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    Thread: Interior Door Panel Removal -- Bass Speaker Broken Wire Repair

    1. 09-17-2009 08:05 PM #26
      Fine folks of the Phaeton forum:
      I have an update on the speakers, and also a PSA for the good of all members.
      Upon removing the door panel (what a job!) I tested the contacts directly on the speaker for an open circuit. To my dismay, the circuit was, in fact, open, meaning the speaker was toast. Not being one to quit easily, I decided to toy with the speaker. I pressed on the speaker (driver?) while touching the contact points and I got a beep, indicating a closed circuit. I pressed hard for a few seconds (be careful if you attempt this, it takes some finesse and you must press the right place, mine was near the upper-left of the speaker) and got a solid tone. I have since reconnected the amplifier and reassembled the car (excepting the door panel) and tested the speaker and voila! I now have a working speaker!
      As far as I can tell, something was shaken loose inside the speaker. I choose to attribute this to the remarkable door slamming that has tortured my Phaeton.
      To all Phaeton owners: Feel justified when you cringe as someone slams your door -- they might ruin your speakers!
      I am hoping this is the same problem with the other two bass speakers, I will post my findings tomorrow when I have the energy to remove the other two door panels.
      Thanks so much for your help guys, I couldn't have done it without you!

    2. 09-17-2009 09:31 PM #27
      Another update: This evening, I went to go listen to my radio. As soon as I turned the volume up past 50%, the speaker went out again. I'll see if I can do anything to fix it, but it seems like it really IS blown. Time to go shopping.

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      09-18-2009 12:25 AM #28
      It sounds like you're capable and your troubleshooting skills follow logical paths.
      I imagine you are relieved that the amplifier is not the component requiring replacement. If memory serves, I seem to remember that it is in the range of $700.
      Bill

    4. 09-18-2009 01:07 PM #29
      I just finished removing the front driver door panel and was both pleasantly and unpleasantly surprised with what I found.
      I removed the speaker from the door frame by removing the bolts. Upon closer inspection, I noticed the wires in the speaker appeared to be cut or broken somehow, shown in the following picture:

      The wire appears (to me at least) to have been cut. The wire is not ripped from it's post, but rather cleanly cut about 1/8" from the terminal.
      I have soldered the wire back to it's terminal (not pictured), reinstalled the speaker in the door, and voila! Now I have a speaker that is actually fixed, and I don't think it'll be temporary (I turned it all the way up -- no issues!)
      The wire appears to have simply broken due to the bass hitting very hard. I've had to solder it twice so far, apparently there is a lot of strain on these wires.
      If anyone else has issues with speakers not making any sound at all, DON'T assume it's blown, even if the dealer tells you so, if there is *no sound at all* you may want to check the speaker's internal wiring.


      Modified by Apple_Eater at 1:10 PM 9-18-2009

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      09-19-2009 07:22 AM #30
      Please let us know how your speakers work in the next days.
      I have been amazed/dismayed at the number of people with speaker problems in their Phaeton, and if there is some brittleness to the wiring causing the "blown" speakers it will certainly save a lot in future repairs if the problem you found proves to be common.
      Bravo, for your persistence. But please report the functional outcome.
      Thanks,
      Erick

    6. 09-19-2009 07:56 AM #31
      I have removed the rear driver speaker from it's rivets and run some tests. I realized it did not have the same problem as the other speaker, and there was no way I could fix it, so I took it apart to see what had gone wrong.
      I don't have any pictures, but somehow the voice coil (loops of wire going around the speaker) had been damaged.
      One of the wires in the voice coil had been snapped in half, much like the other wiring in the front speaker. Since this was inside the voice coil, repair would be near impossible (I had to dremmel the casing to bits just to see the voice coil)
      I will update you guys when I find what is amiss with the rear passenger side, and I will likely try to find new drivers to replace the rear two.
      The front driver speaker is still working flawlessly after I soldered it for the second time -- I ran through some bass-intensive songs at max volume with no issues.

