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    Thread: Cleaning intake valves deposits

    1. 08-05-2009 11:17 AM #1
      Asked a friend at a Lexus dealer what they usedon their DI engines. He said Seafoam through a vacuum line and a borescope to check the areas.

    2. 08-05-2009 11:20 AM #2
      My dealer told me that VW has contracted with BG to use there equipment. You can get the single or double dose, but neither will take care of the level of crud I had at 100k miles, but I will probably do that at 125K miles..too much of a pain to remove the intake.

    3. 08-05-2009 11:52 AM #3
      Did mine for the second time and in just 5000 miles, the valves were again slightly coated with burned oil.

      I highly doubt there is ANY way other than physically removing the intake manifold every x amount of miles to scrub the valves, that will take care of the problem, even in the slightest way.....

      Sorry.....


    4. 08-05-2009 02:21 PM #4
      IIRC you didn't have any engine problems until you got to 100,000. I'll be there in another 8 years so a clean up every 10 years won't be too bad.

    5. 08-05-2009 02:25 PM #5
      Quote, originally posted by vweosdriver »
      IIRC you didn't have any engine problems until you got to 100,000. I'll be there in another 8 years so a clean up every 10 years won't be too bad.

      When after cleaning you can actually FEEL the difference in how the engine is working,
      you KNOW, you have to do it in less than 100,000....
      Even if you think you have zero issues...


    6. Member Krieger's Avatar
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      08-05-2009 03:04 PM #6
      i think seafoaming does something for us. My car was bought at 58k miles, and i have seafoamed it like 10 times now. im at 61,200 and my idle is PERFECT, other than my stock PCV hiccup, and she seems to pull way better without those weird instances of a "missfire" feel.
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    7. 08-05-2009 03:10 PM #7
      Quote, originally posted by Krieger »
      i think seafoaming does something for us. My car was bought at 58k miles, and i have seafoamed it like 10 times now. im at 61,200 and my idle is PERFECT, other than my stock PCV hiccup, and she seems to pull way better without those weird instances of a "missfire" feel.

      Think of it this way..

      When you spray carb spray DIRECTLY at the valves, and all the deposited crap doesn't
      even break a sweat, you KNOW seafoam is just gonna tickle it...

      I used a light scrubbing pad to get things moving....


    8. Member rickjaguar's Avatar
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      08-05-2009 03:54 PM #8
      All of this talk has me thinking about my engines' condition. I bought mine with 26000km and it got Castrol until 34000km.. I'm sure there's some gunk in there. Now I'm running a much better oil (LubroMoly) and at 41000km I wonder about the valves and the cam followers' condition.
      My understanding of these additives/or cleaning mixtures is that their effectiveness is superficial at best. To really de-gunk you're gonna have to open'r up an scrub. Since I'm not a mechanic I wonder how much this would cost?

    9. 08-05-2009 04:20 PM #9
      Quote, originally posted by vweosdriver »
      IIRC you didn't have any engine problems until you got to 100,000. I'll be there in another 8 years so a clean up every 10 years won't be too bad.

      no, I had misfires with CEL as far back as 60k miles.


    10. Member Krieger's Avatar
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      08-05-2009 04:45 PM #10
      i was quoted 250 by a local company that is very trusted.
      2006 Audi A3 | 2.0T | 6MT | APR Stage 2+ | Fully loaded ECU | FK grill | EJ CAI | BSH TBP |EJ DV Reloc. | Eurojet TBE | EuroJet Catch Tank | Cross drilled and Slotted Rotors | EBC "Redstuff" Kevlar | Raceland Coilovers | Forge Side to Side Short Shifter | Forge Front to Back Short Shifter | Devil's Own DVC-30 Methanol injection | BSH RSB | BSH Motor mount Kit | 42 DD Shifter Bushings | HPFP Stage 1 upgrade |

    11. 08-05-2009 04:53 PM #11
      Manifold removal is one thing, spending time and being
      patient with the cleaning is another....

      It took me more than 3 hours of cleaning to get the valves "almost" clean the first time, and about half that to make them shine the second time, just after 5000 miles.

      I highly doubt ANY shop is gonna "waste time" to hand clean/scrub your valves.....

      Unfortunately....this is a VERY HIGH maintenance car.....


    12. Member rickjaguar's Avatar
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      08-05-2009 06:14 PM #12
      .
      Quote, originally posted by GolfRS »

      I highly doubt ANY shop is gonna "waste time" to hand clean/scrub your valves.....

