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    Thread: The Thread Build (BuildUp:)

    1. Member macanic21's Avatar
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      11-19-2010 08:33 PM #101
      Good news! I got the timing belt installed and rolled the motor over with not problems and I seem to have compression. I got the thing timed dead on the first time without even having to jump a tooth anywhere. Now I gotta figure out the complicated mess of interwoven bracketry that bolts up to the motor.

      I have a new plan of attach with reguards to the AEG manifold. I'm thinking AEG lower and ABA upper with an ABA lower adapter plate !!! I'm trying to keep the stock TB and PVC configuration and it doesn't look like I can modify the AEG upper easily. I think I may be able to just about get away with porting out the ABA upper and lower adapter plate. It is going to be close on the outer 2 runners. I may have to have someone weld some extra material on there to match the ports.

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      11-19-2010 10:37 PM #102
      is the stock intake manifold going to limit the flow of such a modified head? I'd call upon scientific rabbit for a ported manifold. equal flow to all cylinders and i think its something in the neighborhood of 20% more flow? if you have spent the cash on to get an extremely high flowing (relatively speaking) 8v head, why skimp on the intake?

    3. 11-20-2010 07:16 AM #103
      Quote Originally Posted by macanic21 View Post

      I have a new plan of attach with regards to the AEG manifold. I'm thinking AEG lower and ABA upper with an ABA lower adapter plate !!! I'm trying to keep the stock TB and PVC configuration and it doesn't look like I can modify the AEG upper easily. I think I may be able to just about get away with porting out the ABA upper and lower adapter plate. It is going to be close on the outer 2 runners. I may have to have someone weld some extra material on there to match the ports.
      I think this is a stupid idea and you are just opening a can of worms here. Either run a full MKIV configuration, or just wait till you have the money for an SRI.

      As long as you have all the proper AEG components, you can use the MKIII throttlebody and STILL have the proper PCV setup.

      Here's an early pic of my MKIV swap. As you can see everything was hooked up and proper.



      Again, don;'t waste time and your money trying to make this work. At the end of the day, you still have a poor flowing intake manifold. At least with running a MKIV manifold, you get a bit more overall flow and a pretty engine cover to hide the ugliness that is the ABA.

    4. Member macanic21's Avatar
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      11-20-2010 12:33 PM #104
      Yeah I know Travis but I want to be different... Looking at the ABA upper and the AEG upper I think the AEG may actually have longer runners. This means that the power loss is not necessarily in the runner length as much as it is in the ridiculously smaller runner diameter of the ABA piece. I will have no problems getting the cross sectional area of the ABA upper up to par and big enough to flow what I need. The runners only neck down about an inch or 2 before the flange and are easily ported. I may actually totally remove the dividers between the runners to shorten the runner length. The only problem I may run into is creating a smooth transition on the outer walls of the outer 2 runners. The AEG setup is wider overall due to the bigger runners. This is where using the ABA lower flange as an adapter plate will help me. The runners are angled in towards each other which will help narrow the setup down to meet the ABA upper.

      Does anyone know what the actual diameter of say a USRT SRI tube is? I'm going to compare the AEG lower to my ports in the head and see where I stand. Remember, I didn't really hog out the upper part of the ports in the head too much. I basically made them the same from the intake flange the whole way down to the seats.

    5. 11-20-2010 03:02 PM #105
      Ever hear the phrase "You can put lipstick on a pig, but at the end of the day, its still a pig." ?

      You're not going to gain anything with this project. You're still utilizing the stock manifolds regardless....only you are trying to make something work that isnt going to gain you anything in the long run. Believe me on this....stock manifolds are not the way to make power. Just getting 5-6whp out of a MKIV manifold takes cutting up the plenum to get at the inside, rewelding it, and on top of that, flow benching it to equalize airflow through all four runners. There is no gain to be had with a MKIII upper.

      You're wasting your time bud, but do what you gotta do.
      Last edited by 911_fan; 11-20-2010 at 03:10 PM.

    6. 11-20-2010 05:33 PM #106
      I think this is what your looking for http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...-MKIII-vs-MKIV

      The ABA intake is interesting. We ported one - tested with substantial increase in flow but it wasn't worth much power. We replotted the dyno charts so its easier to read here. http://www.scientificrabbit.com/node/27

      I think the main issue with the ABA intake is the small diameter at the joint between upper and lower sections. The mk4 lower has much better taper and inside diameter for the sharp turn. I do think in the test pages we list the plenum volumes are different also. Most OEM plenums are to small anyway.
      Would be interesting to see a ABA upper mated to the MK4 lower, but they don;t align well/at all. Think I have a picture of them next to each other if you need it.

