The 010 Lost Knowledge Thread

[LA7VJetta]

No, but if the basic, run-of-the mill shifter works...then the ratcheting ones will too .

good, i like ratcheting shifters.

[B4S]

Well, it's finally time for me to suck it up and build an 010 for myself. I degreased and pressure-washed a TNA code box (Mk2) I got for free, and now I reek of chemical cleaner. I figure I'll try out the accumulator delete, add ports for a cooler, and try to get a few more clutches in those drums .

I don't really need a crazy-tough box, seeing as how I'm running a dual-carbed 1.8 8v...but hey, might as well give it a shot .

[Richard_Cranium]

so i am now looking at this option

and you know what i want to do..... so if you find any parts extra, LMK.

[B4S]

Will do. As I strip it down, I'll post photos. I'm going with mostly-stock internals, but I might order a few things from transaxleengineering.com and IPT.com. The Audi 5000 turbo boxes came with 5 clutches up front and 5 or 4 clutches in the rear, and those are heavy cars...so it should grab nicely with 5/5 in my Mk1 .

Don't abandon your other project, since it's already built...but you'll see that the internals are awfully similar to what's in the 010 (more or less).

[B4S]

Just got an email back from IPT.com, they can convert the VB to full-manual too. I'll possibly be shipping my VB off to them shortly, since the strip-down has started. Two options for manual valve bodies...this just keeps getting better .

[LA7VJetta]

Just got an email back from IPT.com, they can convert the VB to full-manual too. I'll possibly be shipping my VB off to them shortly, since the strip-down has started. Two options for manual valve bodies...this just keeps getting better .

how much is it through them? i was quoted like $400 from transaxle engineering

[Richard_Cranium]

what about transbrake????

and who builds the converters???

i will be doing the extreme end of things, so i will do the WILD build

[B4S]

how much is it through them? i was quoted like $400 from transaxle engineering

Waiting for a response. Either way, I'm going full manual, no matter the cost. I love hard-shifting automatics.

I haven't researched converters or anything like that, but I think IPT can do it too. Their full name is Import Performance Transmissions, and they have a LOT for the Mk3 and up auto boxes, so the old stuff should be cake (fingers crossed). Their DSM stuff is top notch, got a few friends running their shift kits into the 10s .

[B4S]

Got the response already!
It would be $475 and I have to ship them my VB. He says it's a three-day turnaround, which is pretty good IMO. I was quoted around $500 from transaxle engineering, no core required, so it seems the pricing is fair. I'll probably give IPT a try, he also said that at the power levels I'm going to be running (150whp or so, in the future), no other mods are needed to the box.

I'm starting to get really stoked...

[Richard_Cranium]

cool. i have been on IPT mail list for about 3 yrs now

talked alot with them about auto trans's.....

[LA7VJetta]

well, when my trans finally gives out, its getting a manual VB then.

[Richard_Cranium]

and diff? spool? weld it up?

what R&P ratio's are available?

i found a motor/trans for $95 complete, semi local. dunno if i want to drive to get it.

[B4S]

Unfortunately, the only desireable R&P/final drive is from the 85-86 Golf/jetta boxes coded "TJ". It has a 3.12 final drive, which would push it into the 140+mph territory (on stock sized tires) at the end of the 1/4. The MkII boxes are all 3.41, and the Mk1 boxes are 3.76. Third gear is always 1.00. You'll really have to play with slick sizing to get the right gearing, because there isn't much choice available in regards to mix-n-match.

Ah, something else: the stock flexplate is pretty beefy looking, with a thick reinforcement where the converter pads mount, but there are only three feet. It's probably a good idea to look into adding a fourth or fifth pad to the converter, and beefing up the center section. The turbo dodge guys tear the centers out fairly frequently.

