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    Thread: The 010 Lost Knowledge Thread

    1. Member A2TDI's Avatar
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      10-16-2011 12:22 PM #596
      in this video is myself in the red jetta and rabbit6 in the gray rabbit drag racing...yes Rabbit6 still live in china! He was here on a thanksgiving vacation to see his family!

      Enjoy

      http://www.youtube.com/user/6tibbar#p/u/4/yfD5OaFFZXU
      90 4 dr jetta 2L 20V PTE 6262 at 30 psi 10.95 @ 135 mph 2250lbs (94 octane pump gas street car)

    2. Member wantacad's Avatar
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      10-16-2011 12:28 PM #597
      Nice..
      Quote Originally Posted by WackyWabbitRacer View Post
      You're new here but don't be a DORK.....
      Cheers, WWR.
      Quote Originally Posted by rte7x9 View Post
      Don't swap if you can't weld or fabricate. It's not a trivial task just to bolt everything up. There's a lot of nut-scratching involved. Take your time and do it right.

    3. Member Noodleboy's Avatar
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      10-19-2011 07:56 PM #598
      Stupid question. But will an 010 fit/bolt to a 16v 2.0 block??
      Quote Originally Posted by TheBurninator View Post
      I believe what you really learned is... bring lube next time you start a fight in the corrado forum

    4. Member wantacad's Avatar
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      10-19-2011 08:25 PM #599
      Quote Originally Posted by Noodleboy View Post
      Stupid question. But will an 010 fit/bolt to a 16v 2.0 block??
      bolts up just fine
      Quote Originally Posted by WackyWabbitRacer View Post
      You're new here but don't be a DORK.....
      Cheers, WWR.
      Quote Originally Posted by rte7x9 View Post
      Don't swap if you can't weld or fabricate. It's not a trivial task just to bolt everything up. There's a lot of nut-scratching involved. Take your time and do it right.

    5. Member Noodleboy's Avatar
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      10-19-2011 08:43 PM #600
      Sweet. I really want to do a 16v on r1 carbs.
      Quote Originally Posted by TheBurninator View Post
      I believe what you really learned is... bring lube next time you start a fight in the corrado forum

    6. Member oneunder's Avatar
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      10-24-2011 03:22 PM #601
      I have a question regarding stall converters.

      Currently, I have an 89 Cabby with the stock CIS management. Over the winter I plan on putting the 2.0l aba bottom end in the car, and keeping the the CIS (with a retro fitted knock box setup). While I was doing that, getting the head machine, and putting in a cam was on the list. Possibly a 270.

      Would that be to much for the stock converter?

      I am a real newb with the auto technicalities and philosophy.

      Thanks, you guys are awesome.
      "Those two piece splits are as close to fakes splits as real splits get"

    7. Member B4S's Avatar
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      10-24-2011 03:42 PM #602
      Think of the converter like a fluid clutch, basically. As the RPMs rise from idle, and the converter spins faster, the ATF is compressed against the inner/outer vanes inside the converter. The fluid eventually reaches the point where further compression is impossible, and the energy is transferred to the drive wheels. This duration of compression is called the 'stall' of the converter. The stock stall is ~2200-2500 rpm, so you can sit with a foot on the brake and the other foot with the gas pedal to the floor, and the car will rev at the stall speed (and you'll feel it pushing against the brake) until you release the brakes.

      Long explanation for a simple question, but it's important to know how the converter works in order to answer the question simply . Since there are no friction areas in the converter (like a traditional clutch/pp/flywheel), there's nothing to break (although it is possible, it will take a LOT more torque than a VW engine can produce ).

      So, finally, the answer, lol:
      The converter will be perfectly fine. If the tranny starts to slip or misbehave, you can be certain it's not converter related .
      Fick Deps?, Get Deb!

    8. Member oneunder's Avatar
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      10-24-2011 03:58 PM #603
      Excellent.

      I have tried reading up on some of that stuff, but your explanation makes a whole lot more sense then what I have read so far.

