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    Thread: INA 034 Density line review

    1. Member gfunk00's Avatar
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      10-07-2009 08:57 PM #1
      Hello everyone. I have been working with HPA on my car since May and it's going pretty well. I am sure most of you have had a look at the Bonneville thread and of course HPA's official release of the Typhoon ivG system.
      My car had 70K miles when I dropped it off at HPA in April. This made me think about upgrading the engine mounts. I did some research and people had good things to say about the Density line mounts. I contacted INA and worked out a sweet deal for all three engine/tranny mounts and the strut mounts. I was really excited to get these installed.
      I brought the mounts to HPA and the team at HPA installed them. Before the new mounts were installed my Typhoon system had already been on the car for 2K miles. We drove the car from HPA to the SoCal R32 event. That was a non stop overnight rallye and a long night. This was followed by some R32 mountain fun and some time on the track at the event. The hardware was holding up great and HPA was playing with the software. My point here is that the HPA system was in place, driven hard, and all was good. Many are familiar with the short runner intake as its the same one on the turbo cars. This come in to play later, read on.
      Back to HPA after the event. HPA installed the density line mounts and took my car for a test drive. I was at HPA that day. The car was pulled back into the shop and we noticed oil leaking from the supercharger area. During the test drive the oil line on the supercharger had come into contact with the body of the car causing it to loosen somewhat. We could also see that the Engine was not sitting as it should. Hmmm, this is a new development. HPA looked around and made a few adjustments. It was obvious the engine was resting in a position down and towards the front of the car with respect to when the factory mounts were installed. HPA modified around the oil line problem and I was off to Portland for a track day the next morning.
      The track day was a disaster. The car ran terrible and I was frustrated. I got the car back home and was in contact with HPA. Marcel was ready to have Darren his lead tech fly down to Portland to look at my car. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] I put the R in the garage and called it a day. The next morning I found that the intake pipe had come loose from the supercharger and a my friend Joey, owner of Double J Motorworks here in Portland noticed the black cap on the throttle body was damaged. The Throttle body was damaged because the engine was able to rotate enough under downshifting conditions to come in contact with the radiator fan! Downshifting...Raditor fan... This had cut a wedge out of the throttle body cap. After seeing this it was obvious why the intake pipe had come loose. My engine was bouncing around as if suspended by rubber bands. I reported my findings to HPA and Darren was spared a flight down to Portland.
      Lets review shall we? All HPA hardware in place with factory mounts that had 70K miles. Drive car hard 2K miles. Install Density line mounts. Damage to car and track day disaster. Pretty cut and dry.
      I delivered the car to HPA and European spec R32 mounts were installed. The car was looked over and damage was documented. Photos were taken before and after mounts were swapped. It's all in a nice report emailed to me by Marcel Horn. I would be happy to forward this report to anyone interested in reading it I don't feel the need to post it here because this is such an easy thing to understand. HPA shipped me the factory mounts with 70K miles and the density line mounts. They warned me on the phone that I would be shocked. Needless to say I was shocked. The factory mounts were still quite rigid. The density line mounts were flimsy. I could move them around with my hands. I was shocked!!!
      Moving on... I reported to INA by email that there was a problem. My initial response was, "I find this hard to believe." A request for pictures was also included.
      Fast forward to the email INA sent me about a refund. I feel this is worthy of a including in my post.
      Hello Gary,
      How are you doing? I have reviewed the file from Marcel and discussed this over with 034 Motorsport.

      This is what I am offering, as promised I will be issuing a full refund for the R32 mounts for the amount of $350 USD and I will be sourcing you a TPS for the R32 throttle body just to get it back into an aesthetically pleasing condition.
      I will need the following in order for this to happen:
      · A signed document/email from you stating that none of this information will be posted publically as we all know how forums can rage out of control.
      · The return of the mounts to 034 Motorsport for a full inspection. Obviously we do not want problems like this and if there is a problem we want to figure out a solution asap.

