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    Thread: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread

    1. Member d18tfoltz's Avatar
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      05-12-2012 07:15 PM #2766
      Quote Originally Posted by tojr1088 View Post
      Email me your logs my email is tomr1088@Cox.net

      Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
      e-mail sent

    2. Member SGTphatboy's Avatar
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      05-13-2012 09:25 AM #2767
      ok dyno used was a hub dyno(wheels come off and it attatches to your hubs. never seen this before) numbers will appear to be really low: 309whp and 267wtq were my best numbers with the 18% conversion would put me to 365whp and 315wtq. I went to adjust a few things with the help of www.VEMS.com and it would not allow me to save the new file. any help here would be greatly appreciated, as you will see there is a major dip in afr.
      all these pulls were in 3rd gear. i also have data logs of each run

      engine mods are as follows:
      GT3071R w/ vband discharge
      Eurodyne 630cc mafless file(with maestro7 suite)
      mounting stud kit
      Tial MVS WG 1 bar (38mm)
      3inch downpipe w/ dump tube and clamp
      SEM 80mm intake manifold
      75mm TB from INA
      custom (purple) cams from bobq
      super tech valve springs form bobq
      rods form integrated engineering
      ACL rod bearings(w/tang)
      Piston rings OEM set
      Supertech Inconel Exhaust Valve set
      Supertech SS Nitrided Intakes Valve set
      custom port and polish
      snow performance stage2 water/meth
      walbro 255 inline fuel pump to go with apr intank fuel pump
      greddy profec bspec type 2 elctronic boost controller.
      arp head bolts
      hot deck and plain



      Last edited by SGTphatboy; 05-13-2012 at 09:41 AM.
      PAGPARTS /SEM / INA / EURODYNE / FFERACING
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    3. Member d18tfoltz's Avatar
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      05-13-2012 08:05 PM #2768
      ok i have another issue i was trying to figure how to adjust the alpha n and throttle angle vs. airflow considering i have a mafless tune. my question is how can i get the value from the maf w/out hooking the maf to the ecu last time i tried that may car ran like poo. is there a program i can get to where i can use the maf kinda like a stand alone maf so i can get the values for alpha n and throttle angle vs. airflow? if anyone has any experiance with this please chime in or a file tuned for a sem mani and 80mm tb and would be willing to share would be great.

    4. Member Rac_337's Avatar
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      05-13-2012 08:24 PM #2769
      Quote Originally Posted by SGTphatboy View Post
      ok dyno used was a hub dyno(wheels come off and it attatches to your hubs. never seen this before) numbers will appear to be really low: 309whp and 267wtq were my best numbers with the 18% conversion would put me to 365whp and 315wtq. I went to adjust a few things with the help of www.VEMS.com and it would not allow me to save the new file. any help here would be greatly appreciated, as you will see there is a major dip in afr.
      all these pulls were in 3rd gear. i also have data logs of each run

      engine mods are as follows:
      GT3071R w/ vband discharge
      Eurodyne 630cc mafless file(with maestro7 suite)
      mounting stud kit
      Tial MVS WG 1 bar (38mm)
      3inch downpipe w/ dump tube and clamp
      SEM 80mm intake manifold
      75mm TB from INA
      custom (purple) cams from bobq
      super tech valve springs form bobq
      rods form integrated engineering
      ACL rod bearings(w/tang)
      Piston rings OEM set
      Supertech Inconel Exhaust Valve set
      Supertech SS Nitrided Intakes Valve set
      custom port and polish
      snow performance stage2 water/meth
      walbro 255 inline fuel pump to go with apr intank fuel pump
      greddy profec bspec type 2 elctronic boost controller.
      arp head bolts
      hot deck and plain



      can you post the logs?

    5. Member Rac_337's Avatar
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      05-13-2012 09:22 PM #2770
      Quote Originally Posted by d18tfoltz View Post
      here they are again not sure what happened i had to upload them agian to google?

      https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2r...XNCM3UxX3hVbUE
      https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2r...kR2YkxEVHZlTUU
      fueling is definitely way off.

      try importing the alpha and tb maps i sent you on your current file and then try that.

      99% sure your over correcting so much because of you 80mm tb.

      what other mods you have? head, intake mani, etc?

