The 010 Lost Knowledge Thread

[A2TDI]

so I must have broken the torque converter as well as all the other parts lol.. I will have to cut the converter apart and inspect it then. I have a few more converters laying around so i will have to do some measuring on monday. Anyone else break a torque converter yet or have any problems?

[B4S]

I'm dusting off an old thread .
My workbench is clean after a winter of abuse, so I'm going to get to finishing my Audi/010 box. I want to make sure it's a perfect setup before it goes in, so I'm going to get the starter rebuilt and round up an external cooler. I'm also looking for a stock Mk1 shifter lever, if anyone has one. I like my quarterstick, but I don't trust the shift arm I made at the tranny. I have the shifter/arm from the audi I got the box from, but it's got a funky shift pattern that I'm not sure I like.

[motorcarman]

I love this thread and I look for it every few months. I got the idea of a 1982 Rabbit Turbo-Diesel Automatic gearbox from this thread.

I have a 1980 Rabbit 1.6 K-Jetronic that was the wife's first VW back in 1981 (one year old used car). The engine quit in 1993. I still have it but it is good for parts. I drove her 1985 1.8 K-Jetronic Jetta Auto Gearbox car after I got her into a 1992 Jaguar XJ6.

The 1985 Jetta had 351,000 miles on it when I parked it with all the suspension bushes TOTALLY worn out. The TJ gearbox was slipping a little and taking a long time to shift. I read here that the final drive ratio was 3.12.

I got a 1982 4 door diesel Rabbit with a 5 Speed manual for a 'parts runner' for my repair shop.
A guy at another shop in town had a 1985 Jetta with a MF Turbo Diesel. He rebuilt the engine and put it in his Rock Crawler Suzuki Samurai but it was not enough power for him.

He offered the engine and a bunch of parts for $400 so I bought it. I bought an 010 rebuild kit and replaced all the worn parts in the box. I threaded and plugged the main accumulator but I drilled a small diameter hole so it is not totally disabled, just restricted (thanks rabbit6)

I found a reman Bosch diesel starter and between the 4 cars I got the MF TD engine, TJ autobox and shifter assembled into the 1982 Rabbit 4 door.

I had to modify the exhaust downpipe to angle correctly in the Rabbit. It runs fine but I need to get an intake filter fitted into the right front engine compartment and get the exhaust bent/fitted from the rear of the tunnel to the back through a muffler.

I needed to get an auto trans parts runner for the times I have to go into the BIG CITY (Fort Worth TX) every once in a while and fight the traffic. I got tired of 3 peddling the stopped traffic on the jammed highways.

I was getting 38 MPG city with the CR 52HP 5 speed so I will keep track of the fuel economy to see if the ease of driving is worth the MPG loss.

I'll post pics if anyone is interested in the ongoing project.

Thanks for all the info on this 010 thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bob gauff

[sgjii]

I believe I read in this thread about using Redline D4 ATF fluid in the 010 transmission and in the differential housing. Before I go off with half knowledge and change some fluids, could I get a piece of mind reply, that I am doing the right thing by putting the same Redline fluid in both the automatic shifting side of the transmission AND the differential side where there is currently hypoid gear oil?

If I remember correctly the suggestion was from both a lower resistance thus better fuel economy standpoint as well as the idea if there were a gasket failure and the two chambers mixed, it would be of minimal consequence rather than killing the 010 box.

Thanks in advance for the adivce from the 010 masters

Stephen

[B4S]

I love this thread and I look for it every few months. I got the idea of a 1982 Rabbit Turbo-Diesel Automatic gearbox from this thread.

I have a 1980 Rabbit 1.6 K-Jetronic that was the wife's first VW back in 1981 (one year old used car). The engine quit in 1993. I still have it but it is good for parts. I drove her 1985 1.8 K-Jetronic Jetta Auto Gearbox car after I got her into a 1992 Jaguar XJ6.

The 1985 Jetta had 351,000 miles on it when I parked it with all the suspension bushes TOTALLY worn out. The TJ gearbox was slipping a little and taking a long time to shift. I read here that the final drive ratio was 3.12.

I got a 1982 4 door diesel Rabbit with a 5 Speed manual for a 'parts runner' for my repair shop.
A guy at another shop in town had a 1985 Jetta with a MF Turbo Diesel. He rebuilt the engine and put it in his Rock Crawler Suzuki Samurai but it was not enough power for him.

He offered the engine and a bunch of parts for $400 so I bought it. I bought an 010 rebuild kit and replaced all the worn parts in the box. I threaded and plugged the main accumulator but I drilled a small diameter hole so it is not totally disabled, just restricted (thanks rabbit6)

I found a reman Bosch diesel starter and between the 4 cars I got the MF TD engine, TJ autobox and shifter assembled into the 1982 Rabbit 4 door.

