Meet Herman the German. (And gti_matt is back!)

[jets]

while installing the new idler pulley, the 10mm bolt for it snapped

Was that a new bolt or the original? If original, was it a clean break or were there signs of metal fatigue?
I have read on the OZ site where a stud through an idler or tensioner [can't remember now] on a mk5 TDI broke on a high mileage car.As you can imagine it brought the whole house down.
On some timing belt kits, they supply new bolts with a blue coating on the thread to help stop the bolt undoing. This obviously important if the idler runs in a counter clockwise direction.

[gti_matt]

Was that a new bolt or the original? If original, was it a clean break or were there signs of metal fatigue?
I have read on the OZ site where a stud through an idler or tensioner [can't remember now] on a mk5 TDI broke on a high mileage car.As you can imagine it brought the whole house down.
On some timing belt kits, they supply new bolts with a blue coating on the thread to help stop the bolt undoing. This obviously important if the idler runs in a counter clockwise direction.

Old bolt, didn't have a new one. Looked like a fairly clean break.

[EV99]

Doesn't say "always replace" on that one:

[gti_matt]

When it comes to the timing belt, I believe it's a good idea to replace all the moving parts since failure of any one of them can stop things dead. Hence, why I attempted to replace.

But then again, there's a certain degree of truth to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" too.

[jets]

10Nm is not very much. Did you use a lot more force to break it?

[gti_matt]

No idea at this point. Seeing as how tight the idler fits into the oil pump housing w/o the bolt I really think that my error was not pressing in the idler first and then installing the bolt after it was seated. I thought (erroneously) that the bolt would just draw in the idler into the housing but it's a very tight friction-fit that I underestimated I bet.

[gti_matt]

Very minor update on this. My strategy now is to remove the oil pump (which means removing the oil pan) to deal w/the broken bolt. Drained the oil and began trying to unbolt the oil pan. Got most of the small bolts removed from the pan except for two of them that are somewhat obscured by the part of the passenger-side driveshaft (damn you VW for being geniuses at stuffing so much hardware into a small space ). This is also the first oil pan I've seen where some of it is secured by the transmission bellhousing (or maybe it's the final drive? it's something "big" near the trans) and I didn't take those bolts out yet. After a few facefuls of sand from under the car while working on it I decided I had enough for one day (and it was kinda hot too).

So not a lot of progress but better than nothing.

[CdnVWJunk-e]

Matt, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I don't believe you can remove the oil pan without separating the trans from the engine. I know this to be certain on the AAB and can only presume it's the case on the AAF.

[gti_matt]

Holy hell, seriously?!

I know I saw a couple of bolts between the trans and oil pan but figured once those were removed the pan could be dropped.

Really did VW do this?

[jets]

The Bentley does not mention removing the trans to take off the sump.[thats not conclusive though] It does say rotate flywheel so that recess is aligned flush with bolts.
In the Peter Russek manual[I only have the diesel version] it says " To remove the bolts on the gearbox side, rotate the flywheel until the cut-outs are in line with the bolts" Also no mention of removing the trans. in this manual so you might be lucky.

[CdnVWJunk-e]

I have an AAF sitting here. The flywheel is off but I still have it. I'll have a look. Hopefully I'm wrong

[gti_matt]

OK thanks although I suspect you are right. I googled and found a post somewhere that referenced an ACU engine that said more or less the same thing, so if a AAB is that way and an ACU is that way, I'd be shocked if the AAF was different. I guess the $64K question is, what's the minimum required amount of work/removal required to get to the remaining oil pan bolts?

[CdnVWJunk-e]

Matt, I looked at two different flywheels I have here. One is the single mass from an AAF. It has the slots. I looked at an AAB dual mass, it has both slots. It looks like you're in luck. Me, well that job's done ;-)

[gti_matt]

Dumb question...how do I access these slots? BTW I have a manual trans if that makes any difference.

[CdnVWJunk-e]

It's not a dumb question. I didn't even realize they were there until someone here mentioned them. LOL.

Rotate the bottom end over. Using the crank sprocket would be best. There's two slots. 180 degrees opposite to one another.

[gti_matt]

It's not a dumb question. I didn't even realize they were there until someone here mentioned them. LOL.

Rotate the bottom end over. Using the crank sprocket would be best. There's two slots. 180 degrees opposite to one another.

Bummer I'll lose TDC though (haven't put the timing belt back on yet) doing this but sure sounds better than separating engine and trans. Nothing to remove to see them other than rotating the crank?

[EV99]

Bummer I'll lose TDC though (haven't put the timing belt back on yet) doing this but sure sounds better than separating engine and trans. Nothing to remove to see them other than rotating the crank?

Why would you loose TDC if head is off? Isn't head off??

[gti_matt]

Why would you loose TDC if head is off? Isn't head off??

