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    Thread: My CQ--> S2 Conversion

    1. Member Hybrid_Hatch's Avatar
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      10-19-2009 01:53 PM #1
      I just "completed" my CQ to S2 Conversion. I thought it would be nice to compile my experience in one post with everything start to finish.

      My Approach:

      My goal with this project was to do a quick conversion using mostly OEM parts. The project was 100% funded by the sale of other car parts, non of my actual day job income was used to build this car (except for the cost of the CQ, which actually was funded by a car accident)

      I started this project late April early May, however I had already started collecting parts before that time. It was "completed" just a few days ago (I say "completed" because everyone knows a project car is always changing and always upgraded, but the the car was up and running again so thats why I say completed)

      Here is my shopping list:
      1 Coupe Quattro (this is how it looked when I bought it)



      Just before the swap

      20vt Engine (I took mine from a URS4 that i picked up cheap and parted out to pay for itself)

      ABY Wiring Harness (this is the European wiring harness for the later style S2, I sourced it from Europe along with all of the ABY parts)

      ABY Oil feed and Return lines

      ABY Oil Pan extension with return hole
      ABY Cross Member and Intercooler


      ABY Intake Manifold and Charge Pipes

      3B Downpipe (I used the 3b because the ABY version has dual cats, 3b has the outlet in the same place as the stock coupe quattro)

      Strebro Exhaust (not necessary, I had it in my garage already)
      Spec 3+ Clutch and Pressure Plate (stock clutch can be used, but i figured I would upgrade since I had it all apart)

      S2 Hubs (again not necessary, a good deal came along and I bought them)
      034 Alu Subframe Mounts (not necessary, but again, while in there)
      034 Motormounts (most mounts are dead unless they have already been replaced)
      034 Silicone Boost hoses for RS2 (I needed hoses, I didn't want used hoses that would fail so i bought new, these work great but they do not include the hose to the DV from the charge side of the turbo, they have the hole for it, but no hose, kind of frustrating)
      S2/V6 Front bumper (sourced from Europe, the later style v6 bumper is the same as the s2 but without headlight washers. This is necessary if you have the OEM crossmember and intercooler, it allows space for them)

      RS2/ABY Fuel rail

      7A Harmonic Balancer (I had a spare in my garage, but you can take yours from the stock engine)
      7A Flywheel (you can use the AAN Flywheel, but it is a "Dual-Mass" you will need a spacer between your engine and the bell housing)
      Custom Fuel Lines, I had VAP AKA Mance make mine
      3B or ABY Water manifold+ 7A water housing (the silver guy above the alternator in this picture)

      7A brackets for your accesories (PS Pump Bracket, Alternator Bracket, AC Bracket (if you go that way))
      Random hoses, vacuum lines and lots of clamps.


      Project progression:

      Started by removing donor engine from donor car (left the cq untouched so I could still drive it)

      Moved the engine to a stand for clean up and for mounting all of the correct manifolds/ accessories

      I also installed an 034ms Phenolic Spacer, keeps temps down, it is really nice product.


      with rail in place

      Stripping the CQ:

      I removed the Heaterbox, however this doesn't need to be done, I was swapping in a Manual Box since I hate the Auto CC that came in this car.



      I later removed the Battery tray, that is where the intake charge pipe runs, so it is kinda in the way.

      I relocated my battery to the trunk, i used the stock wiring from the URS4(the battery location for that is under the seat) this wiring actually has two main parts from the battery, one that runs to the fuse box, one that runs under the hood. the one that runs under the hood actually splits at the firewall and has a "positive post" to run power or for jump starts, and then the second wire runs to the starter.

      Wiring, not fun but can be done. I contacted Paul of S2Central, and he ended up making a PDF File that shows every connection, and where it goes what it is for. It was a life saver http://s2central.net/main_frame.html


      Honestly, the wiring was the part that scared me the most, however with the pdf file i talked about it was a breeze.

