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    Thread: DSG/Mechatronic Failure Update

    1. 07-20-2009 01:36 PM #76
      VWRedux,
      I originally respected your effort to raise awareness of DSG problems. I even modified my signature so that people could more easily find where to file a complaint. But the more I read from you and other posters this looks like a witch hunt. I am going to withdraw from supporting this effort. That does not mean that I oppose it. I wish you the best of luck, I just don't want to be associated with this effort.
      Saaber2

    2. 07-20-2009 02:16 PM #77
      Quote, originally posted by VWRedux »
      A "smear" to me is deliberately spreading a lie. If exposing the truth before someone gets seriously injured is a "smear" to you, then I'm very sorry bcze1, you're wrong. The truth hurts sometimes.
      You sound like an intelligent guy but it appears to me that you're in denial about how bad (and dangerous) this DSG flaw really is. I strongly recommend finding someone near you who has a malfunctioning DSG and take it out for an all day spin... then you'll know what we're so concerned about.

      Come on a reporter like yourself should know that a smear campaign doesn't have to include lies, sensationalizing and exaggerating the truth is more than sufficient. You post something negative in pretty much every DSG related thread in any Vortex forum. You've made incorrect assumptions about the 7sp DSG boxes in an attempt to bolster your case. You've made multiple posts stating that someone's DSG WILL fail, its just a matter of time. You've used unverifiable 'facts' to make your case seem more alarming than it is on its own.
      Lets just look at your latest post that said 4 dealerships in your area have averaged 28 mechatronic failures per month. I don't buy it, not for a second, as it doesn't pass the common sense test. That's 112/mo or 1,344 annually in your area alone. VW doesn't even sell that many DSG equipped cars in the US in a month, likely not even 2 months. There aren't even 50k DSG equipped VW's in the entire US and you're telling us that over 2% of them live in your area and have failed mechu units? And why is it that my local dealer, one of the largest VW dealers in the US, had only seen a handful of failures as of a month ago?
      All that aside, I think you're misunderstanding my point. I don't doubt that when present this problem is severe and potentially dangerous. But I find it very hard to believe the problem is nearly as wide spread as you say. I haven't been able to find a bad one to test drive, because of the 8 or so DSG owners I know (R32 + GTI's) none of them have had a problem. Neither of the 2 I've owned have had a problem. And my DSG experience is every bit as valid as yours despite the fact mine is problem free.
      Again, I wish you success in having your car repaired and sincerely hope that no one is harmed in the event their mechu fails at a bad time. But to put it simply your methods of raising awareness stink.
      Quote, originally posted by badbadtdi2009 »
      I think you work for VW NA???Michigan or Northern VA???

      Nope, purchasing & distribution for a small restaurant chain in Denver, CO. I'm simply an informed consumer.

    3. Member VWRedux's Avatar
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      07-20-2009 02:42 PM #78
      I would check with your high volume dealerships.... especially those selling high numbers of DSG cars.... my dealership has cars stacked up waiting for Mech.U.'s. In fact, they're offering to tow the car back to your home during the waiting period. (It's also to divert shop time so as to limit their "Lemon Law" liability)
      VW has sold over a million DSG cars worldwide... of course the majority are doing fine... for now.. but compare the DSG with other designs which have had more than 70 years of refinement and you'll understand the jury is still out on the VW DSG! Besides, we're no longer talking about reliability here are we? We're talking about safety and possibly saving lives. Even if the actual number was 1%, that's a 1,000 people who would be at risk! That's one too many in my book. (The number is no doubt more than this though.)
      Back to longevity/reliability: Let's see where we are in another 5 years when the 1st generation wet clutch 6sp DSG cars really start to mature....
      You guys are giving me way too much credit here... the truth will be told sooner or later, with or withiut me, or you.
      Otherwise guys, if that's how you feel, then no problemo!


      Modified by VWRedux at 6:41 PM 7-20-2009
      "There's nothing like a well tuned car on an open road". Paul Newman
      *The New 2011 VW Jetta... At Least You Pay Less To Get Less!*

    4. Member dmorrow's Avatar
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      07-20-2009 06:59 PM #79
      Quote, originally posted by VWRedux »
      We're talking about safety and saving lives. Even if the actual number was 1%, that's a 1,000 people who would be at risk! (The number is no doubt more than this though.)

