Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread

[carsluTT]

i may revamp my ducting to allow for a maf soon just making sure with this latest update if i chose to start a new file i get to the right path for not having a maf in the mix at this time. i did see the pull down for different maf housing, that is really nice. being able to so easily adjust for changes makes me more comfortable going back to using a maf. thanks for all the tips, i have not had much time for tuning my car in the past 6 months now and with the software changes there are many things ill need to get up to speed on. im happy to see this software didn't die out after its first year on the market.

[RabbitGTDguy]

Have you changed any of the fault code settings related to the intake cam timing? There are 3-4 items in this section which you'll want to set to "0".

Doug,

Haven't tried this...may give it a try though...I did see it there but didn't know if that would "properly" solve the issue.

We need to talk...I'm seriously consider an upgrade...this stuff makes a build TOOO tempting...

Joe

[RabbitGTDguy]

are you still having this issue? i just checked and im able to see something like 15 base files for AWP. i had to completely reinstall the software before i could see any base files. odd thing is all of them are listed for use with a MAF..... i prefer to run mafless..... i wonder why there are are no mafless base files.

Yep...still having same problem.

When you say "delete all software". Do you mean just the Maestro program or all of it. Editor, Flash and the Loggers....?

I tried removing and reinstalling Maestro itself to no avail.

Its pretty annoying.

An email in earlier last week...no reply

One later in the week...no reply. Called and left a message....never have gotten anything back.

Joe

[spartiati]

Yep...still having same problem.

When you say "delete all software". Do you mean just the Maestro program or all of it. Editor, Flash and the Loggers....?

I tried removing and reinstalling Maestro itself to no avail.

Its pretty annoying.

An email in earlier last week...no reply

One later in the week...no reply. Called and left a message....never have gotten anything back.

Joe

Delete the folder entirely and redownload the files. that should do it

[sabbySC]

Did we ever determine why the EGT threshold for full load lambda is set higher in the vvt files?

Is there any harm in lowering the number to make using the full load lambda map used earlier? I was thinking this may help make things easier, but I might be a little off path again.

[tojr1088]

does egt threshold even matter for most cars. idk about volkswagen but for audi no b5 has egt sensors. only s4s do. what cars even use this map?

[Cryser]

Did we ever determine why the EGT threshold for full load lambda is set higher in the vvt files?

Is there any harm in lowering the number to make using the full load lambda map used earlier? I was thinking this may help make things easier, but I might be a little off path again.

The VVT files use the power enrichment map for what I remember seeing. I still don't have my cable back from repair so I can't check but is there even values filled in for the full load lambda map on the VVT files as I remember it was set at such a high value that would never be hit.

Power enrichment is a much better way to control fuel as it is not a reactive map so your fueling is there when you need it not after a threshold is met and always trying to catch up so to speak.

Power enrichment goes of your requested torque and rpm, the smaller resolution is not a problem once you understand the map and how to use it.

The EGT threshold is there for 2 reasons Component Protection(protection from melt down) and because of emissions(it keeps the car at 14.7 for as long as humanly possible before that threshold is hit).

The EGT threshold has effect on timing as well as fueling, hence another reason to tune fueling with the power enrichment(LAMFA) map so you get the optimized timing and it doesn't get retarded by component protection.

I'm pretty sure I explained all this in more detail in a few of my post if you really want more in depth information on why the EGT map is used and why tuners began to tune with it. But that's the gist of it.

[badger5]

The VVT files use the power enrichment map for what I remember seeing. I still don't have my cable back from repair so I can't check but is there even values filled in for the full load lambda map on the VVT files as I remember it was set at such a high value that would never be hit.

Power enrichment is a much better way to control fuel as it is not a reactive map so your fueling is there when you need it not after a threshold is met and always trying to catch up so to speak.

Power enrichment goes of your requested torque and rpm, the smaller resolution is not a problem once you understand the map and how to use it.

The EGT threshold is there for 2 reasons Component Protection(protection from melt down) and because of emissions(it keeps the car at 14.7 for as long as humanly possible before that threshold is hit).

The EGT threshold has effect on timing as well as fueling, hence another reason to tune fueling with the power enrichment(LAMFA) map so you get the optimized timing and it doesn't get retarded by component protection.