      Let me know your thoughts on this,
      Thanks,
      Issam


      I decided that it's not worth a refund to withhold what could be a real help to others. I think it's shady to offer a refund only on the condition that I would not tell anyone. That made me angry! I obviously chose to speak my mind. I could not believe this after all the trouble caused by the garbage mounts! INA can take the 350 and stuff it......
      These are my mounts now. I plan on making a video with my six year old nephew moving the mounts around with his hands. I will also be at shows with the mounts so people can have a look for themselves.
      The next event will be Quattrofest Nov 7th and 8th at PIR. Should be a great time at the track.
      I gave them a chance to make it right and they did offer me a refund. Asking me to keep quiet though? WTF?
      My gift to the Vortex and to my self respect. 350.00 worth of review.
      INA [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthdown.gif[/IMG]
      Mods please let this thread live. There are no lies here. The information is factual and I have saved all emails from INA. This is an honest review for the benefit of Vortex users. I have spent well over 12K on my car this year and the mounts caused me much more than 350 worth of trouble! These mounts cost me days, parts, a track day, a trip to HPA to deliver a car etc... If I can save someone the trouble I went through because of these mounts great! Thanks.
      Want your job back? Stop buying from Walmart and China or... Move to China because that's where your job is. C'mon people it's not rocket science.
      INA SUCKS http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...&highlight=INA

    2. Member Draxus's Avatar
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      10-07-2009 09:26 PM #2
      So wait.
      They offer you a refund and a throttle body.
      They also want to fix the problem quietly.
      So you... come here and smear them.
      For all you know it could have been a bad batch of mounts. :-/
      Quote Originally Posted by BlownR View Post
      I have seen several open slots, usually after tequila. Wait, I think that's different.
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    3. 10-07-2009 10:06 PM #3
      Quote, originally posted by Draxus »
      So wait.
      They offer you a refund and a throttle body.
      They also want to fix the problem quietly.
      So you... come here and smear them.
      For all you know it could have been a bad batch of mounts. :-/


      ^^^agreed
      I know HPA is a completely reputable company, but is there anyway the mounts could have been installed poorly? e.g. improperly torqued? were all of the mounts retoqured after the initial install?
      There have been several threads over the years about aftermarket engine mounts failing mostly due to improper installs. dog bone mounts have been installed upside down, both engine and tranny mounts installed at the same time rather one at a time, over or under torqued, etc. It sounds like from your post that there was a problem imeadiately after installation.
      Quote »
      Back to HPA after the event. HPA installed the density line mounts and took my car for a test drive. I was at HPA that day. The car was pulled back into the shop and we noticed oil leaking from the supercharger area. During the test drive the oil line on the supercharger had come into contact with the body of the car causing it to loosen somewhat. We could also see that the Engine was not sitting as it should. Hmmm, this is a new development. HPA looked around and made a few adjustments. It was obvious the engine was resting in a position down and towards the front of the car with respect to when the factory mounts were installed. HPA modified around the oil line problem and I was off to Portland for a track day the next morning.


      Please let it be known this is not a shot at HPA or 034 Motorsports. I have had no personal experience with either company, but they be both are well respected and reputable companys in the community.


    4. Member Gundem's Avatar
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      10-07-2009 10:07 PM #4
      My Track Density broke after around 4k miles on a F***** 2.8 engine......
      OP...good job!

