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    Thread: TDI vs. GTI

    1. 10-29-2009 11:58 AM #1
      I am facing a tough decision: picking between a Golf TDI and GTI. A "similarly" equipped TDI is $1100 less than GTI. Including the $1700 tax credit, it is close to $2800.

      I know the trade-offs are personal and subjective, what would you do?

      Your opinions are welcome.

      Thanks in advance.


    2. Junior Member 08vwjettaboi's Avatar
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      10-29-2009 12:11 PM #2
      Quote, originally posted by GreenDice »
      I am facing a tough decision: picking between a Golf TDI and GTI. A "similarly" equipped TDI is $1100 less than GTI. Including the $1700 tax credit, it is close to $2800.

      I know the trade-offs are personal and subjective, what would you do?

      Your opinions are welcome.

      Thanks in advance.

      It really depends on what your looking for? are you looking for more fuel economy, or something more sporty. I was given the same option from the dealer as well. They were suggesting a fully loaded GTI because i didnt quite qualify in financing for the TDI. Moving from a 2008 Jetta 2.5 to a GTI made no sense for me fuel economy wise as it only changes 2-3 mpg's.

      I personally would rather have the fuel economy so i save money by going further per tank. i really loved the GTI that the dealer had, but would rather save. but, to each their own.

      ||||||||||||
      Mine: 2011 VW Golf TDI | Candy Whit | 4-door | 6-Speed DSG | RNS-510
      His: 2006 VW Passat VE | Granite Green | 4-door | 6-speed Triptronic | RCD-510

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      10-29-2009 12:15 PM #3
      I was in a similar dilemma.

      The TDI is more practical in the sense that it gets better fuel economy, but the GTI is a bit faster and the interior appointments are better.

      It's really a personal choice on what you value and how you plan to use the car. I went with the GTI, but ideally I would take a GTI with the TDI engine. That being said, I wasn't going to wait to see if the GTD ever makes it to the U.S.

      2010 GTI & 2002 Passat Wagon

    4. 10-29-2009 01:30 PM #4
      Are there anyone who drove both? I would like to hear their opinion comparing these two cars too? I test drove the GTI, but I couldn't find a TDI to test drive. And now I am wondering whether I should wait for the TDI, or I should get the GTI now.

      I really liked the GTI by the way. People on various forums, and on various car magazine reviews, they say so many nice things about the TDI; and that makes me wonder how good it is. I mean, if we exclude the fuel economy issue, as a car is it that much better than even the GTI? At the moment, my primary concern is not the fuel economy. I will be already spending a lot of money on a new car, so I don't care about few thousand that I can save down the road, nor about the $1700 that I can save right now. I don't want to sound like money is not important to me. My point is that if I am already spending around $25000 on a new car, I don't want to sacrifice a good car for a couple of thousands.

      On the other hand, GTI's straight line speed doesn't interest me much either. But it was such a solid car when I test drove it that it gave me the impression that I was driving a really expensive German car. Handling, engine and exhaust sounds, steering feel, refinement, and ride quality, and the way it was distributing its torque and horse power while accelerating were excellent, and better than many cars that I owned and drove.

      But since I didn't drive the TDI, maybe those characteristics are also present in the TDI. If anyone were able to test drive both, I would be happy to hear their opinions.

      By the way, my single problem with the GTI was the red stitching that I thought was overdone. I mean with the leather seats, they seem to be OK, but with the cloth seats, red stitching seemed to be all over the car. But that is not a deal breaker.


    5. 10-29-2009 01:31 PM #5
      I was told that both cars have good resale values. I am almost certain TDI retain its value better than GTI. Does anyone have a feel on percentages?
      2-5% better over 3 years?

      I am not necessarily looking for a fast car. I prefer top-gear quickness. I was hoping the TDI equals GTI in that area. However, I was not impressed with the 2010 Jetta TDI during a recent test drive. The dealer did not have any Golf TDI and there were only 20 miles on that jetta TDI. Was that a fair comparison? Will the Golf TDI perform better after breaking in?

      Thanks.


    6. Member oktoberfest's Avatar
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      10-29-2009 01:38 PM #6
      Quote, originally posted by GreenDice »
      I am not necessarily looking for a fast car. I prefer top-gear quickness. I was hoping the TDI equals GTI in that area. However, I was not impressed with the 2010 Jetta TDI during a recent test drive. The dealer did not have any Golf TDI and there were only 20 miles on that jetta TDI. Was that a fair comparison? Will the Golf TDI perform better after breaking in?

      Thanks.

      The Jetta and Golf TDIs have the same powertrain. The Golf is a little lighter, I believe, so it may feel very slightly quicker in acceleration. The Golf TDI has 'sport suspension' so it'll feel sharper than the Jetta in the handling dept.