I had to modify the exhaust downpipe to angle correctly in the Rabbit. It runs fine but I need to get an intake filter fitted into the right front engine compartment and get the exhaust bent/fitted from the rear of the tunnel to the back through a muffler.

I needed to get an auto trans parts runner for the times I have to go into the BIG CITY (Fort Worth TX) every once in a while and fight the traffic. I got tired of 3 peddling the stopped traffic on the jammed highways.

I was getting 38 MPG city with the CR 52HP 5 speed so I will keep track of the fuel economy to see if the ease of driving is worth the MPG loss.

I'll post pics if anyone is interested in the ongoing project.

Thanks for all the info on this 010 thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bob gauff

I'm interested . Sounds like a cool project, glad this thread could help!

[B4S]

I believe I read in this thread about using Redline D4 ATF fluid in the 010 transmission and in the differential housing. Before I go off with half knowledge and change some fluids, could I get a piece of mind reply, that I am doing the right thing by putting the same Redline fluid in both the automatic shifting side of the transmission AND the differential side where there is currently hypoid gear oil?

If I remember correctly the suggestion was from both a lower resistance thus better fuel economy standpoint as well as the idea if there were a gasket failure and the two chambers mixed, it would be of minimal consequence rather than killing the 010 box.

Thanks in advance for the adivce from the 010 masters

Stephen

I originally said that, and to be honest, I've never tested that theory. After seeing how easy it is to change the seals to keep the two fluids separate, I decided not to try. I was unable to find concrete data on the idea of using that fluid in both areas, and didn't want to take the chance on something unknown.

[sgjii]

Are the seals between the two areas readily available? I also haven't been interested in pulling the 010 out of my 4000 at this point, with it's super low miles.

I do have the 010 TJ box I want to put in my Scirocco but work got in the way of any progress on that project for the last 2months-ish.

[B4S]

Yep, Rock Auto has everything .

[Rabbit6]

my awesome 010 update:
Still stuck working in awesome china. completely devoid of anything fun to play with.

back for a 2 week visit in september, featuring at least 1 autocross race, in my 010 rabbit! with a little luck it'll finally be sporting a freshly redone 010 with all the TE goodies

[mrrbiggz]

I love this thread!! On to the good stuff. I was given a 92 golf with an auto box. I put a batt in and she fired up. Been sitting for 2 years! put her in drive and BAAMM it went into gear hard..I went back to P and went to R..smooth no hard shifts..went from R to D and its smooth... only from P to D...any thing I should look at first? I will be putting it in my garage tonite..I plan on stating with the fluid drain and filter..any opinions are welcome!!

[Rabbit6]

I'd suggest sloppy engine mounts, and maybe a high idle could do that.
In P, everything is relaxed. Popping it into D (especially if it idles high) applies torque to the wheels and if your mounts are sloppy, the engine will jump. Going from R to D is moving from a state of torque to a state of torque, with not enough time for a relaxed period in between.
A similar phenomenon could happen if some/all of your suspension/steering parts are shot. When torque comes through the trans, the brakes stop it, but what stops the steering knuckle from spinning? The strut mount, the ball joint, the tie rod, etc.
The bang you describe could be the torque being taken up by slop in mounts or suspension, or perhaps even CV joints.
If you can get the old beastie (nice score, btw... any pics?) up on a drive-on hoist, and have someone cycle it between P and D, perhaps you can sniff around underneath with a mechanic's stethoscope and pinpoint where the sound is coming from, if not right out observe it visually.
Incidentally, P-R would cause the torque to flex the mounts in the opposite direction of forward gears, which might explain why it bangs going into D and not R.

[rjev]

While we're on the topic, my auto has always had a bit of a tendency to clunk into gear at times. P-D, P-R, D-P and R-P are all fine and pretty quiet, but there's often a good clunk going from R-D, mostly just when the car is at operating temp and idling high (~1050). Mounts are in good shape, suspension is flawless, transmission works perfectly. I've just always wondered. What do you figure, Rabbit6?

[MissHood]

hey, how is everyone? hopefully I dont ask some silly noob question but I just picked up this 92 cabriolet with an 010 that shifts poorly, amoung other lack of power issues. I'm trying to get this thing running good, I got a smokin deal on it. here is my question, do these trans have an rear main seal? im trying to find the torque spec. the gear engagement is delayed in upshifting. k thanks

[MissHood]

also.. am I missing something where the 2 open holes are? becuase I think the one hole I see right into some gear/torque converter.

[B4S]

Nope, not missing anything. One is the timing hole, the other one was for the oldschool diagnostic computer that VW used to use.

[MissHood]

Nope, not missing anything. One is the timing hole, the other one was for the oldschool diagnostic computer that VW used to use.

oohhh, cool. Good to hear that it's supost to really be that way!

