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    VWVortex


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    Thread: 1.5L / 1.6L NA Diesel to Turbo Diesel Build Questions

    1. 04-08-2010 12:32 PM #1
      I got my mint 1982 Rabbit out of storage after almost 2 years and have found that it's time for a motor rebuild/new motor. I've driven it for about a week now and found oil pouring out of the exhaust very bad (I'm getting about 1 quart every 50-100 miles of oil). Car still runs great but is consuming a large amount of oil (which it didn't do when I put it in storage 2 years ago). I've had good success adding a turbo to a 1.6NA before and am looking to build the engine.
      I'm thinking about building an engine based on an article I found several years back (all from memory...I can't find the article). Please chime in and give me any information about this because I'm probably going to be updating this post as I build the motor if it looks feasible. I may end up canning the idea in the end and just putting a 1.6 turbo diesel in anyway, but we'll see.
      I'm thinking about combining my 1.6L with a 1.5L that I have laying around and building the motor like this....1.6L block, 1.5L crank, 1.5L rods, 1.5L head, 1.6L pistons (I'll probably order TD pistons) and adding a T3 turbo and custom building an Injector Pump. From what I read about this years ago, this makes a very fast revving engine (great for a Rabbit). The only down side I've heard about is that these engines are hard to start but that shouldn't be an issue because this is a summer car only. Any thoughts/suggestions?

    2. Member
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      04-08-2010 12:39 PM #2
      if your gonna build a 1.5/6 then you have to use the 1.5 pistons and notch them. they are not the same size wrist pin or compression height as 1.5 pistons. it wont have enough compression to run if you get the 1.6 pistons on the 1.5 rods. as long as you use a 1.5 bottom end, 1.6 block, and 1.6 head, you should be good to go tho. it shouldnt be too hard to start. but if you added a 1.9 head, it will be real hard to start when cold. just make sure you find a turbo block, thats the only way its really worth building one of these.

      im running a full 1.5 turbo engine. built it myself. has a VNT off a 01 ALH on it. and a gasser intake mani from a digi 2 jetta. with a 1.6 turbo pump and injectors. it hauls @ss..

      have any questions, im sure i can help out.


    3. 04-08-2010 12:49 PM #3
      Are you running a 1.5 or 1.6 head on your 1.5? I assume you added oil squirters?
      So you're saying it's not a good idea to use the 1.6L NA block (I was hoping to use it because I have the spare parts laying around that way and I don't want to disassemble one of my good TD engines.

    4. Member
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      04-08-2010 01:24 PM #4
      i have a full 1.5 L diesel. just like it rolled off the factory floor from VW. 1.5 block, 1.5 head, 1.5 fiber head gasket even. no oil squirters. but i have a VNT turbo, so i dont really get that high of EGTs, and EGTs are what kill the engine.

      i guess you could use a 12mm n/a block if you really wanted. but if i were going to build a 1.5/6 i would use a turbo block just because i know i would be boosting the holy hell out of it is all. and i know the oil squirters will come in handy when im feeding it 40 psi. turbo blocks are also tougher and made from a different alloy.

      why not just run one of your TD engines if you have a good one? a 1.6 will do the same thing a 1.5 will. 1.5 engines tend to have a gas-like powerband when you build them to the nuts. really the only difference in feel between my 1.8 GTI and my 1.5 GTD is the fact that the 1.5 has enough torque to blow the tires off in second gear too. sometimes 3rd.

      but i have a lightened gasser flywheel also. that made a world of difference in throttle response. but i sacrificed alot of torque going that route.


    5. 04-08-2010 01:40 PM #5
      I wouldn't be feeding it 40 psi (that's nuts on a stock engine)....I've had good results feeding a stock 1.6L w/ about 8 psi before and maxing the pressure out of the pump.
      My 1.6L is an 11mm block, not a 12mm....'82 was a transition year. So you're still at 23.5 compression too or did you use a thicker head gasket?
      I have a brand new crate 1.9L that is headed for my mint '91 Jetta and a 128,xxx mile 1.6L TD that I'll probably put in either another Jetta or my Fox Coupe (I was going to go w/ a 16V but someone's working hard at talking me out of my 16V right now), so I may go TD instead.
      I figured if I could feed it 20-25lbs of boost, add a turbo pump, large intercooler, either GTD or Mercedes Injector Nozzles and build the quicker revving 1.5L, I would have a nice combination for a Rabbit.
      Off the wall question....will a TDI head bolt onto a 11mm 1.6 block? I can build an MTDI pump (I build pumps) and could probably have better results yet?....just a thought.

