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    Thread: Want to replace synchros (synchronizers) in my Syncro. Need a little input.

    1. Member CrazyMonkey's Avatar
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      03-02-2010 12:49 AM #1
      Howdy. The 2nd gear synchro is toast and the 3rd gear synchro is a little iffy, so I was planning on pulling the gearbox apart this weekend to replace them. I open up the electronic Bentley I purchased, and it has everything related to the Syncro EXCEPT information on the internals of the gearbox. In Repair Group 35, Manual Transmission - Case, Gears, Shafts, all that is there is a note that says "Note: Repair information for Group 35 can be found on Technical Bulletin, Repair Group 35, No. 96-02." Figures.
      Would I be close enough in referencing the FWD section of the manual to get the 'box apart and put back together? Does someone happen to have this particular technical bulletin and would be willing to share?
      Has anyone tried this on their Syncro transmission, and are willing to lend some tips?
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      03-02-2010 12:21 PM #2
      CrazyMonkey I am in the middle of installing TDI friendly gearing in my 02C. Once you remove the angle drive it's basically a front wheel drive trans. I've decided not to touch the angle drive.
      I might have some syncros if you are in need...
      1995 GLX TDI SYNCRO Build thread: [URL="http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=226323"]. sold
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    3. Member CrazyMonkey's Avatar
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      03-02-2010 01:58 PM #3
      Thanks for the offer. I might take you up on that if I can't get some synchros locally... as far as I can tell, it's basically an 02A, so I should be able to use 02A synchros...
      Thanks for the input. It's much appreciated! [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
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    4. Member CrazyMonkey's Avatar
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      03-03-2010 06:38 PM #4
      IM sent.
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    5. Senior Member TBT-Syncro's Avatar
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      03-03-2010 08:33 PM #5
      Quote, originally posted by CrazyMonkey »
      , so I should be able to use 02A synchros...

      correct

    6. Member CrazyMonkey's Avatar
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      03-04-2010 02:14 PM #6
      I had a good chat with my local independent shop last night. We went through the ETKA and found all the parts. The synchros are the same between the 02A and 02C as TBT-Syncro stated and as we all thought. HOWEVER, there is a model-number split depending on the tranny code. So I had to go home and find the tranny code to make sure I get the right synchros ordered. I'm not sure how much difference there really is, but better to have the right part just in case I get the tranny apart and go "ah crap!"
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    7. Member CrazyMonkey's Avatar
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      03-05-2010 05:43 PM #7
      Well, the tranny parts won't be here until next week. So this weekend I'm at least getting the engine and transmission out and parts swapped over from the broken engine to the good engine...
      I'll take some pictures of the transmission teardown for sure if folks are interested.
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      03-05-2010 11:21 PM #8
      I think the difference between the earlier and the later trannies is the 5th gear syncro set up. I compared my CBC with a 1996 TDI (CTN) trans and the syncros on 1st thru 4th were identical.


      Modified by ptrmzr at 10:24 AM 3-6-2010
      1995 GLX TDI SYNCRO Build thread: [URL="http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=226323"]. sold
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      03-10-2010 08:39 AM #9
      Corrado Bentley has good instructions
      and as already said parts are the same as a 02A
      Cleary Coachworks

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    10. Member CrazyMonkey's Avatar
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      03-10-2010 11:24 AM #10
      Thanks for the input. I have the Passat G60 Syncro manual, so I've been using that. It covers removal of the 02C really well, but then doesn't cover the guts of the 02C. The guts of the 02A are actually very well covered (seems to be almost identical to the Corrado manual), so I'll be using that when I pull the housing apart.
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    11. Member efritsch's Avatar
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      03-10-2010 11:31 PM #11
      Where did you get the Syncro Manual?!?!?!
      Quote Originally Posted by 90quattrocoupe
      I am old enough that I only have to be nice when I want to.

    12. Member CrazyMonkey's Avatar
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      03-11-2010 01:11 AM #12
      Quote, originally posted by efritsch »
      Where did you get the Syncro Manual?!?!?!

