Any 09 people have/want a dpf delete?

[WhiteTDI]

on a scale of 1-10, how difficult would it be do perform this swap? also about how long do you think it would take to put it in and take it out when needed.

[shortysclimbin]

If a brake change is a 1 and a timing belt change is a 10 I would say maybe 5-6. The job takes about 8-12hrs depending on who is doing it to remove the downpipe and install this one. The aftermarket one only took me about 1hr to pull out myself after test fitting. Overall the stock unit is a pain.

[4running]

What about a mid pipe to delete the rest of the cats? I don't believe they have any sensors or anything else to interfere as far as the ECU goes. I do realize that they are a drop in the bucket compared to the DPF back pressure wise. But at least it will be cheap and easy.



Kyle

[dieselfreak86]

Personally I have a goal to be able to have these cars see 250whp and close to 60mpg with low emissions. I think we should all strive for cars that are powerful, economic, and better than 90% of the vehicles sold to us today.

I really dig your style and attitude towards this. I def think 250HP and maybe 350FTlbs would be just perfect in my wagen. You took the words right out of my mouth when you said about having a powerful, economic car that gets 60MPG with low emissions. 60Mpg is def feasable since my trip from Lakewood,wa to portland, OR i got 52MPG! Just keep up the good work!

[4running]

Yeah no kidding, I think this will be a significant gain, and should serve as a gateway for other perfomance upgrades to become possible.


Kyle

[1972SS454]

good stuff here

[4running]

Whats the price shaping up to be?

There is some rumble other places in the VW world about a delete for these cars. It might be nice to have the corner on the market for a short time until some of the big boys jump on this. I have a feeling this is going to be popular. I bet the bigger players are still a long way out.



Kyle

[dieselfreak86]

So as I sit here on 24hr duty and watching YouTube. I see a guy that has a new dodge ram with a cummins in it that spent 5 bucks for resistors to his dpf. Now I know it's not a vw it's a dodge but couldn't this be applied and done to the tdi? If the resistors tell the ecu hey there's no issues we are free flowing no soot buildup. Couldn't we remove all sensors and dpf and just put a bare downpipe in? Wouldn't it cut cost because then we wouldn't have to drill and weld holes and bungs for the sensors because they would be replaced by resistors? Hopefully this makes sense. It is 215 in the morning and my mind is surging with ideas. Would vagcom give us the resistance readings or would we have to do it the old fashioned way with a multimeter? I would like everyones input on this. I'm still new to how these vw ecu work. Blah only roughly 7 more hrs to be awake then going shooting my customized rifle. Nothing fancy.

[shortysclimbin]

Price wise and more info should be updated here shortly. Keep your eyes and ears open Next week is going to be a busy one making downpipes.

[dieselfreak86]

Price wise and more info should be updated here shortly. Keep your eyes and ears open Next week is going to be a busy one making downpipes.

SWEETNESS!!!

[ensignba]

Actually a reflash shouldn't be necessary:

There are only 3 sensor connections for the DPF, 2 of them are pressure differential sensors - in the factory locations one is mounted before the DPF and one after. When there is a certain pressure difference between them(i.e. clogged DPF), this triggers a DPF regen. In a straight pipe configuration, there will never be a pressure difference large enough to request a regen from the ECU.

The third sensor is an EGT that tells the ECU if the exhaust is hot enough while doing a regen.

The only tell-tale sign will be in the ECU logs, if a tech ever looks at how many miles have past since a regen occurred, it may raise some questions.

[dieselfreak86]

Actually a reflash shouldn't be necessary:

There are only 3 sensor connections for the DPF, 2 of them are pressure differential sensors - in the factory locations one is mounted before the DPF and one after. When there is a certain pressure difference between them(i.e. clogged DPF), this triggers a DPF regen. In a straight pipe configuration, there will never be a pressure difference large enough to request a regen from the ECU.

The third sensor is an EGT that tells the ECU if the exhaust is hot enough while doing a regen.

