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    Thread: Project CAR (Coupe Air Ride) is under way!!!

    1. Banned WCHLVR's Avatar
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      12-13-2009 04:25 AM #71
      Quote, originally posted by T3Bunny »
      VERY informaive article!

      Fascinating and air suspension works the way I would like it to too! Lower=stiffer! Perfect.

      The only thing not answered by that is reliability concerns.

      And seems I should pursue using the tokico's if I go about this. They are adjustable on top too so even better. I honestly don't think I would be going low enough to make it matter that they are stock length. Anyways back on track.

      Looking forward to seeing more on this thread!

      Like everything else on your car, an air ride setup is only as reliable as the amount of maintenance you put into it.

      Fittings
      Hoses
      Wiring
      Pumps
      Relays
      Switches
      Gauges
      Valves
      Driers.... the list goes on and on. If one sets it up correctly. Keep everything nice and neat. And is willing to give it"the once over" very once and a while... it will be as reliable as the rest of your car.

      On a related note- The kit I am building is designed to work with coilovers. If you are wanting it to work with stock struts I am certain we can work something out.


    2. Banned WCHLVR's Avatar
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      12-18-2009 06:22 AM #72
      Update-

      Got back from my 'Jet guy with a stack of new goodies. Everything turned out awesome.

      Started some strut mockup... see how things fit.

      Busted out the drill press and countersunk the holes for the bag mount to use flat sockethead screws (gotta make every mm count)


      Had to countersink the bag a little so the screws would tighten down!

      Also using flat socket heads on the strut cap. These will be tack in place for easy mounting.

      Using standard socket head on the bottom. This work perfectly to lock the bag into the adjustment rings and keep it from spinning.


      Upper bag mount will have a pipe here (size to be just enough to clear everything)

      As you can see, if I run the numbers correctly, I should be able to calculate for strut bearing sag and close this gap up really tight and still have full function. (top plate is the lower mounting flange for the strut bearing cap.

      More to come! Next episode- Getting the Coupe back in the garage, mock this up and see where we're at!


    3. 12-18-2009 06:57 AM #73
      this is awesome!!!!

      dom


    4. Member MadTextureYo's Avatar
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      12-18-2009 07:58 AM #74
      Quote, originally posted by T3Bunny »
      VERY informaive article!

      Fascinating and air suspension works the way I would like it to too! Lower=stiffer! Perfect.

      The only thing not answered by that is reliability concerns.

      drove my mk1 on air for about 9 months with literally no issues, even throughout the winter. also daily'd my tdi on air for the last year or so with out any problems.


      this thread looks great, only concern i have is that the struts may still hold you up. i couldnt get the height i wanted up front on the aero over coils on my mk1 even with my 2 1/2 inch raised towers.

      i ended up having to get custom shortened struts from bagyard.

      im sure you will figure something out though.

      oh, and im jealous of your fabrication skills.


    5. Member wantacad's Avatar
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      12-18-2009 09:00 AM #75
      Quote, originally posted by T3Bunny »

      Fascinating and air suspension works the way I would like it to too! Lower=stiffer! Perfect.

      I'm curious as to how they came up with that.

      In my bagged chevy S10 I had it was the opposite effect. Less PSI (lower) = softer more bouncy the ride. More PSI (higher) firmer/stiff ride.

      Quote Originally Posted by WackyWabbitRacer View Post
      You're new here but don't be a DORK.....
      Cheers, WWR.
      Quote Originally Posted by rte7x9 View Post
      Don't swap if you can't weld or fabricate. It's not a trivial task just to bolt everything up. There's a lot of nut-scratching involved. Take your time and do it right.

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      12-18-2009 09:08 AM #76
      They used sleeve bags with weird shaped lower mounts and internals, which changed the internal volume to change the stiffness. It worked so well, the company went out of business!

      Most air suspension setups get softer as you go lower, the Praxis stuff was different - I'm not sure how it performed in the real world, perhaps the difference between actual and theoretical was the reason they didn't sell anything.

