The 010 Lost Knowledge Thread

[rychas1]

too much fluid.

[CoolAirVw]

Quote, originally posted by sec914 »

just picked up a 86 cabriolet with a trans that is puking fluid out of the vent port. happened after the previous owner changed the fluid and cleaned the screen any ideas? original problem was leaking pan gasket.

WHen the seals between the torque converter section and the diff section fail it can send the converter charge oil into the diff overfilling it.

[88vwFox]

I have been looking for some time now trying to find out what aftermarket fluid to use in my 81 rabbit auto. I am sure it's a 010 3 speed but finding info on it is like pulling teeth. I think I remember seeing somewhere about using the same fluid for both the diff and the ATF. Something about having GL-4 and some other rating from red-line? I am looking for this info because I really don't mind the auto it makes me drive the car nice but I would like to do do a fluid/filter change to keep it in tip top shape.

PS don't let this thread die, it is the ONLY one with any real 010 info.

[Rabbit6]

I don't think there are any miracle fluids out there. A high quality synthetic is the way to go. If you're monkeying around with the valvebody etc, i'd suggest getting a 20L pail of regular fluid, and once you've satisified yourself with your changes, then upgrade to synthetic. I never re-use fluid dumped from a trans, even if it's only gone for one test drive. No matter how carefully you clean the transmission's innards, there always seems to be more debris suspended in the fluid.
Remember, the torque converter holds quite a bit, so simply draining the pan and refilling can't be considered a complete oil change.
Diff oil is seperate from trans fluid. Synthetic is good here, too. Just remember, fluid lifespan decreases exponentially with heat. If you're gonna run her hard, put a cooler in. Not too hard to do, see above.

[88vwFox]

Ok so you say to use a high quality synthetic, is there a spec I should be looking for? Dex III/mercon, ATF+4? there are many different ATF's all with different specs. I would just like to know so it's post here and so I can make sure I get the right thing the first time.

[B4S]

The diff should get the usual VW gear oil (75w90, GL-4), and Dexron III ATF in the box itself. Redline makes an ATF with GL-4 gear oil properties, which eliminates the need for dual fluids in the box...thus eliminating the fluid-mixing-death these boxes usually end up with.

I really want to monkey around with an 010 again, but I just don't have the time/energy to go so deep into a project right now .

[88vwFox]

Quote, originally posted by B4S »

The diff should get the usual VW gear oil (75w90, GL-4), and Dexron III ATF in the box itself. Redline makes an ATF with GL-4 gear oil properties, which eliminates the need for dual fluids in the box...thus eliminating the fluid-mixing-death these boxes usually end up with. I really want to monkey around with an 010 again, but I just don't have the time/energy to go so deep into a project right now .

I believe this is the product you are talking about http://www.redlineoil.com/prod...cid=9 The only problem I see with this is that trying to keep the fluid levels at the recommended spec.

Quick note, this is the first car I have EVER owned with an auto. I am one major noobi when it comes to auto trans.

[B4S]

Well, if the seal that separates the diff and gearbox is still intact, then all this fluid does is offer piece of mind. The seal should stay in place, and be replaced if it's dead...but that fluid offers a bit of extra insurance IMO .

[jfg69]

Just out of curiosity, while I go off and attempt a search on more info.. can I swap one of these into my 1990 16V Passat Wagon? IMy current auto has the dreaded 2-3 gear slip, but seems to be fine after its fully warmed up. Apparently been that way for some time according to the PO.
The thought of actually having a manual VB in a VW intrigues me, having had some hot automatics when I was building Chevy's and Olds's.. not that I expect to be chirping gears on the upshift in my 16V Passat..

[B4S]

Sure, you might have to rig up a shifter (not sure if the gates are the same), and you'll only have three speeds vs. four (might be revvy on the highway)...but you can dump all the electronic stuff .

it's a bolt-in deal, if you've got all the stuff (flexplate, TC, etc), and 100mm axle flanges on the box. Some of the early ones had 90mm flanges.

[Rabbit6]

try an oil and filter change? helped on a 16v passat I was working on.
A friend suggested that while the pan was off, start the engine, and shift through each gear (up on stands, foot brake holding wheels still) and back into park. I did, and the trans vomited out old fluid through all the different shift valves. This is fluid that would have remained in the trans and contaminated the new stuff. More than likely, the pump emptied out some from the torque converter. The whole process took less than 30 seconds, and with no real drive load, I don't think any damage could occur. I haven't tried this on a 3 speed, but I don't think I'll hesitate to, next time.
My wabbit lays a good patch into 2nd, and chirps 3rd. Don't see why a 16v couldn't!
It's a wicked feeling.


Modified by Rabbit6 at 6:36 AM 4-19-2010

[jfg69]

Quote, originally posted by B4S »

Sure, you might have to rig up a shifter (not sure if the gates are the same), and you'll only have three speeds vs. four (might be revvy on the highway)...but you can dump all the electronic stuff . it's a bolt-in deal, if you've got all the stuff (flexplate, TC, etc), and 100mm axle flanges on the box. Some of the early ones had 90mm flanges.

Could always swap out the final drive for the highway I would think.. anything available in the aftermarket for a shifter? I like this idea.. electronics and VW automatics should not be mentioned in the same sentence.. lol

[rychas1]

i had my 3speed mated to a 16v in my mk2 jetta. it does wonders to a sad face do it!

[B4S]

Quote, originally posted by jfg69 »

Could always swap out the final drive for the highway I would think.. anything available in the aftermarket for a shifter? I like this idea.. electronics and VW automatics should not be mentioned in the same sentence.. lol

Unfortunately there are no aftermarket options for final drives . The 1985-1986 (yep, one year only) 'TJ' box has the longest ratios...but it's really hard to find.

