. The Mechatronics unit costs more money than the entire trans option, lol. Sure when you option it they're also not giving you the manual trans so you have to "subtract" that, but I still don't think it adds up...

DSG is 2 3 speed manual transmissions (in one casing) plus a electro-mechanical unit that does the shifting for us. So in that sense, those 2 components adds to the cost. The multi-plate wet clutch probably a little more than a single plate dry clutch.

As for cost of a slushbox, it just have to push the gears around in the planetary gears, and does not have to disengage/engage any drive mechanism since the propeller/torque converter spins the whole time.

Its like the 2.0T could possibly cost more than the 3.2 given that a completely separate turbocharger/intercooler infrastructure has to exist that isn't there in the normally aspirate engine.

[Jetty!]

Quote, originally posted by billinct »

had the dreaded 65 mph loss of power and blinking PRND as well, and scared the snot out of me.

This same thing happened, but hasn't happened since then. Should i bring it in? I'm afraid of getting the "couldn't recreate issue" deal as well and just having a bunch of tech monkeys put hard miles on my car.

[badbadtdi2009]

Report this to the NHTSA..Your car is not safe to drive if it has the issues you stated. VW replaced my vehicle for the same issue you are having. Good Luck.

[Jetty!]

Where's the link to make the report about this issue?

[badbadtdi2009]

Go to page one of this thread...or you can call the NHTSA and they will take your account down...you will get a case evaluation #. It's important that you do this.

[VWRedux]

Here's a great page on the DSG tranny:

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/dsg_faq.htm

[1998993C2S]

Quote, originally posted by VWRedux »

Here's a great page on the DSG tranny: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/dsg_faq.htm

The author mentions my "VW settlement" regarding the DSG /cold/altitude defect. Hey,,, I've been published!! There are other Colorado'ins whom have settled with VWoA over this DSG defect too. I merely started the ball rolling as it were...

The DSG link is a well written piece,, if with a less than minor editorial componenet. IMHO.


Modified by 1998993C2S at 5:53 AM 8-11-2009

[Jetty!]

I filed a report today. Will they contact me about it?

[VWRedux]

Quote, originally posted by Jetty! »

I filed a report today. Will they contact me about it?

Thanks for doing so! Unless your complaint was very unique, or you had a severe brush with death, they probably won't call you...

Your report to NHTSA strengthens their resolve to get VW to issue a Safety Recall on ALL DSG's...

Every report counts.....

[LWNY]

Quote, originally posted by 1998993C2S »

The author mentions my "VW settlement" regarding the DSG /cold/altitude defect. Hey,,, I've been published!! There are other Colorado'ins whom have settled with VWoA over this DSG defect too. I merely started the ball rolling as it were... The DSG link is a well written piece,, if with a less than minor editorial componenet. IMHO. Modified by 1998993C2S at 5:53 AM 8-11-2009

At least the Canadian dealers knew well enough to install engine heaters. The US dealers should have thought of that.

[1998993C2S]

Quote, originally posted by LWNY »

At least the Canadian dealers knew well enough to install engine heaters. The US dealers should have thought of that.

Just think of the USA VW marketing disaster where the need, any need, of an aux engine heater with an 115v extension cord is a requirement when starting the car. A notion which is counter productive to the modern diesel message VW promotes.

Without the high altitude, lower compression result the cold DSGs drag on the starting sequence would be a non-issue. However, if you operate a 1.9 TDI w/DSG in these conditions don't be surprized when it does not start. VWAG knew of this "condition" right away ... it was VWoA which made every attempt to TALK their way out of "their responcibility".


Modified by 1998993C2S at 10:57 AM 8-11-2009

[LWNY]

Maybe VW saw the Prius demographics and thought the people in CO that would buy these diesels are the Aspen crowd, who has their own heated garage and indoor valet, not the guys in the mountains

[pleasecontactme]

Hi --

If you submitted the following complaint to NHTSA, would you please get in touch with me? My email address is pleasecontactme101@gmail.com. Thank you very much.