      Unfortunately....this is a VERY HIGH maintenance car.....


      hahaha... i think you're right.

    13. 08-05-2009 06:56 PM #13
      Golf RS speaks the truth.

      unless a chemical is misted PRE TB while running ever 10-15K FROM NEW...........using seafoam via basketball needle is like throwing handfulls of rice at the wall of china to take it down.

      BMW is having big problems with the 335, 135, 760 DI engines as well. I was talking with a BMW high up rep the other day and he went on to say..................."even the BMW induction chemicals misted pre TB will do little to nothing when DI motors have 50K". They are pulling intake manifolds and scrubbing until blue in the face. He also went on to say bmw is going to start suggesting 15K induction services from new on all DI cars.

      the induction "chemical" they will be using.........................drum roll............................walnut shells!!!!!!!!!

      They are also looking into a CATCH CAN SETUP!!!


    14. Member Krieger's Avatar
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      08-05-2009 07:06 PM #14
      walnut shells? lol, hmm... okie dokie.

      2006 Audi A3 | 2.0T | 6MT | APR Stage 2+ | Fully loaded ECU | FK grill | EJ CAI | BSH TBP |EJ DV Reloc. | Eurojet TBE | EuroJet Catch Tank | Cross drilled and Slotted Rotors | EBC "Redstuff" Kevlar | Raceland Coilovers | Forge Side to Side Short Shifter | Forge Front to Back Short Shifter | Devil's Own DVC-30 Methanol injection | BSH RSB | BSH Motor mount Kit | 42 DD Shifter Bushings | HPFP Stage 1 upgrade |

    15. 08-05-2009 07:14 PM #15
      Quote, originally posted by Krieger »
      walnut shells? lol, hmm... okie dokie.


      They have been using walnut shells to clean carbon since be4 I was born. Its a great blasting media!


    16. 08-05-2009 07:20 PM #16
      how would u clean an auto trans...same concept as pushing the car forward in a manual?

    17. 08-05-2009 07:39 PM #17
      I think for the transmission you just drain the fluid, put in 1 pound of unshelled walnuts and then drive it around...

      No seriously though, the "walnut gun" technique is commonly used, like rabidrabbit said.


    18. 08-05-2009 11:13 PM #18
      i believe you have to rotate the crank manually on DSG

    19. 08-05-2009 11:20 PM #19
      i dont have dsg

    20. Member Krieger's Avatar
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      08-06-2009 02:31 AM #20
      so... u just ground of shells and shoot them at the valves? that doesnt sound to... sane...

      do they get burned off or do u close the valves off before? and if u close em... wouldnt u need to stop all the time to vacuum it all out every few seconds?

      2006 Audi A3 | 2.0T | 6MT | APR Stage 2+ | Fully loaded ECU | FK grill | EJ CAI | BSH TBP |EJ DV Reloc. | Eurojet TBE | EuroJet Catch Tank | Cross drilled and Slotted Rotors | EBC "Redstuff" Kevlar | Raceland Coilovers | Forge Side to Side Short Shifter | Forge Front to Back Short Shifter | Devil's Own DVC-30 Methanol injection | BSH RSB | BSH Motor mount Kit | 42 DD Shifter Bushings | HPFP Stage 1 upgrade |

    21. Member jhines_06gli's Avatar
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      08-06-2009 07:31 PM #21
      The blasting has been used for YEARS! But again, it's kinda messy. The key to the FSI engine is to keep it clean once it's clean. Yes, this is a lot of work, but once you have taken dozens of these intakes off, it's not too bad.

      At the dealer, I am seeing A LOT more of these.....as far as VW, the corporate guys have been blaming this on fuel quality(B.S.) for the longest time, but here lately I have actually gotten a few to follow my thought process. The "Gunk" is not so much carbon as it is just oily deposits. The catch-can setup do help quite a bit, but still......as GolfRS said, these are HIGH MAINTANENCE engines!!!

      I am gonna experiment with my GLI and see what happens. I'm gonna pull the intake and get the valves spotless and see what goes on. I use SeaFoam every 10K right now, but think I'm gonna make it every oil change from now on. Also have been using the BSH stg. II catch-can since it's release.

      -J. Hines

      Good luck guys, if you don't already know........you better learn all there is to know about you FSI engines and save some $$$$ on repairs outside warr.