      When I pull the motor, is there some maintencae on the trans that I should do. The car has unknown amount of miles. When I got it, the fluid was low. I added more, and drove it all summer. It does leak around the pan seal (from what I can tell). I have swapped that out for a new rubber on, and put in a new filter, but the seal still leaks. I have torqued to spec, and tried tighten and loosening the bolts with not help. From what I can see the fluid is not coming out from around the filler neck.
      "Those two piece splits are as close to fakes splits as real splits get"

    9. Member A2TDI's Avatar
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      10-25-2011 07:02 PM #604
      on a side note i sheared all of my torque converter bolt while attempting a pass on the highway...time to re drill and use a 3/8 arp bolt.
      90 4 dr jetta 2L 20V PTE 6262 at 30 psi 10.95 @ 135 mph 2250lbs (94 octane pump gas street car)

    10. Member B4S's Avatar
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      10-25-2011 09:25 PM #605
      I've been gone for a bit, bought a car, attempted to put my VW to the side, cleaned the garage, threw away all my spare 010s (yeah...facktard move )...and then started to feel better. Decided to take a peek at the only VW engine I kept after the purge. I've apparently been sitting on a FRESHLY rebuilt 2.0 16v (seriously, dipped and painted), oldschool pre-ebay T3/T4e (50 A/R coldside, .48 hot), Porsche turbo external gate, stainless manifold, and 3" DP.

      I got pretty down after my 010 started mixing gear oil and ATF, maybe I'll start poking at it, since I haven't sold the parts yet.

      A2TDI: How are you planning on getting around the problem of the stupid small converter bolt heads? There's not much room there to play with.
      Fick Deps?, Get Deb!

    11. Member A2TDI's Avatar
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      10-26-2011 09:18 PM #606
      sounds like you have a small gold mine sitting there! Im just going to drill and tap the holes to a 3/8 fine thread then cut down the small block chevy ARP flexplate bolts to fit. next year I may go a bit further with the power department maybe a little bit of nitrous and water meth injection and higher boost! im too cheap to buy a better turbo and i believe there is still more power in this holset.
      90 4 dr jetta 2L 20V PTE 6262 at 30 psi 10.95 @ 135 mph 2250lbs (94 octane pump gas street car)

    12. Member B4S's Avatar
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      10-26-2011 09:43 PM #607
      Started tearing down the 010 tonight. The pump drive shaft is scored HORRIBLY, but the turbine shaft is fine. Same goes for the inside of the pinion/stator support tube, smooth and fine. Hmm.

      The gear oil level is LOW, so I don't think they mixed at all. It's easily still within stock level limits, and the ATF is still reddish (just smells really burnt). I'm going to dig a bit deeper and overhaul the box as best I can though. It's draining now, so I don't know what I need yet, but I will probably be ordering some clutches from TE, possibly a new band too, depending on condition.

      A trick sometimes used is to weld extra pads on the converter. There's a ton of room for new bolts on the flexplate, maybe 6 pads would be something to think about, lol.
      Fick Deps?, Get Deb!

    13. Member B4S's Avatar
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      10-26-2011 10:34 PM #608
      Upon closer inspection...yep, it mixed. Gear oil is way below where it should be, and the pinion support seals are old and brittle. The O-ring is loose too, sigh.

      All this trouble because I was too lazy to change those seals .

      Anyone know the best way to flush a converter? I'm tempted to drill a hole and tap it for a plug, like the Fords have.
      Fick Deps?, Get Deb!

    14. Member B4S's Avatar
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      10-27-2011 10:02 AM #609
      Sigh again.
      Now I'm not sure it mixed, because the diff isn't pressurized, so the ATF would obviously have flowed into the gear oil area...raising the level a lot. There's always been a slight seep/misting at the rear cover, but definitely not enough to drain it as far as it is...especially since the floor would be covered with fluid if that was the case. It's bone dry under where it's been sitting for the past couple of months. Arg.

      Compounding all of this is the fact that I used Royal Purple gear oil, so it's already a bit reddish.