      When I read stuff like this it makes me laugh. This is probably the most common way to get people on board for any policy, safety item or new law even if the chances of it happening are tiny. If I followed what you were saying, not only would I worry about my transmission going out but also that I might die when it happens.
      Above you said "There are many, many near misses on public record" I am surprised, can you send me to these? You are throwing out numbers and "facts" that you can't show proof of, then when people tell you your numbers don't add up you move on. You might be right that news and TV can make any issue look extreme but I am completely against items like this that can't show numbers and statistics to back them up.
      You said "compare the DSG with other designs which have had more than 70 years of refinement and you'll understand the jury is still out on the VW DSG!". This I completely agree with. I had some reservations about buying a car with this transmission but did it anyway. Time will tell. I also wonder if they have direct injection perfected.
      Good luck with your transmission issue.

    5. 07-20-2009 07:59 PM #80
      VWRedux,
      I hate to heap on here, but I have to admit I concur with the last few posts pertaining to your recent hyper-activity on the DSG subforum. None of the below is a flame, so just relax.
      I currently have a DSG-equipped car that's waiting on a backordered MU to arrive, so I can certainly empathize with your basic cause. However, to say that you're depicting the situation as out of proportion, would be an understatement. The vortex is by far the largest VW internet forum in existence, and until you came along, we had, at most, a handful of post per day in this subforum. And they were nice, informative posts to add to the fray of our DSG issue. They really helped form a nice archive on the situation. It wasn't like reading half an issue of the National Enquirer, like it is now with you going all out in this subforum.
      FWIW- I'm on a smaller, regional VW forum with plenty of MkV DSG's running around. Until I introduced them to my issue, there had been no one with a similar problem since the start of that forum. We're talking about car guys/gearheads who are in tune to what is going on mechanically with their vehicles. A-retentive guys, not ignorant masses.
      In closing, I'll leave you with a tidbit I learned long ago when it comes to internet forum behavior- read more, post less.
      Take care.

    6. Member VWRedux's Avatar
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      07-20-2009 08:11 PM #81
      Near misses... spend a few days reading all of the DSG posts on vortex under the DSG forum... go back a few years as well... use the link to the NHTSA and punch up all the years and cars that were equipped with DSG's, look under "Complaint Summaries" and read them all.... Go to Youtube and do the same... Google DSG Problems, DSG Malfunctions, DSG Issues, DSG Failures etc etc.... Call your local dealerships and ask how many DSG/Mech.U. failures they have repaired..... etc.
      Must I go on... you guys wish me to have foot notes too I'd bet?... You all with happy cars simply don't get it.... you'll never get it until you're on the road and your car simply goes kaput, maybe as you're climbing a steep hill... with many cars and 18 wheelers on your tail, you hit the gas, the engine revs up freely to red line but the drive wheels have no power... no control... kill the messengers is all you know how to do... that's fine... but worthless... we have the truth on our side.
      Take care.
      "There's nothing like a well tuned car on an open road". Paul Newman
      *The New 2011 VW Jetta... At Least You Pay Less To Get Less!*

    7. Member VWRedux's Avatar
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      07-20-2009 08:15 PM #82
      "In closing, I'll leave you with a tidbit I learned long ago when it comes to internet forum behavior- read more, post less."
      Thanks... I'll take it under advisement.
      "There's nothing like a well tuned car on an open road". Paul Newman
      *The New 2011 VW Jetta... At Least You Pay Less To Get Less!*

    8. Member VWRedux's Avatar
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      Started NHTSA DSG Campaign/'09WolfieDSG died@623mi. VW took it back.Bought MkVI/GTI Blk 6spMT/SR/Xen
      07-21-2009 01:24 AM #83
      11 page TDI thread on DSG Failures from 2006: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=147504
      15 pages of Audi DSG failures from 2007: http://www.tt-forum.co.uk/foru...t=100
      And check out this poor fellow's close call story from 2007: http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/f...16053
      DSG Let Down Test: http://www.cincitdi.com/not-ev...ssion
      I guess if you search for something, you will find it, and these links represent just a fraction of what's really out there on Google. This DSG thing appears to have been years in the making. Why hasn't VW done more to improve the failure rate all these years? It's VW's little dark secret isn't it?
      Man... I never saw so much negative bs about a single type transmission in my all my 55 years of working on cars!
      And I thought my Nissan's CVT had issues... compared to this, it's a gem!