      http://www.bentleypublishers.com
      They have the "eBahn" version there that has all the Syncro stuff (except the aforementioned tranny guts). I thought about the paper version, but it just said it had Syncro wiring diagrams, didn't mention anything about the PG engine code. So I just print what I need at the time, then I'll put it in a binder when I'm done.
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    13. Member CrazyMonkey's Avatar
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      03-11-2010 01:27 AM #13
      What prodded the desire to replace the synchros now instead of this summer (the original plan) when it's warmer and I actually feel like riding my bike to work more was that several weeks ago I lost a rod bearing (and probably some other stuff in the process). The car has ~150,000 miles on it and I didn't feel comfortable just trying to do rod bearings and an oil pump. Besides, with that kind of mileage, chances are I'd find other stuff as soon as I pulled the pan and a full rebuild would ensue. So I picked up a lower-mileage Corrado G60 engine to do a swap, then I could take my time tearing down and then rebuilding my engine. My wife pointed out that I was already planning on replacing the synchros this summer, so it would make more sense to just do it now while I had everything out anyway. She's so smart.
      So.... for fun, here are some pictures from last weekend. A friend came over to lend a hand for a little while on Saturday. I got absolutely nothing done during the week. Stuff kept happening. Like, dryer vent breaking off in wall, faucet breaking, etc. So I wasn't as prepped and ready to go as I would have liked Saturday, but oh well.... onto the photographs:

      --- Saturday ---
      Gertrude waiting for her engine. I had a better shot lined up, but I forgot the hood on my lens and the photo was all washed out when I looked at it later. Eh, whatevs.


      Here we go!


      Battery removed, all wiring disconnected:


      Labeling FTW!


      End of the day... all coolant lines disconnected and/or removed, front axles unbolted, A/C compressor, power steering pump removed and ziptied in place, charger inlet and outlet plugged/wrapped.


      We caught most of the coolant....


      Bits 'n' Pieces


      Just for fun... I need a tripod, but I think these turned out okay.... dusk, no flash...


      --- Sunday ---
      Got home from church, ate lunch, then back to work at ~2:00 PM. Got the alternator and charger removed and the driveshaft unbolted. Holy crapoly that was tough! Here's how it looks in the Bentley:


      Easy, right? Well, the three bolts that connect the damper on the front of the driveshaft to the output of the right-angle drive had been bolted in with some form of thread locker... stronger than Loctite blue. Luckily my dad came over to help. I'm plenty strong, but he's stronger. He was still benching 400 lb. when he turned 50! Anyway, without his help, I wouldn't have been able to get those bolts off. Besides the thread locker, to make matters worse was the difficulty in reaching the bolts. The driveshaft attachment is directly above the suspension crossmember and just ahead of the steering rack... oh, and then the downpipes are also in the way. We used several long extensions and a u-joint to even be able to get a ratchet on the bolts. Check out this access nightmare:
      From in front of crossmember:

      From behind:


      And, a picture with the charger and everything removed.


      I had to quit at 5:00 PM 'cause I had a meeting at church (so I only got in about 3 hours.... the vast majority of that trying to get those stinkin' three bolts out). All I have left to do now to get the whole contraption out is unbolt the motor mounts and the downpipes. So hopefully some evenings this week will see the motor and tranny coming out and bits swapped from the old engine to the new as necessary. Then the real fun begins. I decided that while I have everything out, I might as well replace the 2nd and 3rd gear synchros. I can't get into 2nd without double-clutching from 1st to 2nd and rev matching from 3rd to 2nd. Then 3rd occasionally doesn't want to go back into gear from 4th. So splitting the tranny will probably happen next weekend.
      Whew!
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    14. Senior Member TBT-Syncro's Avatar
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      03-13-2010 02:00 PM #14
      if you're pulling the motor and tranny it would have been a LOT easier to just drop the sub-frame and motor.

    15. 03-13-2010 02:18 PM #15
      Or... you could have removed the bumper and rad suport and rad, rotated the AC condensor out of the way without disconnecting any of the AC system. The only issue then is the 6 downpipe bolts. I think you will have to remove the intake manifold to get at them (at least 5 of them are easier from the top) other from below.
      Ask me how I know!! The syncro engines are a pain to remove. Have mine out right now and all torn apart.
      Some more info:
      5 Speed Manual Transmission 02C - Changes, Modifications
      Group: 34
      Number: 92-05
      Date: November 30, 1992
      Subject:
      5-Speed Transmission 02C, Changes, Modifications
      Model(s):
      Passat Syncro
      from 1992 M.Y.
      As of transmission manufacturing date 31 10 1, the following changes were made to the 02C Syncro transmission:
      5th gear synchronizer changed
      Shift fork for 5th gear changed. New shift fork can be installed in all previous transmissions.
      The previous ball bearing for the shift rod in the end cover was replaced with a sleeve bearing. The shift rod was changed accordingly.
      The present shift rod with the spring loaded ball must no longer be installed after the above transmission manufacturing date. Only use the new shift rod.
      As of transmission manufacturing date 06 2 2, the following changes were made:
      A larger ball bearing is used for the shift fork 1st to 4th gear.



      Modified by starrd at 1:35 PM 3-13-2010

    16. 03-13-2010 04:15 PM #16
      Quote, originally posted by starrd »
      Or... you could have removed the bumper and rad suport and rad, rotated the AC condensor out of the way without disconnecting any of the AC system.