      I've decided to send the converter off for flushing/rebuild, just in case. It'll be ~300-400 bucks, but better safe than sorry I guess. I've got a local place (Fireball automatics), so I'll skip out early one day and bring it to them. Now I just have to call TE and order new clutches and a band. I'd love to stay on stock clutches, but I have no idea how long they'd last. My current ones didn't last long...but they were all old, used ones .
      Fick Deps?, Get Deb!

    15. 10-27-2011 11:56 AM #610
      Just for the sake of discussion, I wanted to point out that the only reason that we're using an 010 is because the motor makes 500+ whp and it kept ripping the teeth off third gear in our 02A. If we were anything less than 400 whp, I'd still be on a manual box. Hell, our 020 took up to 300 whp and it's really light, cheap and parts are plentiful compared to the 02A and 010.
      St.Louis Blues hockey fan!
      The blackhawks suck.

    16. Member A2TDI's Avatar
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      10-29-2011 12:26 PM #611
      I also plan on running around 500 hp I changed because the quick shifting really helps chop down e.t's and also had problems breaking gears and problems shifting at high rpms. I want to make moaaaar power and eventually reach high 10s. everything I have been breaking has been my fault. And just a little side note the torque converter that comes on the audi 5000 turbo front wheel drive comes with a 4 pad torque converter that is the same as our regular front drive ones>
      90 4 dr jetta 2L 20V PTE 6262 at 30 psi 10.95 @ 135 mph 2250lbs (94 octane pump gas street car)

    17. Member B4S's Avatar
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      10-29-2011 02:45 PM #612
      Nice, I wonder if the flexplate would work too.

      Got a quote on fixing my converter...$400 to have it cut open and cleaned out. That's not re-stalling it either, didn't ask. Darnit .
      Fick Deps?, Get Deb!

    18. Member A2TDI's Avatar
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      10-29-2011 05:29 PM #613
      send your converter to sinister speed converters! they rebuilt mine and restalled for 400 shipped lol
      90 4 dr jetta 2L 20V PTE 6262 at 30 psi 10.95 @ 135 mph 2250lbs (94 octane pump gas street car)

    19. Member B4S's Avatar
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      11-01-2011 03:53 PM #614
      I want to use my 010 so badly...building an ABA/16vT currently...and last year's tranny implosion (gear oil/atf mixing incident) has got my confidence shaken. I hate the idea of building it back up (at substantial cost, needs all new clutches and a band from TE) only to see it slip itself away again because I daily drove it too much.

      Convince me I'm nuts...dammit I've been living/breathing/sleeping these things for years and now I'm hesitating, lol. ARRRRRRRRGH!
      Fick Deps?, Get Deb!

    20. Member B4S's Avatar
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      11-01-2011 08:17 PM #615
      Awesome. My idiocy strikes again. Tore the box down tonight...and quickly realized that I really needed one of the spare 010s I threw away last month .

      The direct drum was the issue, and it's a stupid one. I'm using the wave-style spring on the piston instead of the multi-spring type that's in some boxes. When I pulled the drum apart, the spring had completely flipped around (if that makes sense). There was nothing to push the piston back into the drum...so the pressure being applied on the direct drum was minimal. This caused a lot of heat and slippage. The clutches and steels all need to be replaced...but there was no gear oil in the ATF!

      There's also an Audi 5000 turbo automatic within reach, I might just go for that instead of rebuilding mine. It would give me a chance to start off fresh, since I feel one of my experimental mods is to blame, lol.

      HUZZAH!

      [edit] Yep, it's my fault. The wave spring piston retainer I used requires a slightly concave pressure plate...and I used a regular flat steel. Darnit. It's only $33 online though, and Porsche uses that exact same spring retainer in the 944 autos. Hmm...
      Last edited by B4S; 11-01-2011 at 08:43 PM.
      Fick Deps?, Get Deb!

    21. Member B4S's Avatar
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      11-02-2011 10:10 AM #616
      Ok, so I know what part I need to fix my box. I had this part, and a bunch more just like it...but I threw everything away last month in a fit of COLOSSAL stupidity. So I call VW to order the part, which still exists on their books. GREAT!