[B4S]

The vanes on the converter are what you're seeing, it acts like a fan to bring in cool air. VW's idea of transmission cooling, although it's not the most efficient way of doing it.

As for the clunky shifts, somewhere on the first page I uploaded a PDF of a factory 010 troubleshooting manual I got at a swap meet, it's invaluable for figuring out the issues these boxes have when they get old .

[Rabbit6]

While we're on the topic, my auto has always had a bit of a tendency to clunk into gear at times. P-D, P-R, D-P and R-P are all fine and pretty quiet, but there's often a good clunk going from R-D, mostly just when the car is at operating temp and idling high (~1050). Mounts are in good shape, suspension is flawless, transmission works perfectly. I've just always wondered. What do you figure, Rabbit6?

If I were to take a stab at guessing, I'd think the brake pad slop. Reverse and brake puts all slop in one direction. Switching to D reverses torque direction, and all slop bangs against the opposite 'stop' If the brake pad carrier/pad interface is worn, the pads would be banging back and forth as they travel across their range of slop. Another similar possibility is CV joint slop. Add a little brake slop to a little CV slop and I can imagine it being quite noticeable, not that either singularly wouldn't be.

[Rabbit6]

hey, how is everyone? hopefully I dont ask some silly noob question but I just picked up this 92 cabriolet with an 010 that shifts poorly, amoung other lack of power issues. I'm trying to get this thing running good, I got a smokin deal on it. here is my question, do these trans have an rear main seal? im trying to find the torque spec. the gear engagement is delayed in upshifting. k thanks

Hi and welcome.

"rear Main seal" typically refers the the dynamic oil seal on the 'big end' of the crankshaft, as opposed to the smaller 'front main seal' at the timing belt end of the crank. The rear main seal is accessible only by removing the transmission. If you have a leaky rear main seal (it happens) the oil may follow gravity's influence and drip dutifully from the lowest point of the bell housing (large round section of the transmission which bolts to the engine-- sorry if i'm being unnecessarily specific).
However due to the fairly wild airflow patterns within the bellhousing (refer to above notes about cooling fins on the torque converter's exterior), not to mention centrifugal force flinging the oil off the flex plate if it follows that route instead, the oil may be dripping from an unexpected location. Possibly also, only while driving. One good thing is, as long as fluids aren't intermixing, they're usually pretty easy to tell apart. Engine oil will be some shade between fresh gold and old black, and not have much of a smell. Automatic transmission fluid has a distinct smell and is some shade between fresh red and old brown. Brown ATF smells burnt compared to fresh. Gear oil, from the final drive/differential housing will remain between gold and light brown, though it may have a metallic appearance due to suspended metal particulate (gear wear) and smells quite bad. These all assume the fluid hasn't picked up filth along it's drip path and changed color as a result.

The transmission itself has a few different seals in the bellhousing area which may leak with age or damage. Determining the fluid type will help give an idea of what may be leaking.

As a general rule of thumb, the first attempt to solve problems with an auto is to change it's fluid. The concept is similar to an engine oil change, though it need not be performed quite as often. (unless you're holding 15psi of boost on the brakes at the dragstrip's light tree every weekend, of course)
It's a straightforward process, but you'll need a couple things. For the first time around, a transmission oil filter kit would be a good thing to have. It's basically the pan gasket and a new screen. From that point onward, you can just clean the screen and change just the gasket. It would be wise to have the appropriate sized torque wrench to re-tighten the screen screw, as it would be unfortunate to have it come loose or get snapped off by over-tightening.
While the pan is off and catch bucket placed below, start the engine and cycle up and down through all the gears a couple times. This, naturally, would be performed with the parking brake set and the foot brake depressed. This process will allow more of the old fluid trapped withing the torque converter and valve body etc to be ejected. You won't get it all, so don't spend too much time running the engine. This ejecting process should take under 15 seconds. Reassemble and follow manual directions for ensuring proper fluid level.
A fresh charge of fluid and make a big difference all by itself. Try this first, then go from there.

[A2TDI]

NEEDED! 100MM drive cups for the 010! let me know what you have.

[MissHood]

Hi and welcome.

"rear Main seal" typically refers the the dynamic oil seal on the 'big end' of the crankshaft, as opposed to the smaller 'front main seal' at the timing belt end of the crank. The rear main seal is accessible only by removing the transmission. If you have a leaky rear main seal (it happens) the oil may follow gravity's influence and drip dutifully from the lowest point of the bell housing (large round section of the transmission which bolts to the engine-- sorry if i'm being unnecessarily specific).
However due to the fairly wild airflow patterns within the bellhousing (refer to above notes about cooling fins on the torque converter's exterior), not to mention centrifugal force flinging the oil off the flex plate if it follows that route instead, the oil may be dripping from an unexpected location. Possibly also, only while driving. One good thing is, as long as fluids aren't intermixing, they're usually pretty easy to tell apart. Engine oil will be some shade between fresh gold and old black, and not have much of a smell. Automatic transmission fluid has a distinct smell and is some shade between fresh red and old brown. Brown ATF smells burnt compared to fresh. Gear oil, from the final drive/differential housing will remain between gold and light brown, though it may have a metallic appearance due to suspended metal particulate (gear wear) and smells quite bad. These all assume the fluid hasn't picked up filth along it's drip path and changed color as a result.