I'm pretty sure I explained all this in more detail in a few of my post if you really want more in depth information on why the EGT map is used and why tuners began to tune with it. But that's the gist of it.

not maestro directly related.. as I dont know what its called in maestro vs damos original.
there are 2 commonly used lambda control maps.. requested and actual.. LAMFA being requested afr, and as stock concession to "richer" is only last column set to 0.953 lambda vs 1.000 across the rest.. and the other is KFLBTS which also has related compensation map (which often gets set flat to stop it interfering), and a calculated egt threshold of typically 820'c before it becomes "active".. Some tuners, choose to alter the egt threshold lower so BTS is the one being used (its a better resolution map) and some others leave it at 820'c.

the whole me7 is deisgned to operate around lambda 1.

[sabbySC]

Thanks.

There are definately values in the full load lambda table for the vvt files. What I believe was happening to me was this. I had misadjusted the alpha n table and consequently was sitting at radically low numbers for engine load, this was making me target the wrong af values. I had looked at the full load table/egt threshold as a way to safeguard while trying to figure out what I was doing wrong.

[doug@frankenturbo.com]

VVT and an EGT probe here (wideband TT225). Power enrichment map is active until that threshold is crossed. But the "wideband model" method of collecting temperatures is inaccurate on all but bone stock cars. As soon as you remove restrictions downstream, the O2 sensor is not properly guessing the upstream temperatures. So generally, the "wideband model" under-reports by a good 100˚c.

My recommendation if you're using that modeling method: keep the ceiling no higher than 899˚.

[TooLFan46n2]

Doug,

Haven't tried this...may give it a try though...I did see it there but didn't know if that would "properly" solve the issue.

We need to talk...I'm seriously consider an upgrade...this stuff makes a build TOOO tempting...

Joe

You can do this but its a bandaid. You have a problem. Like I mentioned previously its probably from using the wrong hardware w/ wrong file. You need to match the the cam tensioner to the tune. Using a non VVT tensioner on a VVT tune may create 2 issues.
1) its been reported that VVT tensioners and non-vvt tensioner seem to run at a different advancement
2) Using a non-vvt tensioner will give incorrect cam angles. Even if you set all cam advancement to 0 your still running off VVT designed torque maps. You need to get the car running off the non-vvt advanced timing maps. I'm not sure if setting the switchover point way low like 800 RPM will have any negative affects but that will switch you into the non VVT torque maps.

[gdoggmoney]

With these files it's just as easy as plugging a MAF in or unplugging it.

If you're running a MAF you need to tune for that MAF. Carslut I know you're a TT guy, the AMU MAF is not the TT225 MAF, it's the BEA MAF-- they are different. The tuning is all under the flowmeter options.

No default calibration for a stock sensor in a 3" housing?

[DougLoBue]

I think the MAF breakdown is:

AWP - AWP MAF - ?? size = small
TT225 - BEA MAF - 70mm ID, 3" OD
3.5 Hitachi - B5 S4 Hitachi MAF - 73mm ID, 86mm OD
V8 S4- B6 S4 MAF - I have one in the garage, I need to measure it. It is NOT 4" OD more like 3.75"

[d18tfoltz]

hey i was looking around and wondered if anyone would know what the acceptable octane would be for the race gas map for example would 93+meth be acceptable or does it have to be 100octane or higher?

[doug@frankenturbo.com]

Run 50/50 mixture water meth and log for the timing pull. That's the surest way to know if the car thinks it's "acceptable".

[RabbitGTDguy]

You can do this but its a bandaid. You have a problem. Like I mentioned previously its probably from using the wrong hardware w/ wrong file. You need to match the the cam tensioner to the tune. Using a non VVT tensioner on a VVT tune may create 2 issues.
1) its been reported that VVT tensioners and non-vvt tensioner seem to run at a different advancement
2) Using a non-vvt tensioner will give incorrect cam angles. Even if you set all cam advancement to 0 your still running off VVT designed torque maps. You need to get the car running off the non-vvt advanced timing maps. I'm not sure if setting the switchover point way low like 800 RPM will have any negative affects but that will switch you into the non VVT torque maps.

Looks like that VVT tensioner I have may find its way in sooner than later...hopefully I can trust a "used" unit.

Otherwise, the AWP file that Doug and I have been messing with is working quite nicely. Getting used to the car with no N75 and such...torque down low still feels off but I haven't had alot of time to tune either. Did get the injector constant nailed down though.

