06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS...

[turbodub]

ok few questions.
stock avh crank is cast right? what do i need for forged? fsi? aeg?
the arp head studs are special right?
is there a oem timing belt?
thats all for now im sure there's more but cant think right now

[duke_seb]

just posting and update for all the 16v guys

alright more to show..... I havent connected anything on the rad support yet.... I still have a couple things I need to address prior to reconnecting everything but everything on the motor is ready to go... minus one coolant hose that im waiting on the dealer for.

all my clearances look good... there are a couple welded in screws on the firewall that will hit the turbo when the motor moves but with them cut out I should have about 2-3 inches clearance all around the turbo I will probably run more sheild up the firewall... the only spot that i dont trully like is where the turbo is positioned referencing the A/C lines..... the air intake part of the turbo is going to have to make a hard 90 in order to clear it...... Im hoping I can get it done

I realised a couple days ago that using this 16V scirocco intake just isnt going to jive and I realised today how much more of the pain it would be to use it..... I litterally have no space between the TB and the air filter...... I know i can delete it and I probably will but after that and some interference from the coils and the oil cap Ive decided to go with a shortrunner intake .... should have it a lot easier on the intercooler piping aswell

I also got my TT exhaust all in..... next weekend RabbitMan and I are going to get the downpipe and cat welded in....... and then move on to the intercooler piping

here are some pictures

and jamie throwing some caffine in the car

car is starting to look like a car again.... cant wait to get her going again

[elRey]

Quote, originally posted by turbodub »

ok few questions. stock avh crank is cast right? what do i need for forged? fsi? aeg? the arp head studs are special right? is there a oem timing belt? thats all for now im sure there's more but cant think right now

FSI is an option. All mk4 2.0L cranks are cast.
As far as I know Issam is the only source for the ARP head studs
timing belt: I used a 2004 LEXUS GS300 L6 3.0 Liter FI belt with the stock mk4 2.0L tensioner. I believe the mechanical tensioner for the 1.8T is a better option.

duke_seb, what did you end up using for timing?

[duke_seb]

I was planning on using the 1.8t tensioner setup but couldn't get it to work because I couldn't find a belt the right size...... The Lexus one is 144 teeth..... The 1.8t was 150..... I found one at napa that was 147 teeth still to long ... It's either 145 or 146 and I didn't know where to get kne so I opted for the 16v tensioner spaced out with the transverse cam gear

[turbodub]

Quote, originally posted by elRey »

FSI is an option. All mk4 2.0L cranks are cast. As far as I know Issam is the only source for the ARP head studs timing belt: I used a 2004 LEXUS GS300 L6 3.0 Liter FI belt with the stock mk4 2.0L tensioner. I believe the mechanical tensioner for the 1.8T is a better option. duke_seb, what did you end up using for timing?

i would deff want to use a mechanical tensioner! and if using the mechanical one can a 9a 16v belt be used? from what i can see the fsi crank is the way to go. oh how about main bolts?

[duke_seb]

one thing i found out about the lexus belt and the 1.8T tensioner is that the tensioner is just a little too skinny.......if oyu lay it on top you can see it has a 3 mm gap underneath

[Issam Abed]

Quote, originally posted by elRey »

FSI is an option. All mk4 2.0L cranks are cast. As far as I know Issam is the only source for the ARP head studs timing belt: I used a 2004 LEXUS GS300 L6 3.0 Liter FI belt with the stock mk4 2.0L tensioner. I believe the mechanical tensioner for the 1.8T is a better option. duke_seb, what did you end up using for timing?

Rey,
The cast 92.8mm cranks are only in North America but yes you are right.
ARP head studs are special yes

as for the timing belt,I will be showcasing a couple of options shortly.

[turbodub]

Quote, originally posted by Issam Abed »

Rey, The cast 92.8mm cranks are only in North America but yes you are right. ARP head studs are special yes as for the timing belt,I will be showcasing a couple of options shortly.

and camgear as well?

[Issam Abed]

Quote, originally posted by turbodub »

and camgear as well?

Yes

[Spooled20v]

Quote, originally posted by Justin 123 »

I'm getting an AEB block shortly to try this out. This is going to be a slow, as time and money allow, build. I'd like to run a TDI crank with 83.5mm (or bigger if safe) pistons. I need to see if anyone makes stroker 16v pistons or if they have to be made. Ideally I'd like 2.2L at 12:1 compression in an 06x block with a 16V head and MLS head gasket.

FYI An AEB block is not a 06x block it is a 058 block with an external waterpump, intermediate shaft driven oil pump and 11mm head bolts. Different bag o tricks altogether to what this thread is about.