[LA7VJetta]

Unfortunately, the only desireable R&P/final drive is from the 85-86 Golf/jetta boxes coded "TJ". It has a 3.12 final drive, which would push it into the 140+mph territory (on stock sized tires) at the end of the 1/4. The MkII boxes are all 3.41, and the Mk1 boxes are 3.76. Third gear is always 1.00. You'll really have to play with slick sizing to get the right gearing, because there isn't much choice available in regards to mix-n-match.

i happen to have a TJ box in mine

[B4S]

Started the build:

-After a can of degreaser, and a pressure-washer rampage:


-Pulled the diff cover off to drain the fluid and take a peek:


-Ring gear seems to be BOLTED on...:


-The diff cover (comes complete with mounts for Mk1 and Mk2 boxes):


-Valve body/underbelly:



I'm building up a TNA code box (Mk2), since I got it free. The ATF didn't smell burnt at all, both fluids came out clean and clear, and I found traces of anti-seize on the pan bolts. It has to have been serviced semi-regularly, so this is good . I'm going to have to strip down my Mk1 box for it's 90mm flanges, since this box comes with 100s...and I don't feel like buying new axles and grinding my early knuckles.

[B4S]

Preliminary measurements (done on the drums from a Mk2 diesel auto that I disassembled a long time ago) show that it'll be simple to add more clutches to both drums. I'm confused by VWs clearances though, they seem VERY loose vs. the turbo dodge stuff I'm more familiar with. I know if the packs are too tight, then it could drag quite a bit in neutral...but tighter clutches means sharper shifts (sorta). I'm mixing and matching parts, so my measurements could be off a bit (using front clutches in rear drum, etc)...fingers crossed it goes better when I take my TNA apart.

I've also thought about experimenting a bit with the 1-2 and 2-3 shift valves, shimming them slightly to make the shifts quicker...although that's purely guesswork.

[B4S]

I've added some more technical documents/rebuild manuals to my webspace, here's the link:

010 Documentation

There is a file in there titled "A413 Tranny Performance Upgrades", and that is about the typical Turbo Dodge automatic. There are no reasons why we can't use the same mods they do, except for the fact that the 010 isn't as well plotted-out. It's a no-brainer to add clutches and steels, and the valve bodies do have mostly the same devices in them (as do most fluid-controlled autos). No reason their mods wouldn't work for us.

[B4S]

Got the extra clutch installed in the forward drum, easy peasy. It would have been a lot more difficult if I didn't have any spare parts though, some hunting for the right thicknesses of shims/steels/etc would be necessary. I lucked out and managed to get everything within spec. I only did the forward drum, since the direct drum already had 4 clutches, and is only active during and after the 2-3 shift. I figured the forward drum could make due with another clutch, since it's always 'on'.

...and of course, after I get everything back together, making a huge mess of ATF on my garage floor...the turbine shaft won't seat properly . It's all got to come apart tomorrow so I can make sure nothing's binding/broken.

Sigh.

[B4S]

Went out to the garage before work (6:30am) and separated the case AGAIN. Turbine shaft is seated perfectly now .

Now...valve body time.

[edit] I snapped some pics of the disassembly, but was so frustrated last night I didn't upload them to the PC . I can put them up tonight, and take some pics of what I did to the forward drum to show how to do the 5 clutch mod.

[B4S]

Forward drum, stock:


Stock clutchpack:


Modded clutchpack (important to retain proper clearances, measure twice):


As you can see, it's cake. That thick pressure plate goes at the 'top' of the stack, under the circlip. You have to grind/machine off the excess in order to squeeze the extra clutch/steel in there...or you can trim a bit off the bottom plate as well as the top plate. I tore down a TD 010 last year and happened to have the spare parts lying around, and was lucky enough to be able to use the TD forward drum lower plate, which is a two piece vs. the TNA single. It's also a lot thinner . I was able to get away with using a regular steel plate for the pressure plate, which is a common mod for the dodge A413, so I figured I wouldn't have anything to worry about. Time will tell I guess .

[B4S]

Ridiculous question time: which side of the flexplate does the thicker spacer go on? It's been a while since I've done an 010 install, and this is on a car that wasn't originally automatic. It's going to suck if I have to keep putting the box on and taking it off in order to get the spacing right...

[B4S]

^^^
Bueller?

