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    Thread: Increasing my rocker ratio

    1. Member XXX008XXX's Avatar
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      02-11-2010 04:30 PM #106
      those are single groove keepers. josh i am selling my supertech springs and retainers cheap and they are brand new as for what KingVR is saying about a competitors product over yours, ferrea is made in china. i know this for a fact, and supertech is made in argentina. i dont know about you but they both sound like sh!t
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    2. 02-11-2010 05:16 PM #107
      Quote, originally posted by XXX008XXX »
      those are single groove keepers. josh i am selling my supertech springs and retainers cheap and they are brand new as for what KingVR is saying about a competitors product over yours, ferrea is made in china. i know this for a fact, and supertech is made in argentina. i dont know about you but they both sound like sh!t

      haha....that's a good one.

      "Ferrea is made in China" yet you're unloading your better? Supertech stuff for cheap?

      Just to set the record straight from how it is known in my industry:

      Ferrea valves are made in Argentina. All three owners of Ferrea came from Argentina. Mr. Ferrea grew up with the guy who started the factory where our valves are produced. This is how we started in the industry 40+ years ago. We own most of the machining "cells" where our specific valves are produced within, which allows us complete control over production methods and quality. BTW, most all European automakers produce their valves in this same factory. And yes, yours as well. Retainers, springs, locks, and spring locators are made right here is America.

      SuperTech on the other hand....hmmmmm, I believe that they MIGHT be made in a valvetrain factory that you pass by while driving from the airport on the way to our factory. THAT factory was started by a previous employee from the factory that we work out of. (...don't all industries have situations like that) This factory's main market is producing ultra-low performance valve applications for engines such as lawn equipment, generators, and perhaps some automobiles as well. Keep in mind SuperTech has its hands busy trying to have parts made that go elsewhere inside an engine. Meaning, they don't have any one key market that they focus on to be an expert in.

      Manley is another interesting story as well. We've had customers of ours that have told us that THEIR customer insisted on only paying for Manley valves and nothing more. So when he gets a box of valves from them, every two valves appear as if they were made in a different factory. Different finishings and different tolerances, etc. Reason being: they come from at least 3 different factories, get stored in the same boxes together, then pulled by luck of the drawn at random when building a complete set of a valves for a customer. Some from China, some from India, some from Argentina, etc.


    3. Member XXX008XXX's Avatar
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      02-11-2010 05:29 PM #108
      i never said my supertech stuff was better, and i am selling it because i dont have a 24V anymore. they are all pretty much junk. most honda people choose supertech over ferrea. why? who knows. cheaper maybe? of course your going to back up the product that writes your check.
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    4. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      02-11-2010 05:41 PM #109
      KingVR,

      Enough is enough. This thread was started about my acquiring and testing a higher ratio rocker arm for our engines, but for the last couple pages you have turned it into a Ferrea sales pitch and now have moved on to bashing other manufacturers without them being able to defend themselves about your claims.

      To that end, I have sent this link to Willy @ SuperTech so he can read it and comment if he feels he needs to.

      I do not know if Ferrea parts are superior to SuperTech, they may be or they may not.

      I do know 2 things..

      #1 Willy has always been very good about answering any questions I have ever had since I've been dealing with him over the last 6-7 years. Supertech has also worked to address any problems with their products that I have ever heard about.

      #2 Your bashing of a 'competitors' product while probably the result of youthful pride, energy and ego.. is in bad taste and makes a bad impression of the company you work for.


      You came in here telling me first you wanted me to test some shims..then it evolved into the concept that you thought there would be an improvement with the springs + retainers as well.

      I offered to take the time & labor to rip my engine down, buy new gaskets + supplies, drive to & pay for a dyno then write up the results for them if they comp the parts.

      You came back and said the marketing department would allow a discount of "Damn near 1/2 off at the price of $506.40 complete."


      To which I replied to you that I know enough about business to be well aware half off *retail* is still their cost or less.