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    22. 08-06-2009 08:49 PM #22
      Quote, originally posted by Krieger »
      so... u just ground of shells and shoot them at the valves? that doesnt sound to... sane...

      do they get burned off or do u close the valves off before? and if u close em... wouldnt u need to stop all the time to vacuum it all out every few seconds?

      you want the valves closed. the residual media will get burnt off via combustion......its one of the main reason this blasting media is used for this application. Depends on the machine used as to how it functions. Its not really something the average DIY could do without the machine.

      On the other hand I have heard of a sabatoge case where 1 tech dumped TONS of the media into the intake to try to get another tech fired and it did ruin the engine.


    23. Member rickjaguar's Avatar
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      08-06-2009 09:11 PM #23
      I'd like to see someone post a step by step of this.

    24. Member Krieger's Avatar
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      08-07-2009 06:41 AM #24
      Quote, originally posted by RABIDRABBIT1983 »

      you want the valves closed. the residual media will get burnt off via combustion......its one of the main reason this blasting media is used for this application. Depends on the machine used as to how it functions. Its not really something the average DIY could do without the machine.

      very interesting stuff.

      i wonder what else u can blast in there without too many problems... like maybe something that would be combustible, but remain a solid till super high heat. something u could suck into the manifold. i doubt it exists, but it would be cool to be able to use something like that and save a ton of time by not removing the manifold and scrubbing everything.

      2006 Audi A3 | 2.0T | 6MT | APR Stage 2+ | Fully loaded ECU | FK grill | EJ CAI | BSH TBP |EJ DV Reloc. | Eurojet TBE | EuroJet Catch Tank | Cross drilled and Slotted Rotors | EBC "Redstuff" Kevlar | Raceland Coilovers | Forge Side to Side Short Shifter | Forge Front to Back Short Shifter | Devil's Own DVC-30 Methanol injection | BSH RSB | BSH Motor mount Kit | 42 DD Shifter Bushings | HPFP Stage 1 upgrade |

    25. Member jhines_06gli's Avatar
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      08-19-2009 09:15 PM #25
      Here's mine at 93K miles.......HARD driving, almost all highway. Have BSH STG. II catch-can since 60K and SeaFoam every 10K, still get build-up

      And here is after a cleaning with brake clean, small pick, small pocket screwdriver and a vacuum evacuator. Took about 40 minutes per cylinder, but now they are spoless.....cleaned a little more after these pics, but now will incorporate pulling intake to clean valves into my 20K service for my car

      I'm a tech for VW, but all-in-all, takes about 30 minuets to take intake manifold off, so not too bad considering you get a better driving car after. We usually see less timing pull and better overall performance INSTANTLY after doing this!! Also, this crap builds up on the tips of the injectors causing a non-uniform spray pattern

      Hope this helps you guys a little........
      -J. Hines

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    26. Member jhines_06gli's Avatar
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      08-19-2009 09:18 PM #26
      And here's the last customer's car that I did........75K miles of city driving by a young lady. Never drove car hard or anything, so NOT GOOD for 2.0T, not what it was designed for. But hurts to even look at this..........took FOREVER to clean, but car felt 300% better when done and she was astonished!!!

      Most noticebale difference IMO, is the oil condensation that is collected in her intake track compared to in mine. The catch-can is obviously doing it's job by taking vapors out, but I am still contemplating make it vent to atmosphere instead of going back into my PCV and through the turbo again. Reading mixed reviews right now....
      -J. Hines


      Modified by jhines_06gli at 9:20 PM 8-19-2009

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      08-19-2009 09:43 PM #27
      Wonder what the long term OEM solution will be for our direct-injection problem?

    28. Member jhines_06gli's Avatar
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      08-19-2009 09:54 PM #28
      BMW is having the same issues with DI engines, but they are taking action. They are in process for developing a "blasting" tool to basically walnut blast the valves, but also have development of an OEM production catch-can setup to help with vapors. That's all what I hear rumored from some friends I have at the BMW store, but seems like something HAS to be done. A lot more cars are going DI now and this is the effect?? Doesn't seem to good for the market, especially not the turbo cars seeing as airflow is EVERYTHING!!!!
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      08-19-2009 10:05 PM #29
      From your experience at the shop how are the engines doing that run a w/m setup, any better?

