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    Thread: Some Mk1 history tidbits I wasn't aware of...

    1. Member
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      03-07-2010 02:27 PM #26
      Wonderful info, thx so much! What a treasure Morgan is. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that I'd love to see Morgan post some facts/info/stories/more memorabilia/etc--please link it to this post. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emgift.gif[/IMG]
      '76 Rallye Yellow Golf w/ 58k original (sold, but staying in Oregon)

    2. Member mk1g60gti's Avatar
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      03-07-2010 04:03 PM #27
      Quote, originally posted by mk216v »
      Wonderful info, thx so much! What a treasure Morgan is. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that I'd love to see Morgan post some facts/info/stories/more memorabilia/etc--please link it to this post. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emgift.gif[/IMG]

      x2
      For trade...my motorcycle for your girlfriend...email

    3. 03-07-2010 07:09 PM #28
      Quote, originally posted by mk216v »
      Wonderful info, thx so much! What a treasure Morgan is. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that I'd love to see Morgan post some facts/info/stories/more memorabilia/etc--please link it to this post. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emgift.gif[/IMG]

      Thanks - glad everyone approves. Morgan's in the process of moving from IN to PA, so some of his goodies probably won't see light again for a short while. I've let him know about this post and he should be chiming in shortly.
      Yes, those early "body in white" cars were sold to the public, and yes I've seen them (unfortunately mostly in junk yards or photos of them in scrap yards). Finding one of these cars in good enough shape to restore would be a "holy grail" find for me.
      Last edited by buzbomb4; 05-07-2010 at 11:47 AM.

    4. Senior Member urogolf's Avatar
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      03-07-2010 07:49 PM #29
      amazing stuff posted up in here
      but from that main link this confuses me
      Today, the Mk 1 Rabbits look tiny, but they were nearly 10 inches (254 mm) longer than the original European Golf, thanks mostly to larger bumpers. A late-model Rabbit GTI had the same 94.5-inch (2,400-mm) wheelbase as the European car, but was 155.3 inches (3,945 mm) long, five inches (127 mm) longer than a late European-market Mk 1. ...........
      am i reading this correct saying that the US bumpers made the car 10 inches longer than a 'euro' one?
      ................................................www.CCCIS.com

    5. Member Kevin Rowley's Avatar
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      03-07-2010 08:48 PM #30
      Quote, originally posted by urogolf »
      am i reading this correct saying that the US bumpers made the car 10 inches longer than a 'euro' one?

      Sounds about right. 5" further out on each end. Compare an early Euro Golf with the small metal bumpers to an early Westy with the US-spec crash bumpers.
      2004 Volvo C70 LPT
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    6. Senior Member urogolf's Avatar
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      03-07-2010 08:52 PM #31
      yeah i guesss so
      when you see the numbers on screen it seems so much
      ................................................www.CCCIS.com

    7. 03-07-2010 09:53 PM #32

      Quote, originally posted by mk216v »
      http://ateupwithmotor.com/comp....html


      Quote, originally posted by 4000stq »
      79 gas had squares, diesel had rounds, 80 all squares

      Quote, originally posted by 4000stq »
      79 gas had squares, diesel had rounds, 80 all squares

      In for LATER....


    8. Member cooljet's Avatar
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      03-09-2010 09:30 PM #33
      I thought that I would add a few thoughts on my early days at Westmoteland. It was March 1977 that I was hired as a supervisor for the body shop. With in two weeks of hire I was working in Wolfsburg,West Germany.
      I went through training and certification in VW schools for welding, metal finishing and brazing. After a month in West Germany I received VW certification in welding and metal finishing. As the plant was beginning to take shape internally I was selected to develop and run a training school in the Greensburg area. My school was to train the first 150 employees that would be the inplant trainers as we ramped up production. I was again sent to Wolfsburg to get some more training and different VW certifications. When the plant started to assemble cars my assignment was to run the respot line. The respot line was the area which assembled bodies were finished welding both inside and outside.
      When the Respot line was up and running I was asked to take over the the final inspection line in the Paint Shop. In that position I was responsible for final repair, undercoating and final buyoff off painted bodies shipped by conveyor to assembly. In that position I had my hands on every vehicle that left the plant until I left in the 80's.
      A note about the plant itself. When I walked into the plant in 77 the plant was touted as the largest dirt floor under roof in the world.
      Ever wonder hoe VW paid for the vacant plant in Westmoreland. VW made and agreement with Chrysler to supply engines, transmissions for the Chrysler K car for I think 3 years as payment.
      A few notes on the first 250 MKD (middle knock down) cars that where built in Westmoreland. These cars where all German built bodies, all painted white, had round headlights, but the most important feature that distinguishes this body was a .375" maroon tape strip that was placed along the side character line.
      The reason that VW left the US. All of you have to understand that the US experiment was the first time that the German management had turned total control for manufacturing over non German management. The final straw was the poor quality the the US management could not control. In all of the rest of the world any plant outside Germany have top management that contain Germans.
      Well that is all for now.
      Capt.