Head is back on but timing belt not on.

[EV99]

Head is back on but timing belt not on.

Ok I haven't followed much, but you can still find TDC through the spark plug hole if you don't trust the markings?

Did you figure out the oil pan removal? I just pulled a 93 I5 2.5 engine myself couple of days ago, looks like the oil pan has "holes" to access the bolts that is on the transmission end, no? I haven't pulled the oil pan myself yet (nor do I know if I will)

[gti_matt]

Gave up on dropping the pan but the bolt is out!

My father-in-law made it down with his easy-out. He also bought a M7 (I think) bolt and put it in a die and hollowed it out to use as a guide to help center his drill when drilling. Got it dead center, then used the easy-out. Stub came out nicely and no thread damage. Had to undo the passenger side mount to drop the motor about 3/4" for clearance to drill straight in.

He's good at this sort of thing. I would have messed it up more for sure 'cause I'm accident prone that way lol.

[gti_matt]

Argh.....soooo close! Thought we'd be turning the key today, but no.

I got three things left to sort out:

1. Fuel line connections at the fuel rail...which goes where?

2. Got a blue wire in a 2-pin connector hanging off the wire harness that goes on the back of the alternator. No idea where this connects to. Anyone know?

3. Poured coolant in him only to have it dribble right back out of the water neck fitting on the head (the one that has a couple of hoses and sensors). Probably an o-ring problem.

[kauboi]

As I understand it, the fuel pressure regulator goes on the return to the tank. Im not familiar withe the early vans, but my 02 has two lines connecting to the fuel rail (loop) .Mine have different size fittings and theoretically cant be reversed. If I wasnt sure which line came from the pump, maybe cycle the key and see which one fuel comes out of? (into a bottle of course)

I think the blue wire is the alternator exciter, is there a small open terminal on your alternator? I think it feeds a small voltage to start your alts charging function.

No clue on the leak.

[gti_matt]

As I understand it, the fuel pressure regulator goes on the return to the tank.

Hmmm OK I think that is consistent with the ETKA diagram which seems to indicate that one line (return) going back to the tank goes on the pressure regulator and the other line (supply) that tees into two goes one on the fuel rail and the other half of the tee goes to the cold start injector on the intake manifold.

Im not familiar withe the early vans, but my 02 has two lines connecting to the fuel rail (loop) .Mine have different size fittings and theoretically cant be reversed. If I wasnt sure which line came from the pump, maybe cycle the key and see which one fuel comes out of? (into a bottle of course)

Mine has two lines as well (one on the rail, the pressure regulator goes on the rail, and then another line connects to that). My fittings are the same size though. Yes I can probably tell which hose is the supply one but I already can guess that because the supply one is the one that tees into two (one for the fuel rail and one for the cold start injector). It's guessing supply and return on the rail and PR properly that is the question.

I think the blue wire is the alternator exciter, is there a small open terminal on your alternator? I think it feeds a small voltage to start your alts charging function.

That makes sense. I'll look again. It's probably right in front of my face and I didn't see it because I was looking *around* the alternator and not *on* it.

No clue on the leak.

Thanks but that's OK...that's a o-ring thing I bet or I may have cracked the hose flange when tightening it on. I'm not worried about solving that one; it'll be easy.

[gti_matt]

Well dummy me. The blue wire connects to a terminal on the alternator itself, just didn't see it because it's dark and obscured by another harness. Hiding in (nearly) plain sight. D'oh!

So that leaves my coolant leak (probably o-ring) and the fuel lines. Almost there!

[jets]

So that leaves my coolant leak (probably o-ring)

I hope that's all it needs. If it's a plastic housing on your model, they can crack & leak. Try a new O ring first though.

[gti_matt]

Yes it's plastic. It's probably only two years old that I replaced it but who knows...I could have overtightened it and cracked it (I sometimes can be a bit of a gorilla when it comes to wrenching things). Or I could have had a brain failure and forgot to put in the o-ring. I find I'm getting forgetful in my semi-old age LOL.

[gti_matt]

Water leak fixed. I replaced the hose flange and o-ring together.

Fuel lines connected (I looked at someone else's Eurovan locally to get the right connection order).

Coolant back in, oil back in, battery hooked up.

Turned the key today and........


No go. Doesn't sound right. Motor turns too smoothly is the best way I can put it and it just doesn't sound right. We might have something 180-degrees wrong. I didn't crank it a lot, but I did turn the key at least a half dozen times just to get the fuel to squirt a few times since it's been sitting forever and has air in the lines but even if the fuel hasn't really made it to the motor yet, it just doesn't feel or sound right while cranking. It sounds the same as when I had all the plugs out to do compression testing before the teardown began if that's any indicator of what's wrong.

Gonna retrace steps and do some compression testing this week.