      Cool project, watching this thread for sure


    7. Member wantacad's Avatar
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      12-18-2009 09:13 AM #77
      Quote, originally posted by Afazz »
      They used sleeve bags with weird shaped lower mounts and internals, which changed the internal volume to change the stiffness. It worked so well, the company went out of business!

      Most air suspension setups get softer as you go lower, the Praxis stuff was different - I'm not sure how it performed in the real world, perhaps the difference between actual and theoretical was the reason they didn't sell anything.

      Cool project, watching this thread for sure

      gotcha...

      Quote Originally Posted by WackyWabbitRacer View Post
      You're new here but don't be a DORK.....
      Cheers, WWR.
      Quote Originally Posted by rte7x9 View Post
      Don't swap if you can't weld or fabricate. It's not a trivial task just to bolt everything up. There's a lot of nut-scratching involved. Take your time and do it right.

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      12-18-2009 04:35 PM #78
      you've probably figured it out already but you can get those bolts counter sunk flush.

      edit: well more flush. that pic was a first attempt that later i had 100% flush.


      Modified by Swoops at 1:36 PM 12-18-2009


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    9. Senior Member Muffler Bearing's Avatar
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      12-18-2009 06:16 PM #79
      lookin good terry
      A Rabbit is not to be wasted on the tentative or weak. Only the worthy are invited, and then only at your own risk. If you have even a modicum of hesitation, DO NOT buy one of these cars. Instead, leave it for a worthy soul who has already matriculated to the sublime ecstasy of what those in the know refer to as a "MK1"

    10. Banned WCHLVR's Avatar
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      12-19-2009 05:24 AM #80
      Quote, originally posted by MadTextureYo »
      ...this thread looks great, only concern i have is that the struts may still hold you up. i couldnt get the height i wanted up front on the aero over coils on my mk1 even with my 2 1/2 inch raised towers.

      i ended up having to get custom shortened struts from bagyard.

      im sure you will figure something out though.

      oh, and im jealous of your fabrication skills.

      My goal is to be able to compress the bag further than you were able to. You were only able to lay out the air spring on the sleeve inside... mine will be able to do this-

      That said, I will come right out and say this is going VERY CLOSE. I am hoping to set the car on blocks this weekend in a mock up and get a better idea!

      BTW- Thanks for the props. The Easter Bunny is certainly inspiration for this build.

      Quote, originally posted by Swoops »
      you've probably figured it out already but you can get those bolts counter sunk flush.

      edit: well more flush. that pic was a first attempt that later i had 100% flush.

      Yeah... I was just done for the day. I already "over drilled" bags. I just need to slap the plates back on the drill press! Great pic though!


    11. Member
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      12-19-2009 02:34 PM #81
      http://www.universalairsuspens...t.pdf

      Check out Figure 8. Be careful you'e not pinching the internal bag right where #92 and #86 are in the drawing.


    12. Banned WCHLVR's Avatar
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      12-19-2009 02:52 PM #82
      Quote, originally posted by Afazz »
      http://www.universalairsuspens...t.pdf

      Check out Figure 8. Be careful you'e not pinching the internal bag right where #92 and #86 are in the drawing.

      This is their OG strut bag design. The newer bags are nothing like this. Still a pinch factor but nothing to this degree.

      Good looking out though!!


    13. Member syracusegli's Avatar
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      12-19-2009 03:49 PM #83
      Quote Originally Posted by 2mAn View Post
      go crash into a hybrid
      For powder coating and fabrication ---> www.roguemetalworks.com
      IG- Roguemetal

    14. Banned WCHLVR's Avatar
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      12-22-2009 12:48 AM #84
      Had a little time today to finish countersinking the upper mounts. Its all I could get done... Did I mention I hate Xmas time?





      Check out these super shorty custom bolts!

      Enjoy!


    15. Member 16v_HOR's Avatar
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      12-22-2009 12:52 AM #85
      Looking good. Impatiently awaiting the finished product
      Quote Originally Posted by SGLoki View Post
      Mk1people > Mkrestofpeople.
      Quote Originally Posted by unleashedd View Post
      wow this has escalatored quickly. dude now has vr6 up front, w8 out back, he's crying metal tears, and people are demanding consumption of feces... i dont know whats real anymore!