    9. Member T3Bunny's Avatar
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      03-09-2010 10:00 PM #34
      On my 1983 rabbit when I gutted the interior, I pulled out exactly 140lbs. Though I forget if this included the dash. This did include the seats. Considering the other differances in the german vrs american bunnies, I can easily see a differance of 90-140lbs being very accurate. I would venture the differance might even be slightly higher...
      I have yet to boither weighing in my 1977. I keep meaning to go do this.
      This is an amazing and very informative thread guys!

    10. Member Thecleaner's Avatar
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      03-10-2010 01:28 AM #35
      Thank you both for "real, useful info."
      There is sooo much misinformation about our cars, and the plants they were built in. The facts that you have shared will hopefully dispel some of that. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

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      03-10-2010 02:49 PM #36
      Thanks Capt!!! [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emgift.gif[/IMG]
      '76 Rallye Yellow Golf w/ 58k original (sold, but staying in Oregon)

    12. Member deer_eggs's Avatar
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      03-10-2010 04:24 PM #37
      I know its been said already, but this thread is full of great information that you never get to hear about. I'm looking forward to learning more about the inner workings of the westy plant! Thanks to all who have contributed so far. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      Click here to bother me on facebook...

      Check out mk1dubz.com,a better Mk1 site.
      KDI customs custom upholstrey shop in Joppa, MD. Check out the new website! He can seriously do anything.

    13. Member cooljet's Avatar
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      03-12-2010 08:08 PM #38
      Short Story; A Bad Day at Westmoreland
      I was working as the supervisor in the paint shop final buy off area. I was at the shipping point between paint and the assembly conveyor. This area was about 15 feet above the floor. I spotted the plant manager and his group of managers comming through the shop. I knew that something was up. Mr. Cummins climbed into may area and called to the Body Shop Manager to ge up there. He told me to hold the line and not to release an more bodies to assembly. He started to point out problems that had been passed thru that were bad. His face was taunt and the Body Shop Manager was showing signs of fear. In an Instant He turned toi me a told me to release the safety locks that lock the body to the conveyor. Then he told the people in the station to lift the body off the conveyor. We all looked in amazement on the order. He looked me in the eye and said "Over the side". We wiggled the body free of the conveyour and the railing an allowed it to fall to the floor. It landed on its roof in a loud crash rocking and pivoted in a circle. I was taken back. Mr Cummins told me to release the empty carrier and bring up another car. When the other car arrived in position he went over the car an told us to repeat the throwing off another body. He then left taking all of the managers with him. About three hours later here he comes alone. Ididn't know what to think. He pulled myself and the crew off the line and told us why the he went through this exercise and that we were not going to send junk under his watch. An experience in quality that I will never forget.
      Capt.

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      03-12-2010 08:24 PM #39
      Quote, originally posted by cooljet »
      Short Story; A Bad Day at Westmoreland
      I was working as the supervisor in the paint shop final buy off area. I was at the shipping point between paint and the assembly conveyor. This area was about 15 feet above the floor. I spotted the plant manager and his group of managers comming through the shop. I knew that something was up. Mr. Cummins climbed into may area and called to the Body Shop Manager to ge up there. He told me to hold the line and not to release an more bodies to assembly. He started to point out problems that had been passed thru that were bad. His face was taunt and the Body Shop Manager was showing signs of fear. In an Instant He turned toi me a told me to release the safety locks that lock the body to the conveyor. Then he told the people in the station to lift the body off the conveyor. We all looked in amazement on the order. He looked me in the eye and said "Over the side". We wiggled the body free of the conveyour and the railing an allowed it to fall to the floor. It landed on its roof in a loud crash rocking and pivoted in a circle. I was taken back. Mr Cummins told me to release the empty carrier and bring up another car. When the other car arrived in position he went over the car an told us to repeat the throwing off another body. He then left taking all of the managers with him. About three hours later here he comes alone. Ididn't know what to think. He pulled myself and the crew off the line and told us why the he went through this exercise and that we were not going to send junk under his watch. An experience in quality that I will never forget.
      Capt.