      Modified by VWRedux at 1:31 AM 7-21-2009
      "There's nothing like a well tuned car on an open road". Paul Newman
      *The New 2011 VW Jetta... At Least You Pay Less To Get Less!*

    9. 07-21-2009 12:39 PM #84
      Note: I know very little about cars, I have no idea what a Mechatronic unit is but here is my issue.
      - Had an oil leak 6 months back, Audi said they fixed it.
      - Had occasional leaks after.
      - Occasionally going around corners at 15-20 mph would get a "jerk" in power coming out of the corner when putting on the gas.
      - Last week had the blinking PRDNS while going 70+.
      - Had flashing engine icon the next morning.
      - Took into the dealer - told me it's leaking not oil but transmission fluid.
      - Audi road tested my car for another day, determined that the whole transmission needs to be replaced (under warranty).
      - Now waiting for the transmission to arrive and be installed.
      - Good news, gave me a S4 loaner, bad news it smells like an ashtray inside.

      At only 37,000 miles I will be putting my complaint in too with the NHTSA.
      I'll post any more info when I get my full paperwork from the dealer.

    10. 07-21-2009 01:08 PM #85
      ODI HAS RECEIVED 12 VEHICLE OWNER COMPLAINTS (VOQ'S) ALLEGING INCIDENTS OF LOSS OF MOTIVE POWER WHILE DRIVING DUE TO A MALFUNCTION OF THE DIRECT SHIFT GEARBOX (DSG) TRANSMISSION USED IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES. IN MOST INCIDENTS, THE DSG MALFUNCTION EITHER SPONTANEOUSLY SELF-CORRECTED OR WAS TEMPORARILY CORRECTED AFTER THE ENGINE WAS STOPPED AND RESTARTED. THREE COMPLAINTS INDICATE THAT THE VEHICLE HAD TO BE TOWED. IN ADDITION, ODI HAS RECEIVED 15 COMPLAINTS ALLEGING SAFETY CONCERNS WITH HARSH SHIFTING EITHER DURING LOW SPEED PARKING MANEUVERS, WHILE ACCELERATING FROM A STOP OR DURING UPSHIFTS/DOWNSHIFTS AT SPEED. A PRELIMINARY EVALUATION HAS BEEN OPENED TO ASSESS THE FREQUENCY AND SAFETY CONSEQUENCES OF THE DSG TRANSMISSION MALFUNCTIONS.


    11. Member VWRedux's Avatar
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      07-21-2009 01:14 PM #87
      Sorry to hear this has happened to your car pokipoki, but happily nothing severe occurred when it happened. You did the right thing and a new DSG tranny will hopefully make your car as good as new.
      Please file that NHTSA report as soon as possible while the facts are still fresh in your memory. Remember to include what happened on the highway in your report.
      Good luck
      "There's nothing like a well tuned car on an open road". Paul Newman
      *The New 2011 VW Jetta... At Least You Pay Less To Get Less!*

    12. Member VWRedux's Avatar
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      07-21-2009 01:28 PM #88
      BadBadtdi posted: http://nhthqnwws112.odi.nhtsa....1.pdf
      ______________________________________
      Hey Badbadtdi and all.... we did it! [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] to all who have recently filed their NHTSA reports.... thank you!
      Please, even though the NHTSA has officially opened an investigation, that doesn't mean you shouldn't file anymore. If indeed you have experienced a DSG failure of some kind, please file your report ASAP. The link is at the top of this thread... thanks!
      Now let's see how VW handles it... if they truly wish to gain back our respect, they'll do the right thing and issue a comprehensive Safety Recall on all DSG equipped vehicles. The problem for them, (besides the bad PR it will generate and the possible loss of sales) will be what would be the best and most effective corrective action plan to initiate?