      NOT! They don't show a single one anywhere in the world. Fabulous. So now, I need to find a parts transmission, or start over with something else. I'm an idiot.
      Fick Deps?, Get Deb!

    22. Member A2TDI's Avatar
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      11-02-2011 07:37 PM #617
      you should pick up that audi box rebuild it with new clutches, change the 4 studs that hold the bell housing on,change the fron cover that drives the governor (this is a must), punch out the block off plug for the dipstick and throw in the fwd dipstick and your golden. just make sure you order the clutches for the audi because they are different.
      90 4 dr jetta 2L 20V PTE 6262 at 30 psi 10.95 @ 135 mph 2250lbs (94 octane pump gas street car)

    23. Member B4S's Avatar
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      11-02-2011 11:29 PM #618
      I'm going to try to get the box tomorrow morning, before work. I'll call in saying I'll be a little late, lol. I've heard you can remove the transaxle portion from under the car, without removing the engine/transmission. Should just be the four nuts and some cut cables, fingers crossed.

      A refreshed Audi turbo box, with the larger direct drum and cooler ports, should be perfect .
      Fick Deps?, Get Deb!

    24. Member B4S's Avatar
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      11-03-2011 03:12 PM #619
      Yeah...removing it from underneath is no easier than cutting the front clip off with a plastic butter knife. I had to abandon the job, after 5 or 6 hours in the rain, because there was some exhaust in the way and I couldn't get the box far enough back off the turbine shaft. I'm going back as soon as I can, hopefully tomorrow afternoon.

      I had to drop the subframe, undo the tranny mounts (from the box), undo the strut tower bolts, cut things, bend things, sacrifice small mammals, eat a few spoonfuls of wasabi, and a few things I'm not proud of (and never want to talk about). It's almost mine though, MUAHAHAHAHAHA.

      Oh yeah, there's one stud that can't be undone properly without a stubby 13mm, and of course I didn't have one. 1/8th of a turn at a time, and of course, the stud comes out too, instead of just the nut coming undone. Took FOREVER.
      Last edited by B4S; 11-03-2011 at 03:29 PM.
      Fick Deps?, Get Deb!

    25. Member wantacad's Avatar
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      11-03-2011 03:47 PM #620
      Quote Originally Posted by B4S View Post
      Yeah...removing it from underneath is no easier than cutting the front clip off with a plastic butter knife. I had to abandon the job, after 5 or 6 hours in the rain, because there was some exhaust in the way and I couldn't get the box far enough back off the turbine shaft. I'm going back as soon as I can, hopefully tomorrow afternoon.

      I had to drop the subframe, undo the tranny mounts (from the box), undo the strut tower bolts, cut things, bend things, sacrifice small mammals, eat a few spoonfuls of wasabi, and a few things I'm not proud of (and never want to talk about). It's almost mine though, MUAHAHAHAHAHA.

      Oh yeah, there's one stud that can't be undone properly without a stubby 13mm, and of course I didn't have one. 1/8th of a turn at a time, and of course, the stud comes out too, instead of just the nut coming undone. Took FOREVER.
      squeal like a pig?
      Quote Originally Posted by WackyWabbitRacer View Post
      You're new here but don't be a DORK.....
      Cheers, WWR.
      Quote Originally Posted by rte7x9 View Post
      Don't swap if you can't weld or fabricate. It's not a trivial task just to bolt everything up. There's a lot of nut-scratching involved. Take your time and do it right.

    26. Member B4S's Avatar
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      11-03-2011 05:03 PM #621
      More like cry like a baby. I've got some pretty banged up pre-arthritic wrists (a couple decades of skateboarding), and it got so bad that I couldn't feel my hands. F**k stopping though, pain is just a reminder that you want something REALLY badly .
      Fick Deps?, Get Deb!

    27. Member B4S's Avatar
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      11-05-2011 03:40 PM #622
      Got it!
      Yeah, I recommend to anyone into this sort of thing to find an Audi 5000T box. I've done a teardown on it already and DAMN, it just looks tough. The thrust washer between the front cover and the forward drum is brass, instead of plastic. The 4 pinion planetaries are just mean looking, and there are 5 clutches in the forward drum already. I regret not listening to everyone's advice sooner. The Mk2 box is good, but the 5000T box is better!