    5. Member gfunk00's Avatar
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      10-07-2009 10:21 PM #5
      I am not smearing anybody. This is a review of the mounts and my personal experience. There is nothing in my review but truth. Telling the truth in not smearing anybody. Perhaps the truth reflects poorly on INA and so it seems like a smear.
      I bought the mounts based on several positive reviews from people on this site. The mounts were obviously from a bad batch. Thanks for your stellar insight.
      There were many emails before the offer of a refund. Offering a refund is good business. Of course people want to keep things quiet. Making silence a condition of the refund is no good and makes me think there are more problems. Shady
      The offer was for a TPS which can not be replaced on the R32 throttle body. An offer for a used throttle body was not good enough either.
      This is relevant information for anybody running an HPA short runner intake manifold. So yes, I did come here and I posted a review. I am not sure why you are posting here though. Looking at your signature it appears you do not have an R32, a MK4, or even a VW for that matter. I imagine you dont know why it's important for HPA owners to know this so I will help you. If you put garbage mounts in your car and you have a HPA short runner intake the throttle body and radiator fans will be damaged.
      This is not about the money or a throttle body. It's a matter of principle. It is costing me more to post this review than if I were to take the hush money. So I am the bad guy? I think not.
      Want your job back? Stop buying from Walmart and China or... Move to China because that's where your job is. C'mon people it's not rocket science.
      INA SUCKS http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...&highlight=INA

    6. 10-07-2009 10:22 PM #6
      asking for someone to do a nondisclose on a problem is not unusual. Asking for a nondisclose to do warranty work would be. It sounds like Issam is at least interested in learning what went wrong, which is more than I can say for some companies out there.

    7. Member gfunk00's Avatar
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      10-07-2009 10:29 PM #7
      Quote, originally posted by 2000-veedub »

      ^^^agreed
      I know HPA is a completely reputable company, but is there anyway the mounts could have been installed poorly? e.g. improperly torqued? were all of the mounts retoqured after the initial install?
      There have been several threads over the years about aftermarket engine mounts failing mostly due to improper installs. dog bone mounts have been installed upside down, both engine and tranny mounts installed at the same time rather one at a time, over or under torqued, etc. It sounds like from your post that there was a problem imeadiately after installation.


      Please let it be known this is not a shot at HPA or 034 Motorsports. I have had no personal experience with either company, but they be both are well respected and reputable companys in the community.

      Really? I am pretty sure HPA installed the mounts properly. Slap yourself in the face right now.
      Really?
      Several people are having good luck with the mounts. Look at an HPA intake and compare it with a factory intake. Besides being totally awesome the HPA intake and resulting position of the throttle body make it critical for things to stay put. That said my car was fine before and my factory mounts had 70K miles. Come on people! I am sure there are cars out there with these mounts that didn't even notice the shift in engine position.
      Want your job back? Stop buying from Walmart and China or... Move to China because that's where your job is. C'mon people it's not rocket science.
      INA SUCKS http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...&highlight=INA

    8. Member Zagi R's Avatar
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      10-07-2009 10:31 PM #8
      let me think here hmhmhhm my guess is hpa has euro mounts in stock a lot of them..and they are going to paint them orange hahahahahhhaaa.
      i know how hpa works and soon will everybody that gets to buy from them..
      stay away from HPA

    9. Member Zagi R's Avatar
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      10-07-2009 10:34 PM #9
      Quote, originally posted by gfunk00 »

      . That said my car was fine before and my factory mounts had 70K miles. Come on people! I am sure there are cars out there with these mounts that didn't even notice the shift in engine position.
      u got mad tq for 034 mounts hahahahahah

    10. Member rajuncajun37's Avatar
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      10-07-2009 10:35 PM #10
      I told ya'll in the last thread. The e-mail from INA says it best.
      *R32 1518*, biggest head ever to fit in a GOLF!
      Congrats, turd burglar.

    11. Member gfunk00's Avatar
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      10-07-2009 10:37 PM #11
      Quote, originally posted by banzaimf »
      asking for someone to do a nondisclose on a problem is not unusual. Asking for a nondisclose to do warranty work would be. It sounds like Issam is at least interested in learning what went wrong, which is more than I can say for some companies out there.