      If I am taking time and money out of my own pocket so can they. They stand to make a profit off other peoples sales on this. I won't make any money..I'm spending time & money on a small *chance* I might see a couple hp.


      You came into my thread trying to push those things...and maybe they are better...maybe they will make a difference.. why don't you front the $500 then? If they work and I can prove it, others will buy them and you can do what you need to do with your marketing dept at that time in regards to your contribution.

      Here is the bottom line- PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

      -Josh
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    5. 02-11-2010 05:57 PM #110
      Quote, originally posted by XXX008XXX »
      i never said my supertech stuff was better, and i am selling it because i dont have a 24V anymore. they are all pretty much junk. most honda people choose supertech over ferrea. why? who knows. cheaper maybe? of course your going to back up the product that writes your check.

      Well, yes I would back it up. But not only because it pays my check. Once someone understands the value of a better product and all the reasons behind it, I'm willing to bet that most all would never consider any alternatives after that. Supertech uses from fairly impressive "creative writing" for their marketing with products like "high-compression" valves which might bump you up 0.2:1 ratio while adding additional valve mass causing your valves to become unstable at an earlier RPM than they would have being dished. Unstable valvetrain means significant power loss in comparison to any power you MIGHT have gained with "highER compression".

      That being said, it is very difficult to educate the consumer on the values. One of the reasons that I am here. It doesn't matter if a sale occurs just because I am here in a couple threads. I don't make commission, and we don't sell direct. I'd like to see some accurate results for power gains on any engine, but the VR6 has always been my personal favorite.


    6. 02-11-2010 06:22 PM #111
      Quote, originally posted by PowerDubs »
      KingVR,

      Enough is enough. This thread was started about my acquiring and testing a higher ratio rocker arm for our engines, but for the last couple pages you have turned it into a Ferrea sales pitch and now have moved on to bashing other manufacturers without them being able to defend themselves about your claims.

      To that end, I have sent this link to Willy @ SuperTech so he can read it and comment if he feels he needs to.

      I do not know if Ferrea parts are superior to SuperTech, they may be or they may not.

      I do know 2 things..

      #1 Willy has always been very good about answering any questions I have ever had since I've been dealing with him over the last 6-7 years. Supertech has also worked to address any problems with their products that I have ever heard about.

      #2 Your bashing of a 'competitors' product while probably the result of youthful pride, energy and ego.. is in bad taste and makes a bad impression of the company you work for.


      You came in here telling me first you wanted me to test some shims..then it evolved into the concept that you thought there would be an improvement with the springs + retainers as well.

      I offered to take the time & labor to rip my engine down, buy new gaskets + supplies, drive to & pay for a dyno then write up the results for them if they comp the parts.

      You came back and said the marketing department would allow a discount of "Damn near 1/2 off at the price of $506.40 complete."


      To which I replied to you that I know enough about business to be well aware half off *retail* is still their cost or less.

      If I am taking time and money out of my own pocket so can they. They stand to make a profit off other peoples sales on this. I won't make any money..I'm spending time & money on a small *chance* I might see a couple hp.


      You came into my thread trying to push those things...and maybe they are better...maybe they will make a difference.. why don't you front the $500 then? If they work and I can prove it, others will buy them and you can do what you need to do with your marketing dept at that time in regards to your contribution.

      Here is the bottom line- PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

      Although my prior post before this was submitted AFTER you sent yours, I hadn't read yours....

      ....but yes, I did realize that this thread did get hi-jacked away from the original topic of rocker ratio. And I agree I was unprofessional about a few things, but I came here as an enthusiast simply trying to educate the public, and possibly help someone get a comp'd set (or at least a good deal) on parts in exchange for some technical data.

      The offer to provide a set of parts that are retail-valued at nearly a thousand dollars wasn't approved because time after time that we have done so, the promise of providing us detailed data fell through. Not a single time that I know of has anyone provided us with the details that we requested. The most that we have got in response was that it "works great, more power in the top-end powerband" and such. And when we ask for the dyno files to review for ourselves, they just tell us that they'll get to it...but then never do.