[gti_matt]

Been thinking about this some and since I know we put the distributor back 180-degrees wrong (but switched around all the ignition wires accordingly), I think we overlooked one significant thing and it's the distributor being 180-degrees off and remapping the wires on the cap isn't correct...it's also the Hall effect sensor is physically mounted 180-off too (for example, the plug is now at the bottom where it should be at the top). I am thinking that I gotta flip it all around back to where it was.

[jets]

Keep going, you will get there in the end & learn plenty along the way.

[CdnVWJunk-e]

Pull the cap and turn the engine over to TDC and inspect where the rotor is pointing to verify it's on cylinder 1. If it isn't then correct the distributor.

[gti_matt]

Keep going, you will get there in the end & learn plenty along the way.

Already more than I cared to!

Pull the cap and turn the engine over to TDC and inspect where the rotor is pointing to verify it's on cylinder 1. If it isn't then correct the distributor.

Did that already when we put the cap on and that's when we found that the #1 was 180-degrees off (and bear in mind we know the dist is upside down too because the plug for the Hall sensor is on the bottom now and should be on the top). We thought just "remapping" the wires would be enough (moving the #1 wire to the new #1 position and then going around the cap 1-2-4-5-3) but I guess not.

[gti_matt]

Ok guys...tell me if this is right (crank and cam timing and making sure I'm not 180-deg off between cam and crank)

I loosened the #1 spark plug so that it was barely threaded (so as to let air escape with an audible "pfffft!" sound).

Starting with the cam and crank lined up (notch in crank vibration damper lined up with the mark/line on the lower timing belt cover which is IIRC roughly at 2-o'clock (bearing in mind how the motor is tilted forward in this car) and the camshaft sprocket's notch was visible in the slot on the back of the upper timing belt cover and level with the valve cover....

I hand-cranked the motor. The first revolution of the crank I heard nothing from the #1 cylinder. As of the 2nd revolution, I heard the "pfffft!" I expected all during cranking that 2nd revolution of the crank. Then at the end of that second revolution where the audible "pffft!" came to an end, both crank and cam marks were visible again.

So this is correct right? After the compression up-stroke is when the crank and cam sprocket marks are both aligned again, correct?

[gti_matt]

Well hot dayumn the mystery is solved! The car isn't running yet and I don't have time right now to deal with it but I know where we went wrong.

It kept bugging me that when the cam and crank are timed at (what we perceived to be) TDC that the distributor rotor was about 60-70 degrees off from #1 according to the nick on the distributor rim. "No way in hell is that possible!" I kept saying to myself.

So I hand-cranked the motor to our TDC setting (with distributor misaligned). I then had a helper hand-crank the motor. I watched the rotor come around and as it approached the notch in the distributor rim (which is about 4-o'clock), I had my helper slow down the cranking and I then looked at the cam sprocket through the slot in the timing belt cover.

Lo and behold what shows up right about then? Another mark!

There are TWO marks on the cam sprocket, not one! We timed to the wrong mark!

Now who the hell knows what that second mark is (is it factory? is it damage from us removing the cam sprocket months before and we had to muscle it off?) but we timed to the wrong one is the bottom line.

This explains everything.

1. The distributor we marked before removal and you can pretty much only put it on right or 180-degrees off, maybe +/- a few degrees but certainly not as far off as it was. This implies that the cam had to be timed wrong.

2. Compression was pretty even on all cylinders but only at about 25psi or so. This means we were getting a full stroke of the piston during which the valves were closed only some of the time but not all of the time. Again, cam timing is suspicious in this case.

So in the interest of not having to undo too much, I think it's a matter of putting the crank at TDC, removing the upper TB cover, getting the TB off the cam sprocket, turning the cam to the correct mark in the window, and getting the belt back on, and triple-checking EVERYTHING and also doing some hand-crank checks before firing it up.

Phew.

[EV99]

Whenever in doubt you can check that the lobes on cam for cylinder one point up
or lay flat upward (one forward the other towards back of car) simple way to always make sure you're at the right place.

[gti_matt]

Whenever in doubt you can check that the lobes on cam for cylinder one point up
or lay flat upward (one forward the other towards back of car) simple way to always make sure you're at the right place.

Something like that occurred to me as the next step in the event that finding a 2nd mark (still ) didn't come to fruition. I want to "undo" as little as possible so that's why I did the test I just did, rather than start unbolting the valve cover, but yeah eyeballing the cam in action would probably have eventually led me to the same conclusion.

And FWIW, the other thing I tested tonight (as long as I was at it), I checked yet again that I am reading the crank TDC mark correctly and I think I am. I put a straw into the #1 hole and it goes up/down as expected as what I believe to be TDC nick mark on the vibration damper pulley rim passes the mark on the lower TB cover. I was pretty sure I had it right but as long as I was verifying two (cam and distributor) of the three marks, I figured I'd verify the third one as well.