      Then undo the 6 bolts on the downpipe at the catalytic converters,
      drop the heat sheilds, and undo the 6 bolts on the first driveshaft CV.
      Drop the engine/trans/front suspension/1st section of the drive shaft/downpipe as one unit.
      -Dave

    17. Member CrazyMonkey's Avatar
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      03-20-2010 01:16 AM #17
      Quote, originally posted by TBT-Syncro »
      if you're pulling the motor and tranny it would have been a LOT easier to just drop the sub-frame and motor.

      Agreed, but I have no way of getting the car up high enough to then get everything out from under it.... well, no way I was comfortable with. It all came out.
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    18. Member CrazyMonkey's Avatar
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      03-20-2010 01:26 AM #18
      UPDATE (from last weekend):
      I got the engine and transmission out with the help of a couple friends last Saturday afternoon. It actually didn't take very long, so that was nice. I decided that while I still had some light, I'd finish replacing all the light fixtures in the house. Then I cleared out some boxes in the garage and made a run to the recycling center. We got our oldest to bed, then I decided to go back out to the garage and separate the engine and transmission... well, I didn't quite get it. Got all but one of the mating bolts loosened... the last one sheared the extension on my socket wrench... and smashed my knuckles. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthdown.gif[/IMG]
      After church on Sunday, I borrowed some tools (gear pullers, etc.) from another friend, then picked up some 1/2" extensions and a breaker bar from Sears. I got the transmission and engine separated, got the flywheels and clutches pulled off both engines, got the old engine mounted on the engine stand, and took a bike ride with my older daughter.
      Pictures:

      I didn't have to remove the hood at least!

      Empty-ish bay:

      Feeling pretty good at this point. Little did I know that later on in the evening, I wouldn't be having such a good time.

      3/8" extension failure.


      Old engine on the stand.

      Transmission and "new" engine with the flywheel and clutch removed.

      Here's what the Syncro tranny (02C) looks like.

      As proof that it's basically an 02A, here's a close up of the differential housing.


      I was too pooped to try to start disassembling the transmission Sunday night. Slowly but surely I guess.... Tomorrow the tranny is coming apart.


      Modified by CrazyMonkey at 10:27 PM 3-19-2010
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    19. Member efritsch's Avatar
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      03-24-2010 10:10 PM #19
      You sir, are my new hero.
      I'm wanting to re-gear a the tranny in my Syncro and use 16v gears instead. I find the gears in the stock tranny far too short.
      I will be watching with interest.
      Quote Originally Posted by 90quattrocoupe
      I am old enough that I only have to be nice when I want to.

    20. Senior Member TBT-Syncro's Avatar
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      03-24-2010 11:22 PM #20
      Quote, originally posted by efritsch »
      You sir, are my new hero.
      I'm wanting to re-gear a the tranny in my Syncro and use 16v gears instead. I find the gears in the stock tranny far too short.
      I will be watching with interest.

      16v tranny gears arent very different
      the problem with the syncro tranny is that first and second are really short.
      i'm running stock 1-4, with a euro tdi 5th, and a 16v R&P. if i was to do it again, i'd just probably use VR6 gears to get the taller 1&2.

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      03-25-2010 09:37 AM #21
      Quote, originally posted by TBT-Syncro »
      16v tranny gears arent very different
      the problem with the syncro tranny is that first and second are really short.
      i'm running stock 1-4, with a euro tdi 5th, and a 16v R&P. if i was to do it again, i'd just probably use VR6 gears to get the taller 1&2.

      exactly
      if you want taller gears just find a vr 02a with a grenaded diff and use the gears and r&p
      thats what i did and it works great
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    22. Member CrazyMonkey's Avatar
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      03-27-2010 12:33 PM #22
      Update from last Saturday (copy+paste from another forum).
      ______________________________________________
      I only got a chance to work on it on Saturday, most of which was spent trying to find a gear puller that would actually fit between the side of the case and the 5th gear on the pinion shaft.... I ended up buying a pulley puller and modifying it... didn't want to modify someone else's tools. I forgot to take a picture of that, so I'll try to remember to do that tomorrow. Anyway....

      Transmission end cover removed, gear lube draining. Pretty color huh?


      5th gear set. You have to pull these to separate the case. On the 020, the 5th gear housing is an actual bolt-on piece, so when it's removed, you can use any gear puller you want really. On the 02A/02C, the "5th gear housing" is just a piece of the case casting, so you need something skinny enough to fit between the sides of the housing and the gear.


      After removing the end cover, I removed the right-angle drive:


      Here's the right-angle drive by its lonesome.