[Daskoupe]

just saw this thread.My dad and me have a very built 8v drag rabbit wish this trans in it.
We have modified the trans(the valve body and governor mainly).IT has held up to 100+ 7000rpm launches.This a great trans has no problem shifting at 7800.

[LA7VJetta]

Quote, originally posted by B4S »

Unfortunately there are no aftermarket options for final drives . The 1985-1986 (yep, one year only) 'TJ' box has the longest ratios...but it's really hard to find.

I happen to have a TJ in my Jetta MK2, didnt realize it was rare.

[B4S]

They're definitely rare. I scrapped a car with one in it, in a moment of stupidity .

This is really odd, I was thinking about 010s this morning and this thread pops up. A sign perhaps?

[LA7VJetta]

Quote, originally posted by B4S »

They're definitely rare. I scrapped a car with one in it, in a moment of stupidity . This is really odd, I was thinking about 010s this morning and this thread pops up. A sign perhaps?

possibly. I was going to go turbo with a 5 speed swap, but it looks like my trans would probably hold 250 hp?

[B4S]

With a 'freshening', it'll easily hold that much. These boxes are the same (more or less) as the ones that were used in the Audi 4000/5000/5000T, and they held up quite well in such heavy cars .

Slow shifting on a stock box will be your only enemy, although there are options (as mentioned above).

[LA7VJetta]

good to know

[jwfreed]

this was a description of exactly what I just did. I had a problem of VERY hard shifting when the car was cold but after it warmed up, things worked fine. I suspected a dirty valve body and your description of the process was pretty good, although, I'll tell you what, you better watch those f'ning ball bearings!

[LA7VJetta]

so I am going to AutoX my car, how should i go about doing it with the auto? manually shift? leave the shifter in 2nd?

[Rabbit6]

Depends on the track.
I would leave it in 1st. If you find you're bouncing off the rev limiter for more than about 2 seconds between corners, then put it in 2nd. Just leave it there and let the trans do the thinking. Your hands, feet and brain are going to be busy enough without worrying about what gear you're in.
Two-foot it at the start. Full throttle and full brake. Release the brake to launch. That'll speed things up a bit off the start.
Good luck, and please post results on here. I'm taking my turbo G60 010 rabbit to the autocross soon! Can't wait!

[LA7VJetta]

this is the track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M9pAr5Swp0

[LA7VJetta]

TJ trans vs TC diesel trans http://www.fatboyraceworks.com...are=1

[Rabbit6]

Pretty short track. Lotsa 1st gear, for sure, maybe a touch of 2nd. I think you'd need some good power to make any real use of 2nd gear here, given the sloppy, slow shifting of a stocker trans (if that's what you're running) I'd stick to the above formula.

[LA7VJetta]

i am running a stock TJ

[LA7VJetta]

also, anyone that has run a manual valve body, what shifter did you use, and did you still have engine breaking in first and second?

[Rabbit6]

Here's my experimental method of disabling the main accumulator.
1. make a plug. I used an M10x1 pressure plate bolt.

You don't need locktite, or a sealant. It can only go as deep as the threads you cut, and can't back off because of the seperator plate. The one lame thing of this method is that the pressure port you take gauge measurements from is disabled. It's not a big deal, because you have to at least take the tranny pan off, if not the valve body out to make pressure changes. So it's really nothing extra to pull your new accumulator plug out, or simply don't install it until you've achieved your desired line pressure, and won't be measuring anymore.

2. Pull the valve body and locate the accumulator supply passage.


It's an ideal time to clean the valve body as described earlier in this thread.

3. Drill the hole out. 1/2"-3/4" deep will do. I believe 11/32" drill for an M10x1.0 tap. Make absolutely certain all chips are removed from everywhere.


4. Tap. Remove debris.


5. Deburr. Remove debris.


6. Install plug. No threadlock. No sealant, No pipethread plug.


7. Finished result. Make sure it's threaded in below the surface.


8. For now, jam the accumulator piston and spring back in, and reassemble everything, including your freshly cleaned valve body. Re-fill with new ATF according to bentley (3L) and double check the level at operating temp on a level surface. Take her for a drive and enjoy your markedly improved 2-3 shift

[LA7VJetta]

very nice, what does the accumulator do exactly?

[Rabbit6]

Gear shifting is performed by 'muscle fluid' being directed from the shift valves to the actuators. To make the shift soft, slow and smooth, some of this muscle fluid is directed into the accumulator while on it's way to the actuator. It is used to push the accumulator piston down against spring pressure.
By eliminating the accumulator, all of the muscle fluid's work is concentrated on the shift, and not wasted pushing accumulators around. This causes the shift to happen quite a bit more rapidly. I don't think this is the be-all end-all answer to a perfect 2-3 shift. I have a feeling that something needs to be done to cause the 2nd gear brake band to release faster as well as speeding up the direct clutch engagement. But this is certainly an improvement over stock.

[rjev]

some day when I'm feeling braver I'm going to try some of these things. great info guys.

[LA7VJetta]

bump

[B4S]

DAMN! I've been missing out!
Thanks for the info on the accumulator mod, if I decide to try out the auto a bit sooner than later, I'm going to give this a try. I wonder if setting the brake band a bit looser would help it disengage quicker? I should be running boost by the end of the week, if I can find a spare oil pan to weld a return on to. I really miss my 010 G60 Mk1 .

[VWtuner-nl]

just saw this thread.My dad and me have a very built 8v drag rabbit wish this trans in it.
We have modified the trans(the valve body and governor mainly).IT has held up to 100+ 7000rpm launches.This a great trans has no problem shifting at 7800.

Would you like to shear information about the modifications done to the transmission?
What kind of torque converter are you using?