#1
Quote, originally posted by Autoblog » If there's one thing that's certain in this crazy world, it's that Ultimate Driving Machines are driven by their rear wheels. Sure, there's an occasional all-wheel-drive model thrown in for good measure, but even those revert to the tried-and-true RWD when extra traction from the front two contact patches isn't deemed necessary or desirable. Well, alert the media (oh, wait...): BMW has confirmed the rumors that it will build front-wheel-drive automobiles. At the Annual Accounts Press Conference for 2010, Dr. Norbert Reithofer, Chairman of the Board of Management of BMW, had this to say:
[The small car] segment is expected to grow further. And we will take advantage of this opportunity. We are exploring the possibility of developing a joint architecture for the front and four-wheel drive systems of these cars. In other words: There will be front-wheel drive BMWs in the smaller vehicle classes in the future.
Heresy, BMW fans? We wouldn't worry too much – there seems little chance that BMW will make a wholesale switch from powering the rear wheels to the fronts, especially for its mainstream models like the 3 Series, 5 Series and 7 Series – but the addition of a FWD chassis will make it easier for the automaker to share platforms with other companies and to "reduce [its] fleet's carbon-emissions worldwide by at least another 25 percent between 2008 and 2020."
In fact, take it from Reithofer himself:
BMW will continue to be a sport-inspired brand. We at the BMW Group continue to deliver maximum performance, tackle new challenges and sharpen our competitive edge.
#2
Before anybody starts screaming about heritage and the wonderfulness of AWD....don't. This is gonna be a few entry-level small cars for Europe and China, probably electric, and we won't see them. They barely brought us the 1-series. If we do see one, it'll probably be an electric version. To the extent that we see the platform at all, it'll be the Mini Countryman and next-gen Cooper.
Originally Posted by BRealistic
#3
As long as they dont make their classic RWD cars into FWD in the future then I have no problem with it. (see also Grand Prix, Nova, Challenger, Impala, Monte Carlo, and so forth)
#4
Quote, originally posted by Turbiodiesel! » Before anybody starts screaming about heritage and the wonderfulness of AWD....don't. This is gonna be a few entry-level small cars for Europe and China, probably electric, and we won't see them. They barely brought us the 1-series. If we do see one, it'll probably be an electric version. To the extent that we see the platform at all, it'll be the Mini Countryman and next-gen Cooper. This is a good point. Brand dilution is all relative to each market. Heck, most $33k "base" 328i drivers probably don't know that their car is available with a 4-cylinder and cloth seats across the pond. And they don't care.
It won't really affect us over here, but on a global scale will help BMW remain independent.
#5
Quote, originally posted by Sagaris » As long as they dont make their classic RWD cars into FWD in the future then I have no problem with it. (see also Grand Prix, Nova, Challenger, Impala, Monte Carlo, and so forth) Those are all family cars with performance variants, with the possible exception of the Challenger which has never been FWD anyway.
#6
Damn, next thing you know Porsche will be making SUV's. That would undoubtedly kill that brand.
#7
oops, I meant Charger, not ChallengerI always see it as
Ch(insert some leters)ger
#8
Quote, originally posted by lolaccountislocked2 »
Don't care anymore.
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#10
I was BMW fan up until 2004 and now that I can afford one I drive MB.Their design does not stop to redefine ugliness, their quality slips in pursuit of affordability, now FWD; reminds me of Cadillac. May be in 50 years I’ll consider buying one again.
#11
well, they are already ugly, why not go full tilt?
What I do for a living? This is a small part of it www.lehmanvolvo.blogspot.com
#12
BMW used to have 4 cylinder engines in a lot of their cars and than it was decided that a 4 cylinder was much too small for a "status" car. 320i and 2002 anyone?Big deal so if they build front wheel drive cars. The Mini handles great so I am not sure what the big deal is.
#13
Quote, originally posted by tincanman99 » BMW used to have 4 cylinder engines in a lot of their cars and than it was decided that a 4 cylinder was much too small for a "status" car. 320i and 2002 anyone? Big deal so if they build front wheel drive cars. The Mini handles great so I am not sure what the big deal is.
Funny, that I can name bunch of brands that are trying to go up market and only one that goes in opposite direction.
Modified by CTPAHHbIN at 8:16 AM 3-18-2010
#14
Quote, originally posted by CTPAHHbIN » Funny, that I can name bunch of brands that trying to go up market and only one that goes in opposite direction.
Besides Audi, with its frankly embarrassing little A1, Mercedes, with their tiny, cheap A-class, Jaguar with its laughably misaimed X-Type.....