      Throwing down the gauntlet, BOOM!
      Awesome.
      [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

      PS--Completely unrelated (save for German pride) but I was at Chevron last night filling up my Audi. 12 other cars with left hand gas fillers all waiting for open pumps. I was the only one with a right hand filler and had them all to myself. Gotta love ze Germans.
      '76 Rallye Yellow Golf w/ 58k original (sold, but staying in Oregon)

    15. Member MissHood's Avatar
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      03-13-2010 01:55 AM #40
      Super Cool, This is the best post i've seen in awhile. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      keep typing capt
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      You can't expect them to walk to and from school carrying their babies..

    16. 03-13-2010 02:22 AM #41
      Quote, originally posted by BeatBox_kid »
      Super Cool, This is the best post i've seen in awhile.
      keep typing capt.

      [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    17. 03-13-2010 08:09 PM #42
      I spoke with the Captain this evening (get it, Captain Morgan) and we discussed those 250 MKD cars and how to determine if it's genuine.
      Morgan claims the only clues would be the body color (white paint with maroon stripe), and the VIN would be German but the manufacturer sticker in the door jam would have a Westmoreland build location. So, start checking those VIN's and manufacturer stickers kids, I really wanna see some pics of one of these cars surviving today...
      Here's a couple questions for Morgan that I keep forgetting to ask - what interior colors did these MKD cars have? What trim levels? Was it an even mix of 2dr and 4dr cars?
      You were around during the VW Caddy days too, and I know I've heard the stories, but would you be kind enough to share some of them here also? It's a real focus point of current VW marketing to talk about a "true American-inspired VW" but few understand the VW Caddy was the first.
      One more request - tell the story of those Dasher coupe shells

    18. Member cooljet's Avatar
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      03-13-2010 10:01 PM #43
      Ever wonder how the plant was built internally along with the production of vehicles. Here is a little history lesson. When I walked in to the plant in 77 the main floor was just dirt. We were scheduled to have the plant up and running for the next year launch. We had our offices in construction trailers outside of the plant. In the middle of the plant was a large layout of the production floor. This layout contained a grid pattern, with each section of the grid assigned a number and date. Completion of the floor with all of it pits was outllined with dates and sequence of operation. I want to tell you that I would be working on installing a welding fixture in a completed section and right next to me as a cement truck pouring concrete. It was like a ballet of organized caos as the worked was completed. The level of detail that the Germans maintained at a distance was fantastic. In the progression of process the final repair was finished first and then it was split up between assembly and the body shop. One of the neat things that the Germans did was build the tooling ofsite and have it proved out then sent to Westmoreland. Being in the body shop it was amazing to install a fixture which 3 to 6 months ago had been in Germany on the floor at Wolfsburg. Another neat part of this process was the German Misters (Management) that were sent to live in the stated until the plant wad up and running. VW brought them to Greensburg and bought them furnished houses to live in. My mister was Carl Hein Schmidt. We became friends and he was a real mentor to me. He was working in the Wolfsburg plant before the war and then pressed in to military service. At the end of the war he went back to Wolfsburg to start up the plant, one brick at a time. He told me that his first job was to clean up the devistation of the intense boming. I had told him of my keen interest in the VW story and he took time to recount many stories of how the plant was restored by the British and that he had served as a worker, supervisor and then a manager. This guy was sharp as a tack. And he didn't take prisiomers when it came to quality. He was the one that taught me many metal working and welding tricks in production setting.
      Sorry for the rambling but it is such great story. As I put the way back in gear I will recount other little tid bits for your enjoyment.

    19. Member 2L16VTurbo's Avatar
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      03-14-2010 12:48 AM #44
      either way, this article is great. thanks for sharing!