    7. 10-29-2009 07:58 PM #7
      I went with GTI because of its handling and build quality. I think going with TDI is a compromise for me. I don't drive enough to get the benefit of better mpg. GTI is 24mpg in city which is not bad at all.

      Ordered a 2-door Tornado Red DSG. The only option is the Xenon light.


    8. Member Blonde Guy's Avatar
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      10-29-2009 08:52 PM #8
      I see that today the price of oil is about $80 per barrel. As the world economy improves, I predict that the price of automobile fuel is going up. Way, way up. I keep my cars a long time, and the difference in the cost of fuel between the TDI and the GTI over the lifetime of the car may be $25000.

      I think a reasonable baseline cost for calculations is $10/gal.


    9. Member dmorrow's Avatar
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      10-30-2009 09:58 AM #9
      Quote, originally posted by Blonde Guy »
      I keep my cars a long time, and the difference in the cost of fuel between the TDI and the GTI over the lifetime of the car may be $25000.

      I think a reasonable baseline cost for calculations is $10/gal.

      How long are you planning on keeping the car and when do you think gas will hit $10/gallon?

      From the website below it estimates the fuel cost on an automatic GTI to be about $1565/year and on the Golf TDI automatic $1160, so right now about $405 per year. Unless things change radically you are looking at almost 62 years to save the $25k. But, if you are thinking about money for the two cars, they do estimate about $33 a month extra for the GTI for fuel (or a little over a dollar a day).

      http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm

      One question, why is the GTI DSG and Manual have so a big difference in fuel ratings on the EPA site? Seems like too much difference, DSG - 24/32 and manual 21/31 which equates to about $127 a year (still doesn't pay for the DSG but helps some). Have they not tested the most recent version of the manual GTI (TSFI instead of FSI)? The DSG Golf TDI has almost exactly the same mileage as the manual.


    10. Member Short Bus's Avatar
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      10-30-2009 10:18 AM #10
      I'm sure the TDI is a fantastic car... but I wanted the sporty option.

    11. Member matos's Avatar
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      10-30-2009 10:22 AM #11
      Well what you save or not on annual gas cost depends on how much mileage you do.
      When I was in that dilemma I used the fueleconomy.org calculator with my values (kms, % of city vs hwy, price of premium gas vs diesel up here...etc...) and I could save up to 1200$ a year in fuel only.

      That's what made me make up my mind and order a TDI.
      Considering I get an Highline TDI (sports leather seats, sunroof, fully equiped) for the exact same price as a base GTI (plaid seats, no sunroof, denvers), I'll definetely be saving a lot on long term ownership.


    12. Member afrost's Avatar
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      10-30-2009 10:45 AM #12
      If fuel goes to $10 a gallon I will start riding my bicycle.

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      10-31-2009 10:36 AM #13
      Quote, originally posted by Blonde Guy »
      I keep my cars a long time, and the difference in the cost of fuel between the TDI and the GTI over the lifetime of the car may be $25000.

      I think a reasonable baseline cost for calculations is $10/gal.

      The biggest hole that I can find in your analysis is that the spread between gasoline and diesel is somehow fixed, in which case you assume there will be a savings by driving the more fuel efficient TDI. Gas and diesel are price sensitive to different inputs and basically no one knows what that will look like 5-10 years from now.


      2010 GTI & 2002 Passat Wagon

    14. Member SoSuMi's Avatar
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      10-31-2009 11:25 AM #14
      Quote, originally posted by Junius Spencer »

      The biggest hole that I can find in your analysis is that the spread between gasoline and diesel is somehow fixed, in which case you assume there will be a savings by driving the more fuel efficient TDI. Gas and diesel are price sensitive to different inputs and basically no one knows what that will look like 5-10 years from now.


      So true. If I was in a similar postion to the OP, I'd go with the GTI too. But OTOH, if the GTD was available over here... I'd probably end up filling my tank at truck stops. And we all know that's where the hot chick action is

      ____________________

      Byron

    15. Senior Member mujjuman's Avatar
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      10-31-2009 09:19 PM #15
      If you have to ask, GTI.

      The TDI gives you more gas mileage, but it would be lacking quite a bit in the (stock) sporty factor.

      mujjuman

    16. 10-31-2009 10:11 PM #16
      My final analysis is the same. I am willing to pay more for gas to get more fun/enjoyment. If I want to save money, I can buy another Honda Fit. I know the TDI is a very good compromise between gas mileage and fun/enjoyment. However, I change car every 3 years. I don't want to drive a compromise for 3 years and save several thousand dollars. I really want a GTI. Therefore I order a GTI at the end.