And the A-class didn't stop you from aspiring to the MB, did it? Didn't think so.
Modified by Turbiodiesel! at 8:19 AM 3-18-2010
#15
Quote, originally posted by Turbiodiesel! » Besides Audi, with its execrable little A1, Mercedes, with their tiny, cheap A-class, Jaguar with its laughably misaimed X-Type.....
More like Audi with VW, Mercedes with Smart and Jaguar, well... Jaguar learns new language.Non of these brands went to economy car segment to build Chevy Cavalier
Modified by CTPAHHbIN at 8:21 AM 3-18-2010
#16
Quote, originally posted by Turbiodiesel! »
And the A-class didn't stop you from aspiring to the MB, did it? Didn't think so.
Modified by Turbiodiesel! at 8:19 AM 3-18-2010It looks better than all BMWs.
#17
Quote, originally posted by CTPAHHbIN » It looks better than all BMWs.
I happen to think it looks like a rebadged Honda Fit. BMWs aren't that bad looking, either - but whatever makes you feel better about your lateral move.
Quote, originally posted by CTPAHHbIN »
More like Audi with VW, Mercedes with Smart and Jaguar, well... Jaguar learns new language.Sorry, no. In addition to their explicitly cheap, downmarket companion brands, both Audi and Mercedes are producing cheap, FWD, B-segment hatchbacks as part of their regular brand model lines. Yes, VW, Smart, and Mini exist - but it is incontrovertible fact that the A-class, A1, and upcoming FWD BMWs all exist.
If the A-class didn't stop you from buying your C-class, then whatever FWD vehicles BMW produces shouldn't affect your perception of BMW.
Every mass-market luxury brand on Earth is producing FWD hatchbacks that are more appropriate for their downmarket brands. BMW is joining them.
Modified by Turbiodiesel! at 8:27 AM 3-18-2010
#18
Quote, originally posted by Turbiodiesel! » Sorry, no. In addition to their explicitly cheapass brands, both Audi and Mercedes are producing cheap, FWD, B-segment hatchbacks as part of their brand model lines. If the A-class didn't stop you from buying your C-class, then whatever FWD vehicles BMW produces shouldn't affect your perception of BMW.
Every mass-market luxury brand on Earth is producing FWD hatchbacks that are more appropriate for their downmarket brands. BMW is joining them.
Did you miss the part that I don't care? BMW stopped me from buying one long before that.
#19
Quote, originally posted by Turbiodiesel! »
Every mass-market luxury brand on Earth is producing FWD hatchbacks that are more appropriate for their downmarket brands....Modified by Turbiodiesel! at 8:27 AM 3-18-2010
But only one claims to be ultimate driving machine.
#20
Mercedes has the A and B along with the C180... Those are completely crappy cars that are sold to people who can't afford a higher end model but still want a Mercedes.
VB is getting better...
#21
Well, clearly you care about it on some level - you are posting in this thread, and singling out BMW for doing what your new favorite brand has been doing for years.You posted that every brand is going upmarket but BMW, if you recall. You said that, do you agree? And I posted that Audi and MB are doing the exact same thing BMW is, and questioned why you're singling BMW out for going "downmarket" with FWD. Then you got defensive.
Is it clear why I think you're being a bit of a hypocrite here? You are holding MB and BMW to two different standards, and saying that your least favorite one is going downmarket for doing what your favorite one has been doing for 10 years.
Quote, originally posted by CTPAHHbIN »
But only one claims to be ultimate driving machine.Which fits in well with producing what's generally regarded as the best driving B-segment hatch around, the Mini. Do you really want to tell me that a BMW on the same platform is going to handle worse?
Modified by Turbiodiesel! at 8:41 AM 3-18-2010
#22
Quote, originally posted by CTPAHHbIN »
But only one claims to be ultimate driving machine.Then why aren't you up in arms about AWD BMWs? They're decidedly less ultimate than RWD ones.
Also, if it's the best handling and most lively FWD on the market, I would say that makes it ultimate. Where's the "truth in engineering" in a Q7? Big-ass SUV + Big engine + Giant grille + LED DRLs. Wow, I'm liek totally blown away.
PSN: PhilipGTI
#23
Quote, originally posted by CTPAHHbIN » Did you miss the part that I don't care? BMW stopped me from buying one long before that.
You stated BMW was the only brand "going downmarket," you are corrected with examples of BMW's competition going downmarket, and your response is that you "don't care."
I don't get it...
#24
Engineering not equal design, at least IMPO.
Quote, originally posted by Fritz27 » Then why aren't you up in arms about AWD BMWs? They're decidedly less ultimate than RWD ones.
