The 010 Lost Knowledge Thread

[B4S]

Just sent another email.
If I can't reach them by the end of monday, I'm buying engine management, a 4 puck clutch, and tossing my autobox in the trash. An automatic without a manual valve body is no good to me, since that's what I thought I could get. It's going to be a loooooooooooong weekend .

[LA7VJetta]

Just sent another email.
If I can't reach them by the end of monday, I'm buying engine management, a 4 puck clutch, and tossing my autobox in the trash. An automatic without a manual valve body is no good to me, since that's what I thought I could get. It's going to be a loooooooooooong weekend .

you need a hug? im sorry I had to. good luck

[VWtuner-nl]

good, i like ratcheting shifters.

I`m using a ratchet shifter, but I had to lengthen the input lever a few milimeters.
Otherwise the patterns wouldn`t match.

But it works perfekt.

Martijn.

[B4S]

you need a hug? im sorry I had to. good luck

lol, yeah, I'm being a douche, I know. I've waited all week to order this stupid thing and now I can't. I'm a bit disappointed. It sucks to think that if I ever have a problem with the vb, that the company would be hard to reach for tech support...since they don't seem to answer their phone. This is the problem with a 'global' marketplace IMO. Do I necessarily feel comfortable spending that much money on something, when I can't reach the company to ask them a question or place my order? Same goes for IPT, if one guy says I can get a full manual vb for $475, and the other guy says "no way", but they can build me a firm-shift version of the stocker for $475...not inspiring confidence in me.

I'm not a hard core drag racer any more, but a 'stock' automatic still doesn't cut it. If I want firm shifts, I'll delete the accumulator and increase the line pressure a bit, instead of spending $475, and waiting two weeks.

[LA7VJetta]

i hear you man, hope they respond to you!

[B4S]

Found a nice powerpoint that shows how the VB of a torqueflite 727 works, which is a simple 3 spd hydro box like the 010. It's been very informative. I'd like to figure out which are the feed holes for 1-2 and 2-3 shift valves in the 010 valve body transfer plate, I'd like to experiment with enlarging them to firm up the shifts. Wish I had a spare VB .

[Richard_Cranium]

grab that TJ then, and play

[LA7VJetta]

Found a nice powerpoint that shows how the VB of a torqueflite 727 works, which is a simple 3 spd hydro box like the 010. It's been very informative. I'd like to figure out which are the feed holes for 1-2 and 2-3 shift valves in the 010 valve body transfer plate, I'd like to experiment with enlarging them to firm up the shifts. Wish I had a spare VB .

you can have a whole trans.

what that dude said^

[B4S]

I just have to drive to PA, lol.

I'd have to see if I could talk the wife into a road trip...could be interesting

[Richard_Cranium]

if that shizzle was withing 3-400 miles of me, for free, i'd drive it. whats a day?

[B4S]

It's finding a free day that's the problem . The 'booked-by-wife' weekends are thick until the snow flies. I've been doing some reading and found this:


It's using a VW automatic...

[Richard_Cranium]

damn you!!!!!!!

111mph in the 1/8th is what i trap for 10.05 @ 138 in the 1/4!!!!!

[B4S]

If you go back a ways...apparently the Pizzo brothers used VW 3 speeds too....
You'll want to read this, VERY good info:
http://www.cal-look.com/forum/vw-dra...in-a-race-car/

[Richard_Cranium]

damn. bring them into it too

[LA7VJetta]

i am not against shipping by the way.

[B4S]

Well, depending on how my current experimentation goes...might take you up on all that .

Today, while poking around in the garage, I decided to start with a modded stock VB instead of the full manual. The turbo dodge crowd (and the GM/Dodge/Ford guys for that matter) all seem to have a 'starting point' for shift mods. Increasing the size of the 1-2 and 2-3 shift feed holes in the separator plate, deleting the accumulator, and increasing the line pressure. I did the first two today, the third is trickier since the VB seems to have multiple adjustment screws...and I don't know which one does what. Here's the pics of today's action:

Bone stock, virgin VB


VB split in half, ALWAYS PULL IT APART WITH THE VB PORTION ON THE WORKBENCH! You'll be picking up check balls and trying to put them back in if you don't .