    16. Member JLF's Avatar
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      12-22-2009 02:27 AM #86
      Quality is Job One!

      Well done Sir!


    17. Member dmitry88's Avatar
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      12-22-2009 11:03 AM #87

    18. Junior Member MK2NIS's Avatar
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      12-24-2009 01:06 AM #88
      I hope Santa likes Jettas!! maybe he will kick me down some flow for the rest of this project!

    19. Junior Member MK2NIS's Avatar
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      12-25-2009 08:41 PM #89
      BTW if anyone wants more info on the coupe.....or to see what it looked like stock


      Merry Xmas all.....cant wait to see what 2010 brings for the dub world! http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4548443


    20. Banned WCHLVR's Avatar
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      01-05-2010 05:06 AM #90
      update bump!

      Finally got some time to get the Jetta back in the shop to do a mock up with all the new pieces I picked up a few weeks ago.

      Got the car on blocks to get a better prospective of where we sit... and I have to say it is looking promising!

      Full weight of the car... compressed quite nicely. Everything is within millimeter's!



      Look at how high the ass looks now!

      All the plates look like they will work perfectly!

      So where does this leave the car in relation to the ground? Let me show you!

      The blocks are 7.75" tall-

      The car is-

      That'll work! Now I will loose a little bit up top when it is all said and done but I have a little trick in mind to minimize the damage.

      Enjoy!


    21. Member joezeeuw's Avatar
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      01-05-2010 08:56 AM #91
      I guess I'm not 100% clear on how this all will work. The bag won't be resting on the inside of the tower will it? Seems like you would need quite a bit of space in there to allow turning and changes in king pin angle as the bag will not always be square with the top of the tower. I'm looking forward to seeing how this all unfolds. Great work so far. The idea to have the strut body come up past the tower is brilliant!

    22. Member phill0046's Avatar
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      01-05-2010 09:01 AM #92
      Awesome

      Makes me want a mk1

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      01-05-2010 09:19 AM #93
      Quote, originally posted by joezeeuw »
      I guess I'm not 100% clear on how this all will work. The bag won't be resting on the inside of the tower will it? Seems like you would need quite a bit of space in there to allow turning and changes in king pin angle as the bag will not always be square with the top of the tower. I'm looking forward to seeing how this all unfolds. Great work so far. The idea to have the strut body come up past the tower is brilliant!

      I don't think he has built everything out yet.



    24. Banned WCHLVR's Avatar
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      01-05-2010 04:44 PM #94
      Joe, detvw is correct. There will be a gap at the top, I just haven't gotten to that point of the build. Always best to do as many mockups as you can... helps prevent doing things multiple times. The great part to my "trick" I mentioned is it will be adjustable so I can get every millimeter out of this setup.


      Modified by WCHLVR at 1:46 PM 1-5-2010

    25. Member mad caddy16v's Avatar
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      01-05-2010 05:14 PM #95
      Quote, originally posted by joezeeuw »
      I guess I'm not 100% clear on how this all will work. The bag won't be resting on the inside of the tower will it? Seems like you would need quite a bit of space in there to allow turning and changes in king pin angle as the bag will not always be square with the top of the tower. I'm looking forward to seeing how this all unfolds. Great work so far. The idea to have the strut body come up past the tower is brilliant!

      ..as usual, joe and i are on the same page ... as i mentioned earlier, i was concerned about over roll of the bags on deflate,if that inner sleeve is altered...you say the new versions of the the UA bags seem different?...cool

      and as joe said im also concerned about being able to turn on moderate to complete deflate,and its up and down movement, as even on my set up without the inner stop altered, i had to clearance the **** out of the tower on the inside where the pinch welds come together, or the bag would have pinched.

      just brain storming as usual, looks awesome, cant wait to see the finished product. ...and may need to get a set of those raised USB things for the next "project". keep it up dude

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    26. Banned WCHLVR's Avatar
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      01-05-2010 06:27 PM #96
      Quote, originally posted by mad caddy16v »

      ..as usual, joe and i are on the same page ... as i mentioned earlier, i was concerned about over roll of the bags on deflate,if that inner sleeve is altered...you say the new versions of the the UA bags seem different?...cool

      and as joe said im also concerned about being able to turn on moderate to complete deflate,and its up and down movement, as even on my set up without the inner stop altered, i had to clearance the **** out of the tower on the inside where the pinch welds come together, or the bag would have pinched.

      just brain storming as usual, looks awesome, cant wait to see the finished product. ...and may need to get a set of those raised USB things for the next "project". keep it up dude

      I appreciate everyone's input. Thanks! It keeps me on my toes and helps to insure I haven't left out something vital.