    6. Member SGTphatboy's Avatar
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      05-13-2012 10:15 PM #2771
      Quote Originally Posted by Rac_337 View Post
      can you post the logs?
      i can try
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    7. Member SGTphatboy's Avatar
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      05-13-2012 10:22 PM #2772
      whats the best place to upload them photobucket isnt working
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    8. Member Rac_337's Avatar
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      05-13-2012 10:30 PM #2773
      google documents


    9. Member SGTphatboy's Avatar
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      05-13-2012 10:47 PM #2775
      we tried to adjust a few things but the files kept coming up as i need to email eurodyne, then asked for some credits.....not sure what that was about. so we tried quick tune. brought timing +7.5 and started working it down. end up at +3
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    10. Member codergfx's Avatar
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      05-14-2012 10:58 AM #2776
      Guys I have a quick question is there any direct relation between main fuel correction and alpha n? Because I have to compensate about 20-25% on main fuel correction for top end fueling. Would that mean I need to just increase alpha n map in those cells by about same percentages? I'm running maffless on e85
      MY BUILD | 2003 Volkswagen GTI 1.8T | CTT - Carrot Top Tuning - GT3076r, 3" to 2.5" turboback exhaust (vbanded), Tial 38mm wastegate, fx400 6 puck, Peloquin LSD, VF Poly Engine Mounts, Greddy Profec B Type II, walbro 255 inline fuel pump, ID1600cc @ 3bar running on e85. AMB head, AWD bottom end. 434whp 369wtq @ 30psi (OLD: 383 whp 333wtq @ 23 psi)

    11. Member Doooglasss's Avatar
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      05-14-2012 11:19 AM #2777
      Quote Originally Posted by codergfx View Post
      Guys I have a quick question is there any direct relation between main fuel correction and alpha n? Because I have to compensate about 20-25% on main fuel correction for top end fueling. Would that mean I need to just increase alpha n map in those cells by about same percentages? I'm running maffless on e85
      I've gone through exactly whats happening to you. If you're not running out of fuel, you need a MAF to make it work.

      Refer to my thread for 02 corrections by different boost levels:

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...take-two/page6

      I'm running e85 as well, at 20psi I was seeing +10 correction. At 30psi seeing +20 correction and the car was going lean (.95 lambda sometimes 1.0). Added a MAF and the fuel trims fall right into line.

      I feel like there are many parts of the ECU that Maestro doesn't allow us to edit. I've changed both power enrich & full load lambda to all 1.0 values and my car still requests .82 under full boost. It might be the best solution out now to run custom software without going standalone but it's still highly restrictive. I need to be able to edit the actual fuel map to make this run as lean as e85 wants to run while cruising/accelerating.
      Last edited by Doooglasss; 05-14-2012 at 11:27 AM.
      -Doug

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      05-14-2012 11:21 AM #2778
      Quote Originally Posted by DougLoBue View Post
      I've gone through exactly what happening to you. If you're not running out of fuel, you need a MAF to make it work.
      My fuel trims were all over. Put a MAF in? Suddenly all is well. Surprise!

    13. Member codergfx's Avatar
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      05-14-2012 11:51 AM #2779
      Quote Originally Posted by DougLoBue View Post
      I've gone through exactly whats happening to you. If you're not running out of fuel, you need a MAF to make it work.

      Refer to my thread for 02 corrections by different boost levels:

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...take-two/page6

      I'm running e85 as well, at 20psi I was seeing +10 correction. At 30psi seeing +20 correction and the car was going lean (.95 lambda sometimes 1.0). Added a MAF and the fuel trims fall right into line.

      I feel like there are many parts of the ECU that Maestro doesn't allow us to edit. I've changed both power enrich & full load lambda to all 1.0 values and my car still requests .82 under full boost. It might be the best solution out now to run custom software without going standalone but it's still highly restrictive. I need to be able to edit the actual fuel map to make this run as lean as e85 wants to run while cruising/accelerating.
      Well see my fuel is spot on soon as I hit boost my corrections are +-5 but I did that using main fuel correction map. And that's with running varying boost 10-27 psi and full load lamba to request the needed afr with conjunction of power enrich map for partial throttle. I have it run 11.8 afr soon as it hits full boost.
      Last edited by codergfx; 05-14-2012 at 11:57 AM.
      MY BUILD | 2003 Volkswagen GTI 1.8T | CTT - Carrot Top Tuning - GT3076r, 3" to 2.5" turboback exhaust (vbanded), Tial 38mm wastegate, fx400 6 puck, Peloquin LSD, VF Poly Engine Mounts, Greddy Profec B Type II, walbro 255 inline fuel pump, ID1600cc @ 3bar running on e85. AMB head, AWD bottom end. 434whp 369wtq @ 30psi (OLD: 383 whp 333wtq @ 23 psi)