      Once the engine was in its new home, I changed out the harmonic balancer, mine was over torqued and I didn't want to do it on the engine stand.


      Everything hooked up as it should, in the engine bay the only thing that i needed to change was the connection for the reverse light, the transmission had a different size plug, i could have just cut and spliced, however I wanted to keep the harness in one piece so I actually made an adapter to go between the old connector on the transmission and the new connection on the harness. I ran a new ground wire from the block to the motor mount.

      There are a few small connectors inside the car that did not hook up as planned, but it runs without them.

      The water line to the turbo didn't match up, it was in the way of my PS pump so I had to make an adjustment:

      This is how the stock aby hose is ran, you can actually see it cut out in the timing belt cover to make room for the hose to be re-routed.

      After getting all of the wiring ran and in place, all of the fuse box back how it should look, and getting all of the random hoses and vacuum lines hooked up i attempted to start the car. I turned it quickly to see if the starter would spin, it did, so I turned off the car, turned it on a couple times without engaging the starter to prime the fuel pump and to refill the fuel lines, gave it a turn and it started on the first try. I was pretty surprised and very happy. I would strongly recommend going this route as it was affordable and easy, no drama and it has good results.


      *this is a work in progress I'll update and probably change around a few things*

      Last edited by Hybrid_Hatch; 02-22-2011 at 12:00 PM.

    2. 10-20-2009 09:15 PM #2
      Wow! I love the fact that this was a 'total' post. I can never keep up with the "i armoral'd the engine plastic today" posts, in those on-going deals.
      Seeing this kind of effort never ceases to amaze me, especially since this was funded by an alternative method. Buying the s4 was the smartest thing you did, besides the wiring in a different frame of light.

      .......oh yeah, more pics!


      Modified by ebtastic at 7:17 PM 10-20-2009

    3. 10-21-2009 09:30 AM #3
      Great post....I like how you gave us the play by play...
      I am going to be doing some work on my 94....I will try to post pics as well..
      Just ordered all my parts....now need to locate special tools for timing belt..

    4. Geriatric Member Chapel's Avatar
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      12-02-2009 03:38 PM #4
      you chronicling this on MG?

      You should do the EFI Express Coilpack setup and use your 7A valve cover.

      Also, are you using the 7A camshafts? 034 proved they gave some EXCELLENT top end power on the AAN turbo motors!


      Modified by Chapel at 3:40 PM 12-2-2009


    5. Member Hybrid_Hatch's Avatar
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      12-04-2009 03:22 PM #5
      Quote, originally posted by Chapel »
      you chronicling this on MG?

      You should do the EFI Express Coilpack setup and use your 7A valve cover.

      Also, are you using the 7A camshafts? 034 proved they gave some EXCELLENT top end power on the AAN turbo motors!


      Modified by Chapel at 3:40 PM 12-2-2009

      my progress was logged on MG, however I thought it would be nice to compile my months of progress into one post with lots of information and pictures, makes it a little easier to see.

      Eventually I'll go to a new Coil set up, just trying to keep my priorities straight for now, I need my Porsche brakes installed first, then refresh the suspension, then we'll talk about coil packs and a 6 speed transmission, and then of course rs2 turbo... the fun never ends!


    6. Member Hybrid_Hatch's Avatar
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      07-09-2010 04:40 PM #6
      Car has been great for the last year, recently had an overheating issue due to a broken bit of plastic... Now it is getting a new Headgasket...

      Porsche 996 Brakes have been installed
      RS2 Turbo and 034 Software is installed
      6 Speed and linkage is sitting on a shelf just waiting...

    7. Junior Member
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      09-01-2010 01:07 PM #7
      Did you already sell off all of the cq parts? I just started a 1991 CQ restoration project. Great post =]

    8. Member Hybrid_Hatch's Avatar
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      09-02-2010 03:00 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by Paradox11235 View Post
      Did you already sell off all of the cq parts? I just started a 1991 CQ restoration project. Great post =]
      Depends what you are looking for, i have a garage full of parts.