      Modified by VWRedux at 1:45 PM 7-21-2009
      "There's nothing like a well tuned car on an open road". Paul Newman
      *The New 2011 VW Jetta... At Least You Pay Less To Get Less!*

    13. Member krazyboi's Avatar
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      07-21-2009 01:34 PM #89
      Quote, originally posted by badbadtdi2009 »
      http://nhthqnwws112.odi.nhtsa....1.pdf

      That's great, but I hope they also cover the other vehicles that use the DSG as well.
      722 pages, 25255 posts, and 1,015,739 views later... R.I.P. LoL Bump thread 03/27/2008 ~ 02/16/2011.
      Link to my build: Audi A3 3.2 VR6 BT
      CleanAudi.com feature

    14. 07-21-2009 01:46 PM #90
      WHILE DRIVING AT APPROXIMATELY 65 MPH ON I-95, CAR DISENGAGED FROM TRANSMISSION. ENGINE REVVED, BUT SLOWED DOWN. AT APPROXIMATELY 45 MPH, TRANSMISSION RE-ENGAGED. AT SAME TIME, CENTER DISPLAY FLICKERED AND BEGAN INDICATING ALL DRIVE MODES. ON JULY 10, 2009, WHILE STOPPED AT AN INTERSECTION, THE SAME THING HAPPENED. WHEN I PRESSED THE ACCELERATOR, THE ENGINE REVVED, BUT TRANSMISSION DIDN'T ENGAGE, AND WOULDN'T ENGAGE, UNTIL I RESTARTED THE CAR. AS THE INTERSECTION WAS ON A SLIGHT DOWNGRADE, THIS LEFT ME IN THE MIDDLE OF THE INTERSECTION, UNTIL I WAS ABLE TO RESTART THE VEHICLE. *TR
      from
      http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/c...ype=1


    15. 07-21-2009 02:16 PM #92
      "Why Ike..whatever do you mean?" "I'm your huckelberry."
      Maybe poker isn't your game...or the dsg forum.

    16. 07-21-2009 02:26 PM #93
      Quote, originally posted by badbadtdi2009 »
      "Why Ike..whatever do you mean?" "I'm your huckelberry."
      Maybe poker isn't your game...or the dsg forum.

      Hah, its like I'm playing cards with my bother's kids.
      Regardless I'll restate my point because you seem to be avoiding it...Its not that I doubt the problem can be severe and possibly dangerous. I simply do not think its as widespread as some have made it out to be.

    17. Member VWRedux's Avatar
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      07-21-2009 03:10 PM #94
      Quote, originally posted by bcze1 »
      I simply do not think its as widespread as some have made it out to be.

      You said you "think" so? So are you admitting you're no better than us on the other side of this issue? You and others have asked us for proof to substantiate our claims... we have provided many links, some dating back 3 or more years... but where's your proof supporting your opinion or claim? What are you basing your "think"ing on... huh, old wise one?
      In the medical world, doctors are encouraged to file an AERS, or Adverse Drug Event with the FDA if they observe any issues, especially with new drugs. (ie COX-2 drugs like Bextra, Celebrex, etc) But a Harvard study found that less than 1% ever do and the FDA admits that for every AERS they receive, thousands more come to light only after they initiate a review.
      I believe the same must apply here.


      Modified by VWRedux at 3:45 PM 7-21-2009
      "There's nothing like a well tuned car on an open road". Paul Newman
      *The New 2011 VW Jetta... At Least You Pay Less To Get Less!*

    18. Member VWRedux's Avatar
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      07-21-2009 03:35 PM #95
      Check out this R32's DSG story and what VW discovered!
      http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/...94482
      "There's nothing like a well tuned car on an open road". Paul Newman
      *The New 2011 VW Jetta... At Least You Pay Less To Get Less!*

    19. 07-21-2009 03:43 PM #96
      Quote, originally posted by VWRedux »
      You said you "think" so? So are you admitting you're no better than us on the other side of this issue? You and others have asked us for proof to substantiate our claims... we have provided many links, some dating back 3 or more years... but where's your proof supporting your opinion or claim? What are you basing your "think"ing on... huh, old wise one?