Joe

[tojr1088]

I am using a awp file and my can timing map is set to 18 all the way across. I have a non vvt tensioner. If its the non vvt awp file it should be fine right? Why would they all be set to zero. I noticed my awm base file was all zeroes but Chris said I could use awp files?

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[d18tfoltz]

Run 50/50 mixture water meth and log for the timing pull. That's the surest way to know if the car thinks it's "acceptable".

let me double check here do a pull with the race gas timing map with the water/meth and see if the timing pull is with in specs?

[RabbitGTDguy]

let me double check here do a pull with the race gas timing map with the water/meth and see if the timing pull is with in specs?

Speaking of this...I haven't even started to tune in my WMI yet with the Maestro setup...though feel pretty good about doing it now.

That said...what have people had the best results with? I have my Stg 3 controller dialed in still from the last time around and I don't believe there will be much of a change there...

However, when tuning it in with Maestro...traditionally in the past I used unisettings to make more of a global change to primary fueling (slight) and fuel under load (more significant) to really tune and dial in the WMI. However, these changes are more global in nature really when looking at it (and "quicktune" would serve the same purpose for quick setup).

That said though...is that the best way to go about it. Log...look at timing, 02 values, etc. and then increase primary and fueling under load via QuickTune or should can we look at the individual fueling maps and dial it in even better? Really interested in hearing about someones experience with tuning in the WMI for the best performance. I seriously miss mine right now and I just last week FINALLY found a supplier of 100% methanol that I am now cutting on my own, 50/50 which really should be a nice improvement over spiking the wiper fluid with heat (and the blue crud that comes with it).

Joe

[tojr1088]

Speaking of this...I haven't even started to tune in my WMI yet with the Maestro setup...though feel pretty good about doing it now.

That said...what have people had the best results with? I have my Stg 3 controller dialed in still from the last time around and I don't believe there will be much of a change there...

However, when tuning it in with Maestro...traditionally in the past I used unisettings to make more of a global change to primary fueling (slight) and fuel under load (more significant) to really tune and dial in the WMI. However, these changes are more global in nature really when looking at it (and "quicktune" would serve the same purpose for quick setup).

That said though...is that the best way to go about it. Log...look at timing, 02 values, etc. and then increase primary and fueling under load via QuickTune or should can we look at the individual fueling maps and dial it in even better? Really interested in hearing about someones experience with tuning in the WMI for the best performance. I seriously miss mine right now and I just last week FINALLY found a supplier of 100% methanol that I am now cutting on my own, 50/50 which really should be a nice improvement over spiking the wiper fluid with heat (and the blue crud that comes with it).

Joe

id just run the race timing map and before fueling log timing and make sure your actually getting the timing specified in the maps. if nto you need to adjust torque maps and optimum torque along with getting ur fuel trims low all around until your timing is in spec.

then if needed you can tweak fueling on the acceleration fuel maps for loads and rpm where meth is being injected. you could use main fuel trim maps as well. theres alot of ways to get from a to b

[doug@frankenturbo.com]

No default calibration for a stock sensor in a 3" housing?

Select the TT225 MAF from the drop-down. Your stock 1.8T sensor in a 3" MAF will read comparably. Also, be sure to restore the "flowmeter compensation table" to have value of 1.001 in all fields. Get rid of whatever altered values your map may contain.

[Budsdubbin]

I've been wondering how you guys have been monitoring ETG's with eurodyne logger.... From what I've seen in the logs theres no ETG readings taken so how do you set your threshold?... I know that once you chance exhaust/turbinehousing/manifold it will through off the calibration but you still kind of need to know when you pass that value so that you know when your ecu switches from power enrichment to full load lambda.

[TooLFan46n2]

I've been wondering how you guys have been monitoring ETG's with eurodyne logger.... From what I've seen in the logs theres no ETG readings taken so how do you set your threshold?... I know that once you chance exhaust/turbinehousing/manifold it will through off the calibration but you still kind of need to know when you pass that value so that you know when your ecu switches from power enrichment to full load lambda.

You would need to log this value with a measuring block. I believe there is a block for calculated EGT (and actual on EGT Audi TT's) but I don't have my laptop handy to look it up. It then be beneficial to compare to an actual EGT gauge. Most comparions I have seen show the calculated value is 140-200 degress LESS.

That being said, with an inaccurate EGT scale you will probably never see (unless you have a serious probelm) the FLL map during normal operation with an EGT threshold set 950 like the VVT maps. It should also be noted that the 950 degree EGT threshold is very close to the point where the ECM will start to dump fuel for component protection (only if EGT's exceed threshold & then exceed predetermined threshold for fuel intervention).