    17. Member rafiki2's Avatar
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      10-31-2009 11:18 PM #17
      fair choice. i feel like the tdi is a great car, but if you have to ask between the 2 i feel like most would lean towards the gti. only because you asked. the tdi would be a great car for a lot of people that dont care about all the bells and wistles that you read about on here


    18. Senior Member mujjuman's Avatar
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      11-01-2009 04:27 AM #18
      Quote, originally posted by GreenDice »
      My final analysis is the same. I am willing to pay more for gas to get more fun/enjoyment. If I want to save money, I can buy another Honda Fit. I know the TDI is a very good compromise between gas mileage and fun/enjoyment. However, I change car every 3 years. I don't want to drive a compromise for 3 years and save several thousand dollars. I really want a GTI. Therefore I order a GTI at the end.

      go for it! and post pics.

      mujjuman

    19. 11-01-2009 05:49 PM #19
      When the news came out that the TDI is coming back, I was pretty certain that it would be my next car. But when the price for the TDI came out I was pretty certain what my next car would be...GTI

      The TDI's price isn't too far from the base price of a GTI hence it gets my vote.


    20. 11-02-2009 08:56 AM #20
      Quote, originally posted by GreenDice »
      I know the trade-offs are personal and subjective, what would you do?

      Your opinions are welcome.


      Since you asked...

      What I would do is, before I made this thread, I would've looked through the other topics to make sure I wasn't being somewhat redundant:

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4596687
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4617117
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4621912
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4624146
      (and I probably missed a couple)

      That way, the same people don't have to keep repeating themselves just for you, and it makes it easier for everyone else if all of the comments could be kept together.

      no one cares what you think in real life...
      how do you figure the internet makes it any better.

    21. 11-02-2009 10:02 AM #21
      Yes. I did look at most of the threads you listed. I missed the one that asked for comments from TDI owners. My question is really targeted for potential buyers who are in the same boat as I am.

      It is not my intention to ask people to repeat themselves just for me. There are definitely opinions expressed in many threads. I thought it is a good time to ask this question because Golf TDI are now showing up. People might have test drove both and offer first-hand experience.

      I might not be good in searching but I am not too lazy to search.


    22. 11-02-2009 12:58 PM #22
      I am debating the same issue and have read through the threads also. There are a some factors I haven't seen mentioned that I am wondering about. How would the decision be affected by getting a 3 year/15K per year lease instead of buying? With a lease, I won't have the long term resale value, though perhaps residual will offset that some. Also, how would it compare with the GTI at $200 over invoice vs TDI at MSRP? This makes the price much closer initially, but without the tax credit. I'm guessing that would still apply to a lease. I am guessing that a lease at these prices makes the two much closer. Then, the primary differences I see are interior appointments and performance vs mileage and the $400-500/year fuel savings.

      Tim


    23. 11-02-2009 02:28 PM #23
      I was told that the tax credit only applied to buying. With leasing, you never really bought the car, therefore there is no tax credit.

      With TDI, I think the cheapest way is likely purchase.



      Modified by GreenDice at 11:30 AM 11-2-2009


    24. Junior Member ManMachine's Avatar
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      12-07-2009 04:30 PM #24
      I'm also wondering about the choice here.

      My main question, if planning to keep it for a long time, which one will be more reliable? (assuming getting the 6MT version.) diesel engines used to be more reliable but is it still true? and what about build quality?

      The cost difference seems like a moving target, since supply/demand changes the equation a bit.

      Thanks.


    25. 12-07-2009 06:27 PM #25
      There's no inherent reason why a TDI would be more reliable than the TFSI...

      In fact, I think many would say that for the first few years of this new common rail diesel with all it's exhaust wizardry it would probably be best to wait it out and see how they do with a lot of miles on them... I bought one just because I'm not too worried about it. We'll see what happens.


    26. 12-07-2009 06:32 PM #26
      I think I have a good perspective on this issue as I have a 2010 JSW TDI with 6MT, and my wife has a 2006 A3 with 6MT. I consider the Audi to be functionally similar to the GTI in terms of performance, having driven the current MKVI GTI, as well. I also owned a 2008 Passat wagon with the 2.0T and 6MT until jerk in a GM SUV lost control of his vehicle and plowed me sideways in the guiderail on the GSP.

      The A3/GTI is quicker, no doubt about it. there's a *whee!!!* factor when you cut the car loose on a straight away that you just don't get from the TDI. The A3/GTI handles better and returns good mileage (my wife averages 31 mpg in mixed driving, I got 32 in my Passat) power is available anywhere in the tach, and it's easy to drive.