The separator plate, the two 'alleged' feed holes. I have zero idea if they're the right ones, but by working the fluid path back in my head, comparing to the location of the 1-2 and 2-3 shift valves, I made a jump in logic and got my drill out. The holes were ~0.040" in size, and I drilled them out to 3/32". A LOT larger, mainly to see what happens . The possible 2-3 feed hole also feeds the kickdown valve, so I think I'm on the right track. I don't recommend trying this just yet, I can't promise it will work.


Now, the accumulator delete. Rabbit6 already posted up how to block ONE of the holes, but there is a second that needs plugging as well. If you look at the first pic, the top right portion of the VB is where the accumulator piston goes. You'll see three screws and one hole, on the top right corner. This hole is what feeds the inside of the accumulator piston, the Rabbit6 mod only blocks the feed to the top/outside of the piston. This means that there is a large cavity that is now filling and draining, I think. There is an easy way to block this hole, since you can leave the piston out if you're deleting it. You can either make a new plate, that's slightly larger on the one side...or you can ghetto it up like I did. I took the stock plate, and welded a 'bump' onto it to plug the hole. It's not pretty...but it works .




Now...the line pressure problem. The two visible adjustment screws are the main pressure limiting screw, and the intermediate pressure limiting screw. The main pressure screw is hidden under the plate, so I'd assume it's not the one to adjust. To increase the pressure, you turn the screws COUNTER-CLOCKWISE, trust me. I added two turns to the main pressure limiter screw (the one on the left), but I think I'll undo it in order to get a baseline. I can't check the pressure, so I'll have to go by the seat of the pants when I get the car running. I'm not sure if by turning the screw CC that I LIMIT the pressure going to the VB or if I increase it, so for now it stays stock.


The car is up on stands, so the minute I get my axle seals, I'll start the swap. Next week should be good .

[B4S]

I'm now torn. I had a nice conversation with Jeff at transaxle engineering today, and he let me know a few things about a 'built' box. To use their manual VB, upgrading the pump drive is a must (like Mr.Tickles said a few pages back), because at WOT the vb runs 130-140 psi of line pressure vs. the stock ~90. The stock pump drive is made of powdered metal, so it doesn't last long. As well, the stock clutches are paper-based, so he recommended Raybestos ones (which he has in stock) that are metal-based. I'll be calling back on thursday, after I've thought about my project a bit more. I'm happy with the thought of my stock/bumped-up box, but the lure of a strong 010 is hard to resist.

I really don't want to take that box apart again, lol.

[LA7VJetta]

I'm now torn. I had a nice conversation with Jeff at transaxle engineering today, and he let me know a few things about a 'built' box. To use their manual VB, upgrading the pump drive is a must (like Mr.Tickles said a few pages back), because at WOT the vb runs 130-140 psi of line pressure vs. the stock ~90. The stock pump drive is made of powdered metal, so it doesn't last long. As well, the stock clutches are paper-based, so he recommended Raybestos ones (which he has in stock) that are metal-based. I'll be calling back on thursday, after I've thought about my project a bit more. I'm happy with the thought of my stock/bumped-up box, but the lure of a strong 010 is hard to resist.

I really don't want to take that box apart again, lol.

so you heard from him? cool

[B4S]

Yeah, I got an email from him on the weekend (ok, that's pretty cool for a business to do), and called him this morning (well, afternoon for me). The pump drives are out of stock right now, but more will arrive on thursday, so I'll call back then and order my goodies. I just got finished stripping the box down again, I love how easy it is, lol. I figure I'll order all the stuff I need to make a kick ass 010, might as well go big while I'm in there. I don't know if I'll do the 5" direct drum, but I suppose I'll talk to Jeff about that on thursday. I've got to remember to ask him about the turbine shaft too, to see if he thinks it's a weak link or not.

[LA7VJetta]

no MVB then?

[B4S]

I'm going to get the MVB, but I'll try out my DIY shiftkit one too. It's going to be an expensive week, lol

[LA7VJetta]

[B4S]

The '3-4 working day' wait for my drive axle seals has turned into 'huh, wonder why they're taking so long' . I hate ordering from the dealership.

[LA7VJetta]

[Richard_Cranium]

so, i am still here in the background. if you get this thing sorted out and strong, you know i will be interested in one built for me, right?

this way you can get some form of compensation (aside from the satisfaction of doing it yourself) for your hard work and R&D.....

[B4S]

Hadn't thought of that, lol. I just like sharing the stuff I learn for the betterment of the community. I guess if it works, we'll have to talk, lol.

