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    Thread: Increasing my rocker ratio

    1. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      02-04-2010 11:16 PM #26
      Did some more playing around.
      New drawing of stock with some actual numbers. Started with 11mm peak lift from the Schricks and worked from there..

      New 2.3:1 rocker

      Two things - the ratio of the old vs new lift doesn't rise as fast as the change in rocker ratio. For this configuration max lift goes from 11mm to 11.65mm.
      The cam timing error of 2deg with the rocker change seems reasonable.
      One thing I didn't get right is the dia of the rocker rollers which does influence how much the lifter needs to move when the pivot is moved. Once I find my spare rockers or someone else measures one for me this is about as much as I can do.
      Even if I'm off on the low side .65mm extra lift and small cam timing error doesn't sound bad as long as it's not crazy money.
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning
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    2. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      02-05-2010 01:40 AM #27
      Quote, originally posted by need_a_VR6 »
      You'd probably only need to upgrade the springs if you use larger cams. It might be an inexpensive way to more lift/duration with stockers.

      Correct. I'm not sure what the stock cams lift is off the top of my head, but Willy said the stock springs bind around 12mm in an email today.
      -Josh
      Current VAG collection- 08 TT coupe 3.2 MT | 06 Phaeton 4-seater 6.0 W12 | 04 VW R32 | 03 GTI VR6 - all of them 24v VR6 based.
      Current other- 00 M Roadster | 12 Kia Soul 1.6 stick |01 ZRX1200R | 03 KLX400R | 00 XR200R

    3. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      02-05-2010 01:51 AM #28
      Quote, originally posted by need_a_VR6 »
      For this configuration max lift goes from 11mm to 11.65mm.

      Boo.. not enough! I was happy with the 12.5 figure off the top of my head.. even if it meant new springs + retainers the flow increase made the hardware changes worth it. Of course if the true lift really is only 11.65 then the stock springs will still work.
      I'm going to send those drawings..(and maybe a link to this thread) to the INA engineer. Maybe it will catch his interest enough he can help us with some further input. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      -Josh
      Current VAG collection- 08 TT coupe 3.2 MT | 06 Phaeton 4-seater 6.0 W12 | 04 VW R32 | 03 GTI VR6 - all of them 24v VR6 based.
      Current other- 00 M Roadster | 12 Kia Soul 1.6 stick |01 ZRX1200R | 03 KLX400R | 00 XR200R

    4. 02-05-2010 03:55 AM #29
      std AXW head tested on Superflow 1020 (bore 84 mm ) @10`` H2O
      inlet
      2 mm 36.0 cfm
      3 mm 54.1
      4 mm 71.1
      5 mm 86.0
      6mm 100.2
      7mm 113.3
      8 mm 125.2
      9mm 134.1
      10mm 138.4
      11mm 140.7
      12mm 143.3
      13mm 144.7
      14 mm 145.6
      15 mm 146.5
      no valve 143.6
      exhaust
      2mm 33.6 cfm
      3mm 51.3
      4mm 66.7
      5mm 78.2
      6mm 85.5
      7mm 89.6
      8mm 91.9
      9mm 93.5
      10mm 94.7
      11mm 95.6
      12mm 96.5
      13mm 97.2
      14mm 97.6
      15mm 98.1
      no valve 104.2
      after porting flow will be close to 150 cfm @ 11 mmm on inlet with std valves and exhaust about 115 to 120 cfm @ 11 mm
      ( numbers @10``multiplied x 1.67 )
      flow @ 28``H20 should be:
      inlet /exhaust
      2mm 60.12 / 56.11
      3mm 90.34 / 85.67
      4mm 118.73 /111.39
      5mm 143.62 / 130.59
      6mm 167.33 / 142.78
      7mm 189.21 / 149.63
      8mm 209.08 / 153.47
      9mm 223.94 / 156.14
      10mm 231.13 / 158.15
      11mm 234.97 / 159.65
      12mm 239.31 / 161.15
      13mm 241.65 / 162.32
      no valve 239.8 / 174.0

      On Catcams Full race profiles ( no pump lobe) who are used now by some engine builders
      Up to 13.10mm valve lift / 7.80 Cam lift / 314 degr@0.1mm/266degr @1mm /105degr
      Rocker ratio is 1.68 / 1.69 std rocker ( axw- axx - bhz ) source: Catcams
      The TFSI cams ( with pump lobe) are ready , but not tested in a car so far
      All cams are mechanical lifter /non hydro



      Modified by HPR at 12:57 AM 2-5-2010

    5. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      02-05-2010 08:02 AM #30
      Info on the parts for the solid conversion!
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning
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    6. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      02-05-2010 08:29 AM #31
      Way to take the thread totally off topic guys
      -Josh
      Current VAG collection- 08 TT coupe 3.2 MT | 06 Phaeton 4-seater 6.0 W12 | 04 VW R32 | 03 GTI VR6 - all of them 24v VR6 based.
      Current other- 00 M Roadster | 12 Kia Soul 1.6 stick |01 ZRX1200R | 03 KLX400R | 00 XR200R

    7. Member lil_kano's Avatar
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      02-05-2010 10:03 PM #32
      in for info.
      I drive a Chewbaka noise maker. What 'bout you??

      WiTW'15
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    8. Senior Member TBT-Syncro's Avatar
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      02-06-2010 12:16 AM #33
      awesome. its always great to seeing someone trying something new. It seems like too many users dont look to other motors and brands to see how they're able to make power, or improve on power.
      props.

    9. Member Ld7w_VR's Avatar
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      02-06-2010 12:21 PM #34
      Subscribed. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      Question for you guys. I know the 2.8 24v and 3.2 24v have many differences and some similarities in the head. Are the rockers different in the two engines?