    9. Junior Member
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      09-06-2010 03:16 AM #9
      I'm hoping i have everything i need to get it running, but worst case scenario i may need to replace the brake booster. I'm hoping it's just air in the brake lines, haven't had a chance to do much with it yet. Did you change out the CQ interior? I'm hoping to do an S2 conversion somewhere down the road

    10. Member Hybrid_Hatch's Avatar
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      09-07-2010 10:17 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Paradox11235 View Post
      I'm hoping i have everything i need to get it running, but worst case scenario i may need to replace the brake booster. I'm hoping it's just air in the brake lines, haven't had a chance to do much with it yet. Did you change out the CQ interior? I'm hoping to do an S2 conversion somewhere down the road
      nope, still has the stock CQ interior, except the wood trim, I sourced perforated leather trim from an S2 in Europe.

    11. Junior Member
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      09-07-2010 05:12 PM #11
      Very nice. I'll probably just keep the woodgrain, i have the tan interior. Feel like swapping for black or gray would be way too much work

    12. Member Hybrid_Hatch's Avatar
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      10-06-2010 05:16 PM #12
      Some updates:

      installed rear euro bumper:
      before:

      after:


      Installed BBK:


      Installed s2 cluster and steering wheel


      Drove it to a track event, lost a coolant hose on the way there and warped my head:




      now i'm rebuilding it with a Volvo turbo, this is the rs2 turbo next to the volvo turbo that is replacing it:


      and here it is as it sits today, almost back together:

    13. 10-06-2010 05:59 PM #13
      Wow man, nice work! cant wait to see it back togetehr again.

    14. Senior Member MFZERO's Avatar
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      10-07-2010 02:35 PM #14
      nice work! planning a head make a great deal of things easier when building a project car.


    15. 12-19-2010 11:08 PM #15
      I've owned a 90 90Q 20v since new. 225k km later I still love the car, but with two turbo Audis (95.5 S6 and 02 TT roadster) I know it just needed some grunt.

      2 month's ago I happened upon an 89 90Q on eBay which had been converted with a 3B engine. It had been damaged in the front end and the owner didn't want to fix it. I bought it and shipped it across the USA.

      What approach do you suggest? What parts will I need? Do you still have the pdf wiring document?

    16. Member Hybrid_Hatch's Avatar
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      12-20-2010 10:56 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by bpleet View Post
      I've owned a 90 90Q 20v since new. 225k km later I still love the car, but with two turbo Audis (95.5 S6 and 02 TT roadster) I know it just needed some grunt.

      2 month's ago I happened upon an 89 90Q on eBay which had been converted with a 3B engine. It had been damaged in the front end and the owner didn't want to fix it. I bought it and shipped it across the USA.

      What approach do you suggest? What parts will I need? Do you still have the pdf wiring document?


      Where are you located? if the engine has already been swapped why would you need to get more parts or get a wiring documents? are you planning on swapping it into your 90? the engine bays are nearly identical and the wiring inside the cab is identical, so you should be able to swap over everything directly into your car, the only thing that might be in a different position is the cars factory fuel lines, which you would just have to get different ones made.

    17. 12-22-2010 12:19 AM #17
      I'm in Calgary, AB. This is by far the largest shade tree project I've attempted.

      I'm concerned because the PO who did the engine swap clearly cut corners. He did not install the engine mount in the front of the engine. He used 3 L brackets riveted to the intercooler to attach it to the inside of the bumper frame. He did not use the L&R rubber engine mounts, just built some from large bolts and nuts. The L engine support snapped in the accident, likely because there was no give from the mounts. In the accident the intercooler tank was smashed, the radiator top tank inlet broken and the alternator belt (on the Lside) was caught in the pulley. The rad hoses appear to be fabricated from pipes and hoses with multiple hose clamps. The ECU is tied to the underside of the steering wheel and the cover would not fit. He installed 5 bolt hubs, gas struts, with 17" wheels and upgraded (he says) the front and rear brakes to 5000 era calipers.

