Switching to Bike Carbs. Heres a write up!

[forestgreenjett]

what distributor are you using? do you have a picture?

I'm running a vaccum advanced distributor off a mk1 rabbit off a 1.8

Sorry about the size couldn't figur out how to shrink it down

[rysskii3]

The distributor is turned counter clockwise to the point that the hall sensor is resting against the motor is this wronge ?

Get a timing gun and check your timing.

[bmwquick]

Staccccks
And yes they do clear the hood. I'm going to get some screen filters for them also. He said he can make filters to go directly on the carbs.

Pjmotorsports.com awesome customer service. Ordered last Friday they were at my door yesterday.

Whoa. Which kit is that??

[oldschool eighty8]

Pjm 45kit
I spoke with them about also making filters to fit directly on the carbs and they can do it. You just need to call and tell them exactly what you need.

[bmwquick]

Pjm 45kit
I spoke with them about also making filters to fit directly on the carbs and they can do it. You just need to call and tell them exactly what you need.

Not bad for $79.99. How are they held on??

I'd buy a set but then I'd also have to buy the filters at $30 a pop. Which is reasonable, but too much for me.

[oldschool eighty8]

They are held on with clamps. Your going to spend close to that for any filter kit you buy.



Edit: anyone with r1 carbs played with the needle heights to get a little more fuel? It's so close that I think drilling the jets would be too much

[keeton]

Question: Can anyone with a 16v in a Mk1 give me the approximate angle of the engine (maybe angle of the top of the valve cover) sitting in the car and the angle of the carbs mounted up to the engine? I need to build my manifold, but sitting the 16v in to take measurements isn't an option as I have to drive the car every day.

Any help would be appreciated.

[86Franklin]

top of the valve cover should be level to the ground

[bmwquick]

They are held on with clamps. Your going to spend close to that for any filter kit you buy.



Edit: anyone with r1 carbs played with the needle heights to get a little more fuel? It's so close that I think drilling the jets would be too much

Please post pics with filters when you get them!

[bmwquick]

Idle and WOT switches. Can someone please tell me how they affect ignition timing on the CIS-e knockbox setup?

I've read the idle switch may be used to hold ignition timing steady so the idle doesn't hunt. Makes sense but what about the WOT switch?? Does it affect ignition timing at all?? I'd guess its for fuel enrichment but I'm only worried about timing.

I fired up the car with with the knockbox setup but I dont have cooling hooked up yet so I couldn't test anything.

[yeayeayea]

i dont have either of the throttle switches hooked up. My car drives fine

[bmwquick]

After thinking about it more I would say the WOT switch most likely doesn't affect ignition. Think idle switch could though. Yeyyeayea how's you idle?? Steady?

I really want to hook them up so I can take full advantage of the knockbox setup but there's no reason if they wont affect ignition timing. Anyone have any input??

[yeayeayea]

Mine idles fine I suppose. It may help when you shift into neutral coming to a stop, im not sure. I have never tried the idle switch.

[YJSAABMAN]

Idle and WOT switches. Can someone please tell me how they affect ignition timing on the CIS-e knockbox setup?

I've read the idle switch may be used to hold ignition timing steady so the idle doesn't hunt. Makes sense but what about the WOT switch?? Does it affect ignition timing at all?? I'd guess its for fuel enrichment but I'm only worried about timing.

I fired up the car with with the knockbox setup but I dont have cooling hooked up yet so I couldn't test anything.

From all of my digging they both have a purpose. Granted, mine still isn't running, yet, but that's because I want it all right!

The idle switch puts the ICM/knockbox into a default timing curve to help keep the idle smooth.

Now for the full throttle switch, I've heard it does have an effect on the ignition system, not just fuel enrichment. OTH, what I've heard it does doesn't make much sense to me. I've heard the full throttle switch cuts out the knock sensor to keep it from pulling timing from valvetrain noise. This seems to me to counter the purpose of the knock sensor, so I may still opt out of the full throttle switch. I still have to think that with hydraulic cam followers there should be much less "extra" valvetrain noise then in the early solid follower engines.

I've already picked up a NOS micro switch for my idle switch and have started the template for my bracket. I plan to include a bit of a adjustment to fine tune it's switching point.

[rysskii3]

From all of my digging they both have a purpose. Granted, mine still isn't running, yet, but that's because I want it all right!

The idle switch puts the ICM/knockbox into a default timing curve to help keep the idle smooth.