Thats good news about the sensors. the only down fall i would see to the EGT not being high enough for regen is that the computer will throw fuel into the "dpf" to make burning the soot possible since the EGT are too low. If i am miss thinking this please let me know. i was reading that if the EGT wasnt high enough then it would throw RAW fuel into the exhaust stroke to make the temps inside the DPF higher and better to burn off the soot. If no reflash is necessary that would be outstanding for my situation on money right now. I would also think that the two pressure sensors would be at two different settings since at all times the pressure at the before sensor would always be higher than that at the after. Please let me know the flaws in my thinking so i can have better understanding and unflawed knowledge of these "cancer boxes!" lol

[OttoSchultz]

Thats good news about the sensors. the only down fall i would see to the EGT not being high enough for regen is that the computer will throw fuel into the "dpf" to make burning the soot possible since the EGT are too low. If i am miss thinking this please let me know. i was reading that if the EGT wasnt high enough then it would throw RAW fuel into the exhaust stroke to make the temps inside the DPF higher and better to burn off the soot. If no reflash is necessary that would be outstanding for my situation on money right now. I would also think that the two pressure sensors would be at two different settings since at all times the pressure at the before sensor would always be higher than that at the after. Please let me know the flaws in my thinking so i can have better understanding and unflawed knowledge of these "cancer boxes!" lol

I think you've basically got it right. Simply tricking the ECU probably won't work too well.

In addition to the extra fuel in the exhaust stroke for an active regen, the intake flaps and EGR throttle are also actuated to bump EGTs during passive regens. Boost is also affected to keep power levels normal during an active regen. Plus, during engine warmup, the post-injection also takes place to help get the DPF and Ox catalyst up to temp.

The sensors measure a differential in pressure, so yes, they probably will be at different pressures all the time, with the one exception being immediately after an active regen.

[dieselfreak86]

Cool thanks OTTO i was wondering if i was missing something in my self teaching. So in your opinion just installing a down pipe would most def throw codes? I was just curious about the resistors because if the resistors gave the correct feedback to the computer then it shouldn't start a regen and you could also fool it into thinking the EGTs are at the sweet spot.

[OttoSchultz]

Cool thanks OTTO i was wondering if i was missing something in my self teaching. So in your opinion just installing a down pipe would most def throw codes? I was just curious about the resistors because if the resistors gave the correct feedback to the computer then it shouldn't start a regen and you could also fool it into thinking the EGTs are at the sweet spot.

I don't know the logic of the ECU and whether it can be tricked. It might even look for increasing/decreasing values over time.

The other thing to think about though, is that if regens are not happening, the DPF will clog up pretty rapidly.

[dieselfreak86]

The other thing to think about though, is that if regens are not happening, the DPF will clog up pretty rapidly.

I was talking about without the DPF. I have a 2010JSW and almost 25000 miles on it already so itll soon be out of warranty.

[wagner17]

im in for updates. im excited to see products for the tdi

[projectracerabbit]

this has proved to be a very interesting thread.

any new info?

[OttoSchultz]

I was talking about without the DPF. I have a 2010JSW and almost 25000 miles on it already so itll soon be out of warranty.

That's what I figured. What I was getting at was that you'd have to find out how the ECU interprets the values it gets from the sensors on the DPF. It may expect to see changing values, so installing resistors may not work. That's why I'm thinking a tune may still be necessary.

[dieselfreak86]

Oh ok otto i was making sure we were both on the same page. dont get me wrong id still love to have a tune as well but i think the prob most people are running into is deleting the DPF file in the computer not just the tune.

[OttoSchultz]

Oh ok otto i was making sure we were both on the same page. dont get me wrong id still love to have a tune as well but i think the prob most people are running into is deleting the DPF file in the computer not just the tune.

Right, but a good tune can do more than just create power. Just as most tunes for earlier generation TDIs alter the ERG cycles, a tune with a DPF delete/deactivation will probably be needed.

[shortysclimbin]

JSW scheduled to be in the shop tomorrow for welding and fabrication work! Although we ran into a small snag that may put production out a little bit. The CNC mandrel bender shop busted their bender on our downpipes! They where trying to remove an extra weld that I would need to do so that it could be a true one piece pipe and busted some expensive parts on the bender. They where telling me it should be in this week or next so that they could finish up our order. Regardless, WE are moving forward with doing some installation tests and fitments again to get the test car ready for the final fitment. This includes a full 2.5"exhaust and tune to take advantage of the new hardware. I should be posting pics up on my facebook page this week to keep you guys happy .. but please be patient, I will be welding a lot and not eating much turkey this holiday to try and get these done for the end of the holiday season!

[4running]

Hey thats R&D, all part of the process! I can't wait to see the finished product.

[wagner17]

im in for this. very excited. keep us posted... ill send some of our left over turkey to you.

[shortysclimbin]

Sorry guys for taking so long! I just ate my first bit of turkey here Monday! Last week was a long week of welding, fabrication work, and administration stuff trying to get all the parts in to finish these! Sometimes things just really do not like going as planed!