Pulled the axle stubs/90mm flanges from an old Mk1 box, to swap them onto the TNA box. Did it the easy way this time, pulled the diff cover off and popped the c-clips off to pull the whole assembly out. No springs, just flanges bolted to stubs, interesting. I had to order new 90mm flange seals, since the 100mm ones are a different design, and the 90mm manual boxes have a slightly smaller seal...so it won't fit the 010. Two drive axle flange repair kits are on their way to my preferred local VW dealer, from Fort Worth, Texas. I'm thinking the stock of the early 010 90mm flange kits are getting pretty thin, hopefully I don't screw the install up.

[LA7VJetta]

any of you want a TJ trans?

[B4S]

Don't tempt me, lol.

Spent a bit of time on it tonight, while waiting for the new seals. I was concerned that I wouldn't be able to retrofit the early 90mm flanges (non-spring-loaded), since I know you can't in the 85+ 020 manual boxes. Turns out you can, all hail the bean counters at VW! To convert to the 100mm flanges in the automatic, they went to a pressed-steel 'cup'/diff-holder (vs. the cast 90mm one) that had more clearance for the bigger flange, and used the usual green spacer/seal combo as in the 020s (except with a 60mm bore vs. the 020's 58mm.

They used the same 010 case for as long as they used it in their FWD cars, makes flange choices a LOT more extensive . I'm giving up any sort of diff lock though, since my flanges are the solid ones, but that's ok with me. A properly corner-balanced car will allow the diff to work properly anyway (to a point). Maybe one day I'll convert to the larger flanges to take advantage of the shim kits out there...but it's not likely.

I'm not so sure about the manual valve body anymore, I've got to start prepping the daily for winter duties, so $500 would be better spent on a new set of hakkas and a tuneup. The throttle valve setup might be difficult to work around though, due to my carb linkage needing more throw than the stock TB. Hmmmm.

[LA7VJetta]

you sure? it just sitting doing nothing............

[B4S]

...where are you located?
Perhaps my arm could be twisted...

[LA7VJetta]

...where are you located?
Perhaps my arm could be twisted...

Latrobe, PA. it still needs pulled out of the car, but that is no problem

[B4S]

Thinkin' hard about that .

No progress for the moment, still waiting on the drive flange seals to arrive. Bought myself a nice new Dewalt corded drill though, in order to tap the case for cooler ports. A bit overkill...but it'd be tough to get the box up onto my standing drillpress, lol.

Starting to get the 'will this stupid thing work' jitters. I hate not knowing if I've put everything together properly, although there are SERIOUSLY no parts to the inside of these boxes. It's like lego. I hate waiting .

[LA7VJetta]

yeah, i mean when some gives you a 5 speed for practically free, you think hard about ditching the automatic.

[B4S]

Phone call to IPT: "Who told you we could make them fully manual?"



Transaxle engineering won't answer their phone. WTF is going on with the world today. I've got money burning a hole in my pocket, and nobody wants it.

[LA7VJetta]

Phone call to IPT: "Who told you we could make them fully manual?"



Transaxle engineering won't answer their phone. WTF is going on with the world today. I've got money burning a hole in my pocket, and nobody wants it.

he is online right now, send him a email
♫
transaxleengineering@gmail.com

[B4S]

Yeah, just did, a few minutes back. No reply.

I'm ready to drop the coin, why won't someone answer the damn phone.

[LA7VJetta]

huh, he answered real fast when I talked to him before

[B4S]

How can you tell he's online?

I'm a very impatient person, so this isn't helping my motivation any. In today's day and age, not having a proper web-sales website, or a non-generic email account, is pretty dumb. I'm almost ready to call off this whole project, since I'm only into it for $60. That's how impatient I am. I have no time to wait for folks who won't answer their phone when it's the only way they make non-local sales.

[LA7VJetta]

How can you tell he's online?

I'm a very impatient person, so this isn't helping my motivation any. In today's day and age, not having a proper web-sales website, or a non-generic email account, is pretty dumb. I'm almost ready to call off this whole project, since I'm only into it for $60. That's how impatient I am. I have no time to wait for folks who won't answer their phone when it's the only way they make non-local sales.

he is in my contacts in GMail, and it said a little while ago that he was online, says offline now.

yeah i know it sucks dude.