      The inner sleeve is completely intact/unaltered as sent by UA. Truth be told, this isn't that much different than setups that have already been built. As you can see, even under full body weight the inner sleeve doesn't protrude past the top of the bag. I have concluded that the reason it shows it "sticking out" in the other pics is because I didn't have my mounting plates in place (this helps take up space) and I was supporting almost the entire front of the car with jack under one wheel/tire. When the car is resting on all fours, this does not seem to be an issue.

      However, the big difference/change here is I am allowing for the top of the strut to pass through the plane of the top bag mount. This has not been done in the past and hence has limited the capable drop of the setup. Once the coilover is bottomed out on the strut bearing your done. Now I can push past that limitation and gain a little more drop.

      All that said, yes I have allowed for the inner sleeve to be able to extend past the top of the bag but looking at the construction of the bag and considering the weight of our cars (or lack there of in our case) I dont see this being much of an issue. No more than already exists.

      As an added related note- I recently come to understand that VA will rebuild your bags for around $50. Look at it this way, this is no worse than the fact that we need replace our strut bearings every year (or sooner) because they fail.


    27. Member Mk1Madness's Avatar
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      01-05-2010 07:27 PM #97
      This is taking way to long....

      Scuba If I got in a cab and Esher was driving, I'd get right out. Then I'd ponder how drunk I was that I entered the rear of a 2dr rabbit and thought it was a cab.

      2014 DCI VW TOYS FOR TOTS It's for the kids!

    28. Banned WCHLVR's Avatar
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      01-05-2010 07:35 PM #98
      Quote, originally posted by Mk1Madness »
      This is taking way to long....

      x2


    29. Senior Member Muffler Bearing's Avatar
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      01-05-2010 08:27 PM #99
      most of the pics are borked
      A Rabbit is not to be wasted on the tentative or weak. Only the worthy are invited, and then only at your own risk. If you have even a modicum of hesitation, DO NOT buy one of these cars. Instead, leave it for a worthy soul who has already matriculated to the sublime ecstasy of what those in the know refer to as a "MK1"

    30. Banned WCHLVR's Avatar
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      01-05-2010 08:30 PM #100
      Quote, originally posted by Muffler Bearing »
      most of the pics are borked

      I think your comp is borked. All working fine on this end. Try grabbing the URL and see if that works?


    31. Member watchxmexdie's Avatar
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      01-05-2010 08:31 PM #101
      maybe you should come to my place, and put air ride on my bunny, ill give you 20$ and two sets of vw steelies . i call this the best deal ever!
      donald + Mk1 Rabbit = happy

    32. Banned WCHLVR's Avatar
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      01-05-2010 08:35 PM #102
      Quote, originally posted by watchxmexdie »
      maybe you should come to my place, and put air ride on my bunny, ill give you 20$ and two sets of vw steelies . i call this the best deal ever!

      Outstanding offer


    33. Member watchxmexdie's Avatar
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      01-05-2010 08:38 PM #103
      yeah i tryed. but the car looks great slammed man. love it!
      donald + Mk1 Rabbit = happy

    34. Banned WCHLVR's Avatar
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      01-05-2010 08:40 PM #104
      Quote, originally posted by watchxmexdie »
      yeah i tryed. but the car looks great slammed man. love it!

      Thx... Cant wait to get the front done so we can get to the back... but that is the easy part!


    35. Member JLF's Avatar
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      01-06-2010 12:43 AM #105
      Im really liking how this is coming together Terry!

      The front looks so slammed and tucked!

      This thread is like the gift that keeps on giving!

      Keep up the great work!


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