But good news! One more item on the bench to mate up with the Downpipe... Full 2.5" mk5/6 jetta diesel exhaust



I also made up adapters for going to the stock exhaust for those not looking to run the downpipe and want more than what the other two companies are offering (My pipe removes the last rear box and muffler vs. just the muffler)


If interested in more pics check my facebook page out. I should have more info going up on that more often because I can take a quick shot with my phone.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Perfor...54270104594811

I will keep everyone posted when the pipes gets in.. still waiting

[wagner17]

im so excited for this wanna do one on a 2011 golf. lmk im in. then this will make me get a re flash haha

[dieselfreak86]

all i can say is AWESOME!!!! one question though is why wouldnt you go with a 3in exhaust and down pipe? Also does the aero muffler do any benefit to the cr tdi? not hating just curious. keep up the great work!!!! so does $749 include tuning for the delete?

[mako159]

I currently have the borla (Part number #140369) which is a 2.5" straight pipe from the dpf back, would I have to add an additional pipe to connect from my pipe to the vband of the downpipe?? Awesome work btw!!

[shortysclimbin]

DieselFreak-

Thanks for the I needed it after all the work this past week! To answer a few of your questions:

3" exhaust and downpipe are overkill for these smaller frame turbos, the most you will gain is louder exhaust noises and turbo spool issues from a lack of back pressure. If anyone is interested in going with a gt30V frame turbo or larger on these blocks and would like a custom setup let me know and I would be more than happy to build one. Right now though 90% of the people who own these cars are not at that point the stock and euro turbos have an outlet that is around 55mm in diameter. I have no idea where Banks got the idea that a 4.5" truck tip and exhaust is needed on these motors.. obviously you are paying more for the name and look than you are paying for true engineering work. (sorry my opinion, please take with a grain of sand).

The Aero muffler does two things: 1) It takes away some of the higher pitch exhaust noises and tones them down. 2) It allows user to meet local exhaust laws for places that say you need one regardless of if the car is quite or not. I will get some youtube videos up once things are done so you can hear it. It should be nice with the full downpipe and not too loud for most.

The initial downpipe price does not include tuning. I or Mark can offer a few options including just DPF delete, stage 1, or stage 2. Sadly the cost of the custom CNC fittings for the turbo, and all the sensors bungs drove up the price drastically. I really was hoping to get the prices lower, because I too know that is important, but I refuse to cut quality or corners to supply people with sub par products. If you also go out and look others are selling these at well over $1200 USD right now for just the pipe right now, I think coming in at a lower price really does show you I have all you guys in mind!

Mako- Can you do me a favor to help me and others out on here who may be in the same place? Can you take a photo of the under side of your car that clearly shows where the pipe ends and connects to your factory exhaust? I will also need you to measure things up. I may need to make an add in pipe or converter for other aftermarket exhausts. If It is just slightly short I can add it to the downpipes at little cost increase, otherwise I may need another part made up... It is hard to tell without have more info. Lets see what we can come up with.

[dieselfreak86]

Thanks shorty. awesome feedback. i think the price is fair. awesome job. i will be saving my pennies. Selling my Mustang gt today so thatll free up some money.

[mako159]

I'll try to get some pic's tonight..

[mako159]

I snapped a couple last night, hope this helps!

[shortysclimbin]

Mako,

Is that a golf or jetta? The piece I was talking about that my exhausts is removing and that other companies do not is connected between your flapper valve and your new exhaust. The downpipes will be setup to connect to either a 2.5" pipe or someone can purchase an adapter to make it fit to the other side of the flapper valve. In your case you have a few options:

1) Get the downpipe and have the exhaust go from 2.5" down to 60mm through the flapper valve and then back up to 2.5" from about the rear seat back. This leaves you with ~4 feet of oem pipe

2) Get the downpipe and I can make up a custom piece for your car that should fix your problem. Although this will require cutting the aftermarket "exhaust" to remove the flange and get a true 2.5" exhaust system.

3) You could sell your exhaust and buy one of mine This would make fitment easier, but would not be the most cost effective solution for you.


If you decide to go with option two let me know I will need some measurements from you.

[mako159]

Yeah, I see what you saying..
I'll probably end up going with the second option and have the midpipe made to connect the downpipe to the rear section for a straight thru 2.5" turbo back.

Seems to make the most sense to go that route.

[dieselfreak86]

Any sound clips and dyno yet???