Now for the full throttle switch, I've heard it does have an effect on the ignition system, not just fuel enrichment. OTH, what I've heard it does doesn't make much sense to me. I've heard the full throttle switch cuts out the knock sensor to keep it from pulling timing from valvetrain noise. This seems to me to counter the purpose of the knock sensor, so I may still opt out of the full throttle switch. I still have to think that with hydraulic cam followers there should be much less "extra" valvetrain noise then in the early solid follower engines.

I've already picked up a NOS micro switch for my idle switch and have started the template for my bracket. I plan to include a bit of a adjustment to fine tune it's switching point.

are you guys trying to run the carbs with stock ignition?
i run MSD setup (coil, start/retard, tach adapter, spark box 6a, oem ICM). i dont use any of the switched and my car idles perfectly while its still untuned.

[oldschool eighty8]

are you guys trying to run the carbs with stock ignition?
i run MSD setup (coil, start/retard, tach adapter, spark box 6a, oem ICM). i dont use any of the switched and my car idles perfectly while its still untuned.

Same here, I have no switches. Running a ms1 board to control the coil. Idle is steady and right at 1k once it's up to temp.

[bmwquick]

are you guys trying to run the carbs with stock ignition?
i run MSD setup (coil, start/retard, tach adapter, spark box 6a, oem ICM). i dont use any of the switched and my car idles perfectly while its still untuned.

Same here, I have no switches. Running a ms1 board to control the coil. Idle is steady and right at 1k once it's up to temp.

Well you guys are only running the ICM without the knockbox. Deleting the knockbox automatically deletes the idle/wot switches since they're wired to the knockbox. Thats probably the best way to go but MSD costs money compared to the 100% OEM knockbox setup I ripped out of picknpull for $30.

From all of my digging they both have a purpose. Granted, mine still isn't running, yet, but that's because I want it all right!

The idle switch puts the ICM/knockbox into a default timing curve to help keep the idle smooth.

Now for the full throttle switch, I've heard it does have an effect on the ignition system, not just fuel enrichment. OTH, what I've heard it does doesn't make much sense to me. I've heard the full throttle switch cuts out the knock sensor to keep it from pulling timing from valvetrain noise. This seems to me to counter the purpose of the knock sensor, so I may still opt out of the full throttle switch. I still have to think that with hydraulic cam followers there should be much less "extra" valvetrain noise then in the early solid follower engines.

I've already picked up a NOS micro switch for my idle switch and have started the template for my bracket. I plan to include a bit of a adjustment to fine tune it's switching point.

Well I pm'ed B4S here who's run the setup before and he said pretty much exactly that.

"Yep, the idle switch locks the timing at idle. The WOT switch may be for fueling, but I have no idea. I'm fairly certain that it also disables the knock sensor above a certain RPM, to account for valvetrain noise. You can run without the WOT switch with no ill effects, and even the idle switch if you have a mild cam. A lumpy cam might idle better with the switch, IMO. I ran with them both and without them both and noticed barely any difference in the car when carbed ."

If you get a custom cut bracket for your switches I'll gladly pay for an extra!

[YJSAABMAN]

Well you guys are only running the ICM without the knockbox. Deleting the knockbox automatically deletes the idle/wot switches since they're wired to the knockbox. Thats probably the best way to go but MSD costs money compared to the 100% OEM knockbox setup I ripped out of picknpull for $30.



Well I pm'ed B4S here who's run the setup before and he said pretty much exactly that.

"Yep, the idle switch locks the timing at idle. The WOT switch may be for fueling, but I have no idea. I'm fairly certain that it also disables the knock sensor above a certain RPM, to account for valvetrain noise. You can run without the WOT switch with no ill effects, and even the idle switch if you have a mild cam. A lumpy cam might idle better with the switch, IMO. I ran with them both and without them both and noticed barely any difference in the car when carbed ."

If you get a custom cut bracket for your switches I'll gladly pay for an extra!

Yup, that's who I heard it from, too. And with the compression ratio of an ABA and screwing around with timing and fuel in this manner I definitely want that knock sensor!

[20v_boost]

I'm running a vaccum advanced distributor off a mk1 rabbit off a 1.8

Sorry about the size couldn't figur out how to shrink it down

Am I seeing this right? You've got a vacuum line coming off of cylinder #4, then the check valve, then your vacuum line to the distributor? With this setup the distributor will always see high vacuum, even when you are at WOT! Does this work for you?

-Alex

[keeton]

Am I seeing this right? You've got a vacuum line coming off of cylinder #4, then the check valve, then your vacuum line to the distributor? With this setup the distributor will always see high vacuum, even when you are at WOT! Does this work for you?

-Alex

Same here. Confuzzled.