[badger5]

You would need to log this value with a measuring block. I believe there is a block for calculated EGT (and actual on EGT Audi TT's) but I don't have my laptop handy to look it up. It then be beneficial to compare to an actual EGT gauge. Most comparions I have seen show the calculated value is 140-200 degress LESS.

That being said, with an inaccurate EGT scale you will probably never see (unless you have a serious probelm) the FLL map during normal operation with an EGT threshold set 950 like the VVT maps. It should also be noted that the 950 degree EGT threshold is very close to the point where the ECM will start to dump fuel for component protection (only if EGT's exceed threshold & then exceed predetermined threshold for fuel intervention).

Is it calculated or looking at the lambda for temps..
the difference is plasuably the same... egt actual probe and lambda heater temp

anyone confirm myth from reality?

[RabbitGTDguy]

I'll tell you what...the next thing to go is SAI, EVAP and N249...which DIY have Maestro users found to be the most friendly. I'm tired of chasing leaks and looking at OEM hose prices...

By the way...if one wanted to tweak a base map with the base map still providing boost control via the N75...and tweak it for "MBC" only...how would you go about doing that? Maybe I missed it, but I'm just having some fun trying to learn a few things on this. Just to learn all the in's and outs.

Joe

[dubinsincuwereindiapers]

Blow through Maf setup. What says the maestro gods on this?

[tojr1088]

Blow through Maf setup. What says the maestro gods on this?

Interested in this too I see alot of dam guys do it and whatnot. Should be ok no? As long as u have an aluminum housing instead of plastic

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[tojr1088]

Interested in this too I see alot of dam guys do it and whatnot. Should be ok no? As long as u have an aluminum housing instead of plastic

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Dsm guys

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[Budsdubbin]

I would assume doing that would shorten the life of the sensor itself why would anyone want to move it past the turbo.

[dubinsincuwereindiapers]

I would assume doing that would shorten the life of the sensor itself why would anyone want to move it past the turbo.

All the advantages of running mafless, without the disadvantages.

[CourtX]

I tried to search entire 1.8T and MKIV forums and this thread for any help regarding a GT25R Turbo installed but could not find anything . I will be running 1000CC Injector Dynamics injectors and am looking for a decent base map I can use until I get my car fine tuned on a dyno. The only 1000cc base maps in Maestro for an AWP seem to be with an S4 MAF or for E85 which I have neither. If anybody has done this and can send me what they have or can give a hand I would greatly appreciate it, Thanks!

[tojr1088]

I tried to search entire 1.8T and MKIV forums and this thread for any help regarding a GT25R Turbo installed but could not find anything . I will be running 1000CC Injector Dynamics injectors and am looking for a decent base map I can use until I get my car fine tuned on a dyno. The only 1000cc base maps in Maestro for an AWP seem to be with an S4 MAF or for E85 which I have neither. If anybody has done this and can send me what they have or can give a hand I would greatly appreciate it, Thanks!

your gonna run 1000cc's on a gt25r lol. why. run 440's or something or 630's. and u dont have to even run a maf it says s4 maf but there are 4 options for mafs which u can see in the maestro program on the flowmeter tab.

[spartiati]

your gonna run 1000cc's on a gt25r lol. why. run 440's or something or 630's. and u dont have to even run a maf it says s4 maf but there are 4 options for mafs which u can see in the maestro program on the flowmeter tab.

That's what I thought. That Turbo with all supporting mods will do 280-300whp. Likely in the 260-280 range. I would sell the 1000 and go for something more appropriate like stated in the post above mine. . Unless you plan to run e85 those injectors are totally overkill.

[tojr1088]

That's what I thought. That Turbo with all supporting mods will do 280-300whp. Likely in the 260-280 range. I would sell the 1000 and go for something more appropriate like stated in the post above mine. . Unless you plan to run e85 those injectors are totally overkill.

i know im running a 3082 and i havent even maxxed my 630's yet

[CourtX]

Because I already had them haha. I was planning on doing a much bigger build with a 3071 or so, but some things came up so I went with a smaller turbo to keep the car very street-able for now and save $$. Was hoping I could still just rock it with these injectors so when I eventually follow up with my plans for doing a much bigger build I will not have to buy them again. kinda smart?