The Thread Build (BuildUp:)

[ny_fam]

I think this is what your looking for http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...-MKIII-vs-MKIV

The ABA intake is interesting. We ported one - tested with substantial increase in flow but it wasn't worth much power. We replotted the dyno charts so its easier to read here. http://www.scientificrabbit.com/node/27

I think the main issue with the ABA intake is the small diameter at the joint between upper and lower sections. The mk4 lower has much better taper and inside diameter for the sharp turn. I do think in the test pages we list the plenum volumes are different also. Most OEM plenums are to small anyway.
Would be interesting to see a ABA upper mated to the MK4 lower, but they don;t align well/at all. Think I have a picture of them next to each other if you need it.

Would be much easier to take a mk4 intake can cut the plenum and flip the TB to the side you want it on.

[macanic21]

Yeah, I guess I should look into what it takes to get a AEG style valve cover on so it will clear the AEG upper. That was what I was planning originally. My point is that If you port out the 2" of runner at the flange of the ABA upper I think it would be able to flow as much as a ported AEG upper. The plenum area would also be much bigger. I know they don't line up well at all. The ABA lower flange adapter plate idea would help that.

Well Travis I know you might be right. So, post up some dimensions of a SRI runner, and prove it! The differences between the AEG and ABA lowers are significant. I think the effects will be compounded with a ported big valve head.

So clear something up for me ny. They are just porting the lower manifolds correct? Are the porting out the entire thing or just the lower portion of the lowers? Its kind of confusing the way they word it. Maybe that is by design...

[911_fan]

What exactly do you want me to prove....my experience?

FWIW, here is my blueprint dimensions for my dual-plenum SRI.

[ny_fam]

I don't think its intentionally written to be confusing, but not much effort was taken to make it clear what work exactly was done. I think our focus was to outline the performance differences.

I would say that 90% of the porting work is done in the lower sections of the mk3/mk4 intakes.

[macanic21]

Ah, sweet! It's not that I don't think you know what your talking about Travis. I just wanted to see some #'s behind why you were saying what you were saying.

So I see that for a AEG lower to be comparable in runner size I would have to expand it about 6mm. Thats quite a difference. I'll have to measure the ports in my head to see where I stand (haven't even really compared them to the AEG piece yet). There's no sense in going bigger on the mani than the head. Hopefully I won't be regretting not taking the head ports out more. Although i don't know that it would have gained me much. They are basically straight to the seats.

[dudeman08]

Ah, OK. So you could have probably benefited from a little more timing. I just scanned my car and I had a Bank 1 rich p0172... What the heck do I do about that? I guess its time to replace that O2 sensor.

i have the stage 2 PEM on my car and until i swapped my head and put my 276* cam in, i had this code. i was running a neuspeed 256* cam and had the code. your cam is too small and not letting enough air in to mix with the fuel. it probably suffers in the bottom end but picks up in the top like mine did. with the 276* cam in now, the only code i get is some stupid error from the chip, but its w/e. my car runs great now though. just gotta put my msd setup on it and try to get in contact with usrt on the long runner intake mani i order almost 2 months ago. still havnt gotten it yet.

[911_fan]

i have the stage 2 PEM on my car and until i swapped my head and put my 276* cam in, i had this code. i was running a neuspeed 256* cam and had the code. your cam is too small and not letting enough air in to mix with the fuel.

THats the dumbest thing I ever read. You realize thats why you have a MAF sensor...right? The cam duration has nothing to do with that code.

[dudeman08]

THats the dumbest thing I ever read. You realize thats why you have a MAF sensor...right? The cam duration has nothing to do with that code.

lol. well, thats the only thing i could think of, and a few people suprisingly agreed with me, so i went with it. couldnt have been the dumbest thing you ever read. sounded good at the time. lol. you dont think very well when youre really tired after a long day at work and then school right after. i just have a funny issue where i have to let my car get to operating temp before i can drive it without any issues like bucking and hesitation and stalling. im not getting a code for rich, i wonder what it is. after its warmed up, its perfectly fine. runs like a raped date and spins wheels in second gear up to 45-50 mph.

[macanic21]

The only thing I was thinking of Travis, was that maybe the air flow was below the range of the chip due to the stock parts and it the chip couldn't pull enough fuel.... Maybe these computers work differently, but with other fuel injection setups they have a range of adjustment and can't go out of that. If the air flow was below the minimum range programmed into the chip, it would have sent fuel to a minimum but it would have still been too much. IDK what the problem was but it happened after I only changed the chip. I hope it doesn't come back with this new motor.

[911_fan]

Nope. Cam duration has nothing to do with it, sorry. I ran 4 different cams with my PEM; Stock, 268/260, 276, and a 288. Never ONCE popped a code. Your MAF measures the load on the motor, reports that voltage to the ECU and then the ECU adjusts fuel trim with the aid of your O2 sensor. That's the MAF's job, to measure air density.