      The TDI is slower. It's not dangerously slow, but it's slow. It's faster than anything else when going up a steep hill. that litttle panzer will outgrunt most anything. at speed, it is not as fast as the A3/GTI, it's just not geared that way, but it will do some serious part throttle grunt acceleration for lane changes and on ramps, and that's pretty sweet. I think with better tires (I freaking hate the Hankooks. I WILL be buying a take-off set of GTI rims and tires), and maybe a bigger rear bar, the car will be more competitive. You do have to work harder with the shifter to keep the car in the 2k-3k sweet spot of the tach, but it is a sweet spot.

      On the plus side, I AVERAGE 46 mpg. When I'm racing my wife up the big flat open part of 287, I can't overtake her, but I can keep up. That's the trade-off for the fuel economy. That, and I don't worry about my coil packs getting recalled on the TDI.



    27. 12-07-2009 06:35 PM #27
      Quote, originally posted by FractureCritical »
      That, and I don't worry about my coil packs getting recalled on the TDI.

      Yeah, just the Glowplugs...


    28. Member MellowDub's Avatar
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      12-20-2009 09:13 PM #28
      basically what u are saying is MPG vs speed, pick one and go with it, which ever one u choose will be awesome

    29. 02-19-2010 04:15 PM #29
      I'm excited to drive the GTI and TDI back to back. I have driven the TDI and was more than impressed with its speed and handling. Great car. I like that it costs less and drops the boy racer look which I find tiring, though a GTI in United Grey with Black Leather could tempt me.

      I'm 80% sold on the TDI. If the GTI is that much better I'll reconsider, but at that point I may end up with an A3 2.0T 6MT


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      02-19-2010 04:50 PM #30
      I got excited yesterday because while looking for parking at the Shedd aquarium, there were specially marked parking spots by the elevators for ultra low emissions and green cars. I go hmmm, the TDI got green car of the year last year, thats me! So think about that when your facing TDI or gas,

    31. 02-19-2010 05:52 PM #31
      Quote, originally posted by afrost »
      If fuel goes to $10 a gallon I will start riding my bicycle.

      it might be worth learning how to fly at that point


    32. Member sfpegasus's Avatar
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      02-19-2010 06:02 PM #32
      Quote, originally posted by ACD »
      I'm excited to drive the GTI and TDI back to back. I have driven the TDI and was more than impressed with its speed and handling. Great car. I like that it costs less and drops the boy racer look which I find tiring, though a GTI in United Grey with Black Leather could tempt me.

      I'm 80% sold on the TDI. If the GTI is that much better I'll reconsider, but at that point I may end up with an A3 2.0T 6MT

      Wait till you get into the mountains or steep hills like we have here. The TDI is like a mountain goat, always eager to pull the hills.

      2010 CW Golf TDI DSG 2DR - Euroswitch - LED tails, turns - Clear corners - GTI sideskirts - Audi stainless tips - Porto alloy spare - Plastic battery box - 9W7 Bluetooth
      2013 RS Golf 2.5 6AT 2DR - Bone stock

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      02-19-2010 06:06 PM #33
      I've thought about that quite a lot after having this GTi. Mostly because my wife really wanted a TDI wagon before she got the Passat Wagon.

      I commute 82 miles between 5-7 days a week on the interstate. On the highway I am getting 32-35 mpg and just under 28 mpg in town. Overall I'm averaging 31.8 mpg / tank and my car is tuned to stage 1 (APR ECU + carbonio intake), so the power is solid. The question becomes, is the benefit of gaining 5-10 mpg with a Golf TDI worth sacrificing the performance of a GTi (tuned or stock)? That's obviously a decision influenced by many personal, subjective factors and thus, there is no right or wrong answer. Not everyone wants or even cares about the performance stuff.

      For me it's just not worth the tradeoff considering the kind of performance I'm getting from the GTi both in terms of fuel efficiency and dynamic stuff in the twisties.

      Drive them both as much as possible and best of luck making your decision. They are both great cars with big practical and fun factors.


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      02-19-2010 06:30 PM #34
      As I understand it, the tax credit goes to whoever owns the car. If you buy it, you get the credit. If you lease it, the company or dealer that leases it to you gets the credit.

      If you prefer to lease, you might be able to use this fact as a bargaining chip to get the payment lower.


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      02-19-2010 06:32 PM #35
      Quote, originally posted by dmorrow »
      One question, why is the GTI DSG and Manual have so a big difference in fuel ratings on the EPA site? Seems like too much difference, DSG - 24/32 and manual 21/31 which equates to about $127 a year (still doesn't pay for the DSG but helps some). Have they not tested the most recent version of the manual GTI (TSFI instead of FSI)? The DSG Golf TDI has almost exactly the same mileage as the manual.

      I think it's because when they slow down in the manual they put it in neutral so the engine still burns enough fuel to keep the engine idling. The DSG just downshifts the entire time. If the car is in gear and your foot isn't on the gas the engine doesn't use any fuel to keep it going.


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