Also, if it's the best handling and most lively FWD on the market, I would say that makes it ultimate. Where's the "truth in engineering" in a Q7? Big-ass SUV + Big engine + Giant grille + LED DRLs. Wow, I'm liek totally blown away.
As for AWD that makes sence, FWD in BMW doesn't.
#25
Makes perfect sense. Have you not been following the trend towards brands having to get inventive to meet CO2 emissions targets and fuel economy mandates?Like I said - FWD cars can handle wonderfully. BMW's will, no question - they're starting with an excellent platform.
#26
Quote, originally posted by MikeNoGo » You stated BMW was the only brand "going downmarket," you are corrected with examples of BMW's competition going downmarket, and your response is that you "don't care."
I don't get it...
Read comprehension > you. It was pointed out that A class did not stop me from buying MB.BMW has 1 series that in the same place as As. Make it FWD and get it over with.
#27
Quote, originally posted by Turbiodiesel! » Makes perfect sense. Have you not been following the trend towards brands having to get inventive to meet CO2 emissions targets and fuel economy mandates? Like I said - FWD cars can handle wonderfully. BMW's will, no question - they're starting with an excellent platform.
For the past 40 years they have been fighting the trend, what changed now? Good luck to compete against Audi in their sandbox.
#28
You know, you still haven't explained why you hold Mercedes to a different standard than BMW. If the A-class didn't bother you when you bought your C-class, why are you ragging on BMW for "going downmarket" for doing the same thing, but ten years after MB sold out?
Quote, originally posted by CTPAHHbIN » For the past 40 years they have been fighting the trend, what changed now? Good luck to compete against Audi in their sandbox.
What changed now is that the entire European Union is aggressively cutting CO2 emissions and mandating huge fuel economy increases. Even if you're not great with history, you'll recognize that that hasn't been happening for the past 40 years.
Also, it's hardly Audi's sandbox. It's BMW's - with the Mini. Mini established the market. BMW is just adding another model to the fray. Audi's the one with worries.
Modified by Turbiodiesel! at 8:48 AM 3-18-2010
#29
BMW has been following VW around like a little puppy for years.
#30
Quote, originally posted by Turbiodiesel! » You know, you still haven't explained why you hold Mercedes to a different standard than BMW.
MB always being there. Entire EU taxi park is/was MB. BMW was holding the niche of ultimate driving machine. They were pushing the envelope with small performance cars and forced MB, (much bigger company) to recruit Brits for help with engine design. Now it is just another car manufacturer with a ridiculously ugly line up caught up in bigger, cheaper, gray mass friendlier race.
Modified by CTPAHHbIN at 8:52 AM 3-18-2010
#31
Quote, originally posted by Turbiodiesel! » Before anybody starts screaming about heritage and the wonderfulness of AWD....don't. This is gonna be a few entry-level small cars for Europe and China, probably electric, and we won't see them. They barely brought us the 1-series. If we do see one, it'll probably be an electric version. To the extent that we see the platform at all, it'll be the Mini Countryman and next-gen Cooper. Excuse me, but did you just tell me not to rage over the possible "dilution of purity" of a marque because of cars I can't buy?
You must be new here
#32
Quote, originally posted by Turbiodiesel! » ....What changed now is that the entire European Union is aggressively cutting CO2 emissions and mandating huge fuel economy increases. ....
Modified by Turbiodiesel! at 8:48 AM 3-18-2010Really? Did you check EPA VS EUROIII? Does not stop them from passing EPA with RWD
Modified by CTPAHHbIN at 9:02 AM 3-18-2010
#33
Quote, originally posted by CTPAHHbIN »
Read comprehension > you. It was pointed out that A class did not stop me from buying MB.BMW has 1 series that in the same place as As. Make it FWD and get it over with.
Apparently effective written communication is greater than you...
So you're okay with BMW making the 1-series fwd to compete with the A3 and B-Class, but not with them making a "downmarket" 0-series or Isetta?
#34
Quote, originally posted by Sledge » Excuse me, but did you just tell me not to rage over the possible "dilution of purity" of a marque because of cars I can't buy?
You must be new here
That is not it. It is just a direction the brand is going in the past 7 years. It doesn't seem to get any better, just worse.
#35
Quote, originally posted by MikeNoGo » Apparently effective written communication is greater than you...
So you're okay with BMW making the 1-series fwd to compete with the A3 and B-Class, but not with them making a "downmarket" 0-series or Isetta?
Just go away, you don't make any sense and have 0 sarcasm meter.
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