[turbodub]

any more info on the belt, tensioner, gear situation?

[skidmarkus]

issam any updates on the cnc'd parts?

[duke_seb]

i think he stopped making them...

realised that building a MKIV 16V is nothing but a pain in the ass

jk

read my sig thread for updates

[Issam Abed]

Quote, originally posted by skidmarkus »

issam any updates on the cnc'd parts?

Just waiting for them to come in and then I update.

[skidmarkus]

duke you know i watch your thread all day, i envy you and your bev. and issam lets get this ball rollin, my 8v still way too slow. alot of these tonight

[franque]

Just out of curiosity, how similar are the mounting bolts from an 058 (or is the audi 1.8t block an 06A?) and an 06x? I might try an 06x 16v into a B3q Audi if they are similar.


Modified by franque at 3:13 PM 12-18-2009

[Issam Abed]

Quote, originally posted by franque »

Just out of curiosity, how similar are the mounting bolts from an 058 (or is the audi 1.8t block an 06A?) and an 06x? I might try an 06x 16v into a B3q Audi if they are similar.

COmpletely different
If you need 06A mounting brackets for a B2/B3/B4 I have them now - 450 USD for the pair.

[Justin 123]

Quote, originally posted by Issam Abed »

ALH 95.5 does fit in the 06A block .ALH motor is actually part of the 06X family.

I have not yet seen inside the AEG block, but the oil pump is driven by chain from the crank?

Does the ALH crank already have the correct gear to drive the oil pump? What about any of the other TDI cranks?

Should I be using the 16V timing gear on the TDI crank? Or is the mk4 8v timing gear fat like the 16v (unlike earlier 8vs)? Is there a difference in the belt between the gasser and diesel? Gotta get my gears straight.

Then I would use 16V rods and 16V stroker pistons?

And I'd need the ARP studs...

Pre-planning winter projects.

[Issam Abed]

Quote, originally posted by Justin 123 »

I have not yet seen inside the AEG block, but the oil pump is driven by chain from the crank?

Yes it has a chain driven oil pump

Quote, originally posted by Justin 123 »

Does the ALH crank already have the correct gear to drive the oil pump? What about any of the other TDI cranks?

Depending on the model.Most ALH's have the correct oil pump drive gear yes.

Quote, originally posted by Justin 123 »

Should I be using the 16V timing gear on the TDI crank? Or is the mk4 8v timing gear fat like the 16v (unlike earlier 8vs)? Is there a difference in the belt between the gasser and diesel? Gotta get my gears straight.

You will need to buy a modified TDI crank gear - I sell them for 179 USD with a dowel.
Diesel's use different timing gears for the crankshaft to gasoline motors.

Quote, originally posted by Justin 123 »

Then I would use 16V rods and 16V stroker pistons?

Not if you are using the 95.5 crank no

Quote, originally posted by Justin 123 »

And I'd need the ARP studs...

Head studs? Sure

[Justin 123]

What would the right rods and pistons be to use withe 95.5mm crank?

[Issam Abed]

Quote, originally posted by Justin 123 »

What would the right rods and pistons be to use withe 95.5mm crank?

You will need aftermarket pistons (JE) for this.
Rods will be any 144/20mm rod
if you need pistons let me know....ive been selling JE pistons for these kind of applications for over 6 years.

[Justin 123]

You've just got it all, huh?

I'll have to do some research on the modded crank gear. So with an AEG block, you'd run a modded TDI crank gear. I assume this is the same width as a 16v belt? What about water pump? Is there a water pump with a wider cog to accommodate for the fatty 16v width belt? 1.8T pump and belt tensioner? Or is it safe to drive the 16v valve train with that little 8v width belt?

[Issam Abed]

Quote, originally posted by Justin 123 »

You've just got it all, huh?

....after years of doing this ,what becomes insane to some becomes the norm for others

Quote, originally posted by Justin 123 »

I'll have to do some research on the modded crank gear. So with an AEG block, you'd run a modded TDI crank gear. I assume this is the same width as a 16v belt? What about water pump? Is there a water pump with a wider cog to accommodate for the fatty 16v width belt? 1.8T pump and belt tensioner? Or is it safe to drive the 16v valve train with that little 8v width belt?

You should get your hands on some hardware and that would really help with your project.All 06A motors carry a over 1" wide timing belt (25+mm) so whatever combo you can think of is certainly reachable.

[Justin 123]

Just waiting on the AEG block to get rolling. My buddy has one local, were just both really busy and have conflicting schedules. I mean the car already runs well so this is somewhat of a bonus project to be built outside of the car to replace my tired old 9A.