      I've already swapped over the chromoly pump drive, and will work on the rebuild once I clean the case a bit. The cooler ports are going to hit the Mk1 tranny mount, so it'll have to be modded to allow them to pass. Shouldn't be very hard.
      Fick Deps?, Get Deb!

    28. Member B4S's Avatar
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      11-05-2011 09:49 PM #623
      Oh, anyone able to tell me how much Jeff sells the uprated clutches for? I want to call on Monday, but don't want to get caught out on the pricing. I'm also tempted to look into the laser cut arm and TE shifter.
      Fick Deps?, Get Deb!

    29. Member Rabbit6's Avatar
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      11-05-2011 10:59 PM #624
      Chad,
      You're a rubber ball. Glad to see you careening back this way again... for now...?

      You must have been in really dark times if you threw away, not gave away 010 spares.

      Anyway, I have some good news. See the post below.
      3 speeds are better than no speeds. I LOVE 010 AUTO TRANSMISSIONS!!

      If you need ANYTHING from China, let me know. I'm not talking about door handles. I'm talking containers of anything made there. I can cut out all the middlemen.

    30. Member Rabbit6's Avatar
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      11-05-2011 11:25 PM #625
      So as Jeff mentioned, I'm back in China (sigh) and spent my first week in Shanghai at a trade show.
      Lo and behold, tucked--no, hidden amongst literally 50+ pneumatic fitting booths was this:



      and, more notably, THESE:



      After quite a long chat with this very interesting fellow, I came away with a firm belief that he is one of the exceedingly rare non-western managed (not trying to set a stereotype or bias here, this is simply based on personal observation thus far-- which has made me a VERY skeptical person) companies that is acually making a quality product.
      To the point.
      This fellow takes a personal interest in performance automotive products, though his bread and butter is the high volume stuff like truck brake pads and the like.
      So he has 4 different levels of performance friction clutch (wet or dry) material above the regular heavy duty stuff, and can apply it to just about anything. He also has performance brake compounds.
      So I'm trying to find someone willing to send me a set of all shapes and sizes in frictions and steels and 2nd gear bands for both the VW and audi 5KT 010's for him to copy. While at it, a 210mm 020 and a 228mm 02A disc would also be useful, but for our purposes in this thread, the auto stuff alone would suffice.
      Pricing has yet to be determined, but we can be guaranteed it'll be significantly cheaper than (and I quote) "forward clutch and direct clutch (min qty 30 plates) $51.78 USD each." from Raybestos for applying their performance compound to 010 parts.
      Naturally, I'm going to contact TE about this as well, but I'm sure the 010 brothas on here would far rather buying direct than buying from a vendor, no?

      Can I have a tally of who may be interested in this?

      Dzai Jian!
      Last edited by Rabbit6; 11-06-2011 at 12:20 AM.
      3 speeds are better than no speeds. I LOVE 010 AUTO TRANSMISSIONS!!

      If you need ANYTHING from China, let me know. I'm not talking about door handles. I'm talking containers of anything made there. I can cut out all the middlemen.

    31. Member Rabbit6's Avatar
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      11-06-2011 12:02 AM #626
      oh yeah, and here are some autocross videos from last month.
      84 rabbit , turbo G60, 010 AUTOMATIC

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC93Pcp0EKY


      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsPa9tZuPjo


      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxjeJVTjcE8

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKn2Oq0crh8


      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP2gyrEBOrs



      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T91geLdJQk



      The auto performed flawlessly. This particular box has the peloquin 80% kit (modestly helpful) and govenor mods only. I select 2nd gear, allow it to upshift into 2nd when it wants and do not hit the kickdown so it stays in 2nd the whole time. With a small turbo g60 engine, there's enough torque to pull hard from low RPM in 2nd, and it works quite well. If I were running a n/a engine, i'd probably kick it down in when at low rpm as the govenor mod allows fairly rapid upshifting.
      A wild WILD day, and the old wabbit kicked PLENTY of BMW ass. I had so much fun. If only I had a limited slip differential....
      3 speeds are better than no speeds. I LOVE 010 AUTO TRANSMISSIONS!!