Tomorrow is the day I order everything: VB, kevlar band, metal-based clutches, chromoly pump drive, and probably anything else I get talked into .

[B4S]

This project might get back-burnered for a while, sorry everyone. Winter's coming and I need to get the daily prepped for the icy commute. I'm still waiting for my drive flange seals, which at this point seem like a fantasy that'll never happen. For now, I'm going to concentrate on the motor I'm building for the car, which I just picked up last night. Since everyone is having such success with ABAs and E85 lately...I'm going to give it a shot too. Grabbed an OBD1 ABA last night, and some sweet oldschool SDS goodness. If I could find a DECENT mitsubishi-flanged turbo, I'd be ready to go (made a manifold for a 14b a while back, turbo was pooched, removed and went back to carbs).

Hold tight everyone, keep checking back, I'm not abandoning anything .

[B4S]

I have a disease. It's called Auto-itis.
Today I ordered my manual VB, chromoly pump drive, kevlar band, and Jeff at Transaxle Engineering was kind enough to throw in the early drive axle seals that I need as a freebie (since VW has no idea where the ones I ordered three weeks ago are ). They're coming UPS Ground, so I'll have to pay through the nose to pick up the box at the depot...but hey, I'll worry about that later .

He filled in a few gaps too, in regards to shifters and such. An aftermarket shifter designed for a TH400 will be a perfect match for the gates in the 010. He also mentioned that it's a really good idea to tighten up the clearances in the direct drum, he's seen it wear a groove in the pump 'shaft' that it rests on (in stock setting). I'll see if I can add a 5th clutch tonight .

The valve body is a stock unit, modified, but the separator plate and distribution plate are completely new items. The dist plate is cut out of billet! . This should be an interesting project...

[LA7VJetta]

i may not go 5 speed after all.

[B4S]

It's funny, because as I was starting the mock-up of all the turbo stuff on the engine destined for my Rabbit...I couldn't bring myself to buy a clutch for it. A decent clutch/pp combo from Bully (local to me, I've run some prototype VW stuff for them in the past, good guys) would set me back almost as much as the VB/pump drive/band/etc. Figured it'd be easier to build the DP too, with the auto on, since the starter is in the back anyway. I'll be making a beefy heat shield, that's for sure. I don't want any of the heat-soak-no-start conditions with this one (my Mk1 G60 010 used to leave me stranded at times, while I waited for the starter to cool down, lol).

[LA7VJetta]

It's funny, because as I was starting the mock-up of all the turbo stuff on the engine destined for my Rabbit...I couldn't bring myself to buy a clutch for it. A decent clutch/pp combo from Bully (local to me, I've run some prototype VW stuff for them in the past, good guys) would set me back almost as much as the VB/pump drive/band/etc. Figured it'd be easier to build the DP too, with the auto on, since the starter is in the back anyway. I'll be making a beefy heat shield, that's for sure. I don't want any of the heat-soak-no-start conditions with this one (my Mk1 G60 010 used to leave me stranded at times, while I waited for the starter to cool down, lol).

way I see it

Trans= $100
everything to hook it up=$200
clutch=?

may as well build the Auto

[B4S]

Well, time will tell if my direct clutches are too tight. I added a fifth clutch into the pack, cutting the clearance down from 2.3mm to 0.88mm. This is with the 2.0mm circlip, so I might splurge and get a thinner one from VW to bump my endplay up to 1.0mm or 1.2mm...just to be on the safe side. I neglected to ask Jeff at Transaxle what his suggested measurement is, ah well. Looks like I'm experimenting a bit .

As long as the turbine shaft isn't a weak point, I think I've got a box that can handle some decent power here: 5 clutches forward drum, 5 clutches rear drum (stock Mk1 is 3/3, stock Mk2 is 4/4, and Audi 5000 turbo is 5/5 with a larger direct drum), tight clearances, manual valve body, kevlar band, chromoly pump drive, and a whole lot of crossed fingers .

[newto20v]

i want one of those 5000 auto trans's, FWd.

or anything strong and auto.

still hanging around waitin on this stuff

[B4S]

Next year I'll definitely be hunting down a 5000 box to rebuild. 4 pinion planetary, larger diameter direct drum, built in ports for a cooler (not a huge deal to drill and tap, but hey...OE upgrades).

[newto20v]

i think after putting a feeler out yesterday, i may have 3 of them available to me

but they advise i go with newer, and run the megasquirt trans controller. another thing to look into.