      Must you be so patronizing?
      I'm basing my opinion on personal experience with this gearbox, some background in QC, and knowledge of the 'big picture'. To keep things simple, lets look at it like this...To date VW & BW have produced nearly 1.5 million DSG's. You'd have to provide 15,000 links to prove that even 1% of DSG's and/or Mechu units have failed. How do YOU substantiate your claim that this issue is as widespread as you say?

    20. Member VWRedux's Avatar
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      07-21-2009 04:11 PM #97
      Quote, originally posted by bcze1 »
      Must you be so patronizing?
      I'm basing my opinion on personal experience with this gearbox, some background in QC, and knowledge of the 'big picture'. To keep things simple, lets look at it like this...To date VW & BW have produced nearly 1.5 million DSG's. You'd have to provide 15,000 links to prove that even 1% of DSG's and/or Mechu units have failed. How do YOU substantiate your claim that this issue is as widespread as you say?

      Show me the beef or keep silent for awhile, please... it's embarrassing.
      1.5 Million DSG's? Show me the data link where you got this false number. I believe you are the one now exaggerating. And yes, I've posted many times that the large majority of DSG's must be working fine... (hopefully for now!). Can you say the same about what we may believe?... probably not... sad.
      But based on the law of averages, and based on the written testimonies of many DSG owners found on-line all over the world and recently with the Federal Gov., most people probably don't even realize if their DSG is working fine or not. It's not necessary to have the Flash-of-Death or the tranny completely stop working in order to have a malfunctioning DSG. Most are probably not even aware of it.
      I'll bet you... when this DSG story hits the media with a full explanation of the issues and a list of the malfunctioning symptoms, (most likely since the NHTSA has officially launched an investigation into the '08-'09 VW DSG), every DSG owner will now recognize their DSG issue and will come forward with their cars... I strongly feel it will be in large numbers too. (The NHTSA claims over 50,000 units produced may be affected, that's nearly 5%! A large number of people who may be at risk... I'd say!) But only then shall we see who has a better feel for the unpredictable.
      Until then..... have a nice day.


      Modified by VWRedux at 4:26 PM 7-21-2009
      "There's nothing like a well tuned car on an open road". Paul Newman
      *The New 2011 VW Jetta... At Least You Pay Less To Get Less!*

    21. 07-21-2009 05:10 PM #98
      Quote, originally posted by VWRedux »
      Show me the beef or keep silent for awhile, please... it's embarrassing.


      Quote, originally posted by VWRedux »
      1.5 Million DSG's? Show me the data link where you got this false number. I believe you are the one now exaggerating. And yes, I've posted many times that the large majority of DSG's must be working fine... (hopefully for now!). Can you say the same about what we may believe?... probably not... sad.

      As of Jan '08 VW had sold over a million DSG's worldwide, with over 360,000 of those in 2008 alone. From that data one can easily extrapolate that over 1.5million have been sold to date, especially as it has made its way into more and more models since.
      http://www.volkswagengroupamer...G.htm
      Quote, originally posted by VWRedux »
      I'll bet you... when this DSG story hits the media with a full explanation of the issues and a list of the malfunctioning symptoms, (most likely since the NHTSA has officially launched an investigation into the '08-'09 VW DSG), every DSG owner will now recognize their DSG issue and will come forward with their cars... I strongly feel it will be in large numbers too. (The NHTSA claims over 50,000 units produced may be affected, that's nearly 5%! A large number of people who may be at risk... I'd say!) But only then shall we see who has a better feel for the unpredictable.

      I love your spin! People don't know their car isn't working right until the media tells them so.
      BTW, the NHTSA claim affects 50k cars because that's all that have been sold in the USA. The NHTSA doesn't care about the other 1.45mil+ sold in ROW.

      Quote, originally posted by VWRedux »
      Until then..... have a nice day.


    22. 07-21-2009 05:45 PM #99
      50,000 units..not widespread...what a joke.

    23. 07-21-2009 05:52 PM #100
      Quote, originally posted by badbadtdi2009 »
      50,000 units..not widespread...what a joke.

      I see you're new to QC analysis. The 50k listed on the NHTSA report is the total population of DSG equipped cars in the USA. It does not specify if 5, 5,000 or all 50,000 may or may not be affected with a problem.


      Modified by bcze1 at 3:55 PM 7-21-2009

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