    20. Member cooljet's Avatar
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      03-16-2010 08:24 PM #45
      Buzbomb has asked some questions so I will try to answer then as best as I can. As for the interior colors I vaguely remember tan, black and maroon.
      As for trim levels were the base and mid trim models. The major reason was the Germans referred to the base model as the report card of the company. To understand this the base model contained more exposed metal and paint. When the base models hit final buy off they usually had more defects. In the early days of production we were able to produce near perfect vehicles and we in the body and paint shop were proud. The standard for a acceptable build was a 2.0 rating based on a 0 to 4.0 system. There days when basic models attained a 1.8 rating.
      As far as the mix it was even mix between 2 and 4 door.
      I was there for the first build of the US caddy. When the caddy was ready to launch I was working in the rear floor area. This was the area that received a complete makeover in order to build the truck floor. We built the first sub assembly and was asked to follow it to the weld line for assembly. I watched as the rear floor was put in place in the fixtures and watched as the caddy come together. THe main body weld fixture was massive tool that had 10 complete weld fixtures the indexed on a specific time. I wish I had a camera to document. The next major piece was the body side and before my the eyes the caddy was born on US soil. The body was finished it was removed form the weld fixture and sent to the respot line for final welding. When the truck was finished I felt that I had witnessed history.
      Having been in body shop for all of the initial builds was an honor.
      Capt.

    21. Member wantacad's Avatar
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      03-16-2010 08:44 PM #46
      Quote, originally posted by cooljet »
      Buzbomb has asked some questions so I will try to answer then as best as I can. As for the interior colors I vaguely remember tan, black and maroon.
      As for trim levels were the base and mid trim models. The major reason was the Germans referred to the base model as the report card of the company. To understand this the base model contained more exposed metal and paint. When the base models hit final buy off they usually had more defects. In the early days of production we were able to produce near perfect vehicles and we in the body and paint shop were proud. The standard for a acceptable build was a 2.0 rating based on a 0 to 4.0 system. There days when basic models attained a 1.8 rating.
      As far as the mix it was even mix between 2 and 4 door.
      I was there for the first build of the US caddy. When the caddy was ready to launch I was working in the rear floor area. This was the area that received a complete makeover in order to build the truck floor. We built the first sub assembly and was asked to follow it to the weld line for assembly. I watched as the rear floor was put in place in the fixtures and watched as the caddy come together. THe main body weld fixture was massive tool that had 10 complete weld fixtures the indexed on a specific time. I wish I had a camera to document. The next major piece was the body side and before my the eyes the caddy was born on US soil. The body was finished it was removed form the weld fixture and sent to the respot line for final welding. When the truck was finished I felt that I had witnessed history.
      Having been in body shop for all of the initial builds was an honor.
      Capt.

      That is awsome... [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
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      You're new here but don't be a DORK.....
      Cheers, WWR.
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      Don't swap if you can't weld or fabricate. It's not a trivial task just to bolt everything up. There's a lot of nut-scratching involved. Take your time and do it right.

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      03-16-2010 08:57 PM #47
      Gotta love the Capt.! I wish I could forget that "whisper blue" interior though!

    23. 03-16-2010 09:29 PM #48
      Quote, originally posted by slats »
      Gotta love the Capt.! I wish I could forget that "whisper blue" interior though!

      X2. In my mind, that color will forever be "Quaalude Blue".
      The Captain does know his Caddys - here's a pic of his "longhare" project:

      I'll let Morgan explain...

    24. Member Thecleaner's Avatar
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      03-17-2010 12:19 AM #49
      like my new favorite show that I just gotta watch....... [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    25. Member cooljet's Avatar
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      03-17-2010 07:00 PM #50
      Buzzbomb asked me to relay a story of my time in Wolfsburg:
      With in two weeks of hire I was sent to Wolfsburg to begin my certifications for the body shop. Also I was to be involved in the tooling that was being built to go to Westmoreland. We had a couple of different offices in the plant, but the neatest on of them all was a small brick building in the back of the plant that was for Westmoreland and prototype vehicles. I have a picture of one of the first Prototype caddys built and when I find it I will get It posted. Once I was there that was where I spent most of my open time. Alot of the major tooling was sent their for us to work with and train on, but around the exterior were European bodies that I had never seen. These where Bodies in White (just shells) sitting on pallets waiting for things to happen. The 2 bodies that I fell in love with was the RO 80 and the Dasher 2 Dr fastback. Now being a gear head I immediately started to evaluate how I could acquire a Dasher shell and stuff a huge American V8 into it. As I developed a friendship with the German engineers I began to ask pointed questions of how I could buy one of these bodies and get it back to PA for a little hot rod work. I actually was able to find and ally in the engineering dept that made some inroads for me to purchase said body but when it came down to the final hour the VW management thought that I might be setting a bad example with their products. It was fun explaining to the German engineers the dynamics of a large V8 in a light body. The dream never came to reality but it was real fun building it in my head on German soil .
      Capt

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