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      09-19-2009 10:30 AM #32
      Damon,
      Which tool did you finally get for door trim removal, and where did you get it? You have motivated me to tackle this problem in my car now that instructions have been posted on removing the amplifier.
      Thanks,
      George

    8. Senior Member PanEuropean's Avatar
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      09-19-2009 11:09 AM #33
      Quote, originally posted by Apple_Eater »
      The wire appears (to me at least) to have been cut...

      No, I doubt very much if it was cut. I have seen the identical problem myself on another Phaeton bass speaker. I've been really busy this week, and not had time to search for the photo (I think I have a photo of it).
      My guess is that the speaker cone moves back and forth through quite a large distance, and it is possible that the wire fails due to vibration.
      Michael

    9. 09-19-2009 11:14 AM #34
      George,
      I just picked up a garden-variety door trim removal tool from my local O'Reilly autoparts store. Here is a link to the product listing on their website:
      http://www.oreillyauto.com/sit...49050
      Other than being awkwardly shaped (very difficult to get it into the fasteners just right) it did the job perfectly -- I didn't break a single fastener.
      Also, if you're looking at tackling the speakers, you will need a powered drill to drill through the rivet, and a rivet kit to replace them when finished.
      I would also advise you to look into purchasing a repair manual from Bentley Publishers -- it has saved me much time and effort (although it is occasionally inaccurate).

    10. Senior Member PanEuropean's Avatar
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      06-05-2011 07:55 PM #35
      Well - a couple of years have passed since the last post on this subject (directly above), and today, I dropped in to see Willem whilst riding my motorcycle through the mountain twisties of central Netherlands. We took the driver door interior trim panel off his Phaeton to investigate a bass speaker that was not functioning.

      Sure enough, we found the same problem that was previously reported above - one of the wires that leads from the bass speaker cone had fractured (probably from metal fatigue) at the point where it is soldered onto the terminal of the speaker.

      It appears that this is sort of an design error on the part of Blaupunkt, who make these speakers. The speaker wires are soldered onto the terminal, then a small amount of epoxy (the black material) is painted over top of the soldered area. Unfortunately, the epoxy doesn't permit the wire to flex, and after a while, the wire just breaks off due to the back-and-forth movement of the speaker cone. The wire won't move away from the terminal when it breaks, so, if you are in there investigating, very gently poke the wire to see if it is still connected or if it has come loose.

      The repair is quite simple, you just remove the epoxy and re-solder the wire in place. It is easy to remove the speaker from the door to fix it - it is held in place with four screws, and has one quick-disconnect electrical connector on it.

      Be very judicious with solder when you re-attach the wire - you DON'T want to add more solder, and you especially don't want to allow either the existing solder or any new solder to "wick" further up the wire towards the speaker cone. The problem of the broken wire is caused (in the first instance) by too much solder wicking up the wire, which renders the wire inflexible.

      Michael

      Broken Wire (typical) - Front Door Bass Speaker


      Michael & Willem - June 2011, Netherlands

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      06-06-2011 01:55 AM #36
      Please post a picture of the mountain twisties of central Netherlands.
      Steve
      Philadelphia

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      06-06-2011 05:00 AM #37

    13. Member WillemBal's Avatar
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      06-06-2011 05:21 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by PanEuropean View Post
      Well - a couple of years have passed since the last post on this subject (directly above), and today, I dropped in to see Willem whilst riding my motorcycle through the mountain twisties of central Netherlands. We took the driver door interior trim panel off his Phaeton to investigate a bass speaker that was not functioning.
      While Michael and I were having fun taking the door apart, fixing the speaker and talking and explaining all kinds of details to my Phaeton minded son, a tiny detail slipped through our attention… introducing another problem, which we first noticed while test driving. Just about every control on the door panel didn't function, including the window controls, trunk and gas cover. So that was good for 20 minutes more fun. It is amazing to see how simple it is to disassemble the door panel. The only condition is that you must have done it before.
      Here is the solution.
      I first checked and reseated just about every connector. When I came to check the little door handle lighting connector, I remembered that both Michael and I were both a bit puzzled about how it should be seated. Below photograph shows the connector just prior to sliding it into the jack.