      My 90Q has been loving cared for since new. Three years ago the head was rebuilt and timing belt replaced. It's had <20k km since. Last year I replaced the steering rack, put in a re-manufactured PS pump. It was professionally repainted Tornado Red and looks like new.

      I thought I'd get the 90 with the 3B running, as is, then swap out the engine. I ordered a new rad and used intercooler from a 91 200. My local tuner is suggesting that before swapping I install a new ECU (size of a cigarette pack), because it has more flexibility for tuning and trouble shooting. My better half loves her car, as do I. However I know that any reliability issues will quickly sour that feeling.

      I'll eventually sell the 7A and one of the drive trains to offset some of the conversion cost, but I want to do it right the first time.

      I've had help in the past, but my buddy now works for Ferrari and has no time to coach me on Sundays. You clearly have the experience.

      Support appreciated.

    18. 10-27-2011 12:08 PM #18
      Hi Hybrid Hatch
      I just bought a Q with an AAN engine swap in place , drove it over 100km home , no problems, but the PO did the swap, connected the basics and the is all : the fuel gauge is the only one the works, no other gauges are working/not connected, it also needs the ABY intake manifold and some hardware to position the rad away from the back of the enginabay and angled - not enough airflow.
      Also no room for the AC with the original IM.
      I would love to get in touch with you , hopefully in person to get some help if possible. I am in Toronto, Canada.
      \

    19. 11-04-2011 10:50 AM #19
      Hybrid_Hatch, your inbox is full

    20. 11-10-2011 01:28 PM #20
      even thought i never seen it in person but me and him were building our coupes almost at the same time.. we both picked each others brains..

      if anyone need any help with anything please let me know maybe i could help...
      email me kido2416@gmail.com

    21. 11-27-2011 09:23 PM #21
      Followed this on other forums, and have to say, glad you put everything into a RD condensed version.

      Could you elaborate more on your brakes and hub swap? (whys, clearance, and costs, etc)

      Cheers!
      Brilliant Black 1990 Coupe quattro /// Project: Refurb
      B6LA007522

      Cayenne Metallic 1990 Coupe quattro /// Project: Daily Driver
      B6LA010727

    22. Member Hybrid_Hatch's Avatar
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      11-27-2011 09:46 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by PRY4SNO View Post
      Followed this on other forums, and have to say, glad you put everything into a RD condensed version.

      Could you elaborate more on your brakes and hub swap? (whys, clearance, and costs, etc)

      Cheers!
      I went with OEM s2 hubs, I paid 400 usd shipped from england, originally I used the stock cq brakes and rotors and just had the stock rotors redrilled to the correct brake pattern, I have since upgraded to oem rs2 brake brackets with porsche 996 calipers and audi s8 rotors, everything was bolt on with good clearances. I even still run stock brake lines. I plan on going with stainless steel lines in the near future.

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      12-16-2011 04:05 AM #23
      Wow

    24. Member Hybrid_Hatch's Avatar
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      12-29-2011 05:42 PM #24
      I didn't realize how little i had posted in this thread, here are some more current shots of the coupe.












      suspension upgrade, kw variants




      Darin's friend, darin, and me by hanks car:






      Last edited by Hybrid_Hatch; 12-29-2011 at 05:45 PM.

    25. Junior Member FLUXUS's Avatar
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      01-06-2012 05:11 PM #25
      Way back when you mentioned you had a garage full of parts. I just bought my 90CQ (pearl/black). You wouldn't happen to have a pair of subframes in decent condition by chance? Mine are rusty... poor thing lived in wet climates before now.

      Thanks,
      JLS

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      01-07-2012 07:51 PM #26
      pm if Dave doesnt have subframe.

    27. Member Hybrid_Hatch's Avatar
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      03-30-2012 12:07 PM #27


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