[aldin270]

I've been looking over this thread for a few hours now and I haven't completely gone through it, but I'm interested in knowing do any of you guys daily drive these cars? How reliable have they been so far? Has the fuel consumption improved or gotten worse? I'm debating doing as similar set up on one of my 16v engines I have laying around, I plan on DD the car.

Thanks.

[86Franklin]

I daily my rabbit during the summer. Once the temps in the morning get around freezing it takes a little bit to start but it does. Also with my carbs facing the front of the car, when I rains hard or I'm in heavy traffic it likes sucking in water and stalling. I want to make a plenum for it someday. Other than that it runs wonderfully and is fun.

[ncbrock]

I daily'd mine for a month (webers) if I would have left it alone and stopped tinkering on it it would have been fine for a while. I got mine to start within 5 seconds even in the morning, every time. Fuel consumption sucked probably ~10mpg around town, but it sounded good

[oldschool eighty8]

I daily'd mine for a month (webers) if I would have left it alone and stopped tinkering on it it would have been fine for a while. I got mine to start within 5 seconds even in the morning, every time. Fuel consumption sucked probably ~10mpg around town, but it sounded good

Running Msd I take it? Sound is all that matters anyway

[86Franklin]

I daily'd mine for a month (webers) if I would have left it alone and stopped tinkering on it it would have been fine for a while. I got mine to start within 5 seconds even in the morning, every time. Fuel consumption sucked probably ~10mpg around town, but it sounded good

Wow 10 mpg? I at least get mid to upper teens depending on how I drive. a big 5th on the highway gives me low to mid twenties.

[ncbrock]

Running Msd I take it? Sound is all that matters anyway

yeah msd programmable, made starting a breeze. Never happened to take it on the highway, but my route to school everyday was stop sign to stop sign so it was constant stop and go. So 10mpg isnt unrealistic.

[vswords32]

has anyone ever dynojetted their carbs?
ive heard of lads drilling out their jets etc...but surely the needle will have to be compsenated for this?
the reason im asking is because i also ride a zx6r,which was always going a bit rough on idle and cutting out every now and again on tick over,but on wide open throttle it seemed fine,so i got them chemically cleaned up and balanced correctly and the difference was night and day.
the lad that did the job said they were badly gunked up and the floats were way off cusing it to run on 3 cylinders also causing it to run rich on idle and up to about 3-5k rpm.
while i was chatting to him i asked him bout my r1's and he basically said not to drill out the jets as it will cause running issues,and be missmatched with the the needles etc.
any ideas?
sort of has me thinking bout getting a dynojet kit?

[oldschool eighty8]

From what ive seen and herd those kits don't have big enough jets for a car motor.

[aldin270]

so in other words, poor fuel economy? Has everyone had the same fuel economy? or is it just once case. I want to DD my car and i need somewhat decent fuel economy, and that will depend on if i want to do this set up or not.

[yeayeayea]

I dont remember what mine gets, I will check it out and report back

Last night


1/8th mile into last night serpentine belt.

[86Franklin]

What do you consider poor fuel economy. The four carbs should instantly be a flag for, this will probably be worse on gas than F.I. like I said for me, mid twenties on highway depending on speed. Mid to upper teens around town if I drive it normal. Has better mpg in the city than my a6.

[rysskii3]

What do you consider poor fuel economy. The four carbs should instantly be a flag for, this will probably be worse on gas than F.I. like I said for me, mid twenties on highway depending on speed. Mid to upper teens around town if I drive it normal. Has better mpg in the city than my a6.

i go through 1/4 of gas in less than an hour of city driving

[oldschool eighty8]

Any of you guys tried shimming the stock r1 needles? I have what I think is a transitional lean going on at part throttle.

[86Franklin]

i go through 1/4 of gas in less than an hour of city driving

Ive gone through 1/2 a tank this week driving around 20 miles a day. Both city and highway combined.

Edit to oldschool: I've changed the height of my needles ones and it didn't run very well. It was very boogy.

[vrally]

If memory serves me well enough, it is essentaily the same as alling about 8-10k oms resistance to the coolant sensor which advances the timing and increased differential fuel pressure in the cis-e system. So yes, finding a way to keep that WOT sensor functional on a carb setup with CIS-E knock box would be benifical. Let me know how you manage to set it up if you do. I haven't got that far yet.
It is just a switch though, you could use any switch to activate a coolant sensor resistor to the same effect and pick your level of resistance hence the level of timing advance.
I do wonder though if there are any electronics geeks out there who could intergrate this concept into the throttle position sensor that came standard on the r1 carb set up., to generate a resistance value that equates into a desireable range of timing advance through the coolant sensor directly..
I wonder???