I'm a bit wary about the TDI crank because of the crappy rod stroke ratio and the little gains to be had but bumping displacement is one of the few gains to be had on a n/a carbed motor. The other thing making me hesitate is the rumored loss of top end. The carbs scream up high. I'd hate to limit that. We'll see I guess. The car runs great now so I've got all the time in the world to get a second motor built. And good thing, because my girl keeps finding more house projects to do...

[duke_seb]

just keeping you guys up to date....

my MKIV 16V Turbo build is coming together only a few piece and some software back from being done..... if you havent been watching my thread you can see it in my sig

[elRey]

Issam Abed

CAM timing..... is the CAM timing off any with this combo requiring an adjustable CAM gear? If so, by how much would it be off?

I just used a stock 06A gear with stock 9A cams. It runs solid. So, it couldn't be off by much if at all.

I didn't know if you actually measured any timing phase or not.

Modified by elRey at 11:15 AM 1-7-2010

[Issam Abed]

Quote, originally posted by elRey »

Issam Abed CAM timing..... is the CAM timing off any with this combo requiring an adjustable CAM gear? If so, by how much would it be off? I just used a stock 06A gear with stock 9A cams. It runs solid. So, it couldn't be off by much if at all. I didn't know if you actually measured any timing phase or not.

I am dealing with this on the weekend.Will be able to show my findings then.More than likely an adjustable cam gear will not be needed considering an 16V head is essentially an 8V head in terms of geometry.I highly doubt your timing off is off.

Unlike the ABA 20V which was a completely interesting subject.

[hypothetical]

Obviously there has been an ass-load of discussion on this but wanted to add my two cents... I Fricking LOVE the 06A block for these reasons:

1) All the engine fasteners are the same size.
2) There are considerably less places to spring leaks because the flanges are better engineered and there are less of them.
3) Internal Waterpump with Steel impeller spins to 9000RPM all day without cavitation.
4) Internal Oil Pump and lack of Intermediate Shaft create a far stronger higher revving capability. (Note: 5-30 or 5-40 Synthetic OIL is the only way to insure trouble free operation.)
5) Superior Block Strength reduces internal vibrations and when you update to the 06X you can run the Fluidampr Harmonic Balancer/Accessory Pulley which has been an awesome addition to my engine in its own right.

[jettalvr41]

can a 16v head swap be done on BEV engine code. i see lots of info for older model engine codes. but im super tired of my slow 8v BEV

[duke_seb]

Quote, originally posted by jettalvr41 »

can a 16v head swap be done on BEV engine code. i see lots of info for older model engine codes. but im super tired of my slow 8v BEV

read my thread in my sig I'm doing one now

[Shifty]

For those wanting to hear one of these run for themselves, here's a short video of ours revving for the first time. The lifters are still ticking a bit here, there's an exhaust leak, and the camera speaker sucks... but you get the idea. In person the motor purrs very nicely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJhRKccV7iA

[Issam Abed]

Happy to see more of these coming up!
Everyone owes elrey a huge

[Justin 123]

Got my AEG block this weekend!

[stickman]

Quote, originally posted by hypothetical »

4) Internal Oil Pump and lack of Intermediate Shaft create a far stronger higher revving capability. (Note: 5-30 or 5-40 Synthetic OIL is the only way to insure trouble free operation.)

If what you're saying about oil weight is true then this might not be a good option for some people depending on what pistons/clearance they run. I had to run 20W50 synthetic for my 9A to not eat oil (going past the JE pistons). First try was 10W-30 synthetic with no luck. 5W-40 could be a potential nightmare.

Issam, do you know if they cylinder thickness is the same as a 9A? Reason I ask is for some people running 84.5mm bore. Also do you know anyone has run that bore? TIA.

Brian

[hypothetical]

Quote, originally posted by stickman »

If what you're saying about oil weight is true then this might not be a good option for some people depending on what pistons/clearance they run. I had to run 20W50 synthetic for my 9A to not eat oil (going past the JE pistons). First try was 10W-30 synthetic with no luck. 5W-40 could be a potential nightmare. Issam, do you know if they cylinder thickness is the same as a 9A? Reason I ask is for some people running 84.5mm bore. Also do you know anyone has run that bore? TIA. Brian

I was only posting my experience. i am certain the 5W50 Mobile One would operate without issue. My point was that most oil issues come from people running generic dyno oil in the engines. A quality oil and proper maintenance intervals eliminates 99.9% of the issues reported with internal oil pumps.

84.5mm, WOW!!! Biggest I've seen in person was 84mm and that was on a circle track car....