      Would be much easier to take a mk4 intake can cut the plenum and flip the TB to the side you want it on.

    7. Member macanic21's Avatar
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      11-21-2010 02:05 PM #107
      Yeah, I guess I should look into what it takes to get a AEG style valve cover on so it will clear the AEG upper. That was what I was planning originally. My point is that If you port out the 2" of runner at the flange of the ABA upper I think it would be able to flow as much as a ported AEG upper. The plenum area would also be much bigger. I know they don't line up well at all. The ABA lower flange adapter plate idea would help that.

      Well Travis I know you might be right. So, post up some dimensions of a SRI runner, and prove it! The differences between the AEG and ABA lowers are significant. I think the effects will be compounded with a ported big valve head.

      So clear something up for me ny. They are just porting the lower manifolds correct? Are the porting out the entire thing or just the lower portion of the lowers? Its kind of confusing the way they word it. Maybe that is by design...
      Last edited by macanic21; 11-21-2010 at 02:20 PM.

    8. 11-21-2010 02:51 PM #108
      What exactly do you want me to prove....my experience?

      FWIW, here is my blueprint dimensions for my dual-plenum SRI.


    9. 11-21-2010 02:58 PM #109
      I don't think its intentionally written to be confusing, but not much effort was taken to make it clear what work exactly was done. I think our focus was to outline the performance differences.

      I would say that 90% of the porting work is done in the lower sections of the mk3/mk4 intakes.

    10. Member macanic21's Avatar
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      11-21-2010 09:58 PM #110
      Ah, sweet! It's not that I don't think you know what your talking about Travis. I just wanted to see some #'s behind why you were saying what you were saying.

      So I see that for a AEG lower to be comparable in runner size I would have to expand it about 6mm. Thats quite a difference. I'll have to measure the ports in my head to see where I stand (haven't even really compared them to the AEG piece yet). There's no sense in going bigger on the mani than the head. Hopefully I won't be regretting not taking the head ports out more. Although i don't know that it would have gained me much. They are basically straight to the seats.

    11. Member dudeman08's Avatar
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      11-22-2010 09:18 PM #111
      Quote Originally Posted by macanic21 View Post
      Ah, OK. So you could have probably benefited from a little more timing. I just scanned my car and I had a Bank 1 rich p0172... What the heck do I do about that? I guess its time to replace that O2 sensor.
      i have the stage 2 PEM on my car and until i swapped my head and put my 276* cam in, i had this code. i was running a neuspeed 256* cam and had the code. your cam is too small and not letting enough air in to mix with the fuel. it probably suffers in the bottom end but picks up in the top like mine did. with the 276* cam in now, the only code i get is some stupid error from the chip, but its w/e. my car runs great now though. just gotta put my msd setup on it and try to get in contact with usrt on the long runner intake mani i order almost 2 months ago. still havnt gotten it yet.

    12. 11-22-2010 09:40 PM #112
      Quote Originally Posted by dudeman08 View Post
      i have the stage 2 PEM on my car and until i swapped my head and put my 276* cam in, i had this code. i was running a neuspeed 256* cam and had the code. your cam is too small and not letting enough air in to mix with the fuel.
      THats the dumbest thing I ever read. You realize thats why you have a MAF sensor...right? The cam duration has nothing to do with that code.

    13. Member dudeman08's Avatar
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      11-22-2010 09:54 PM #113
      Quote Originally Posted by tdogg74 View Post
      THats the dumbest thing I ever read. You realize thats why you have a MAF sensor...right? The cam duration has nothing to do with that code.
      lol. well, thats the only thing i could think of, and a few people suprisingly agreed with me, so i went with it. couldnt have been the dumbest thing you ever read. sounded good at the time. lol. you dont think very well when youre really tired after a long day at work and then school right after. i just have a funny issue where i have to let my car get to operating temp before i can drive it without any issues like bucking and hesitation and stalling. im not getting a code for rich, i wonder what it is. after its warmed up, its perfectly fine. runs like a raped date and spins wheels in second gear up to 45-50 mph.

    14. Member macanic21's Avatar
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      11-22-2010 11:00 PM #114
      The only thing I was thinking of Travis, was that maybe the air flow was below the range of the chip due to the stock parts and it the chip couldn't pull enough fuel.... Maybe these computers work differently, but with other fuel injection setups they have a range of adjustment and can't go out of that. If the air flow was below the minimum range programmed into the chip, it would have sent fuel to a minimum but it would have still been too much. IDK what the problem was but it happened after I only changed the chip. I hope it doesn't come back with this new motor.