      The practice of asking for a non-disclose my be common for some industries, but I do not agree with it in this context. I agree that Issam is interested in what went wrong but that benefits me in no way.
      Another point to consider is that Issam sold a set of mounts and never touched or set eyes on them. The mounts were drop shipped from 034. Anybody at 034 could have looked at these mounts and moved them around with their hands. I learned the hard way obviously.
      I had no reason to question the quality of the mounts because...... Drum roll..... There is only positive information in the reviews. Hmmm
      Want your job back? Stop buying from Walmart and China or... Move to China because that's where your job is. C'mon people it's not rocket science.
      INA SUCKS http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...&highlight=INA

    12. Member Zagi R's Avatar
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      10-07-2009 10:43 PM #12
      Quote, originally posted by gfunk00 »
      . I did some research and people had good things to say about the Density line mounts
      looks like u got them before asking hpa team the experts

    13. Member rajuncajun37's Avatar
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      10-07-2009 10:44 PM #13
      I'm going dig up the thread from a few weeks ago when some clowns attacked me for disrespecting these mounts. I posted information that caused an uproar. My opinion was mocked and my integrity was questioned.
      This review is not surprising at all. I already found three other threads with similar reviews. I told the OP to do his homework and a few people said I was full of BS. I'm here to back what you posted and point fingers at the internet THUGS. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthdown.gif[/IMG]
      *R32 1518*, biggest head ever to fit in a GOLF!
      Congrats, turd burglar.

    14. Member rajuncajun37's Avatar
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      10-07-2009 10:48 PM #14
      *R32 1518*, biggest head ever to fit in a GOLF!
      Congrats, turd burglar.

    15. Member gfunk00's Avatar
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      10-07-2009 10:48 PM #15
      Quote, originally posted by Zagi R »
      looks like u got them before asking hpa team the experts

      HPA had nothing bad to say about 034. I asked them about mounts and they never bashed 034 or VF. I am not sure what your problem is. I am not here to sell anything.
      There is no comparison to the new mounts at all anyway. I compared the 034 mounts to my factory mounts that have 70K miles on them.
      This is my review and its all factual. All HPA did was install the mounts.
      Want your job back? Stop buying from Walmart and China or... Move to China because that's where your job is. C'mon people it's not rocket science.
      INA SUCKS http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...&highlight=INA

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      10-07-2009 10:53 PM #16
      I have both the HPA intake manifold and track density 034 mounts. I'm glad you posted this but it most likely isn't going to be a problem for everyone.

    17. 10-07-2009 11:13 PM #17
      Quote »
      Really? I am pretty sure HPA installed the mounts properly. Slap yourself in the face right now.
      Really?


      Of course your right no chance a mistake could have been made.
      Ok so they installed them properly...but why did they not notice that they were that more flimsy then then your 70K factory mounts? It just doesn't seem right compared to other reviews on this site.
      Like I said in my original post no personal experience with either company...its just that your experience seems to be grossly different then most others that have posted.

    18. 10-07-2009 11:19 PM #18
      I think it's already been said and recognized by quite a few people that understand OEM vs aftermarket, stiffer mounts are going to take more abuse and fail faster. VF, 034, HPA, whatever. Definitely not saying that's the case here because 2k miles is.... poor.
      The company offered to rectify the issue, instead you posted here. While your candor is appreciated, you may have lost an opportunity you'll never get back which means YOU put YOU out of cash. I understand where you're coming from, as people seem too timid to put honest reviews of products for fear of censorship or being chastised. I give you a [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] but hope the cost is worth it.

    19. Member gfunk00's Avatar
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      10-07-2009 11:22 PM #19
      Quote, originally posted by SlamdSLC »
      I have both the HPA intake manifold and track density 034 mounts. I'm glad you posted this but it most likely isn't going to be a problem for everyone.