      Removed door trim panel with door handle lighting connector and jack - wrong way.



      As you can see, there are two metal strips visible. This turned out to be wrong. These two metal strips should be positioned upside down. That way, only the other side, which is plain black plastic, can be seen. So what went wrong during our first attempt?
      This connector has two small notches on one side and so has the jack in which it fits. They are so small that it is still possible to reversely insert the connector; only moderate force is needed to do that.
      Note that after seating it correctly, the door handle did NOT light up straight away. This is caused by the interior lighting system which goes out after some idle time. Just closing and opening the door, paying attention not to damage the loose door trim panel, it did function again.
      So the fix was simple. Just reseat the door handle lighting connector properly, and there was no need to remove the entire door panel. But it was fun to do it myself this time and a good practice for the doing the job on the other bass speaker, of the front passenger door.
      Since the sound quality already has much improved, I'm looking forward to fix the other side. I will probably do that next week, when the procedure is still fresh in my mind. And with the help of Michael's excellently detailed instructions above and hands-on practice.
      Willem

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      11-14-2011 05:42 PM #39
      Hello Michael, all Phaeton users,

      I want to install a (Pioneer TS WX77A) subwoofer incl. amplifier in the trunk.

      Could u advise me where is the best place to hook up to the rear door bass speakers (in the trunk near the right battery? ). I just need to hook up to existing rear bass speakers, but preferably already in the trunk. Power connections are fairely easy as all connections are available.

      Thx in advange,

      Wouter Jansen, NL, Amsterdam
      wouterjansen60@hotmail.com

      PS, i managed to exchange to xenonbulbs without trouble, thx to your clear workout in an other link.

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      11-14-2011 10:57 PM #40
      Hi Wouter:

      I am going to guess that the most probable "best place" to connect to the wires that lead to the two rear door speakers would be at or near the large connector that plugs into the existing amplifier for the sound system.

      There are two types of sound systems in Phaetons: a 8 channel, 10 speaker system that is standard equipment, and an optional 12 channel, 12 speaker system.

      If you have a look in the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category), you will find discussions there that explain how to identify which system is which, and you will also find PDFs of wiring diagrams for both of these systems (the wiring is very different between the two). The PDFs should enable you to identify the correct wires by correlating the pin numbers on the connector to the wires that feed to the two rear door bass speakers.

      Michael

    16. 11-15-2011 12:08 PM #41
      Wouter, if you're going to amplify the signal to the subwoofer, isn't it the pre-amp output you need, not the speaker level wires? Or are you talking about driving the rear door speakers with filtered output from the amp?

    17. Member wouterjansen60's Avatar
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      12-01-2011 10:12 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by invisiblewave View Post
      Wouter, if you're going to amplify the signal to the subwoofer, isn't it the pre-amp output you need, not the speaker level wires? Or are you talking about driving the rear door speakers with filtered output from the amp?
      Hi ,

      Well, i just need to connect straight to the speakerwires, preferably the rear door bass speakers left and right as my active subwoofer is prepared for this input i guess this is indeed the filtered speaker output). I know the audio amplifier is located on the left side in the trunk behind the (starter) battery, just now trying to find out the pin-colorscheme. I do have the 12 channel amp. System...

      So, if anyone can tell me which pins i need to use for both left and right low bass rear speaker, i am a happy man :-)... Thx a lot

    18. Member wouterjansen60's Avatar
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      12-02-2011 12:25 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by wouterjansen60 View Post
      Hi ,

      Well, i just need to connect straight to the speakerwires, preferably the rear door bass speakers left and right as my active subwoofer is prepared for this input i guess this is indeed the filtered speaker output). I know the audio amplifier is located on the left side in the trunk behind the (starter) battery, just now trying to find out the pin-colorscheme. I do have the 12 channel amp. System...