      If you need ANYTHING from China, let me know. I'm not talking about door handles. I'm talking containers of anything made there. I can cut out all the middlemen.

    32. Member B4S's Avatar
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      11-06-2011 08:40 AM #627
      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit6 View Post
      So as Jeff mentioned, I'm back in China (sigh) and spent my first week in Shanghai at a trade show.
      Lo and behold, tucked--no, hidden amongst literally 50+ pneumatic fitting booths was this:



      and, more notably, THESE:



      After quite a long chat with this very interesting fellow, I came away with a firm belief that he is one of the exceedingly rare non-western managed (not trying to set a stereotype or bias here, this is simply based on personal observation thus far-- which has made me a VERY skeptical person) companies that is acually making a quality product.
      To the point.
      This fellow takes a personal interest in performance automotive products, though his bread and butter is the high volume stuff like truck brake pads and the like.
      So he has 4 different levels of performance friction clutch (wet or dry) material above the regular heavy duty stuff, and can apply it to just about anything. He also has performance brake compounds.
      So I'm trying to find someone willing to send me a set of all shapes and sizes in frictions and steels and 2nd gear bands for both the VW and audi 5KT 010's for him to copy. While at it, a 210mm 020 and a 228mm 02A disc would also be useful, but for our purposes in this thread, the auto stuff alone would suffice.
      Pricing has yet to be determined, but we can be guaranteed it'll be significantly cheaper than (and I quote) "forward clutch and direct clutch (min qty 30 plates) $51.78 USD each." from Raybestos for applying their performance compound to 010 parts.
      Naturally, I'm going to contact TE about this as well, but I'm sure the 010 brothas on here would far rather buying direct than buying from a vendor, no?

      Can I have a tally of who may be interested in this?

      Dzai Jian!
      Yeah, I know...my brain is made of superball material . I realized the 54 Plymouth just wasn't my thing, and the time away from VWs did me good.

      The brake bands are the same, whether 010 or 087, as are the forward clutches/steels. The only different ones are the direct clutches. I am going to be upgrading mine (or at least rebuilding), so I can send you everything if you want. It'll be used, if that's ok. I can try to brake-clean them up and get all the ATF off. This is awesome news, and while I may change my mind a few times between now and spring, I'd love to donate the parts needed to add more to the 010 performance stable .
      Fick Deps?, Get Deb!

    33. Member Rabbit6's Avatar
      Join Date
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      81 rabbit TD, 83 rabbit G60T
      11-06-2011 09:31 AM #628
      Sweet. Brake clean would be good, the postal service doesn't like boxes with oil stains!
      The only other thing would be I'd need to know the thickness of the new plate, and pics of them showing the directions of the little grooves, if the old ones are worn off. I'd like Audi and VW plates, if you've got both. Lemme know when you've got them all rounded up.
      Welcome back, thread daddy!
      3 speeds are better than no speeds. I LOVE 010 AUTO TRANSMISSIONS!!

      If you need ANYTHING from China, let me know. I'm not talking about door handles. I'm talking containers of anything made there. I can cut out all the middlemen.

    34. Member B4S's Avatar
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      2002 Forester S, 1987 GTI 16v
      11-07-2011 12:29 PM #629
      Just got a quote from Jeff at TE for all the clutches, steels, and flame-cut shifter arm. Comes in at under $200 for everything, including shipping. Now I need to dig up some money .

      It's been said before, and it should be said again: Jeff at Transaxle Engineering is a hell of a nice guy to deal with. Especially considering his target market isn't FWD cars. Two thumbs up for TE!
      Fick Deps?, Get Deb!

    35. Member oneunder's Avatar
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      89 Cabby, 01 xit
      11-07-2011 12:32 PM #630
      Less than 2 bills for the rebuilt?

      Thats a hell of a deal.
      "Those two piece splits are as close to fakes splits as real splits get"

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