    14. Member Doooglasss's Avatar
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      05-14-2012 12:52 PM #2780
      Quote Originally Posted by codergfx View Post
      Well see my fuel is spot on soon as I hit boost my corrections are +-5 but I did that using main fuel correction map. And that's with running varying boost 10-27 psi and full load lamba to request the needed afr with conjunction of power enrich map for partial throttle. I have it run 11.8 afr soon as it hits full boost.
      Yep my issues were all in boost too but I don't use the main fuel correction map at all.

      You should be running leaner under boost. E85 knocks when rich not lean. Full power should be .82 to .85.
      -Doug

    15. Member d18tfoltz's Avatar
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      05-14-2012 12:58 PM #2781
      Quote Originally Posted by Rac_337 View Post
      fueling is definitely way off.

      try importing the alpha and tb maps i sent you on your current file and then try that.

      99% sure your over correcting so much because of you 80mm tb.

      what other mods you have? head, intake mani, etc?
      not sure why its overcorrecting so much since my fuel trims are good 0.58 -0.75, mods are aeb built head, sem intake, 80mm tb, 870cc siemens, and a lot of others if you need anything else let me know.

    16. Member tojr1088's Avatar
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      05-14-2012 01:14 PM #2782
      Quote Originally Posted by d18tfoltz View Post
      not sure why its overcorrecting so much since my fuel trims are good 0.58 -0.75, mods are aeb built head, sem intake, 80mm tb, 870cc siemens, and a lot of others if you need anything else let me know.
      Omg. Its because of your throttle body end of story. Your fuel trims will be low cause your car will adapt on most cruising situations for the extra air. But then when you go wide open the air difference becomes alot more drastic. The car can only run good wide open or cruising. Until you adjust your alpha n map properly. You have the answer. Now go get a maf and do it

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    17. Member codergfx's Avatar
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      05-14-2012 01:58 PM #2783
      Quote Originally Posted by DougLoBue View Post
      Yep my issues were all in boost too but I don't use the main fuel correction map at all.

      You should be running leaner under boost. E85 knocks when rich not lean. Full power should be .82 to .85.
      I've ran it 11.8 - 12 afr upwards 30+ psi on my 50 trim and had no knock
      MY BUILD | 2003 Volkswagen GTI 1.8T | CTT - Carrot Top Tuning - GT3076r, 3" to 2.5" turboback exhaust (vbanded), Tial 38mm wastegate, fx400 6 puck, Peloquin LSD, VF Poly Engine Mounts, Greddy Profec B Type II, walbro 255 inline fuel pump, ID1600cc @ 3bar running on e85. AMB head, AWD bottom end. 434whp 369wtq @ 30psi (OLD: 383 whp 333wtq @ 23 psi)

    18. Member SGTphatboy's Avatar
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      05-14-2012 07:15 PM #2784
      anyone got any suggestions for help on my tune?
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    19. 05-14-2012 08:49 PM #2785
      Quote Originally Posted by SGTphatboy View Post
      anyone got any suggestions for help on my tune?
      No way to do much without having chris unlock the software for you. Using the quick tune is a temporary bandaid.

    20. Member SGTphatboy's Avatar
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      05-14-2012 11:36 PM #2786
      Quote Originally Posted by spartiati View Post
      No way to do much without having chris unlock the software for you. Using the quick tune is a temporary bandaid.
      I emailed Mr. Tapp 2 days ago and hae not heard back.............
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    21. Junior Member Leon mk1's Avatar
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      Seat Leon 20vt
      05-15-2012 04:57 AM #2787
      anybody else noticed something weird about power enrichment map ?
      its last update (3.1.6) on AWP 630CC S4MAF non vvt base file


      if your eyes cant see - the red line is in this order :
      99.5990 108.8374 139.6015 144.6038 147.6039 100.3803

      also i have another question
      why the 630cc base files are diffrent from vvt to non vvt ?
      non vvt:


      vvt:


      my car is with agu head and vvt tensioner
      but it runs better with the non vvt file
      Last edited by Leon mk1; 05-15-2012 at 05:14 AM.