      At any rate, you obviously have some loyalty to SuperTech since you've known someone there for some time which is understandable. I stand behind what I know to be true. If something isn't what it is, I would love to see the facts laid out as they are, just as I explained about Ferrea. But no, this should not be a thread with vendors bashing each other, and for that I most definitely apologize and will clean anything up that is asked of me if needed.


    7. 02-11-2010 06:29 PM #112
      Quote, originally posted by PowerDubs »
      #2 Your bashing of a 'competitors' product while probably the result of youthful pride, energy and ego.. is in bad taste and makes a bad impression of the company you work for.

      My only reason that SuperTech came into a conversation was because someone else brought them in and bashed Ferrea as being junk made in China, and then praised the SuperTech brand as being better...and conveniently an item of his for personal sale.

      Perhaps it was a joke? Text over the internet is too easily taken the wrong way, and proof of it is that even I may have taken it the wrong way.

      Sorry to all for getting caught up in it.


    8. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      02-11-2010 06:30 PM #113
      Cool. Nothing personal... things were just getting out of hand.

      As far as me sharing info VS hoarding it, all anyone has to do is click the links in my sig. I've got plenty more than that, but that is the limit of what it will let me have there.

      -Josh
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    9. 02-11-2010 07:10 PM #114
      KingVR you qouted me and you made your rant on "competitors" I didn't bash Ferrea Products infact I posted up the shims thats are from you guys..


      Only reason I didn't go with "your" valves was because you guys didn't sell "stock" sized R32 valves, you wanted me make a custom order for stock size valves. (This was about 2-3 yrs ago, so you might sell stock sized valves now.) I didn't want to go with over sized valves.

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    10. Member XXX008XXX's Avatar
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      02-11-2010 07:23 PM #115
      Quote, originally posted by KingVR »

      My only reason that SuperTech came into a conversation was because someone else brought them in and bashed Ferrea as being junk made in China, and then praised the SuperTech brand as being better...and conveniently an item of his for personal sale.

      Perhaps it was a joke? Text over the internet is too easily taken the wrong way, and proof of it is that even I may have taken it the wrong way.

      Sorry to all for getting caught up in it.


      show me where i said one was better then the other. how can you proove one is better then the other? its like what piston is better then the other... its all personal preference. the fact is everything aftermarcket fails. its how the company takes care of it that makes them good.
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    11. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      02-11-2010 08:50 PM #116
      The only good piston is the one that doesn't hit **** once it's all the way up.
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    12. 02-12-2010 11:39 AM #117
      Quote, originally posted by XXX008XXX »

      show me where i said one was better then the other. how can you proove one is better then the other? its like what piston is better then the other... its all personal preference. the fact is everything aftermarcket fails. its how the company takes care of it that makes them good.

      I would. However you deleted your post where you offered them for sale to someone, and then stated that you "know for a fact that Ferrea stuff is made in China" which is a completely false statement, and since it is common for people to assume the reputation that products made in China are of lower quality in comparison to products made in other countries, that could be considered slander to say the least.

      And yes. It easily can be explained how material selection, heat-treatment methods, dimensional designs and manufacturing technique can make one product superior to another. No question about it.

      I'm sure the same applies to pistons, but I am definitely not an expert on those. If you want to know specifics of what I am talking about, PM me or email me to my Ferrea work email address, or even call me on the phone: 888-733-2505 extension 215. It would not be advantageous for me to spell out all the details to become public knowledge.

      I think I've provided enough information for this thread. Good luck to all.


      Modified by KingVR at 11:40 AM 2-12-2010


    13. Member XXX008XXX's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 11:51 AM #118
      Quote, originally posted by KingVR »

      I would. However you deleted your post where you offered them for sale to someone,


      Modified by KingVR at 11:40 AM 2-12-2010

      no i didnt, and that post is there and is un-modified. try again.