      [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] Nice. That was obviously the result I was looking for. I read many reviews before buying and they all seemed good. I just want people to know that is not always the case. Take my experience for example. It was such a nightmare that I don't care about the money. People need the information. If they go with 034 great! Just have a close look to make sure you can't move them around with your hands freely.
      If you think I am joking about a six year old being able to move these around stay tuned for the video.
      Anybody local to PNW I will be happy to show you these mounts along with my old factory mounts. The old factory mounts have 70K on them and this car was previously owned by Bruce_M. Anyone that knows Bruce knows that was a hard 70K.
      Want your job back? Stop buying from Walmart and China or... Move to China because that's where your job is. C'mon people it's not rocket science.
      INA SUCKS http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...&highlight=INA

    20. Member rajuncajun37's Avatar
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      10-07-2009 11:34 PM #20
      I don't understand why the trolls come out the woods to address peoples opinions. Negative opinions should carry the same weight as positive endorsements. You don't see people questioning WHY a product is good. No one ask for proof of a good product but if you say one negative comment everyone wants to chime in. I say, " Make your comment and move on. Don't challenge everyone just because you are looking for a BUILD thread."
      *R32 1518*, biggest head ever to fit in a GOLF!
      Congrats, turd burglar.

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      10-07-2009 11:39 PM #21
      Just wanna say thanks for the heads up and looking out for other [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    22. 10-07-2009 11:55 PM #22
      Quote »
      Nice. That was obviously the result I was looking for. I read many reviews before buying and they all seemed good. I just want people to know that is not always the case. Take my experience for example. It was such a nightmare that I don't care about the money. People need the information. If they go with 034 great! Just have a close look to make sure you can't move them around with your hands freely.
      If you think I am joking about a six year old being able to move these around stay tuned for the video.
      Anybody local to PNW I will be happy to show you these mounts along with my old factory mounts. The old factory mounts have 70K on them and this car was previously owned by Bruce_M. Anyone that knows Bruce knows that was a hard 70K.

      Nice to see that you have an open opinion about the mounts and the company [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      I don't have a problem for people who are here to post their experience. What bothers me is people that judge an entire company one personal experience, when there is several completely opposite reviews on the same product.
      So thanks for the heads up.. right at this time I am considering 034 motorsports strut mounts for my next stock replacement.

    23. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      10-08-2009 12:17 AM #23
      Whether or not people agree with the circumstances, I applaud you for-
      A. standing up for what you believe in and not being afraid to call it as you see it.
      B. trying to help people out.
      I wish more people would do it.

      The problem with any shops trying to keep problems quiet is that they eventually leak out anyway. Might as well face the issue publicly and head on.
      People gave me **** years ago for busting on EIP and we know what happened to them.
      People gave me **** for calling out HPA and yet if you've been around a while and pay attention you will see that they too have their fair share of horror stories but do their best to keep it under wraps. (disappearing posts/threads anyone?)

      If you have a problem, admit it, deal with it and move on. Techtonics had an issue with their 24v cams a couple years ago causing quite a few people major problems, but they never tried to hide it. Many years before that they had an issue with their valve springs. They stood by their customers by all accounts I've ever heard told.
      Quote, originally posted by 2000-veedub »
      What bothers me is people that judge an entire company one personal experience, when there is several completely opposite reviews on the same product.


      The problem is that the good reviews stay around, the bad reviews have a way of getting deleted or blackholed especially if the company is a Vortex advertiser. You might not ever get to see the bad reviews unless you are on here all the time and pay close attention really quickly.
      -Josh
      Current VAG collection- 08 TT coupe 3.2 MT | 06 Phaeton 4-seater 6.0 W12 | 04 VW R32 | 03 GTI VR6 - all of them 24v VR6 based.
      Current other- 00 M Roadster | 12 Kia Soul 1.6 stick |01 ZRX1200R | 03 KLX400R | 00 XR200R

    24. 10-08-2009 12:22 AM #24
      Quote »
      The problem is that the good reviews stay around, the bad reviews have a way of getting deleted or blackholed especially if the company is a Vortex advertiser. You might not ever get to see the bad reviews unless you are on here all the time and pay close attention really quickly.

      point well taken [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    25. Member jmh2002's Avatar
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      10-08-2009 04:38 AM #25
      @gfunk00: Thanks for posting what appears to be a very fair and genuine review.
      Ill continue to monitor my own mounts and look forward to other users experiences over time as well.
      [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
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