    22. Member Rac_337's Avatar
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      05-15-2012 06:25 AM #2788
      Quote Originally Posted by Leon mk1 View Post
      anybody else noticed something weird about power enrichment map ?
      its last update (3.1.6) on AWP 630CC S4MAF non vvt base file


      if your eyes cant see - the red line is in this order :
      99.5990 108.8374 139.6015 144.6038 147.6039 100.3803

      also i have another question
      why the 630cc base files are diffrent from vvt to non vvt ?
      non vvt:


      vvt:


      my car is with agu head and vvt tensioner
      but it runs better with the non vvt file
      PE is effectively not enabled for whatever reason

      to enable it rescale the axis

    23. Member Rac_337's Avatar
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      05-15-2012 06:26 AM #2789
      Quote Originally Posted by SGTphatboy View Post
      I emailed Mr. Tapp 2 days ago and hae not heard back.............
      call him

    24. 05-15-2012 08:12 AM #2790
      I have noticed the same differences and you are right the VVT base file doesn't work as well as the NonVVT file. The engine load calculation (without MAF) is way off -> huge O2 corrections (somtimes -15% or +15%... I don't know if it can be solved by changing the Target Filling or the Optimum Engine Torque maps. I don't like the fuel correction maps (MainFuelCorrection and InjectionCorrection maps) way of fixing this knowing that a wrong engine load calculation has also an impact on the computed advance timing.
      Last edited by NeverGiveUp; 05-15-2012 at 11:27 AM.

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      05-15-2012 10:06 AM #2791
      Quote Originally Posted by NeverGiveUp View Post
      I have noticed the same differences and you are right the VVT base file doesn't work as well as the NonVVT file. The engine load calculation (without MAF) is way off -> huge O2 corrections (somtimes -15% or +15%... I don't know if it can be solved by changing the Target Filling or the Optimum Engine Torque maps. I don't like the correction maps way of fixing this knowing that a wrong engine load calculation has also an impact on the computed advance timing.
      MAF. Just do it.

      You have people posting in here and otherwise that have disassembled ME7, and looked at the execution flow.

      These people have no financial incentive to say something works great, and sell it, when the hardware requires a MAF as it's major load determination.

      Search for Rarak69's posts.

    26. Member RaraK69's Avatar
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      05-15-2012 10:38 AM #2792
      Friend brought my attention here, yea search what i said about how a load signal is acquired in the ecu.


      Im looking at what you said, are you talking about converting a NON VVT car to VVT? or are you talking about enabling VVT outside of factory specification?

      im willing to help if i can, however i am NOT a maestro user so i am not aware of his labelling, however i can likely figure it out by looks alone as i am very familiar with maps and this ecu.

    27. 05-15-2012 10:55 AM #2793
      Quote Originally Posted by RaraK69 View Post
      Friend brought my attention here, yea search what i said about how a load signal is acquired in the ecu.


      Im looking at what you said, are you talking about converting a NON VVT car to VVT? or are you talking about enabling VVT outside of factory specification?

      im willing to help if i can, however i am NOT a maestro user so i am not aware of his labelling, however i can likely figure it out by looks alone as i am very familiar with maps and this ecu.
      I have swapped the NonVVT tensioner (from my original AVC engine) to the VVT tensioner (as I swapped my AVC ECU to the AWP ECU which is needed to be used to run Maestro7) and I'm now using the VVT maestro file to make it works. The VVT feature itself is working fine (you can read my posts on the "VVT to make power thread".
      However, I would like to understand which maestro maps would have to be updated (if available in Maestro) in order to have a correct Engine Load value knowing that this data is probably one of those most important information in this type of ECU to compute injection time and advance timing. My both fuel trims are near 0% however, the O2 correction is soemtimes -15% or +15% depending on rpm and Engine Lod. I will post a log later today as soon as I'm back at home.
      All of this without MAF. I know that a MAF would wolve the issue but I already broke an engine due to a bad MAF and I would prefer not to use it anymore.
      Last edited by NeverGiveUp; 05-15-2012 at 10:58 AM.