That code is either a MAF issue (dirty or broken) or you got a vacuum leak. The chip takes everything out of the comfy stock "safe" zone and replaced the tables with an aggressive tune. If there are any issues with sensors, they will come out.

[dudeman08]

gottcha. i know i have a small evap leak that im still trying to find, but i doubt thats the problem. maybe my maf is going bad, seeing as how its the original one. its weird though because it runs perfectly fine once its up to operating temp. the idle smooths out a little, even with the big arse cam, and quiets down a bit. ill have to get a vid for you to take a look at.

[911_fan]

gottcha. i know i have a small evap leak that im still trying to find, but i doubt thats the problem. maybe my maf is going bad, seeing as how its the original one. its weird though because it runs perfectly fine once its up to operating temp. the idle smooths out a little, even with the big arse cam, and quiets down a bit. ill have to get a vid for you to take a look at.

I had a 6 month old MAF when I put in the PEM for the first time. I kept on getting really weird closed-loop, super lean readings on my wideband. Thought the chip was messed up. Swapped to a different MAF, and it went away. Aggressive tunes bring out issues that you thought were non-existent with stock parts. Nature of the beast I guess.

[dudeman08]

yeah, i guess you got a point. ive replaced all the typical sensors that go bad like the oil pressure sensors (high and low), both coolant sensors, and both o2 sensors. i guess maybe i should try a new maf? by having an aggressive tune, like you said, takes the computer out of its "safe" stock parameters and calls on a bigger demand from all the sensors for more engine output. so, im guessing so cant keep up with what the chip needs, untill my car is heated up.i guess id need a vagcom to see everything and how its working. ill have to check my bentley manual and test my maf too to check and see if thats an issue.

[macanic21]

Got the lower intake on, and the injectors cleaned and reinstalled. I finally got bolts for the oil pan so I can get that on. I think I finally got everything painted that I need to. Now I have to begin installing accessories onto the block. Who knows when I will be able to work on it again. I'll be busy from now until Monday.... Oh, well.

[macanic21]

Oil pan is on, rear main seal is on, accessory bracketry is on as much as is going on before I put the motor back in. I'm going to hang some wiring and sensors on the motor and get the trans put on yet before I clean the engine bay and slap her in!!!

Got a sweet Christmas present last night! Craftsman 14 drawer bottom box with latching drawers! Its sweet

[911_fan]

Nice. Wife hit Sears on black Friday and got me a new tool set and some specialty tools (the one I lost in the fire) She saved an s-load of money buying the stuff that day!

[macanic21]

Latest problem:

I went to put the clutch together. I got the pressure plate bolted up fine but when I went to put on the Eurospec flywheel, I realized that it had 2 pins instead of 1 like my original. I did some comparing and found that 1 of the pins shared a common location with the stocker, and the stocker fit on the new pressure plate. So, I just cut off the extra pin off and put the thing together.

Is this going to work?

[911_fan]

Yes.

That pin is the difference from the older 020's and the newer 020 trans. No worries.

You get the kit from ECS?

[macanic21]

Alright, thanks. I knew there were differences in the old ones but I wasn't sure if they would interchange like that.

No... Prolly shoulda told them what I wanted but at the time I wasn't sure and figured they would get me something good. Its a Spec SV282. Its a stage 2, the friction material pattern looks pretty good, its a sprung center.

[macanic21]

http://www.lmperformance.com/spec.asp

Here are the specs on the clutch I got. Its the stage 2, looks decent.

I'm going to try to get an engine hoist tonight so I can get the trans put on. Once I get the engine bay cleaned I'll be ready to drop this thing in!

[macanic21]

STUPID OBX!!! Remember when I was complaining about that header and how terrible it fit? Then people said that it wasn't so bad, and I said well maybe they are right. Well they weren't! I got the engine in and tried to put the header on. I hits the firewall and the O2 sensor is clocked wrong and hits the cross member. Now i have to completely unwrap my nice fiberglass wrap and cut apart my brand new header!!! Stupid crap, what is so hard about making some tubing with the right bends, its not like this is even a tight engine compartment....

The good news is that the engine is in, my clutch works and now all I have to do is put all the accessories back on, connect the wiring and put the radiator and bumper back on!

[911_fan]

Dude, you must have gotten the runt of the litter...I didnt have any contact issues with either of mine. Weird.

What position and location did you weld your O2 bung? It should be as high as possible (without making contact) to keep and condensation from ruining the sensor tip. (Im sure you already know that). I had my bung installed adjacent to the one that was already there on the collector.

[macanic21]

I was talking about the bung that came already welded in the header. They welded it to far towards the bottom of the collector and the end of the O2 sensor hits the cross member that holds the rack. The secondary bung that I have after my "cat" is in the factory location and is fine. I'm glad I bought that stainless welding wire.