    30. Member Krieger's Avatar
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      08-19-2009 10:11 PM #30
      hmmm... thats pretty ****ing scary...

      im thinking most of that is from the 60k miles u already had caked on there since the deposits are all dry.

      anyone ever think of adding a source of vacuum to a can that would normally vent to atmosphere? and by this i mean maybe an electronically controlled vacuum source that applies a small but sustained source of vacuum?

      im wondering also what VW and everyone else is gonna do when ALL their cars keep coming back with crazy build up and the owners discover that this engine was pretty much made for sludge and build up and nobody did anything to really help solve it until it's too late.

      2006 Audi A3 | 2.0T | 6MT | APR Stage 2+ | Fully loaded ECU | FK grill | EJ CAI | BSH TBP |EJ DV Reloc. | Eurojet TBE | EuroJet Catch Tank | Cross drilled and Slotted Rotors | EBC "Redstuff" Kevlar | Raceland Coilovers | Forge Side to Side Short Shifter | Forge Front to Back Short Shifter | Devil's Own DVC-30 Methanol injection | BSH RSB | BSH Motor mount Kit | 42 DD Shifter Bushings | HPFP Stage 1 upgrade |

    31. Member jhines_06gli's Avatar
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      08-19-2009 10:32 PM #31
      As far as water-meth, I work for the VW dealership......from VW rep's perspective, they look for any and every reason to void a warranty and make the customer pay, so I am yet to see a water-meth setup. I have a feeling I will be the first in my area on the FSI.....lol. Basically all the locals are simple bolt-ons and flashes. I am gonna keep log of everything from here out since I have a clean slate. But I am seriously thinking of blocking off the port on the back of the valve cover that pushes back into the turbo inlet and venting that or something. I think that is the ONLY place I am still getting oil recirculated through the least bit. I have the EJ DV relocate kit and the pipe at the turbo where DV recirculates still has a small oil vapor coating on the inside, but not bad.........still, the less oil the better IMO.

      But I'm still working on some things and I know there are plenty of others out there like me that constantly monitor these things and ar constantly looking for better ways to do things, so there will be a 100% fix for this, but when?
      -J. Hines

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    32. 08-19-2009 10:34 PM #32
      Quote, originally posted by Krieger »
      hmmm... thats pretty ****ing scary...

      im thinking most of that is from the 60k miles u already had caked on there since the deposits are all dry.

      anyone ever think of adding a source of vacuum to a can that would normally vent to atmosphere? and by this i mean maybe an electronically controlled vacuum source that applies a small but sustained source of vacuum?

      im wondering also what VW and everyone else is gonna do when ALL their cars keep coming back with crazy build up and the owners discover that this engine was pretty much made for sludge and build up and nobody did anything to really help solve it until it's too late.

      VW is going to hit you up $150 min for BG service. use your $10 owner loyalty coupon


    33. Member Krieger's Avatar
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      08-19-2009 10:39 PM #33
      well, if u just plug up the rear port, and have a vented front PCV, i think that would be best. I mean, if all the gases and oil only have 1 way to go, and the pressure is lower in the can, it will go into the can, and then into the atmosphere.
      2006 Audi A3 | 2.0T | 6MT | APR Stage 2+ | Fully loaded ECU | FK grill | EJ CAI | BSH TBP |EJ DV Reloc. | Eurojet TBE | EuroJet Catch Tank | Cross drilled and Slotted Rotors | EBC "Redstuff" Kevlar | Raceland Coilovers | Forge Side to Side Short Shifter | Forge Front to Back Short Shifter | Devil's Own DVC-30 Methanol injection | BSH RSB | BSH Motor mount Kit | 42 DD Shifter Bushings | HPFP Stage 1 upgrade |

    34. 08-19-2009 11:37 PM #34
      guys you make me crazy ! I think I will inspect those valve tomorrow !

      For your information there's a better way to cleaning those valves manually. I think some specialised shops offer some kind of ultrawave cleaning technology or chemical cleaning of the valve with a recirculating machine plugged into the intake manifold or injectors of the car ! I already saw this somewhere and one garage did that on my last car with perfect results.

      not too costly, something like 50-60 bucks.

      You can also use gaz additives recommended by bosch or switch to AMSOIL OIL that will never get into vapor !!! The oil will save you lot of maintenance cost.


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      08-20-2009 07:56 AM #35
      Ask around at your shop if you get a chance about how our EGR setup works on our engines, I've never had a definitive answer from anyone regarding that question. It has something to do with valve overlap were dirty exhaust gasses, for a short period of time, end up back in the intake manifold, wonder how much this also contributes to our carbon build up in addition to the PCV re-circ.

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