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      04-08-2010 01:54 PM #6
      sure, tdi heads will bolt right on, but thats it. it will never run or do anything. IDI pistons dont work with TDI heads. the 2 different injection systems are too different to work. the only way you get to build an Mtdi, is to take a WHOLE TDI ENGINE and build a mechanical pump and bolt on that. you dont mix and match internal TDI and IDI parts.

      as for your 11mm 1.6, its up to you. if you do it, buy head studs. thats the general consensus on the other diesel forums. 11mm blocks NEED head studs if you are going anything over stock boost.

      yes, im still running 23.5 comp on my 1.5, 5 hole head gasket, with 2 bar boost. 47:1 compression on boost anyone? and even stock injectors in a VW are not a restriction. merc injectors are not designed for our pre cups, i personally wouldnt run them. the mercedes guys run AAZ injectors in their performance diesels FWIW.

      why is someone trying to get you to NOT put a 16v in your fox? that would be SWEET.

      i had alot more than 8 psi boost with stock fueling too. i could get over 25 on a stock n/a pump with the fuel screw turned up.

      what turbo do you plan on using to make 25 psi? dont use something too small, cause a Ko3 or something little like that will be quick spooling, but will be making LOTS of heat at those boost levels. you pretty much need an intercooler for 20+ psi usually.


    7. 04-08-2010 02:11 PM #7
      I didn't think about the TDI pistons being different....good point.

      I can't believe yours is holding together under that kind of boost, but it goes to show these motors have lots more potential than factory.

      A guy is buying a Jetta Coupe off me on payments (he's paid 1/2 the shell off right now) but is wanting to buy a motor separately. The custom 2.0L ABA turbo motor was too much for him, so he wants the car tamed down a little. Anyway, long story short, he's trying to purchase the 2.0L 16V off me and that would leave me looking for something else for my Fox Coupe.

      I'm not a turbo expert (and haven't done much research yet) but was thinking along the lines of what I'm running on the 2.0ABA. It's a T3 Super 60 turbo and should be plenty big enough to get that kind of boost. Heat may be the problem though. I was going to type the data into a dyno program that I have and see what leads to a good combination. I may end up using a turbo like you are if heat will be an issue. Suggestions?

      I figured an intercooler was a must have for this.


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      04-09-2010 02:48 PM #8
      so they are trying to buy the intermediate shaft and crank sprocket, head and a few other things off the 2.0 16v. and take and bolt it all on the ABA for a boost hungry hybrid? good engine to build, got most of one in my bedroom, waiting for my jetta.

      and the only bad thing about running a turbo like mine, is finding a reasonably priced VNT may be next to impossible. the guy i got mine from wanted 200 bucks, and the turbo didnt even work.

      people always make such a big deal out of using bigger radiators, oil coolers, oil squirters, and all the other fun TD engine pieces. guess what? i got none of that. stock rabbit non-ac radiator, no oil cooler (ran hotter with it hooked up), no oil squirters, no nothing.. and ive never burnt my engine down. never even really gets warm, unless i forget to hit the fan switch and im stopped. but it still takes a really long time to heat up. if you have a good cooling system, it will pretty much take care of the engine by its self. also an intercooler is pretty important if you want more than stock boost. and what turbo are you gonna use? the super 60? might be a little large and laggy for a daily driver. would make tons of boost tho.


    9. 04-10-2010 09:17 AM #9
      I have several turbos that I can get my hands on at a reasonable price. Here's a list of ones available right this second to me....
      1) Turbo rebuilt by KKK....the guy thinks it's a K03
      2) New turbo for 1Z and AHU engines
      3) New VNT15 Turbo
      4) A larger T3 Turbo w/ externally adjustable wastegate than the factory T3
      5) Of course my T3 Super 60
      6) I have a factory T3 off a 1.6L TD
      7) A larger than factory K04 Turbo
      8) A VNT turbo for European AFN TDI engines
      9) A factory turbo for a BEW engine
      10) A factory rebuilt 03-05 Passat BFW turbo
      11) A European spec 04-07 Golf V TDI, 03-07 Tourag TDI, 05-07 Passat TDI (BKC, BLS, BXE), 06-07 Jetta TDI, 04-07 Audi A3 TDI, 04-07 Seat TDI, and 04-07 Scoda Octavia.
      12) Factory turbo for a 2.0 L Sunbird (I dont' know the model....my brother has it right now)

      Of course there's always T4 turbos too, but I think that'll be a little large. Any of the above are options available to me. Any suggestions....you seem like more of a turbo expert than I am. I just know that you need it to spool quickly and develop good boost.


    10. Member
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      04-10-2010 11:57 AM #10
      if i were you, and the VNT 15 is in good shape, use that. cause then you can use the gasser intake, and its alot better for boost. it doesnt bias the 2 middle cyls.

      i would avoid the ko3
      either use the VNT, or the stock T3. the t3 will be laggy, but will work good.


    11. 04-10-2010 12:22 PM #11
      Thanks a lot. I will certainly look into this option.

    12. 02-27-2012 05:46 PM #12
      Can i use a newly rebuilt 1.5 injection pump on an early 1.6 turbo (stock) and get satisfactory performance? Any hints to make it work? thanks

    13. Member
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      02-27-2012 08:48 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by J Ross View Post
      Can i use a newly rebuilt 1.5 injection pump on an early 1.6 turbo (stock) and get satisfactory performance? Any hints to make it work? thanks
      its going to be smokey off boost..

      or else it isnt gonna have much power if its not smokey.

      it will work, but a real TD pump will work better..

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