Make: VOLKSWAGEN
Model: JETTA

Year: 2009
Complaint Number: 10275801
Summary:
WHILE DRIVING IN THE FAST LANE AT APPROXIMATELY 75 MPH THE VEHICLE BEGAN TO ACT AS IF IT WERE IN NEUTRAL FAILING TO DELIVER ANY POWER TO THE WHEELS. I STRUGGLED TO GET OVER TO THE SHOULDER AND WAS NEARLY IN TWO ACCIDENTS AND I THINK I SCRUBBED ONE OF MY RIMS ON THE CURB, BUT DIDN'T NOTICE AT THE TIME SINCE I WAS FREAKED OUT. I THEN HAD TO STOP AND RESTART THE CAR TO GET IT TO DRIVE AGAIN. THIS WAS THE SIXTH TIME IN ABOUT A WEEK THAT WE HAD THE CAR ACT AS IF IT WERE IN NEUTRAL WHILE DRIVING ALONG. THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT POWER WAS NOT REGAINED SHORTLY AFTER LOSING POWER. THE FRUSTRATING THING IS THAT I HAD BROUGHT THE CAR TO THE DEALER EARLIER IN THE WEEK COMPLAINING THAT A SIMILAR INCIDENT HAD OCCURRED THE PREVIOUS WEEK WHERE I HAD LOST POWER TO THE WHEELS BUT THAT I HAD REGAINED IT AFTER 5-10 SECONDS. THEY SAID THEY COULD NOT DO ANYTHING BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T REPRODUCE THE PROBLEM WHEN THEY TEST DROVE THE CAR AND THAT NO "ERRORS" SHOWED UP IN THE COMPUTER HISTORY FOR THE VEHICLE. THEY BASICALLY SAID THAT SINCE THERE WERE NO BULLETINS PUT OUT BY VW THEY COULDN'T DO ANYTHING UNTIL THE ERROR OCCURRED AGAIN. THANKFULLY I WAS CARRYING MY VIDEO CAMERA IN THE CAR AND MY GIRLFRIEND RECORDED MUCH OF THE INCIDENT. I AM EMAILING THE DEALER TODAY AND WE'LL SEE WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY NOW. *TR

[bcze1]

sneaky, sneaky

[09JSWTDI]

I would just like to make a couple of comments. I have experienced the flashing PRNDS and DSG failure. This is an issue separate from any and all other issues which I do not have personal experience with. This particular defect appears to be due to a sensor which monitors the temperature of the fluid in the DSG. It is designed to shut off the transmission if it overheats. It is designed to do this and flash the PRNDS display. What appears to be happening is that some of these are malfunctioning and shutting off the transmission during normal operation, leading to complete loss of power at speed.
There are two issues here:
First, it is unclear why this is happening: improper installation, a bad batch, or random failure in all units. Regardless, until we know, if we ever do, this will be a ticking time bomb, in my opinion. It really is dramatic when it fails. I am not even sure that you can recover by completely shutting off the engine, as being able to put it into neutral depends on the DSG computer letting you do so. We were not able to do so. What happens is that not only do you lose power, but the engine braking can be severe enough that you decelerate abruptly.

Second, the transmission is designed this way. It says so in the manual. That is, if the sensor detects high temperature, or wrongly thinks it does, you won't get a warning, you will just lose power transmission. But you will see the PRNDS blinking as it does so.

Finally, I will make a facetious analogy, but I like it. I knew some guys who had crazy partners. You never knew what they might do or what kind of crazy fit they would throw, and you thought, man, how does he live with that kind of unpredictability? But if you ever asked them about it, they would tell you how great she was, and how much they loved her.

[splintz]

just got my 09 gti dsg back from dealer for same problems. they had it 5 days and could not reproduce the malfunction. after the tech contacted vw tech line they removed the mechatronics module and replaced temp/speed sensor for transmission and road tested vehicle for 15 miles. so far so good we will see if this is will stop the problem.

[jried]

Mine's getting worse and worse. I am now a member of the blinking PRNDS console indicator club:

Edit: Nevermind. Seems to be caused by a faulty Tiptronic switch under the shifter, not the mechatronics unit. Will report back if that's not the case.


Modified by jried at 7:08 PM 8-17-2009

[Jetty!]

WOW so FML today. Was in New Hampshire on weekend vacation, in Franconia Notch. Parked the car at Cannon mountain, went to start it up. Started it up, and the f*cking PRNDS was flashing on the dash. The light underneath "P" on the shifter area was flashing. The shifter would not move out of park!!! ***!! Check engine light came on! Then I turn it off and the key would not come out of the ignition. I figure out which fuse is the DSG fuse and pull it and put it back in hoping that might reset something. No, doesn't work.
I call VW Roadside, and of course it's sunday so NO dealerships are open, "we can't send a mechanic out to help you". The car has to be towed to a VW dealership. "Ok, well im on a trip and I need a rental car and I HAVE to be home tonight for work tommorow". "Well you have to do that through the dealership they open tommorow". "No can't do that". "Oh ok, call enterprise/hertz/etc".

Call around and NO ONE is open on Sunday, only the airport locations and they are too far from where the VW dealer in NH would be.

I f*cking start and restart this car repeatedly and the same thing happens.

Finally, after some grace of luck, I get the car into gear and say "F*CK it we're going home!". Didn't want to chance it getting stuck like that anywhere else so I had to cut my last day of vacation real short, all thanks to some BS DSG failure. Had to fill up with gas and left the car running just in case it got stuck in gear after turning it off again.

Drove home with the check engine light for the first time on this car .

I have an appt set up for sept 5th for 30k mile service, and to address the issue I had a few months ago where the PRNDS started flashing and stuck me in neutral at highway speeds, but never did that since then. But now I can't trust the car won't strand me somewhere...

[csc129]

wait...an '07 with flashing PRNDS?

good thing that new TSB only covers '09's with temp. sensors.

just take it to the dealer and they'll fix it (or scan it and call you a liar cause they "show no codes, can't reproduce") and you can go on your merry way, driving your trusty VW DSG vehicle to get you home...or across that busy intersection....mostly...