[macanic21]

I think I came up with a solution to my header problem. I tried bending and that didn't work. Now that I think about it I think Stainless is one of the harder metals to bend. I'm going to cut about 1/2" out of the primaries right at the flanges. That will bring it off the firewall. Hopefully even with the stupid way they bent it, it wont hit anything when the motor moves. They bent this thing in almost the worst possible way. There is a huge hole there they had to shoot at and they couldn't have missed worse....

[macanic21]

Didn't spend too much time making it look pretty since I was going to wrap it. My warp job looks terrible. Last time I spent 2 days on it, this time I spent 1 hour... Lets just say I wanted to get the stupid thing done. Just have to hose clamp the wrap and weld in the flex couplers and the exhaust is ready.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/20668938@N05/5384719737/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/20668938@N05/5385319770/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/20668938@N05/5385319186/

[macanic21]

Well I thought it was going to be simple, wrong again.

I welded the flex couplers onto the cat, looked through it and saw that the pipe I had driven through the cat was badly warped and cracked almost in half. I cut the flex couplers back off and now i have to cut the cat off of my parts car and gut that. I guess the pipe just got too hot inside the cat shell. Oh well.

I also have to order more pipe and eliminate my glass pack because it won't fit with the flex couplers.

[macanic21]

HA! my post number was 454! thats a good engine

Fired the motor up tonight! Tried it a few times and got a cough and backfire. "man that really sounds like its 180* out. "Ugh, you idiot #1 is at the FRONT of the engine!"

Once I fixed the timing it fired but is down 1 or 2 cylinders. I exhaust pipe was cold but I think I may have 1 cylinder firing on the intake and one on exhaust, not really sure what the problem is. I haven't looked into it yet. #2 exhaust was cold. I tested the injectors before I put them back in. Could be ignition or fuel i guess. Don't think it would be compression. Anyone have any ideas?

Wish me luck.

[macanic21]

Got the #2 problem worked out: loose injector connector.

The NEW radiator leaks a littlebut I rolled the dice and took it our for its first spin tonight! And, it made it through the break in pretty well. My only complaint so far is that it is not very snappy or responsive to quick throttle inputs. I'm not sure if the cam timing is off a tooth. It does seem pretty decent up top. I'm gonna start playing with the cam timing to try to improve it.

Is this a common thing with cammed and ported 2.0's? I'll take a video sometime to give you an idea of how it reacts. Even at 3k, if i blip it to the floor it will barely increase RPM. I had hopped for a snappier engine.

The mid range and top end seems pretty strong. Obviously it started to die past stock red line due to the ABA manifold. It feels like it could chirp 2nd but the clutch is still pretty soft. Hopefully it'l get sticky once its broken in.

It doesn't really lope that much either, kinda rough and a little cranky down, which I like!

[PBWB]

With a ported head you'll have to advance (correct me if I'm wrong) the cam timing a certain amount to achieve a truely timed engine (how much depends on how much you shaved--Travis will know how much). You have an adj. gear.....play around with it a bit until you put the powerband where you want it. For your test drives I'd recommend starting at around 1500rpms in 3rd gear. It will make it easier to tell when the power is coming on and when it falls off.

[911_fan]

porting has nothing to do with timing...that decking the head.

And when you DO port the head, and run a larger cam (276*?) you do lose that snappy super-low end. All that torque has moved up the power band. But I am curious to see if you arent retarded one tooth. That would certainly make the bottom end feel flat until about 3500-4000.

[macanic21]

Yeah, Im wandering if I'm a tooth off as well. I'll play with the cam timing a little.

Is there a good way to verify the ignition timing on these things or should I just plug in with VAG-COM cuz that will be 100% accurate? I do have a light I that has an advance knob on (need that for tuning real engines ).

Thanks guys! This is going to be fun to tune.

[PBWB]

porting has nothing to do with timing...that decking the head.

Sh*t....hahaha That's what I meant. I'm thinking about too many things behind this damn screen.

[macanic21]

Played with the cam timing tonight.

I don't think its off a tooth. When I advance it all the way I get a pretty good bottom end with noticeable sacrifice on top. When I retard it all the way I get a big hit up top but it almost doesn't want to accelerate down low. (do I have the advance/retard direction right?) Straight up is the best of both worlds and it has a pretty smooth power delivery.

I'm wandering if my 2K RPM dead spot is still there lurking. I think I'm going to try to get another TB. Wheres the best place to get a new one?

The trans is loosening up nicely. Reverse still crunches sometimes though...

[911_fan]

I have a good used TB for sale that came off my old motor.

And if your ignition timing was off, you would have a P0341 CEL.

[jsneed]

When it comes to adjusting cam timing, it's best to do it a degree or two at a time, not just 0 to +8 or +8 to -8. There is going to be a little comprimise in the middle. The front side of the timing belt gets shorter when you deck a head, so in order to be exactly where you need to be, make sure the tension is right to start with, set the crank to TDC, then check the cam, you will likely have to adjust it forward (advanced) a degree or two. If you want more down low, with a deramped TB and ported head, you'll want to be somewhere in the 3-4 degree range. Try it there.