    15. 11-23-2010 07:05 AM #115
      Nope. Cam duration has nothing to do with it, sorry. I ran 4 different cams with my PEM; Stock, 268/260, 276, and a 288. Never ONCE popped a code. Your MAF measures the load on the motor, reports that voltage to the ECU and then the ECU adjusts fuel trim with the aid of your O2 sensor. That's the MAF's job, to measure air density.

      That code is either a MAF issue (dirty or broken) or you got a vacuum leak. The chip takes everything out of the comfy stock "safe" zone and replaced the tables with an aggressive tune. If there are any issues with sensors, they will come out.

    16. Member dudeman08's Avatar
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      11-23-2010 12:46 PM #116
      gottcha. i know i have a small evap leak that im still trying to find, but i doubt thats the problem. maybe my maf is going bad, seeing as how its the original one. its weird though because it runs perfectly fine once its up to operating temp. the idle smooths out a little, even with the big arse cam, and quiets down a bit. ill have to get a vid for you to take a look at.

    17. 11-23-2010 01:18 PM #117
      Quote Originally Posted by dudeman08 View Post
      gottcha. i know i have a small evap leak that im still trying to find, but i doubt thats the problem. maybe my maf is going bad, seeing as how its the original one. its weird though because it runs perfectly fine once its up to operating temp. the idle smooths out a little, even with the big arse cam, and quiets down a bit. ill have to get a vid for you to take a look at.
      I had a 6 month old MAF when I put in the PEM for the first time. I kept on getting really weird closed-loop, super lean readings on my wideband. Thought the chip was messed up. Swapped to a different MAF, and it went away. Aggressive tunes bring out issues that you thought were non-existent with stock parts. Nature of the beast I guess.

    18. Member dudeman08's Avatar
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      11-23-2010 06:50 PM #118
      yeah, i guess you got a point. ive replaced all the typical sensors that go bad like the oil pressure sensors (high and low), both coolant sensors, and both o2 sensors. i guess maybe i should try a new maf? by having an aggressive tune, like you said, takes the computer out of its "safe" stock parameters and calls on a bigger demand from all the sensors for more engine output. so, im guessing so cant keep up with what the chip needs, untill my car is heated up.i guess id need a vagcom to see everything and how its working. ill have to check my bentley manual and test my maf too to check and see if thats an issue.

    19. Member macanic21's Avatar
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      12-03-2010 09:49 AM #119
      Got the lower intake on, and the injectors cleaned and reinstalled. I finally got bolts for the oil pan so I can get that on. I think I finally got everything painted that I need to. Now I have to begin installing accessories onto the block. Who knows when I will be able to work on it again. I'll be busy from now until Monday.... Oh, well.

    20. Member macanic21's Avatar
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      12-14-2010 11:56 AM #120
      Oil pan is on, rear main seal is on, accessory bracketry is on as much as is going on before I put the motor back in. I'm going to hang some wiring and sensors on the motor and get the trans put on yet before I clean the engine bay and slap her in!!!

      Got a sweet Christmas present last night! Craftsman 14 drawer bottom box with latching drawers! Its sweet

    21. 12-14-2010 12:18 PM #121
      Nice. Wife hit Sears on black Friday and got me a new tool set and some specialty tools (the one I lost in the fire) She saved an s-load of money buying the stuff that day!

    22. Member macanic21's Avatar
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      12-29-2010 09:34 PM #122
      Latest problem:

      I went to put the clutch together. I got the pressure plate bolted up fine but when I went to put on the Eurospec flywheel, I realized that it had 2 pins instead of 1 like my original. I did some comparing and found that 1 of the pins shared a common location with the stocker, and the stocker fit on the new pressure plate. So, I just cut off the extra pin off and put the thing together.

      Is this going to work?

    23. 12-30-2010 11:33 AM #123
      Yes.

      That pin is the difference from the older 020's and the newer 020 trans. No worries.

      You get the kit from ECS?

    24. Member macanic21's Avatar
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      12-30-2010 09:02 PM #124
      Alright, thanks. I knew there were differences in the old ones but I wasn't sure if they would interchange like that.

      No... Prolly shoulda told them what I wanted but at the time I wasn't sure and figured they would get me something good. Its a Spec SV282. Its a stage 2, the friction material pattern looks pretty good, its a sprung center.

    25. Member macanic21's Avatar
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      01-03-2011 10:07 AM #125
      http://www.lmperformance.com/spec.asp

      Here are the specs on the clutch I got. Its the stage 2, looks decent.

      I'm going to try to get an engine hoist tonight so I can get the trans put on. Once I get the engine bay cleaned I'll be ready to drop this thing in!

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