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    14. Member XXX008XXX's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 11:53 AM #119
      Quote, originally posted by XXX008XXX »
      those are single groove keepers. josh i am selling my supertech springs and retainers cheap and they are brand new as for what KingVR is saying about a competitors product over yours, ferrea is made in china. i know this for a fact, and supertech is made in argentina. i dont know about you but they both sound like sh!t

      ACTUALLY HERE IT IS AGAIN AND ITS THE FIRST POST ON THIS PAGE. HERE I EVEN HIGHLIGHTERD WHAT I SAID

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    15. 02-12-2010 12:07 PM #120
      Quote, originally posted by XXX008XXX »

      ACTUALLY HERE IT IS AGAIN AND ITS THE FIRST POST ON THIS PAGE. HERE I EVEN HIGHLIGHTERD WHAT I SAID

      Didn't see that before. But someone deleted something, because the first post on the top of this page was not yours previously.

      ...and making a statement that "both sound like sh!t" doesn't really balance out the false statement of Ferrea being "Made in China".


    16. Member newcreation's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 12:10 PM #121
      His post was there the whole never modified or deleted i have been following this thread real close as i do most threads
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    17. Member XXX008XXX's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 12:19 PM #122
      Quote, originally posted by KingVR »

      Didn't see that before. But someone deleted something, because the first post on the top of this page was not yours previously.

      ...and making a statement that "both sound like sh!t" doesn't really balance out the false statement of Ferrea being "Made in China".

      reguardless what is made where, everything is lowest bidder, so the products could be machined in argentina, but the metal is still junk chinese stuff i am sure. oh and i am still waiting for proof on how ferrea is better then supertech... both companies are the same. i buy what i get the best deal on. i have had good luck with both your company and supertech, but honestly after reading what you write, it makes me stray away from ferrea a little bit.

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    18. Member Draxus's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 12:39 PM #123
      Guys... can we get back on f*cking topic please?

      I don't give a **** about your drama.

      I want more power.

      Quote Originally Posted by BlownR View Post
      I have seen several open slots, usually after tequila. Wait, I think that's different.
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    19. 02-12-2010 02:08 PM #124
      Quote, originally posted by Draxus »
      Guys... can we get back on f*cking topic please?

      I don't give a **** about your drama.

      I want more power.

      Great idea.

      If anyone wants to ask me something specific, (besides highly-confidential information obviously), then simply PM, email, or call me. If its something of universal interest that is on topic that you feel you would like everyone to learn from that I can assist with, then I would be more than willing.

      However, I don't appreciate someone generalizing that there is no difference in performance, reliability, or quality. Completely unfounded. I'll say no more about it. If someone wants details on such differences, please contact me directly.


    20. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 02:44 PM #125
      Back on topic (thank god)..

      At first all I could find was a guy selling these rockers USED on Ebay.uk...and I had 'bought it now'..but it has been about a week and I never heard back from him. Just heard back from the source I have found in the UK for these rockers NEW and have ordered 1 and now we just have to wait on it to arrive.

      I had to pay a steep premium to purchase and ship just 1 (about $35), but was told that if it works..the cost in the future for a set of 24 shipped to me would be aprox 432.48 (today's exchange rate)

      I have not stopped looking around as I still think they probably can be found for a little less eventually.

      Hey Paul.. where are those new charts you promised?

      -Josh
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    21. Member Draxus's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 03:12 PM #126
      Dubs,

      I missed it apparently.

      What did you order?

      Thanks.

      -Spencer

      Quote Originally Posted by BlownR View Post
      I have seen several open slots, usually after tequila. Wait, I think that's different.
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    22. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 03:39 PM #127
      Start at page 1, post 1.
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      02-12-2010 03:52 PM #128
      Oh, I thought those were looked at in the CAD models a few pages back and deemed ineffective due to their offset.