      So, if anyone can tell me which pins i need to use for both left and right low bass rear speaker, i am a happy man :-)... Thx a lot
      Correction, the amp is located on the right site. The wiring schedule mention indeed about a J 525 controller..... This is not the amp?

    19. Member WillemBal's Avatar
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      12-02-2011 02:45 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by wouterjansen60 View Post
      Correction, the amp is located on the right site. The wiring schedule mention indeed about a J 525 controller..... This is not the amp?
      Yep, J525 is the amp.
      But won't the outside world will be hearing more of your subwoofer than yourself? What is the added value?
      Willem

    20. Member wouterjansen60's Avatar
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      12-03-2011 12:28 AM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by WillemBal View Post
      Yep, J525 is the amp.
      But won't the outside world will be hearing more of your subwoofer than yourself? What is the added value?
      Willem
      Ur welcome to hear the result yourself in Amsterdam (and yes, i do still manage to park that Phaeton there) :-), and i am sure that many Phaeton users would love to add some more finest deep basses. I am sure u will love one too. Btw, apart of Michaels great information sources i did found somewere the specific connector wiringcolors and numbers..., upload will follow, and some pics.. Many more other related questions, but later :-)

    21. Member WillemBal's Avatar
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      12-03-2011 08:50 AM #46
      Ahhh, Amsterdam...Perhaps this proves how burglar proof the Phaeton is. Anyway, I wasn't sure whether you found the wiring or not. So I organized the information I already gathered about the wiring and interconnections with the purpose to upgrade the infotainment system. Fruitless so far, but the information can be useful at times. Here you go:



      You probably need just the RF and LF BWFR (Bass speaker) terminals. The legend of acronyms and speaker definitions is given below:

      Legenda
      Abbrev. Description VW description
      TWTR Tweeter Treble speaker
      SQKR Squawker Mid range speaker
      MWFR Mid bass woofer Mid bass speaker
      BWFR Woofer Bass speaker
      LF Left front
      RF Right front
      LR Left rear
      RR Right rear

      Would be great to hear the result when you have installed the sub woofer!

      Willem

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      12-03-2011 02:52 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by wouterjansen60 View Post
      Ur welcome to hear the result yourself in Amsterdam (and yes, i do still manage to park that Phaeton there) :-), and i am sure that many Phaeton users would love to add some more finest deep basses. I am sure u will love one too. Btw, apart of Michaels great information sources i did found somewere the specific connector wiringcolors and numbers..., upload will follow, and some pics.. Many more other related questions, but later :-)
      Thx Willem, now just collect the Guts for this operation and some reasonabe temperatures to do the work :-). Keep you updated. Amazing what a inlormation is availbale over here.
      Have a good weekend, Wouter

    23. Member wouterjansen60's Avatar
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      12-15-2011 11:51 AM #48
      Dear all,

      After carefully investigation the wiring scheme, i finally decided to ask a professional installer to do the job, a good move as they needed approx. 3h just to install the Pioneer WX77A active subwoofer in the trunk...

      A major job, right (starter) battery has to be removed, lost of wiring has to be loosen, not even to mention how to bring the subwoofer userpanel up to the front. Indeed, the rear seat had to be removed aswell. In total it resulted in 3h Laborcost, however it works fine now and the coffee during installation was nice :-)

      I am not able to upload some pics yet (not easy on this forum as new user), but the main message is, don't you ever think to do it yourself, even when it "just seems" a simple connection to speaker wiring....

      Additional i decided to install a Solista unit, that was fairely easy to install and now i can enjoy my Iphone music or USBstick with music. The CD player however is useless now. There are specific treats on this on this forum.

      Regards,
      Wouter

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      04-19-2012 06:06 PM #49


      I toke a while, but here the first picture in order to get an idea how complex it is to get access to the speaker control unit. It is located behind the right side battery. Later i post the subwoofer itself lokated in the trunk. And o boy, what a sound now :-)

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      07-18-2012 05:36 AM #50
      Well, he never posted pics of the subwoofer. I did something similar in mine. Here are some pics. Let's see if you can spot what's strange about them.



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