    28. Member SGTphatboy's Avatar
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      05-15-2012 10:58 AM #2794
      Quote Originally Posted by Rac_337 View Post
      call him
      ok will do when i get out of work, thanks again for the help bud
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    29. Member RaraK69's Avatar
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      05-15-2012 11:05 AM #2795
      Quote Originally Posted by NeverGiveUp View Post
      I have swapped the NonVVT tensioner (from my original AVC engine) to the VVT tensioner (as I swapped my AVC ECU to the AWP ECU which is needed to be used to run Maestro7) and I'm now using the VVT maestro file to make it works. The VVT feature itself is working fine (you can read my posts on the "VVT to make power thread".
      However, I would like to understand which maestro maps would have to be updated (if available in Maestro) in order to have a correct Engine Load value knowing that this data is probably one of those most important information in this type of ECU to compute injection time and advance timing. My both fuel trims are near 0% however, the O2 correction is soemtimes -15% or +15% depending on rpm and Engine Lod. I will post a log later today as soon as I'm back at home.
      All of this without MAF. I know that a MAF would wolve the issue but I already broke an engine due to a bad MAF and I would prefer not to use it anymore.
      Logs will be useful, the oscillations in multiplicative trim can be from a few things, usually its a load issue, and can be fixed by properly setting up KFMIRL, KFMIOP. (optimal torque and load maps) post logs and pictures of both of those maps.

    30. Member Doooglasss's Avatar
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      05-15-2012 11:14 AM #2796
      Quote Originally Posted by RaraK69 View Post
      Logs will be useful, the oscillations in multiplicative trim can be from a few things, usually its a load issue, and can be fixed by properly setting up KFMIRL, KFMIOP. (optimal torque and load maps) post logs and pictures of both of those maps.
      Thanks for your help- I'll be following this since I'm having the same issue with the VVT tune. At idle it will swap between -20 correction all the way to +20 until it stalls itself out. I have not tried VVT with my MAF though- I haven't finished my DV install so that isn't possible yet.
      -Doug

    31. Member SGTphatboy's Avatar
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      05-15-2012 06:53 PM #2797
      so exchanged a few emails tith Mr. Tapp, and solved the editing the flash issue, but when i asked him about how to fix my afr problem and actually getting some power out of this build ......ive yet to recieve a response. this is seriously getting ridiculous. he sells a product yet gives you no info on how to work with it. just expects you to figure it out and or rely on people you have never met before...............seriously frustrated

      might be selling my mafless 630cc me7 soon

      any help would be nice
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      05-15-2012 07:31 PM #2798
      Quote Originally Posted by SGTphatboy View Post
      so exchanged a few emails tith Mr. Tapp, and solved the editing the flash issue, but when i asked him about how to fix my afr problem and actually getting some power out of this build ......ive yet to recieve a response. this is seriously getting ridiculous. he sells a product yet gives you no info on how to work with it. just expects you to figure it out and or rely on people you have never met before...............seriously frustrated

      might be selling my mafless 630cc me7 soon

      any help would be nice



      Yep. And he calls the ecu tables what he wants, without letting you know anything.

      The emperor wears no clothes. I ditched it. If anything I would get further with free tools and ecu definitions from nefmoto. At least you can read the funkshramen.

      A little birdie tells me Modassport documentation may have clues. Oh wait that's what I had to read to get my maestro car to not foul plugs daily

    33. 05-15-2012 07:58 PM #2799
      My current setup:

      Stock displacement
      GT2871R 0,86A/R turbine housing
      AGU ported head with supertech valves
      stock cams
      stock pistons
      pauter rods
      FMIC
      630cc Siemens at 3bars
      SEM IM
      Stock TB
      ATP exhaust manifold
      3" full exhaust without CAT
      No MAF
      VVT tensioner
      Maestro7 NonVVT or VVT file

      Here are some logs (all in 4th gear):

      MainFuelCorrection and InjectionCorrection maps are all set to 1.0000 (no correction).
      Fuel trims are both near 0%.

      Raw data from my last pull May 1st with VVT intake advance activated up to 5300rpm.
      https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...DRkUGVnV1JaTEE


      Comparisons with some other previous setups:
      https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...XgxVkE5VTctMFE
      Last edited by NeverGiveUp; 05-16-2012 at 04:05 AM.

    34. 05-15-2012 08:08 PM #2800
      Can you see those graphics from my 2nd link?

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