      Or was that something else?

      Quote Originally Posted by BlownR View Post
      I have seen several open slots, usually after tequila. Wait, I think that's different.
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    24. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 03:59 PM #129
      The pics Paul made were just a quickie he threw together just to explain concept.. not true to exact #'s.

      KingVR is of the mindset that they won't work...but the very offset he is talking about making them not work is explained by me in the next post as to why I think it will *help* us.

      As mentioned, start at page 1, post 1. All the info we have currently is in this post.

      -Josh
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      02-12-2010 04:01 PM #130
      Awesome. I am anxious to see how it goes.

      Any word on that intake manifold you molested?

      Did you install it yet?

      Quote Originally Posted by BlownR View Post
      I have seen several open slots, usually after tequila. Wait, I think that's different.
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    26. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 04:04 PM #131
      That's a separate post..or ask me via PM.

      No point in cluttering up this thread. KingVR already did enough of that.

      -Josh
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      02-12-2010 04:29 PM #132
      I still need the following measurements:

      Camshaft Base Circle
      Rocker Roller Diameter

      Once I have those, I can update the diagrams. I don't know where any of my spare parts are at the moment, there's lots of unlabeled boxes still.

      -Paul
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    28. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 05:03 PM #133
      Emails sent requesting that info.

      Closing time on a Friday eve is a bad time to ask such questions.

      -Josh
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    29. 02-12-2010 05:04 PM #134
      no caliper owns me. I would have posted up hours ago. sorry guys.
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    30. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      02-15-2010 07:57 AM #135
      Quote, originally posted by need_a_VR6 »
      I still need the following measurements:

      Camshaft Base Circle
      Rocker Roller Diameter


      One down, 1 to go..

      Camshaft base circle radius: 17mm AVL SCHRICK GmbH

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      02-15-2010 08:54 AM #136
      I still haven't found the box my rockers are in.
      -Paul
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    32. 02-15-2010 10:06 AM #137
      Roller wheel Ø: 17.98mm (.708")

      Approximated distance from lifter's "pivot-center" to roller wheel's centerline: 22.64mm (.891")

      Approximated distance from lifter's "pivot-center" to valve tip-contacting area: 46.13mm (1.816")


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      02-15-2010 11:18 AM #138
      Quote, originally posted by need_a_VR6 »
      I still haven't found the box my rockers are in.

      My garage by chance???
      Let me know...


    34. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      02-15-2010 12:01 PM #139
      Quote, originally posted by KingVR »
      Roller wheel Ø: 17.98mm (.708")

      Approximated distance from lifter's "pivot-center" to roller wheel's centerline: 22.64mm (.891")

      Approximated distance from lifter's "pivot-center" to valve tip-contacting area: 46.13mm (1.816")

      Here are the specs given to me by the engineer at the company that makes the rockers, you were very close. Thanks for helping! -


      Roller wheel - 17mm (same as the cam base circle, go figure)
      length from pivot to valve for is 46mm
      distance from pivot to roller is 22.8mm


      -Josh
      06 Phaeton 4-seater 6.0 W12 | 04 VW R32 | 03 Gti 24v VR6 | 12 Kia Soul 1.6 stick
      01 ZRX1200

    35. 02-15-2010 02:17 PM #140
      Quote, originally posted by PowerDubs »

      Here are the specs given to me by the engineer at the company that makes the rockers, you were very close. Thanks for helping! -


      Roller wheel - 17mm (same as the cam base circle, go figure)
      length from pivot to valve for is 46mm
      distance from pivot to roller is 22.8mm

      17mm "Base Circle" of the camshaft is a 17mm RADIUS. The Ø/Diameter is 34mm.



      Unless my caliper is off by .98mm on nothing else but this roller wheel, check back with that guy about that being 17mm.
      This rocker is from a "BDF" 2.8L 24v VR6...which is not a 3.2L from an .:R32 but I can't see them having changed the roller wheel for no reason.


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