13mm triple square for 06 Passat rear brake carrier??

[dkellner]

I'm changing the rear brakes on my 06 Passat. (Thanks for the great DIY on this topic) Pulling off the calipers was no problem but removing the carrier to get the disk off looks like it requires a 12 point triple square (ZXN) driver. The biggest one I had on hand was 12mm, to small. I measured it with my calipers and it looks like 13mm. I checked Mac tools and Amazon web sites as well as NAPA and other local places. Looks like all I can find is 12mm and 14mm.

Am I missing something here or do I need a tool made out of un-obtain-ium??

Have the battery charger and VAG-COM already and would hate to bail out to the dealer over a $8 driver.

Ideas?

[spitpilot]

I'm bettin its the same as on the MKV cars..14mm triple square...don't know what suspension on B6 Passat looks like..but if its like MKV you need verrrrrrrrry short triple square bit..I bought a Snapon one to do my front suspension upgrade....and it was way too bulky and long to give the a straight shot at turning the carrier bolts..and you don't wanna be off center when you apply force to a triple square bit..ask me how I know! Also, I'd bet these are "stretch troqued" one time use only bolts like on the MKV's...you torque em to a spec then give "1/4 turn more" to stretch em..reusing these kind of bolts risks stress cracking failure, so I'd reccomend you get new bolts from dealer..mine were about $2-3 each...

[dkellner]

Thanks for the tip, I ordered a set of triple square bits up to 16mm. I'll give the 14mm a try. Thanks for the tip on the bolts.

[tysonw]

I am replacing the rear brake pads and rotors on an '09 jetta and have also come across a bolt that seems too large for 12 mm. Did the 14 mm work; it does seem like it needs a 13?

Thanks.

[spitpilot]

Rear caliper carrier bolts on MKV are indeed 14mm triple square...you need to order new stretch bolts..torque spec on carrier bolts is 66 ft lb + 1/4 (90 degree) turn...its that last 1/4 turn that's a betch....really tight...as it's "stretch torquing" the bolts. If you don't have a lift you need to get the car up really hi on jackstands to have room in case you need "cheater" pipe on your breaker bar/torque wrench to get these suckers off and then torqued back correctly!

[Anony00GT]

Not for nothing, but does that bracket actually have to be removed to get the rotor off? I know on some models (not sure about '06 Passat in particular), the rotor can be removed without removing that bracket. It's at least worth a shot before you go ordering special tools to do something you don't have to do. Get the rotor loose from the hub and see if you can fanagle it off without removing the bracket. If not, you've gotta remove the bracket, but at least try it.

[spitpilot]

Yes unlike the earlier brake design (on my 2000 Passat) where you could slip the rear rotors out without removing the caliper carrier...these must be removed. One other thing...B6 Passats have "electronic parking brakes"..these brakes must be release with a VAG COM computer...Do NOT just try and retract em with "caliper retraction" tool that rotates the piston, like you use on earlier VW's! You will screw up the calipers and have to get new ones!

[vwetish]

I have replaced the brakes twice already reusing the same bolts
no problem what so ever.
I also track my car, so do not worry go ahead and reuse them

[spitpilot]

I have replaced the brakes twice already reusing the same bolts
no problem what so ever.
I also track my car, so do not worry go ahead and reuse them

Reusing stretch torqued bolts NOT a good idea...For proof....search MKIII Forums for "crank pulley flew off"! Guys reused their crank pulley stretch torqued bolt and have had stress fracture. When you "stretch torque" a bolt you take it part way into the "yield" area for the steel....Will reusing that always cause failure?...Of course not...but to save a few bucks...why risk it?...These bolts are about $2 and change each.