      Modified by VR6VDub172 at 9:48 AM 2-6-2010
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    10. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      02-06-2010 01:47 PM #35
      Good question.
      I had a reman 2.8L 24v BDF head that used cast aluminum rockers. The other BDF head and BJS heads I had at the time both uses a stamped steel rocker. I'll try and take pics of the 'reman' ones as they seem to not be the norm. Dimensions between both sets seemed similar enough that I didn't measure anything.
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning
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    11. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      02-06-2010 03:46 PM #36
      I'd like to see that..aluminum seems awfully soft for that application.
      -Josh
      Current VAG collection- 08 TT coupe 3.2 MT | 06 Phaeton 4-seater 6.0 W12 | 04 VW R32 | 03 GTI VR6 - all of them 24v VR6 based.
      Current other- 00 M Roadster | 12 Kia Soul 1.6 stick |01 ZRX1200R | 03 KLX400R | 00 XR200R

    12. Member newcreation's Avatar
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      02-06-2010 04:08 PM #37
      I wouldn't think they would be aluminum either but a casted part that can have the look of aluminum
      -JAMES-
      DRIVEN/Built /UM Turbo R - VR NATION

    13. Member robocopywriter's Avatar
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      02-06-2010 06:42 PM #38
      Late coming to this cause I haven't been round in a while. Used to use cast aluminum high-lift rockers in the old days on "A" series mini engines. Besides more lift, they were quieter and lighter.
      Damn! When its all over these NA 24v 3.2 engines are going to be pretty impressive. Always knew I would prefer this route to turbo. Too bad I'm now too broke to play
      Rent my house in Greece.

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    14. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      02-06-2010 06:49 PM #39
      Yea, I've seen aftermarket made from aluminum before..I guess I am just surprised to hear of VW doing it from the factory.
      -Josh
      Current VAG collection- 08 TT coupe 3.2 MT | 06 Phaeton 4-seater 6.0 W12 | 04 VW R32 | 03 GTI VR6 - all of them 24v VR6 based.
      Current other- 00 M Roadster | 12 Kia Soul 1.6 stick |01 ZRX1200R | 03 KLX400R | 00 XR200R

    15. Member newcreation's Avatar
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      02-06-2010 06:52 PM #40
      Quote, originally posted by PowerDubs »
      Yea, I've seen aftermarket made from aluminum before..I guess I am just surprised to hear of VW doing it from the factory.

      x2
      -JAMES-
      DRIVEN/Built /UM Turbo R - VR NATION

    16. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      02-06-2010 09:20 PM #41
      They're cast something, I just have to find them!
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning
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    17. Member Det. John Kimble's Avatar
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      02-06-2010 11:45 PM #42
      Subscribed to this thread
      Some very interesting information already

    18. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      02-07-2010 11:56 AM #43
      Quote, originally posted by need_a_VR6 »
      You'd probably only need to upgrade the springs if you use larger cams. It might be an inexpensive way to more lift/duration with stockers.

      Ok. Found the stock cams spec chart.
      If my math is correct these rockers will bring the stock cams from
      9.85IN / 9.90EX to 11.21IN / 11.27EX

      -Josh
      Current VAG collection- 08 TT coupe 3.2 MT | 06 Phaeton 4-seater 6.0 W12 | 04 VW R32 | 03 GTI VR6 - all of them 24v VR6 based.
      Current other- 00 M Roadster | 12 Kia Soul 1.6 stick |01 ZRX1200R | 03 KLX400R | 00 XR200R

    19. Member killacoupe's Avatar
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      02-07-2010 03:11 PM #44
      Quote, originally posted by need_a_VR6 »
      Good question.
      I had a reman 2.8L 24v BDF head that used cast aluminum rockers. The other BDF head and BJS heads I had at the time both uses a stamped steel rocker. I'll try and take pics of the 'reman' ones as they seem to not be the norm. Dimensions between both sets seemed similar enough that I didn't measure anything.

      i broke one of those aluminum rockers in my motor [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthdown.gif[/IMG]

    20. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      02-07-2010 04:07 PM #45
      Have you switched to the stamped ones now?
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning
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    21. Member killacoupe's Avatar
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      02-07-2010 04:32 PM #46
      yes sir

    22. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      02-07-2010 04:42 PM #47
      Good to know. Those cast ones seemed pretty heavy.
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning
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    23. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      02-08-2010 08:35 AM #48
      Just purchased 1 of these rockers for testing purposes.
      Since it is coming from overseas, it may take a while to arrive.
      -Josh
      Current VAG collection- 08 TT coupe 3.2 MT | 06 Phaeton 4-seater 6.0 W12 | 04 VW R32 | 03 GTI VR6 - all of them 24v VR6 based.
      Current other- 00 M Roadster | 12 Kia Soul 1.6 stick |01 ZRX1200R | 03 KLX400R | 00 XR200R

    24. Member killacoupe's Avatar
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      02-08-2010 08:44 AM #49
      I got 23 of them next to me.....you can have them to test

    25. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      02-08-2010 09:01 AM #50
      I'm not talking about factory rockers...I've ordered 1 of the rockers that this thread is about..from a car overseas (non-vag) that will increase our lift.
      -Josh
      Current VAG collection- 08 TT coupe 3.2 MT | 06 Phaeton 4-seater 6.0 W12 | 04 VW R32 | 03 GTI VR6 - all of them 24v VR6 based.
      Current other- 00 M Roadster | 12 Kia Soul 1.6 stick |01 ZRX1200R | 03 KLX400R | 00 XR200R

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