      After FINALLY getting a puller that worked on the 5th gear on the pinion shaft... here's the 5th gear set including synchro and shift fork.


      Shift mechanism removed (middle), driver's side drive flange removed (bottom), and another picture of the right-angle drive (top).


      All I have left to do here is remove the remaining trans case bolts and knock the case apart with my rubber mallet. Notice the paint I added to make sure the pins that the shift forks pivot on go back in the same spot. The pins can be seen on the upper left of my makeshift work bench.


      Half of the case, shift forks, 5th gear set.


      Other half of the case with the shafts and differential still sitting in it.


      See that glob of gunk on the magnet? Overall, I was surprised at how clean the inside of the case was. But.... if you look closely, you'll see the remnants of a ball bearing in there. That bearing is one of the bearings the shift forks pivot on... er... used to pivot on. That was probably what caused the 2nd gear synchro to go bye-bye. It turns out that the bearing is no longer available. I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to do yet. German Transaxle in Bend said they would sell me a used shift fork assembly with good bearings.... I haven't found anything online quite yet.


      Shafts 'n' stuff out and on the ground. I haven't made it to pulling the gears off the pinion shaft yet.


      I also got the exhaust manifolds off of both engines. Here's the engine that came out of the car (no picture of replacement engine).... all of the exhaust studs except one pulled out of the head.

      So, there you go. I'll keep taking pictures and hopefully this will be of some help to someone at some point....
      __________________________________________________ ______________
      More pictures will be coming later today.
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    23. Member efritsch's Avatar
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      03-29-2010 11:14 PM #23
      So do you have to pull it all apart just to get the bell housing half off?
      Quote Originally Posted by 90quattrocoupe
      I am old enough that I only have to be nice when I want to.

    24. Member CrazyMonkey's Avatar
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      03-30-2010 12:14 AM #24
      Quote, originally posted by efritsch »
      So do you have to pull it all apart just to get the bell housing half off?

      You have to remove the 5th gear set, the right-angle drive, the shift selector shaft and bearing, the pins for the shift forks, and the driver's side drive flange to separate the bell housing portion from the gear housing portion.

      EDIT: Oh yeah, and the two bolts that secure the reverse idler shaft to the case.


      Modified by CrazyMonkey at 9:29 PM 3-29-2010
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    25. Member CrazyMonkey's Avatar
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      03-30-2010 12:24 AM #25
      So, like I mentioned above (I think), one of the little bearings for the shift forks disintegrated. Those bearings are no longer available. I could have purchased a refurbished assembly from a place in Colorado (I think it was) or from German Transaxle in Bend, OR. I went to my favorite local shop and was chatting with them about the dilemma and they recalled that they had a burned-up Eurovan transmission in the "warehouse". They let me take it home to tear apart and see if the shift forks/shift fork bearings would work for me. They said that if it works, great, and they would just charge me a nominal amount for the parts I rob (of course I have to reassemble and bring it back), and if it doesn't work, then it's back to ordering the shift forks from somewhere.
      So Friday night after work, I blew apart the Eurovan tranny. Bits of bearings and all sorts of crap were falling out of it. Apparently, someone ran it out of oil. That was apparent when I drained only a few tablespoons out... and it smelled AWFUL. Yikes! I got the transmission apart and everything inside was either trashed, or in pretty iffy shape EXCEPT for the shift forks! I test-fitted them to my case (without gears and whatnot) and they slide like hot butta! Sweet!
      Okay, here are the pictures. I didn't get much done over the weekend with kids' birthday parties and stuff, but I got SOMETHING done at least.

      My "special" gear puller. I took a pulley puller and added longer bolts with washers to space the arms out a little, then the one arm didn't fit between the gear and the case, so I ground it down. I thought I took a picture of that, but I guess not. Anyway...


      Eurovan transmission apart. The shift forks fit in my transmission and the bearings rolled smoothly. So I stuck my forks in here and will reassemble the Eurovan tranny and take it back to the shop.


      The shift forks from Gertrude (the car's name). Notice the missing bearing in the arm on the bottom?


      Pulling 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear and the 3-4 shift collar off the pinion (output) shaft. I put the shaft back into that half of the case (didn't bolt it down) just for ease of gear puller operation.


      Pinion shaft with not much left on it. The gears are off to the left.


      Here's the 2nd gear synchro. It's 3 pieces. The rest of the synchros are a single piece.


      The 2nd gear synchro ready to be installed.


      That's all I have for pictures for now. I got the new 2nd gear synchro and 2nd gear slid back on the shaft. The 3rd gear synchro and the gears are ready to go back on, but I just haven't gotten there yet. Not bad for an hour's worth of work... not counting cleaning up to take pictures...
      Eschew obfuscation!

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