[vwetish]

do not want to end fighting with but the issue with the stretch bolts is little exaggerated over here in the forums. The example with the pulley bolt I think it is only a very rare and could also happen using new bolt. happened to my friend on 2.8 v6 with new bolt. it is only recommended and it is not a must. Even the dealer don not replace those, they just say they do because the fail rate is so low. I pound on my brakes on the track time after time, slowing down from 120-130mph. 2 set of pads, over 60k no problem what so ever.
BTW where I come from rear pads do not come with new bolts for the caliper like here in US

[vwetish]

XLR-8 is offline
n00b

Join Date
May 11th, 2010
Posts
1

Who is Likely to have most up to date information?
05-29-2010 08:24 AM #18

I also talked to the service manager and parts desk at three local VW dealers. They all insist that the caliper carrier bolts are reusable.

It is difficult to believe that there is a vast conspiracy among VW dealer service departments to knowingly refuse to follow VAG recommended safety procedures to save $12 worth of bolts on a complete rear brake job $300-$450, risking customer safety and exposure to lawsuits.

It is also difficult to believe that Bentley Publishing Service manual printed 4 years has better, more current information than 6 out of 6 randomly selected VW dealers.

The most rational answer is "Yes the bolts are reusable"

[spitpilot]

When you see a torque spec that reads... "Torque to XX ft lbs + 1/4 (or 1/2 in some cases) turn more."...That is stretch torquing the bolt. Every instance where I see that spec...the shop manuals (not just for my MKV but other cars as well) then say "always replace"...and taking a fastener into yield in the process of torquing it can't be good to do more than once...Just good mechanical engineering...VW dealers do replace other stretch torqued bolts...wonder why not these?...I know some VW wrenches well...I'll ask 'em next time I see 'em!...Suspension clamp bolts are stretch torqued...ECS has kit to replace "one time use fasteners"...all points to NOT reusing these type of bolts...Now the bolts that come with factory installed "lock tite" type locking compound...I clean and reuse those all the time...just slap some "Locktite Blue" on 'em and you're good to go!

[Anony00GT]

I have done hundreds of brake jobs on VW/Audi vehicles, BMW vehicles, as well as just about every other American and Asian make vehicle. I have NEVER even looked up a torque spec for the caliper bracket (caliper carrier) bolts, let alone replaced them, unless they were stripped or otherwise unusable. I make them good and tight when installing them, and have never had a problem.

I have never heard of anyone replacing those bolts just because they were removed. I'm 100% sure you'll be fine re-using them if you tighten them down good during the installation. Actually, I usually remove and re-install them with an impact gun and swivel socket as long as space permits. I have never had a problem doing this.

[vwetish]

yes good and tight!
that is the actual torque spec for brake jobs and other general repairs.
can not agree with you more and Im not been ironic.
I moved here 6 years ago and was surprise for I while by how much people obsess about this.
this are stainless bolt and very durable. even if they break the caliper carrier it is not going to come off.
just how the design is . because they stretch by the head and not the tread. so they will become loose, rattle and vibrate but you be able to safely slow down.auto engineers though of this way before we all did. case closed

comment on spitpilot:
VW dealers do replace other stretch torqued bolts...

no they do not!
have subframe removed and reinstalled with same bolt
right side suspension
engine torque mount aka dogbone and ect

and it is not anly vw!

Porsche Cayenne, audi q7 and toureg all used triple square bolts, stretch

I witness with my own eyes brake job on Q7 just little over 2 weeks ago
The mechanic kinda laugh at me when I mentioned it

And you know why?
because they are close to being undestroyable when using hand tools let alone from regular day to day braking

[nonacj]

They have you here. I tried to buy it at a dealer, couldn't seem to find it. i tried to get it from a tool dealer, no avail. A 1/2" or 13MM is exactly what it is. it's a 12 point male, like the triple square sets you see for sale but oddly, no one can provide a 13. Well, Lone Ranger to the rescue. Accidentally I noticed a tool on the rack at my local Auto Parts Store, Lisle Tools #62200. Which is a heater hose adapter extractor tool. Fit it perfectly and saved the day.