The transmission itself has a few different seals in the bellhousing area which may leak with age or damage. Determining the fluid type will help give an idea of what may be leaking.

As a general rule of thumb, the first attempt to solve problems with an auto is to change it's fluid. The concept is similar to an engine oil change, though it need not be performed quite as often. (unless you're holding 15psi of boost on the brakes at the dragstrip's light tree every weekend, of course)
It's a straightforward process, but you'll need a couple things. For the first time around, a transmission oil filter kit would be a good thing to have. It's basically the pan gasket and a new screen. From that point onward, you can just clean the screen and change just the gasket. It would be wise to have the appropriate sized torque wrench to re-tighten the screen screw, as it would be unfortunate to have it come loose or get snapped off by over-tightening.
While the pan is off and catch bucket placed below, start the engine and cycle up and down through all the gears a couple times. This, naturally, would be performed with the parking brake set and the foot brake depressed. This process will allow more of the old fluid trapped withing the torque converter and valve body etc to be ejected. You won't get it all, so don't spend too much time running the engine. This ejecting process should take under 15 seconds. Reassemble and follow manual directions for ensuring proper fluid level.
A fresh charge of fluid and make a big difference all by itself. Try this first, then go from there.

hey, finally got around to changing the ATF, and slift Alot better. Thanks alot for All the info about changing it, came in handy

[A2TDI]

well for all of you that gave up on this silly little transmission I finally proved that it can handle some pretty serious power. I hit the dyno on friday and made 431 wheel hp and 336 wheel torque.

dyno vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El8Bf...1&feature=plcp

[B4S]

Nice!!!

[Rabbit6]

So what you're saying is, you can actually feed these little b!tches at least 480-500 HP. (guess you got that input shaft engagement problem sorted)
Sweeet!

[B4S]

This means someone MUST want my manual VB and pump flower...CHEAP!

[DirtyfaceDan]

I have and 83 auto diesel Rabbit, NA. Great little bunny. Cheap and fun to run, Anyone can drive it. Way more fun than my ugly Jetta. I have an extra 86 (rare i read) gasser auto final drive. I should prob save it for my bunny, but i was wondering....What's needed to convert the gasser 010 transmission to a diesel, as the shifts are different RPM? Rebuilding autobox's is something I have always steered clear of, but it's worth a shot.

[B4S]

Swap the governors, and possibly the valvebody too. That's it .

[A2TDI]

I have a new personal best quarter mile time with this trans in my jetta... 11.28 at 129 mph! wooohoooo love this little transmission!

[A2TDI]

latest update if anyone cares anymore lol...transmission started slipping in all forward gears and in reverse when wot is acheived..im thinking it a line pressure problem but im open to other guess's

[chris24f22]

does anyone know where to buy all the clutch packs new or clutch packs rebuild kits? pm me or email me at chris24f22@gmail.com PLEASE HELP

[Rabbit6]

readily available pretty well anywhere decent that sells parts.
for example:
http://www.bestpricecarparts.ca/item...al&weight=3.90

[bentetzner]

Hi,
Where did you find a repair manual for this transmission?

If anyone out there is interested, I figure it might be nice to have a place to put all the snippets of info that have been floating around about the 010. I know a few of us really like that box...but we all only have a small piece of the puzzle. I recently bought a nice little factory 010 troubleshooting manual at a swap meet, and there are some interesting bits in it. Here's the link to download a PDF:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/tchaa...e.pdf

It's a pretty secretive topic, the 010, but maybe it's finally time to let the world know what a few of us already do. I'll be updating this with as much info as I can find/have already, in order to further the research. I've got information about changing the shift points, a nice rebuild manual, and pictures of a box torn down. I'll also look in to cross-referencing the various boxes for useful parts that can be swapped...but that might be a big task for one guy.

Cheers all...and if you care, share, please .

[B4S]

Uh, the manuals are in the links in the post you quoted...

Are they gone?

The rebuild manual I bought was actually useless, since it was just reprints of the info available in the Audi 4000/Audi 5000/VW Mk1 bentley manuals.

[bentetzner]

Hi,
Where did you find the repair manual for this tranny, and does it cover the automatic section in detail? The manual section is pretty easy.
Benhttp://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/smile.gif

[B4S]

I replied above you...